claiming uk pension here or uk

[FiftyTwo]

Rather than start a new thread, perhaps I can ask my question here.

I left the UK in 2002 to live in Thailand. Prior to that date, I worked in the UK in a variety of employed and self-employed or contractor roles. My NI contributions were therefore 'all over the place', with some contributions from me/my employer, some from my own ltd contractor company and probably some not made at all!

I certainly have not paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension, and I have been considering whether or not I should (or am eligible) to pay voluntary 'top-up' NI contributions.

My concern is that if I do so, I may receive nothing in return when I reach retirement age (I'm 54 years old now), because I suspect that the government kitty will be empty from paying out to the EU economic migrants thathave invaded the UK...

What's your opinion? Is it worth the risk to contribute voluntarily into the NI system, (to possibly receive nothing in return or at best, a frozen, non-index-linked pension for my retirement in Thailand?

Simon

It would depend how many years NI you have already paid.

At the moment you can buy the last 6 wears NI a few weeks before you retire, so maybe no rush to pay in advance.

If you are working abroad Class 2 contributions are about 150UKP/year, so not a big loss if you get little back.

Edited December 14, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[ggold]

Best to maintain your identity in the UK as well as you can.

Many benefits to a continued UK presence, no advantage at all to being officially in Thailand.

The banks don't like it.

Financial services don't like it.

Etc.

@Elliott

Most of the benefits recipients rarely leave the UK for extended periods.

Those of us able to live overseas are usually givers, and not the takers.

While I agree 100% about keeping a UK address.! verses being officially in Thailand, There definately are advantages.

I have had no problem with my UK bank or C/C companies etc. I have been here now 6 years.

But I think it will be harder now with the new regulations to con the DWP that your in the UK when infact your in Thailand!

[sustento]

I am currently on vacation in Thailand, but intend to live here permanently from early next year.

I'm only 60, so won't receive my state pension for another 5 years.

However I have already made extensive enquiries with the DWP and the Inland Revenue.

Everyone will have different circumstances and incomes, so my advise would be to do your own checks with relevant departments to see what works best for your situation.

Next year because I'm only 60 my income will come from renting my home and private pensions.

I'll register for self assessment for tax purposes.

No tax will be automatically taken from my private pension payments or home rental.

I can claim maintenance and agents costs against my total income and hopefully should break even without having to pay any tax.

When I'm 65 I'll receive my state pension and another private pension.

I can either notify them I am living in Thailand in which case my state pension will be frozen and I'll have to pay taxes, or;

I can claim exemption from the UK and pay no taxes there.

Theoretically I should then pay taxes in Thailand, but I won't tell if you don't

If you want to keep a UK address in order to get state pension increases, then you'll also pay taxes on your income.

You either make a clean break and live in Thailand or keep looking over your shoulder.

When considering where to have your money paid, either Thai or UK banks, consider interest rates.

The Thai banks offer a far better rate than UK banks.

Offshore banking is another option, although even their rates are lower than Thai banks.

If you spend more than 181 days in the UK then you can claim the current state pension.

Every 5 years or so, I'll visit family and stay to claim the current rate.

Even when I move back to Thailand that rate will continue.

There isn't any one answer to cover everyone.

I would make some more enquiries because you are wrong on a couple of counts.

All income derived in the UK is taxable. You will have a tax allowance and the cosde will be given to your pension provider. They will deduct tax at source.

If you become non-resident any rental income should have tax deducted at source - certainly in the case of a letting agent being used. You can apply for tax not to be deducted.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-leave-uk.htm

I will stand corrected but I believe your pension increase strategy is also flawed. The increase would only apply for the duration of your stay in the UK

Form R85 from Inland Revenue.

Getting tax-free interest on savings or claiming tax back

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-free-interest.htm

"Banks and building societies usually deduct 20 per cent tax from the interest they pay on most types of savings account. But if your total taxable income is less than your tax-free Personal Allowance"

You only get tax-free interest if your total income is below the personal tax allowance. This is true whenever your income arises in the UK no matter where you live.

