US Senate votes to raise debt cap, reopen government

[ronz28]

Even John Boehner, Speaker of the US House, actually joined Thai/American US Congresswoman Tammy Duckworth of Illinois to finally/temporarily end the US government shutdown. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/congress-votes-to-end-shutdown/house.html

[SinglePot]

Scientifically proven fact:

Positive mental attitude leads to longer healthier life.*

Reduces healthcare costs, insurance premiums, and government debt.

Same in Squaw Lake, Minnesota. Same in Chiang Mai.

*references available on request

It is also said that "ignorance is bliss". You, my friend, must surely have reached nirvana by now.

Lanna? Who are you trying to kid.

You're not my 4th grade teacher, Sister Mary Augustine are you? Because she asked me that very same thing once.

Maybe she knew you would end up as a republican in la na land.

Nip down the wat and start giving.

A little bit of generosity for the less fortunate.

[samran]

*Deleted post edited out*

Agree 3000%

* sigh *

It was an excellent well balanced post.

[butterlimbo]

Scientifically proven fact:

Positive mental attitude leads to longer healthier life.*

Reduces healthcare costs, insurance premiums, and government debt.

Same in Squaw Lake, Minnesota. Same in Chiang Mai.

*references available on request

Tell that Dianne Reidy.

[Publicus]

I must say, so many of these deficit, ObamaCare and sovereign debt hawks are in a certain mood and frame of mind after the conservative and mooner tea party debacle, their unsuccessful "Plan 9 From Outer Space" fight.

The mooners not only lost, they got completely routed by their own folly and by Prez Obama's firm stance, which was supported by 3 of 4 Americans.

Our long national nightmare is over but not everyone is relieved or pleased.

In fact, some people are rather cross.

Actually, we don't really need a new political party. All the disgruntled and disagreeable need to do at this point is to revive the Know Nothing party of the 1850s.

The actual name of the Know Nothing party was the American Party, which on the face of it sounds perfectly fine and legitimate. But the present adherents could equally use an already existing party name, i.e., the Tea Party.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Publicus

[NeverSure]

Just out of interest... How many times did Bush v2 raise the debt ceiling and by how much? A dozen times and by 4T or was it more?

Not wishing to see another of your posts go to waste, let me see if I can provide the answer.

1. The debt ceiling under GWB was raised a total of 7 times, for an increase of $5.365 Trillion (From $5.95 Trillion to $11.315 Trillion)

2. The debt ceiling under Obama has now been raised a total of 6 times for an increase of $5.385 Trillion (From $11.315 Trillion to $16.7 Trillion)

3. This latest debt ceiling increase is the 7th time for the Obama administration to secure an increase but I have been unable to determine exactly what the new debt ceiling amount is now pegged at. Senator Reid initially wanted $1 Trillion, which if approved would raise the new debt ceiling to $17.7 Trillion.

Uhhhh, just for the record.

Bush was in office over an 8 year period. Obama has been in office for only four years and nine months.

Thirty nine more months to look forward to on this little problem.

Quoting myself to add forgotten link:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals/

I don't doubt your facts. But you left out reality. George Bush was handed a thriving economy he started two unwinable wars Now if that wasn't the start of turning the national dept up what was pouring $1,000,000,000 a day down the drain with no way out. He was given information of a possible recession if he didn't do some thing. He made a choice to do nothing. It started and he started the government bail out.

In short George Bush was handed a bouquet of roses and turned it into a bucket of sh-t to pass on. Then along comes some clown with look how much better Bush did than Obama is doing. Not only costing Billions and Billions of dollars how many Americans did Bush get killed with his trumped up charges against Iraq. How is Iraq doing now as a direct result of Bush with the help of a VP and secretary of defense? We may not like it but the alternative would be worse if Obama had not taken the actions he did. In a sense it is still Bush in the White House.

Wow. Have you never heard of the dot.com bust that happened late in Clinton's term and ran the NASDAQ from about 5,000 to about 1,200, and sent the US into deficit and more debt late in Clinton's term? Are you really unaware of the recession Bush inherited? (I'm no Bush fan, but I am a fan of the truth.)

