A new reason to jail Thais for thought crime?

[Baerboxer]

It's somewhat ironic that in the last decade or so in Thailand the most personal freedom, fairest application of justice, and most "democratic" period was undoubtably under the Surayud govt which was a military dictatorship by definition. It's worth enjoying the last days of the internet and media that is still allowed to write critical arguments as sure as eggs are eggs they will both be imminently outlawed. The Thaksin dictatorship cannot survive if it's deeds are known to the public. Oh Isaanites, what have you done?

That's the problem. Even when their deeds are known and commented on, they still get away with it and survive. Just look at how long they've ignored the Ombudsman's questions on the illegally issued passport, how they now openly refer to Thaksin as the boss, meet with him and admit he's in constant contact and picks the cabinet. And yet, they survive and in their minds grow stronger, tighten control and push more.

They keep pushing and nothing happens. That's why they're confident to push all the laws and charter amendments and loans they want through now. The police are again showing their loyalty and willingness to mass in support. Army seems "neutered".

A dictatorship is just down the road, and within the grasp.

[waza]

I would post what I think about this but it might be construed as a crime. Or maybe I should just divert the topic by blaming Abihist.

PS: Tida wont say anything while she reliant on government handouts to pay the running costs of the red movement.

Edited October 16, 2013 by waza

[apetley]

Where are the strong PTP and Thaksin supporters, now?

I would like to hear the explanation why this is good for Thailand and Democracy.

Well clearly it's not. But this is basically what the yellow shirts and democrats wanted as well. 

A link to their proposed legislation would be an interesting read.

[klauskunkel]

I'm not defending PTP policies. Just stating that if the opposing party was in control today it would also suppress freedoms and introduce stricter laws exactly like this. Voting for the others only gets you more of the same.

PTP and Democrats only want power. Despite their names there is no political ideology behind these parties

I am no Democrat supporter, but the Democrats didn't make any laws like this. As well that big Internet control/censor thing was done by Thaksin and only the military dictators reduced it.

So Democrats didn't do something like that in the past. If they would do the same or not, no one can tell. I never heard them to agree but Abhisit was always for free press and free speech.

I am not saying that you are wrong. You might be right and they would do the same. But they didn't so I can't blame them. PTP did so they are to blame.

Adding to this discussion: It is also the job of the opposition party to oppose these kind of bills and to raise a public stink about it...

[siampolee]

BANGKOK: -- THE AUTOCRATIC and patronising nature of the Yingluck Shinawatra administration surfaced for all to see last Tuesday (October 8) when the Cabinet approved in principle draft-legislation for the protection of so-called "intangible cultural heritage".

Besides the usual budget related matters, where provinces will be able to seek a subsidy from the Cultural Promotion Department for the protection of their intangible cultural heritage, the proposed bill's Article 40 seeks to punish people whose words or actions using intangible heritage are found "to offend the monarchy, religion, national security, as well as public order and morality".

Violators could face up to two years in prison and/or a fine up to Bt50,000.

There's also a catch in that those who exercise the law, if passed, also have the power to interpret what may constitute the intangible cultural heritage that needs to be protected.

This is a zany bill for a country claiming to be a democracy and while this government has refused to touch on the controversial and draconian lese majeste law, it's now seeking to create more reasons for jailing people for thought crime.

Indeed we see yet again the delights of Red Democracy.

One wonder whether Chairman Mao along maybe with Joe Stalin and Adolf Hitler have jointly ghost written the handbook for the P.T.P. on how to totally destroy any opposition to their aims, the destruction of democracy and the enslavement of the people?

Just think that Judas was reputed to have received 30 pieces of silver for betraying his boss.

What a bargain Thaksin , his family and their brown nosing acolytes got. For an outlay of 50 baht a vote they bought the Thai nation.

Now perhaps those who can clearly see exactly what direction the political railway is going and those who have come of late to see the same view will spread the word and enlighten those who are in need of guidance and direction to climb aboard the democracy train and at the next election and remove this cancerous blight we currently suffer from called a government from the seat of power and consign it to the rubbish tip of defeated dictators

That's of course if Thaksin his family and their brown nosing acolytes do not disband the electoral process altogether in their current single minded campaign to enslave this country along with its peoples to Thaksin, his family and their brown nosing acolytes.

i wonder how long it will be before we start to fear the knock on the door in the dead of the night under this current regime?

The government seems to not understand that forcing people to respect the culture of the monarchy will inevitably result in resentment, if not resistance, as already seen in the vibrant anti-lese-majeste-law movement.

Respect and appreciation, be it for religion, culture or monarchy cannot be forced. They must be earned. Forcing respect on something or someone is not respect but coercion.