[MAJIC]

Rather than start a new thread, perhaps I can ask my question here.

I left the UK in 2002 to live in Thailand. Prior to that date, I worked in the UK in a variety of employed and self-employed or contractor roles. My NI contributions were therefore 'all over the place', with some contributions from me/my employer, some from my own ltd contractor company and probably some not made at all!

I certainly have not paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension, and I have been considering whether or not I should (or am eligible) to pay voluntary 'top-up' NI contributions.

My concern is that if I do so, I may receive nothing in return when I reach retirement age (I'm 54 years old now), because I suspect that the government kitty will be empty from paying out to the EU economic migrants thathave invaded the UK...

What's your opinion? Is it worth the risk to contribute voluntarily into the NI system, (to possibly receive nothing in return or at best, a frozen, non-index-linked pension for my retirement in Thailand?

Simon

Under current legislation,you need to have 30 years NI Contributions to get a full Pension at 67 (currently retirement age) instead of giving up and accepting the current vogue of believing that State Pensions are doomed,why not get some expert advice from Pension Specialists. As I see it at the moment: If the system of Government UK Pensions does collapse,at the very least you will be entitled to some years of refunds of what you have already contributed to your state pension (to invest in a Private Pension Scheme) .Paying in voluntary credits to make up your NI contributions shortfalls is quite common,and contacting the DWP will explain how you will need to go about it, i'm sure it will be to your advantage!

Edited December 15, 2013 by MAJIC

[nontabury]

Rather than start a new thread, perhaps I can ask my question here.

I left the UK in 2002 to live in Thailand. Prior to that date, I worked in the UK in a variety of employed and self-employed or contractor roles. My NI contributions were therefore 'all over the place', with some contributions from me/my employer, some from my own ltd contractor company and probably some not made at all!

I certainly have not paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension, and I have been considering whether or not I should (or am eligible) to pay voluntary 'top-up' NI contributions.

My concern is that if I do so, I may receive nothing in return when I reach retirement age (I'm 54 years old now), because I suspect that the government kitty will be empty from paying out to the EU economic migrants thathave invaded the UK...

What's your opinion? Is it worth the risk to contribute voluntarily into the NI system, (to possibly receive nothing in return or at best, a frozen, non-index-linked pension for my retirement in Thailand?

Simon

Under current legislation,you need to have 30 years NI Contributions to get a full Pension at 67 (currently retirement age) instead of giving up and accepting the current vogue of believing that State Pensions are doomed,why not get some expert advice from Pension Specialists. As I see it at the moment: If the system of Government UK Pensions does collapse,at the very least you will be entitled to some years of refunds of what you have already contributed to your state pension (to invest in a Private Pension Scheme) .Paying in voluntary credits to make up your NI contributions shortfalls is quite common,and contacting the DWP will explain how you will need to go about it, i'm sure it will be to your advantage!

You say that if the Government UK pension where to collapse, you would be entitled to a refund,are you sure about that? Remember most of us thought that we would be entitled to a yearly increase to our payed for state pension.

[AyG]

As I see it at the moment: If the system of Government UK Pensions does collapse,at the very least you will be entitled to some years of refunds of what you have already contributed to your state pension (to invest in a Private Pension Scheme)

You say that if the Government UK pension where to collapse, you would be entitled to a refund,are you sure about that? Remember most of us thought that we would be entitled to a yearly increase to our payed for state pension.

1. There would be no refund. State pension (not "government pension" - a government pension is paid to ex-government employees) is not funded by NI contributions you've made in the past; it's funded by those currently working, so there's no pension pot to be disbursed. The government simply couldn't afford to buy everyone out.

2. Rather than an outright collapse, it's far more likely that any government will simply allow the value of the pension to wither. This is what the Tories are attempting with the switch last year of the indexation basis from RPI to CPI (which is consistently lower). Compound the effect over a decade or two and pensioners will be significantly poorer.

[Bernard Flint]

I am currently on vacation in Thailand, but intend to live here permanently from early next year.

I'm only 60, so won't receive my state pension for another 5 years.

However I have already made extensive enquiries with the DWP and the Inland Revenue.