For ALL of you who are trumpeting your great socialist ideas of the government taking care of people, including raising the debt ceiling to fund WHATEVER:

I simply want to know "when do we stop massive deficit spending and balance the US budget?"

We have so many pigs at the government trough that those who would be responsible and balance the budget are the bad guys who will lose elections in favor of more deficits and debt. Bend over and kiss your grandchildren's fannies good bye as you saddle them with this debt.

[Jingthing]

What a piece of work is this Ted Cruz! I'm a long term political junkie and I've never seen the likes of him before.

Canada, please take him back!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-in-debt-limit-and-shutdown-defeat-ted-cruz-is-one-sore-loser/2013/10/16/d896d180-36b4-11e3-ae46-e4248e75c8ea_story.html

The amount of wreckage Cruz has caused in such a short time is truly awe-inspiring. He has damaged his party, hurt the economy, lowered the nation’s standing and set back the conservative cause. But appearing at the Capitol on Wednesday morning, he wore a broad smile as reporters and cameras surrounded him to learn what further mayhem he was planning.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Jingthing

[LomSak27]

Now what is it - 24 billion dollars the cons ervatives cost the US taxpayer with this latest hissy fit?!

Just thank the Party that believes in Personel Responsibility. No worries kids, the US taxpayer will foot the bill for your playacting.

[F430murci]

Not wishing to see another of your posts go to waste, let me see if I can provide the answer.

1. The debt ceiling under GWB was raised a total of 7 times, for an increase of $5.365 Trillion (From $5.95 Trillion to $11.315 Trillion)

2. The debt ceiling under Obama has now been raised a total of 6 times for an increase of $5.385 Trillion (From $11.315 Trillion to $16.7 Trillion)

3. This latest debt ceiling increase is the 7th time for the Obama administration to secure an increase but I have been unable to determine exactly what the new debt ceiling amount is now pegged at. Senator Reid initially wanted $1 Trillion, which if approved would raise the new debt ceiling to $17.7 Trillion.

Uhhhh, just for the record.

Bush was in office over an 8 year period. Obama has been in office for only four years and nine months.

Thirty nine more months to look forward to on this little problem.

Quoting myself to add forgotten link:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals/

I don't doubt your facts. But you left out reality. George Bush was handed a thriving economy he started two unwinable wars Now if that wasn't the start of turning the national dept up what was pouring $1,000,000,000 a day down the drain with no way out. He was given information of a possible recession if he didn't do some thing. He made a choice to do nothing. It started and he started the government bail out.

In short George Bush was handed a bouquet of roses and turned it into a bucket of sh-t to pass on. Then along comes some clown with look how much better Bush did than Obama is doing. Not only costing Billions and Billions of dollars how many Americans did Bush get killed with his trumped up charges against Iraq. How is Iraq doing now as a direct result of Bush with the help of a VP and secretary of defense? We may not like it but the alternative would be worse if Obama had not taken the actions he did. In a sense it is still Bush in the White House.

Wow. Have you never heard of the dot.com bust that happened late in Clinton's term and ran the NASDAQ from about 5,000 to about 1,200, and sent the US into deficit and more debt late in Clinton's term? Are you really unaware of the recession Bush inherited? (I'm no Bush fan, but I am a fan of the truth.)

For ALL of you who are trumpeting your great socialist ideas of the government taking care of people, including raising the debt ceiling to fund WHATEVER:

I simply want to know "when do we stop massive deficit spending and balance the US budget?"

We have so many pigs at the government trough that those who would be responsible and balance the budget are the bad guys who will lose elections in favor of more deficits and debt. Bend over and kiss your grandchildren's fannies good bye as you saddle them with this debt.

dot.com bubble not a huge issue and those that got burned somewhat deserved it. Greedy investors were basically day trading on companies that had never turned any profit and were simply burning through venture capital to stay a float. Microsoft's issues may have also hastened the bear.