The quote above is indeed correct.

Let us look at the first line.

We can see clearly that the forcing of the Thai people to conform to thaksinspeak may well be the spark that lights the fuse of change in Thai politics. Will this be a democratic transition via the ballot box or a less palatable less democratic process of a military coup or the worst scenario of all violent civil disorder ? Only time will tell.

The second line highlights the growing feeling of a lack of respect for this current administration who may well have earned respect in their early days of their tenure as a government , however that respect is indeed being flushed away down the sewers of corruption, nepotism and personal gains that this government have pursued and still are blindly in pursuance of at the behest of their puppet master.

The coercion factor is the only way that dictatorships can survive hence the introduction and proposal of this draconian bill to further throttle democracy and in the puppet governments eyes consolidate their hold on power with Thaksin as the grand puppet master.

Perhaps Thaksin and his puppets would do well to remember that ''Every action has a consequence.''

Sadly those consequences may well tear this country apart all because of one persons insatiable lust for power, revenge and money and his manipulation of his self confessed clones and puppets.

[bigbamboo]

It's no surprise that 'Thai culture' isn't defined here.

If you ask a group of Thai students why tourists love to visit Thailand they will quickly tell you it's Thai culture (seriously!). If you then ask them to define what they think Thai actually is you will get a sea of blank faces.

[AryanicAristocrat]

And waht do the eductaed Thais, Academics and the Masses doing about this? Keeping quiet? Really Stupid if they do not stop this and revolt. And for all the expats and foreigners here, they should send protest letters to their emabassies and political reps back home to protest against these if not stop companies and Government orgamnisations from back home to invest in Thailand. Better still stop all citizens from tarvelling thailand and boycott Thai products.

[dighambara]

Throughout history, every government which sought to freeze it's culture, language, society, etc. failed miserably. Usually degenerating into barbarism.

[MaxLee]

The point is, like I said many times before, no human being on earth, no matter where he comes from, is stupid, it's just that the people are being propaganda-brainwashed to believe the top-to-bottom threat from their ignorant-zero-ethics-superiors.

[Local Drunk]

Think! This law could be extrapolated to punish any offense in Thailand. Lesse Majest is specific although it is abused quite frequently. A law like this essentially puts the government above the monarchy, religion and the people.

[mca]

Its getting worse......

http://notthenation.com/2013/04/army-chief-warns-against-conversation/

I'll bait my hook......

[keith101]

Well that kind of law could just about cover anything,they can

bend the law to say what ever they want,dangerous times in

Thailand,where you could get 2 years and a fine just for thinking.

and at a time when the local despot regime, Burma is freeing its

political prisoners.

Regards Worgeordie

hmm must be english . no such country as burma you must mean Myanmar

[Thai at Heart]

I am getting even happier by the day that I left the country.

Where was the debate about this bill? Where was the media discussion? How is this created, passed and implemented with no one noticing? This is pure government control and censorship. Pure PRC action.

[Johnnie99]

A new reason to jail Thais for thought crime?

They can think??

[Chao Lao Beach]

The first thought that popped up...

[jollyhangmon]

Well that kind of law could just about cover anything,they can

bend the law to say what ever they want,dangerous times in

Thailand,where you could get 2 years and a fine just for thinking.

and at a time when the local despot regime, Burma is freeing its

political prisoners.

Regards Worgeordie

... are these people who make such "substantiated" decisions by chance identical to those citizens of this lovely & sophisticated country who reportedly idolize Hitler & Nazi - junk ...?!

'Cause with "laws" just like the above mentioned >The Madmans Run< primarily commenced back in the days ... so basically that's what instantly comes to mind:

==> Nazis !!

[Emdog]

"While I don't like the lese majeste law, several of these cases would be also at court in Germany, USA or any other western country....." We can hardly have thought crimes against monarchy in USA, considering we don't have a monarchy, or didn't last time I looked.... closest thing we had was some wanted to outlaw burning the flag, but Supreme Court considered that as an expression of freedom of speech. So I don't know where you get these whacky ideas, but you should send them back.

As far as Thailand goes, ya gotta love everything about it. Or else, if this law gets passed....

Edited October 16, 2013 by Emdog

[butterlimbo]

comparable with don't say "brown bag" in Seattle, as it is 'racist' and you'll be fined.

Ultimately, the general public is responsible to take a stand against these outrageous regulations, otherwise they'll be passed. You only get what you fight for.

Sad part is, the uninformed general public here will not notice all the legislation passed until its already too late.

"brown bag" is racist?