Everyone will have different circumstances and incomes, so my advise would be to do your own checks with relevant departments to see what works best for your situation.

Next year because I'm only 60 my income will come from renting my home and private pensions.

I'll register for self assessment for tax purposes.

No tax will be automatically taken from my private pension payments or home rental.

I can claim maintenance and agents costs against my total income and hopefully should break even without having to pay any tax.

When I'm 65 I'll receive my state pension and another private pension.

I can either notify them I am living in Thailand in which case my state pension will be frozen and I'll have to pay taxes, or;

I can claim exemption from the UK and pay no taxes there.

Theoretically I should then pay taxes in Thailand, but I won't tell if you don't

If you want to keep a UK address in order to get state pension increases, then you'll also pay taxes on your income.

You either make a clean break and live in Thailand or keep looking over your shoulder.

When considering where to have your money paid, either Thai or UK banks, consider interest rates.

The Thai banks offer a far better rate than UK banks.

Offshore banking is another option, although even their rates are lower than Thai banks.

If you spend more than 181 days in the UK then you can claim the current state pension.

Every 5 years or so, I'll visit family and stay to claim the current rate.

Even when I move back to Thailand that rate will continue.

There isn't any one answer to cover everyone.

I would make some more enquiries because you are wrong on a couple of counts.

All income derived in the UK is taxable. You will have a tax allowance and the cosde will be given to your pension provider. They will deduct tax at source.

If you become non-resident any rental income should have tax deducted at source - certainly in the case of a letting agent being used. You can apply for tax not to be deducted.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-leave-uk.htm

I will stand corrected but I believe your pension increase strategy is also flawed. The increase would only apply for the duration of your stay in the UK

SIR

Correct on all counts

[Bernard Flint]

^{I have heard of 2 guys who were summoned to discuss their 3 months a year visits to Thailand, when they were claiming dole,and things like winter electricity payment.One is only allowed 30 days per Year holiday in a non eu country, hence both got 20,000gbp fine,which is being payed by a yearly deduction form their dole/pension money now.}

^{My question,why is it ok for uk scroungers to do this,but all hell breaks loose when an immigrant does it.}

^btw

^{Both of these guys hadnt worked for over 2 years,but had the money for their 3 months excursion to sin city,and also had their ni contributions paid for them,hence free governemnet pensions at 65}

[Bernard Flint]

^{I have heard of 2 guys who were summoned to discuss their 3 months a year visits to Thailand, when they were claiming dole,and things like winter electricity payment.One is only allowed 30 days per Year holiday in a non eu country, hence both got 20,000gbp fine,which is being payed by a yearly deduction form their dole/pension money now.}

^{My question,why is it ok for uk scroungers to do this,but all hell breaks loose when an immigrant does it.}

^btw

^{Both of these guys hadnt worked for over 20 years,but had the money for their 3 months excursion to sin city,and also had their ni contributions paid for them,hence free governemnet pensions at 65}

[Bernard Flint]

^{I have heard of 2 guys who were summoned to discuss their 3 months a year visits to Thailand, when they were claiming dole,and things like winter electricity payment.One is only allowed 30 days per Year holiday in a non eu country, hence both got 20,000gbp fine,which is being payed by a yearly deduction form their dole/pension money now.}

^{My question,why is it ok for uk scroungers to do this,but all hell breaks loose when an immigrant does it.}

^btw

[FiftyTwo]

Under current legislation,you need to have 30 years NI Contributions to get a full Pension at 67 (currently retirement age) instead of giving up and accepting the current vogue of believing that State Pensions are doomed,why not get some expert advice from Pension Specialists. As I see it at the moment: If the system of Government UK Pensions does collapse,at the very least you will be entitled to some years of refunds of what you have already contributed to your state pension (to invest in a Private Pension Scheme) .Paying in voluntary credits to make up your NI contributions shortfalls is quite common,and contacting the DWP will explain how you will need to go about it, i'm sure it will be to your advantage!

Who are these magic pension specialists.

An IFA will tell you whatever makes him the biggest commission.