I was there with them. I rode JDSU from $ 70 to $ 150, sold it, got back in at $ 120ish and that week it went south to less than $ 10 if I recall correctly. Day trading at its finest and no one to blame but myself. This, however, was a micro economic issue.

Regarding bubble, didn't the market jump from 1,800 to around 5,000 in just over a year? I think it was around 2,500 when Clinton left, but tanked to your 1,200 figure after 9-11 (I think 1,100 in late 2002). The 5,000 to 2,500 was a market correction and a tough lesson for those trying to make quick money. The 2,500 to 1,100 post 9-11 would have been more of a macro economic issue that developed under Bush Jr. after the market corrected.

Edited October 17, 2013 by F430murci

[notmyself]

So now our Federal government need to "speculate" it's way out of our massive federal debt?? And it's "Basic 101" math??

How is wealth generated?

I am at my wits end, I have nothing and owe a thousand bucks (debt). I borrow 100 bucks and buy 'x'. I then sell 'x' for 130 bucks. I eat (2 bucks), pay off the 100 bucks I borrowed plus interest (102 bucks) and pay the interest of the 1000 bucks debt (20 bucks). The remaining 8 bucks I use to pay off from the 1000 Bucks debt meaning I only have to pay off interest and debt of 992 Bucks. However, the market is s**t thanks to Bush so I have to ride it out or starve to death. I have borrowed 100 bucks, eaten and paid off the interest on the 1000 Buck debt along with the 100 Bucks I borrowed. I still owe all the 1000 Bucks debt and the interest on the 100 Bucks but I am still alive and have no reason to think that I will not be in a position to get into the black. If I didn't then I should just give up and die.

Not even 101.

I have US$100,000. Would I speculate by giving it to the Republicans who want to roll over and die or the Democrats who are at least willing to give it their best shot?

[Scott]

Some nasty, off-topic posts have been deleted.

[Scott]

Enough with off-topic posts.

Continued endless off-topic arguments will result in suspensions.

[F430murci]

Interesting article.

-----

Poll: Amid shutdown, Republican falls further behind in race for Va. governor

. . .

Many say the shutdown will have an impact on their vote -- 38 percent of registered voters said it would have a major impact on it; 21 percent said it would have a minor one. Among respondents who said it has had a major impact on their vote, McAuliffe is winning them 55-27 percent. Among those who say it is a minor issue, McAuliffe also leads, 52-33 percent.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/17/21012601-poll-amid-shutdown-republican-falls-further-behind-in-race-for-va-governor?lite

[SinglePot]

"Not everyone in Congress was dismissive of Reidys outburst, though. According to the Washington Post, Rep. Gerry Connolly (D-Va.) expressed sympathy for the stenographer because something clearly happened there."

Yep. Looks like a frustrating debacle happened here.

US lost 24 billion dollars and their credibility abroad took a hammering. The Chinese are laughing into their rice bowls and Putin is probably writing his next letter to the NY Times.

Edited October 18, 2013 by SinglePot

[notmyself]

Interesting article.

-----

Poll: Amid shutdown, Republican falls further behind in race for Va. governor

. . .

Many say the shutdown will have an impact on their vote -- 38 percent of registered voters said it would have a major impact on it; 21 percent said it would have a minor one. Among respondents who said it has had a major impact on their vote, McAuliffe is winning them 55-27 percent. Among those who say it is a minor issue, McAuliffe also leads, 52-33 percent.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/17/21012601-poll-amid-shutdown-republican-falls-further-behind-in-race-for-va-governor?lite

I was listening to Fox earlier and 2014% said raising the debt ceiling was a bad idea. That is pretty high by all accounts.

[Baloo22]

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government’s reckless fiscal policies.

And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest-growing expenses in the federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and states of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America’s priorities. Instead, interest payments are a significant tax on all Americans — a debt tax that Washington doesn’t want to talk about. If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we would see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies.

Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

[boomerangutang]

When Senator McCain was running for prez, he said something like; "let's look at spending across the board, and see what can be cut - but we won't touch veterans' benefits."