Exactly...it was never even perceived as such, or ever used, according to anyone I ever talked to. Easy to see, these types of legislation are a soft way to see the reaction and effect when they implement steps to take away your freedoms.

In German speaking countries we have to change names of dishes, that exist since centuries, because now they got racist.

Some spicy versions of food called "Gypsy Schnitzel" is now racist. But strangely the "Viennese Schnitzel" (or Frankfurter sausage or German sausage or Swedish Meatballs) are not.

Because "Gypsy" is kinda a N-word. you are allowed to speak about Africa or Afro-American, but using the N-word would be seen as racist even if the N-word was used for centuries.

[Emptyset]

I'm not defending PTP policies. Just stating that if the opposing party was in control today it would also suppress freedoms and introduce stricter laws exactly like this. Voting for the others only gets you more of the same.

PTP and Democrats only want power. Despite their names there is no political ideology behind these parties

I am no Democrat supporter, but the Democrats didn't make any laws like this. As well that big Internet control/censor thing was done by Thaksin and only the military dictators reduced it.

So Democrats didn't do something like that in the past. If they would do the same or not, no one can tell. I never heard them to agree but Abhisit was always for free press and free speech.

I am not saying that you are wrong. You might be right and they would do the same. But they didn't so I can't blame them. PTP did so they are to blame.

It was the junta who introduced the Computer Crime Act. And the number of webpages blocked rose exponentially during their rule. You must've forgotten that they even blocked youtube.

On the point regards the yellows/Democrats. Yes, of course, it'd be facile to absolve them from blame for this, after all their denunciations of the government for not protecting the monarchy and undermining traditional culture. Democrat spokeswoman Mallika Boonmetrakul even called for youtube, twiter, Facebook etc to be blocked not that long ago, to protect people from the "bad web" (recall the Democrats fight "bad web" campaign). Yep, you only need to look at FB pages of anti-government protesters or yellow leaning folk - try Social Sanction on Facebook - to confirm them in their authoritarian leanings.

Ironically, it's the most 'red leaning' journalist at The Nation, Pravit, who highlights this. Or perhaps not so surprising as Pravit has been very consistent in his position and attacked all sides for anti-democratic and illiberal positions. And of course, he's right in describing this government as "autocratic and patronising" but let's not pretend that there's ever been a Thai government that doesn't fit that description.

[Emptyset]

It's somewhat ironic that in the last decade or so in Thailand the most personal freedom, fairest application of justice, and most "democratic" period was undoubtably under the Surayud govt which was a military dictatorship by definition. It's worth enjoying the last days of the internet and media that is still allowed to write critical arguments as sure as eggs are eggs they will both be imminently outlawed. The Thaksin dictatorship cannot survive if it's deeds are known to the public. Oh Isaanites, what have you done?

Yes, you were fine under the junta unless you, er, wanted to protest against them or campaign against their constitutional draft: activities that most people who talk about 'democracy' would consider a pretty basic freedom. According to many posters here, this government is fascist and on the road to full blown dictatorship yet it's not done half of what the junta did. Only someone partial could think it was some sort of model of democratic virtue and condemn this government by contrast. It was just more of the same and worse in some respects. The only good thing about them was they weren't there that long. And I'm saying this as no Thaksin fan. In fact I think the war on drugs is still the worst human rights violation in recent Thai history, at least, since the late 70s.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Emptyset

[fab4]

Just a thought - has anybody seen any report of this proposed bill in any other newspaper or media source, english or thai language? If The Nation has an exclusive on it's hands over this "cabinet decision" I wonder how it's been kept quiet since 8th October. Over a week now and nobody else has said a word? I'd have thought at the very least the "other paper" would be over this like a cheap suit.

[indyuk]

The last thing Thailand needs are Laws of sanctity for intangible thoughts and ideas.

Thailand is essentially intangible already in that for the upper middle class, the elite and royalists, everything that 'is' can become 'isn't' with an offering of cash.

That's why the great and the good of Thailand have always basked in infinite quantities of what 'is'.

Meanwhile the common people have to content themselves with 'shed loads' of what 'isn't'.

The rice pledging scheme is a good example of what 'isn't'.

[tragickingdom]

Look who is complaining..... The Nation is calling Yingluck autocratic and she was not even handed the power by the military. When will the nation stop being hypocrites and ask questions about all those people still going through the courts for Lese Majeste offenses brought by their poster boy Abhisit?

[bigbamboo]

The last thing Thailand needs are Laws of sanctity for intangible thoughts and ideas.

Thailand is essentially intangible already in that for the upper middle class, the elite and royalists, everything that 'is' can become 'isn't' with an offering of cash.