If he isn't completely UK based, he will most likely embezzle from your pension fund, given half a chance.

They have already stated an intended 35 years NI contributions and 68 years for retirement age.

So your advice is already in the "suspect" category.

Contacting the DWP may not give you any useful information, but they will certainly record your intention to live where they can freeze your state pension, and investigate you appropriately at retirement age.

[MAJIC]

As I see it at the moment: If the system of Government UK Pensions does collapse,at the very least you will be entitled to some years of refunds of what you have already contributed to your state pension (to invest in a Private Pension Scheme)

You say that if the Government UK pension where to collapse, you would be entitled to a refund,are you sure about that? Remember most of us thought that we would be entitled to a yearly increase to our payed for state pension.

1. There would be no refund. State pension (not "government pension" - a government pension is paid to ex-government employees) is not funded by NI contributions you've made in the past; it's funded by those currently working, so there's no pension pot to be disbursed. The government simply couldn't afford to buy everyone out.

2. Rather than an outright collapse, it's far more likely that any government will simply allow the value of the pension to wither. This is what the Tories are attempting with the switch last year of the indexation basis from RPI to CPI (which is consistently lower). Compound the effect over a decade or two and pensioners will be significantly poorer.

According to this overview,from the DWP.GOV NI Contributions calculate how much State Pension you are entitled to!

starting with a full 30 years NI contributions. Although I agree there is no Pension Pot as such!

https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance/overview

[MAJIC]

Rather than start a new thread, perhaps I can ask my question here.

I left the UK in 2002 to live in Thailand. Prior to that date, I worked in the UK in a variety of employed and self-employed or contractor roles. My NI contributions were therefore 'all over the place', with some contributions from me/my employer, some from my own ltd contractor company and probably some not made at all!

I certainly have not paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension, and I have been considering whether or not I should (or am eligible) to pay voluntary 'top-up' NI contributions.

My concern is that if I do so, I may receive nothing in return when I reach retirement age (I'm 54 years old now), because I suspect that the government kitty will be empty from paying out to the EU economic migrants thathave invaded the UK...

What's your opinion? Is it worth the risk to contribute voluntarily into the NI system, (to possibly receive nothing in return or at best, a frozen, non-index-linked pension for my retirement in Thailand?

Simon

Under current legislation,you need to have 30 years NI Contributions to get a full Pension at 67 (currently retirement age) instead of giving up and accepting the current vogue of believing that State Pensions are doomed,why not get some expert advice from Pension Specialists. As I see it at the moment: If the system of Government UK Pensions does collapse,at the very least you will be entitled to some years of refunds of what you have already contributed to your state pension (to invest in a Private Pension Scheme) .Paying in voluntary credits to make up your NI contributions shortfalls is quite common,and contacting the DWP will explain how you will need to go about it, i'm sure it will be to your advantage!

You say that if the Government UK pension where to collapse, you would be entitled to a refund,are you sure about that? Remember most of us thought that we would be entitled to a yearly increase to our payed for state pension.

a Good point! and one injustice I have argued about many times on the UK Pension Topic.

Of course no Government are Benevolent with our money. But the difference is,if 20 Million plus workers are denied recompense in the event of winding up the present pension scheme,then whichever Party made that move,would be hardly likely to get back into power for the foreseeable future.

A few thousand Ex pats in Thailand will not affect the result of a General Election one jot though!

[sustento]

Rather than start a new thread, perhaps I can ask my question here.

I left the UK in 2002 to live in Thailand. Prior to that date, I worked in the UK in a variety of employed and self-employed or contractor roles. My NI contributions were therefore 'all over the place', with some contributions from me/my employer, some from my own ltd contractor company and probably some not made at all!

I certainly have not paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension, and I have been considering whether or not I should (or am eligible) to pay voluntary 'top-up' NI contributions.

My concern is that if I do so, I may receive nothing in return when I reach retirement age (I'm 54 years old now), because I suspect that the government kitty will be empty from paying out to the EU economic migrants thathave invaded the UK...