McCain is a military veteran. What he said is symptomatic of everyone who gets money from the Federal coffers. All of 'em talk about the need to either cut programs or lessen expenses, but everyone has one or more favorite programs which are sacrosanct from their individual perspective. Social Security (which was opposed by Reps when first proposed by Dems) is now considered untouchable by those receiving it. Pensions, same. SSI, same. PIK, Medicaid, Medicare, Food Stamps, NIH, and a thousand other Fed pay-out programs, are all considered indispensable by those benefiting from them.

In essence, Americans say; "Ok cut back on someone else's program if you must, but don't even think about cutting back on a program which sends me a check." Recently, some politicians said that paying on the Nat'l debt (and bonds and all the rest) is #1 priority. Apparently, to them, it's therefore more important than veteran benefits, and their own salaries/pensions.

To me, the most important program to maintain, is keeping nuclear fuel rods refrigerated. Think about it: if those hundreds of fuel dumps aren't kept artificially very cold, the water would boil off, and fission resumes. In essence; there's a nuclear 'dirty bomb' at each site. What's worse? pissing off the Chinese and Japanese by not paying dividends on their loans to the US, or a hundred dirty Nuke bombs going off in the US? I'd also maintain feeding of zoo animals.

To me, the best way to lessen runaway spending is to start by decreasing spending by 20% on everything. Concurrently, get input from all sorts of Americans (not just politicians) on which Fed programs to ditch (like PIK), and which to lower funding for (like retirement benefits for rich people).

[hellodolly]

Maybe she knew you would end up as a republican in la na land.

Nip down the wat and start giving.

A little bit of generosity for the less fortunate.

You say

"A little bit of generosity for the less fortunate."

That statement goes against every thing the Republican Party stands for

Shame on you for even suggesting such a humanitarian thing to a Republican

[Exsexyman]

Can successfully kicked a few yards down the road.

[hellodolly]

The tea party, the dangerous and destructive revolutionary nihilist troublemakers behind this recent near disaster, which did indeed cause massive damage to the American brand globally (thanks for nothing!) are wounded by this clear defeat. But they are not finished. They are the worse kind of fanatics. As I've said before, they are indeed more of a threat to modern America than Iran, which is also a real threat, but the tea party sadly still has power WITHIN the U.S.A.

Happily, Obama has rediscovered his gonads. More please, President.

This from a very well respected moderate American political commentator, Mr. Zakaria:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fareed-zakaria-conservatism-needs-to-lighten-up/2013/10/16/49418e5c-3692-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.html?hpid=z4

... Even after the worst recession since the Great Depression, there are no obvious radicals, anarchists, Black Panthers or other revolutionary movements — save the tea party.

For some tacticians and consultants, extreme rhetoric is just a way to keep the troops fired up. But rhetoric gives meaning and shape to a political movement. Over the past six decades, conservatism’s language of decay, despair and decline have created a powerful group of Americans who believe fervently in this dark narrative and are determined to stop the country from plunging into imminent oblivion. They aren’t going to give up just yet.

The era of crises could end, but only when this group of conservatives makes its peace with today’s America. They are misty-eyed in their devotion to a distant republic of myth and memory yet passionate in their dislike of the messy, multiracial, quasi-capitalist democracy that has been around for half a century — a fifth of our country’s history. At some point, will they come to recognize that you cannot love America in theory and hate it in fact?

I could be wrong but are these people not pushing for a form of anarchy under there control?

[hellodolly]

End of US shutdown: 'reaction of American people is very, very negative, and I understand this' - McCain

WASHINGTON: -- At the moment what US President Barack Obama was signing the legislation that ended the US government shutdown and raised the US debt ceiling, the Voice of Russia correspondent, Ludmila Chernova, was at Capitol Hill.

Republican senator John McCain, was there as well, speaking with the BBC about the future of the US economy after the Senate and Congress managed to reach a deal, and what the Republicans are going to do next.

What is your reaction at the end of the government shutdown?

Of course, relief that it’s over. It is kind of hard on us but, of course, not nearly as hard on us as it was on all the Americans who depended on our government – not just those who are government workers but those who work for government, contractors who will never be compensated for what they’ve lost. So, I’m very relieved, and all three – the President, the Democrats, and the Republicans – are now much lower in the public opinion, only Republicans are the most.