That's why the great and the good of Thailand have always basked in infinite quantities of what 'is'.

Meanwhile the common people have to content themselves with 'shed loads' of what 'isn't'.

The rice pledging scheme is a good example of what 'isn't'.

No, the rice pledging scheme is an example of 'shed loads'.

[Emptyset]

Look who is complaining..... The Nation is calling Yingluck autocratic and she was not even handed the power by the military. When will the nation stop being hypocrites and ask questions about all those people still going through the courts for Lese Majeste offenses brought by their poster boy Abhisit?

I doubt there are many journalists that follow LM cases more closely than Pravit has. I met him earlier in the yeat at the Somyot trial, he was the first to interview Somyot's wife along with Fai Suluck from Prachatai. Of course, Pravit is well aware that these cases are mainly a product of Thailand's authoritarian political culture & power structure, not simply any particular government.

For more on this, see, for instance:

'The combination of autocracy and democracy, or democracy and autocracy, runs deep in the Thai elite consciousness. A few days before the 1932 revolution and the end to the absolute monarchy, King Prajadhipok thought about granting a constitution, but all the while he clung to the hope that the Thai people could be encouraged to support the absolute monarchy. King Prajadhipok expressed it this way: “Our country uses a ‘dictatorship’ system of government, but our system is not like other ‘dictator’ systems. On the contrary, it has many characteristics of a ‘democracy.’ Thus it is a sort of half-and-half, and we haven’t really decided which system we will follow.” Thai and Western political scientists have written many thousands of words on “semi-democracy” in Thailand ever since that time. Indeed, “semi-democracy” (khruang bai or ครึ่งใบ in Thai) would be a good summary of what King Prajadhipok was saying. As the decades have passed, there has not been much improvement. At this point it’s more like “one quarter democracy,” or even less. History and the passage of time have merely reversed the formulation, as if to say, “our country uses a democratic system of government, but it has many characteristics of dictatorship.'

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/2720

[Sunderland]

Talibanistic! Hubbity hub hub hub ...

... is that what the students lost their lives for in 1973???

Crying shame.

[anon210]

Interesting laws... Soon, you will not be able to say that the monks are thieving parasites going to buy gadgets at Pantip with the money of "donations". Let alone post pics of the same guys enjoying the pleasures of buying a large LCD tv or playing with an Iphone 5.

Since "offense to religion" is included now, can someone tell me what differentiates Thailand from a theocratic Islamic republic?

BTW, "religion" in the singular, seems to indicate that there is a State religion? I did not see that in the thai constitution...

This prepared draft Constitution contains the significant principles in maintaining mutual interest of the Thai people in securing of independence and security of the nation, upholding all religions

http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/const/2007/1.html

[Noistar]

Where are the strong PTP and Thaksin supporters, now?

I would like to hear the explanation why this is good for Thailand and Democracy.

Well clearly it's not. But this is basically what the yellow shirts and democrats wanted as well.

"But this is basically what the yellow shirts and democrats wanted as well.

What has the past to do with the future?

Dumb question

Thailand's past is its future

[bigbamboo]

Interesting laws... Soon, you will not be able to say that the monks are thieving parasites going to buy gadgets at Pantip with the money of "donations". Let alone post pics of the same guys enjoying the pleasures of buying a large LCD tv or playing with an Iphone 5.

Since "offense to religion" is included now, can someone tell me what differentiates Thailand from a theocratic Islamic republic?

BTW, "religion" in the singular, seems to indicate that there is a State religion? I did not see that in the thai constitution...

This prepared draft Constitution contains the significant principles in maintaining mutual interest of the Thai people in securing of independence and security of the nation, upholding all religions

http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/const/2007/1.html

Considering most Thais break all the basic tenets of Buddhism anyway I find it hard to see how it could possibly be further offended. If the Lord Buddha himself returned to Earth he wouldn't know 'Thailand' from an airport franchise.

[Noistar]

Where are the strong PTP and Thaksin supporters, now?

I would like to hear the explanation why this is good for Thailand and Democracy.

Well clearly it's not. But this is basically what the yellow shirts and democrats wanted as well.

"But this is basically what the yellow shirts and democrats wanted as well.

What has the past to do with the future?

I'm not defending PTP policies. Just stating that if the opposing party was in control today it would also suppress freedoms and introduce stricter laws exactly like this. Voting for the others only gets you more of the same.

PTP and Democrats only want power. Despite their names there is no political ideology behind these parties

An interesting opinion based on an assumption about a party in opposition against a government that is actually introducing these laws. Edited October 16, 2013 by Noistar