What's your opinion? Is it worth the risk to contribute voluntarily into the NI system, (to possibly receive nothing in return or at best, a frozen, non-index-linked pension for my retirement in Thailand?

Simon

Under current legislation,you need to have 30 years NI Contributions to get a full Pension at 67 (currently retirement age)

Retirement at the age of 67 is only for those born in 1970 or after. The current retirement age for those born before 1954 (like me ) is still 65.

You can calculate the retirement age for any given year here:

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-state-pension/y

Edited December 15, 2013 by sustento

[Keesters]

Only three weeks ago, I recieved a letter prom the UK Pensions office informing me that "to prevent fraud" from April next year UK Pensions cannot be paid into an account outside UK, EU and commonwealth Countries. This will apply to new applicants only and existing foreign payments are not affected.

So what happens if you don't have a UK, EU or commonwealth account. Do they keep the money you're entitled to?

Any advice on opening a UK account without actually visiting there appreciated.

I'm still confused

Can any one please confirm this , and what happens if some one does not have a UK / EU bank account , ive not managed to find any direct links to this April 2014 fraud prevention directive that directly relates to a UK pension not being paid into a bank out side the Uk / EU .

Checked today, 18th Dec 2013. https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/payment states:

Your State Pension can be paid into:

• a bank in the country you’re living in
• a bank or building society in the UK

You can use:

• an account in your name
• a joint account
• someone else’s account - if you have their permission and keep to the terms and conditions of the account

You’ll need an international bank account number (IBAN) and bank identification code (BIC) for payments for some countries outside the UK. Check with your bank if you need them.

and that page was Last updated: 4 December 2013. Seems like Thailand banks are still OK.

[lounger]

Hi Guys,

I have opted to have my state pension paid quarterly into Krungsri bank here in Thailand. I was told the first payment will be the first 9 weeks due which works out to be 8th Feb 2014. So far there is no sign of it arriving. Does anyone have any idea how long it takes to transfer the money? ie your pension date is apparently the weekend following your 65th birthday. so how many days elapse after your birthday before your pension payment arrives here in Thailand

Thanks

Edited February 14, 2014 by lounger

[maprao]

Rather than start a new thread, perhaps I can ask my question here.

I left the UK in 2002 to live in Thailand. Prior to that date, I worked in the UK in a variety of employed and self-employed or contractor roles. My NI contributions were therefore 'all over the place', with some contributions from me/my employer, some from my own ltd contractor company and probably some not made at all!

I certainly have not paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension, and I have been considering whether or not I should (or am eligible) to pay voluntary 'top-up' NI contributions.

My concern is that if I do so, I may receive nothing in return when I reach retirement age (I'm 54 years old now), because I suspect that the government kitty will be empty from paying out to the EU economic migrants thathave invaded the UK...

What's your opinion? Is it worth the risk to contribute voluntarily into the NI system, (to possibly receive nothing in return or at best, a frozen, non-index-linked pension for my retirement in Thailand?

Simon

Write to them they will send you a full statement contributions and gaps. If you have more the 30 years then do not pay any voluntary contributions. If less than 30 then pay the gaps. You can backpay the last 7 years if need be.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[transam]

Rather than start a new thread, perhaps I can ask my question here.

I left the UK in 2002 to live in Thailand. Prior to that date, I worked in the UK in a variety of employed and self-employed or contractor roles. My NI contributions were therefore 'all over the place', with some contributions from me/my employer, some from my own ltd contractor company and probably some not made at all!

I certainly have not paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension, and I have been considering whether or not I should (or am eligible) to pay voluntary 'top-up' NI contributions.

My concern is that if I do so, I may receive nothing in return when I reach retirement age (I'm 54 years old now), because I suspect that the government kitty will be empty from paying out to the EU economic migrants thathave invaded the UK...

What's your opinion? Is it worth the risk to contribute voluntarily into the NI system, (to possibly receive nothing in return or at best, a frozen, non-index-linked pension for my retirement in Thailand?

Simon

Under current legislation,you need to have 30 years NI Contributions to get a full Pension at 67 (currently retirement age)

Retirement at the age of 67 is only for those born in 1970 or after. The current retirement age for those born before 1954 (like me ) is still 65.