What does it tell us about your party? Because the biggest relief has been within the Republican Party. They’ve been divided and they’ve taken the nations to the brink.

What it means is that we are going to continue a debate within our party as to the correction of the party and how we should handle things first. And part of that debate is America’s role in the world. People want to live in a fortunate America, so there’s gonna be a spirit of debate in our party.

Full story: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_10_17/End-of-US-shutdown-reaction-of-American-people-is-very-very-negative-and-I-understand-this-McCain-9360/

-- THE VOICE OF RUSSIA 2013-10-17

McCain says

"What it means is that we are going to continue a debate within our party as to the correction of the party and how we should handle things first. And part of that debate is America’s role in the world. People want to live in a fortunate America, so there’s gonna be a spirit of debate in our party."

Isn't that some thing they should have considered before starting two unwinable wars?

[SinglePot]

Maybe she knew you would end up as a republican in la na land.

Nip down the wat and start giving.

A little bit of generosity for the less fortunate.

You say

"A little bit of generosity for the less fortunate."

That statement goes against every thing the Republican Party stands for

Shame on you for even suggesting such a humanitarian thing to a Republican

Yep. We had this Personal Responsibility thing a while back in the UK. It was called Thatcherism.

Polarized views on Mrs T.

Nixon seemed to like her.

She decimated communities and the heart of England.

Maybe there is a lesson.

[Berkshire]

When Senator McCain was running for prez, he said something like; "let's look at spending across the board, and see what can be cut - but we won't touch veterans' benefits."

McCain is a military veteran. What he said is symptomatic of everyone who gets money from the Federal coffers. All of 'em talk about the need to either cut programs or lessen expenses, but everyone has one or more favorite programs which are sacrosanct from their individual perspective. Social Security (which was opposed by Reps when first proposed by Dems) is now considered untouchable by those receiving it. Pensions, same. SSI, same. PIK, Medicaid, Medicare, Food Stamps, NIH, and a thousand other Fed pay-out programs, are all considered indispensable by those benefiting from them.

In essence, Americans say; "Ok cut back on someone else's program if you must, but don't even think about cutting back on a program which sends me a check." Recently, some politicians said that paying on the Nat'l debt (and bonds and all the rest) is #1 priority. Apparently, to them, it's therefore more important than veteran benefits, and their own salaries/pensions.

To me, the most important program to maintain, is keeping nuclear fuel rods refrigerated. Think about it: if those hundreds of fuel dumps aren't kept artificially very cold, the water would boil off, and fission resumes. In essence; there's a nuclear 'dirty bomb' at each site. What's worse? pissing off the Chinese and Japanese by not paying dividends on their loans to the US, or a hundred dirty Nuke bombs going off in the US? I'd also maintain feeding of zoo animals.

To me, the best way to lessen runaway spending is to start by decreasing spending by 20% on everything. Concurrently, get input from all sorts of Americans (not just politicians) on which Fed programs to ditch (like PIK), and which to lower funding for (like retirement benefits for rich people).

You are 100% correct. Across-the-board cuts would probably be a start, although 20% is a bit much. But I believe that there is one area that could be cut and would save us billions without ruffling any feathers. It's called waste, fraud, and abuse. There is tons of waste and fraud in the system, from medicare to tax evaders to sending checks to dead people. Not to mention outright corruption. I have worked with the DoD, for example, and have seen it with my own eyes. It's amazing that more is not being done about it.

[Credo]

The problem with catching up with abuse is that often it requires an entire department or division that costs more than it saves to catch only a small number of cheaters, so it's not always cost effective.

We certainly need people to be policing the system for abuse, fraud and cheating, but it needs to be remember that it simply doesn't safe as much as many people think it will.

[F430murci]

The problem with catching up with abuse is that often it requires an entire department or division that costs more than it saves to catch only a small number of cheaters, so it's not always cost effective.