You can calculate the retirement age for any given year here:

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-state-pension/y

Thought it changed for those born after 1950. Did for my sister born 1951. Perhaps different for guys.

[FiftyTwo]

Rather than start a new thread, perhaps I can ask my question here.

I left the UK in 2002 to live in Thailand. Prior to that date, I worked in the UK in a variety of employed and self-employed or contractor roles. My NI contributions were therefore 'all over the place', with some contributions from me/my employer, some from my own ltd contractor company and probably some not made at all!

I certainly have not paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension, and I have been considering whether or not I should (or am eligible) to pay voluntary 'top-up' NI contributions.

My concern is that if I do so, I may receive nothing in return when I reach retirement age (I'm 54 years old now), because I suspect that the government kitty will be empty from paying out to the EU economic migrants thathave invaded the UK...

What's your opinion? Is it worth the risk to contribute voluntarily into the NI system, (to possibly receive nothing in return or at best, a frozen, non-index-linked pension for my retirement in Thailand?

Simon

It is unlikely the current pension system will be stopped before you reach retirement age.

More likely you will die before retirement age.

You can buy 6 years in back NIs, class 2 @ 140GBP/year, class 3 @ 600GBP/year.

Cheapest retirement bet you could ever make.

Just do it, pay last 6, and keep paying until you reach 35 years of contributions.

Each year you pay, buys you 4gbp/week income, compare it to an annuity,

NI contribution, 600GBP invested, gives a return of 200GBP/year

Annuity, 1000GBP invested, gives a return of 40GBP/year

(this comparison is comparing fixed incomes, not index linked)

Edited February 15, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[evadgib]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/540525-uk-pensions/page-142

[rayongchelsea]

Rather than start a new thread, perhaps I can ask my question here.

I left the UK in 2002 to live in Thailand. Prior to that date, I worked in the UK in a variety of employed and self-employed or contractor roles. My NI contributions were therefore 'all over the place', with some contributions from me/my employer, some from my own ltd contractor company and probably some not made at all!

I certainly have not paid enough contributions to receive a full state pension, and I have been considering whether or not I should (or am eligible) to pay voluntary 'top-up' NI contributions.

My concern is that if I do so, I may receive nothing in return when I reach retirement age (I'm 54 years old now), because I suspect that the government kitty will be empty from paying out to the EU economic migrants thathave invaded the UK...

What's your opinion? Is it worth the risk to contribute voluntarily into the NI system, (to possibly receive nothing in return or at best, a frozen, non-index-linked pension for my retirement in Thailand?

Simon

It is unlikely the current pension system will be stopped before you reach retirement age.

More likely you will die before retirement age.

You can buy 6 years in back NIs, class 2 @ 140GBP/year, class 3 @ 600GBP/year.

Cheapest retirement bet you could ever make.

Just do it, pay last 6, and keep paying until you reach 35 years of contributions.

Each year you pay, buys you 4gbp/week income, compare it to an annuity,

NI contribution, 600GBP invested, gives a return of 200GBP/year

Annuity, 1000GBP invested, gives a return of 40GBP/year

(this comparison is comparing fixed incomes, not index linked)

Completely agree.. A no brainier..best annuity out there..especially if in your mid 50's onwards.

Just get a current estimation of your expected pension and as you say pay backwards and contribute going forwards.

It is 30 years based on the letter I received but that maybe because of age cut-off.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ebenezer]

Reading an information document from the DWP about pensions (dated April 2014) I noted something that may be of interest to others who are entitled to a UK pension. If you do not take the pension when you are entitled to it (currently 65 for men) the pension with be increased by 10.4% a year. It explicitly states in the document that the uplift will also apply to people in countries who do not normally get the index linking. In 2016 the system will change again and it will not be so generous but unless you have a shorter than average life expectancy this is a good deal, especially for retirees in Thailand.

[CharlieH]

As there is a "pinned" thread on this topic please continue here

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/540525-uk-pensions/


This one is CLOSED.