We certainly need people to be policing the system for abuse, fraud and cheating, but it needs to be remember that it simply doesn't safe as much as many people think it will.

Small number of cheaters. Have you ever audited contractor or construction bills. I did recently and was amazed to see that the contractor had about a 1/3 of its crew able to work an average of 20 to 22 hours per day at job sites in two different cities. Literally 7 days a week and billed a combined 142 hours per week for some these workers. Any that can work heavy labor at construction site 142 hours a week is my hero.

Contractors know they can get a away with it, especially on large projects with little or no oversight. Candidly, I would say 90% of any decent sized government construction contracts are fraudulently padded and overbilled if working on a time and material basis. Why does government pay crazy prices for small items, because contractors know they can charge this with little chance an audit will nail it. Why no audits, because it is not a private company's money and government employees in charge of this stuff are under paid and have too much to do to care. Medicare and Medicaid fraud is horrendous also. Absolutely out of control.

Another case in point . . . What the heck. $ 196,000,000 to construct a website that does not work. CGI from Canada just gouged the hell out of the US. CGI got fired by a another company for same issues over a $ 40 million contract and company got money back, but US is slated to pay them another $100,000,000 to fixe what was supposed to costs only $ 60 million to begin with. CGI is just another in a long line of contractors gouging US taxpayers.

-----

More than $196 million spent on glitch-ridden Heathcare.gov The company that built the botched website where people are supposed to sign up for the Obama’s health care exchanges has spent millions of dollars developing Healthcare.gov, but people are still having trouble signing up. NBC’s Tom Costello reports.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/53309356/#53307233

Edited October 18, 2013 by F430murci

[Credo]

Actually, I did oversee a department that was involved in quality control. It was not cost effective. Also, I did not say we shouldn't go after them, quite the opposite. If there is not policing, there will be massive abuse of the systems. My point is that it does not save the money that many people think it will.

Much of what we consider to be abusive or fraudulent is also quite legal. But this is going to get us very far off-topic.

[Johpa]

The problem with catching up with abuse is that often it requires an entire department or division that costs more than it saves to catch only a small number of cheaters, so it's not always cost effective.

We certainly need people to be policing the system for abuse, fraud and cheating, but it needs to be remember that it simply doesn't safe as much as many people think it will.

The solution to the cost of policing is to increase the penal fines, and increased jail time for such "white collar" crimes for those who are found guilty, to act as a deterrant. Currently some of the largest abusers emanate from the corporatocracy where criminal acts rarely lead to any punshments. Look, it is not that complicated for the US. The country needs to cut spending focused on the defense budget where some of the largest abuse occurs, raise taxes on the upper 1%, remove the cap of social security, remove the major tax loopholes, and increase the capital gains tax, and all would be solved. But what really irks me is the language being used by both sides, the language of "entitlements". It as if poor people receiving health care or food stamps are being percieved of some guilty secret pleasures of which they are undeserving. While on the other hand the enormous tax loopholes of the rich and shameless are not descrtibed as entitlements. The entire vocabualry of the arguments reeks of yet another victory for Frank Luntz.

[F430murci]

Actually, I did oversee a department that was involved in quality control. It was not cost effective. Also, I did not say we shouldn't go after them, quite the opposite. If there is not policing, there will be massive abuse of the systems. My point is that it does not save the money that many people think it will.

Much of what we consider to be abusive or fraudulent is also quite legal. But this is going to get us very far off-topic.

QC is a bit different from auditing for fraudulent billing. Paying some CPAs to perform audits should be cost effective.

One CPA could have reviewed what I recently reviewed in a day or two. Pay him $ 120K a year. One project like the one I mentioned above would have saved about $ 750,000 on a $ 3,000,000 bill for a project that lasted only 2 and 1/2 months.

This subcontractor billed 13 of 16 apprentices on the job as journeymen, but paid them as apprentices and pocketed the difference. They billed hundreds of hours for people never on the job site that were working in other cities at other projects. This led to inefficiencies and work having to be redone by another subcontractor that also got paid for the work that the first subcontractor did not do or did wrong.

What it comes down to is companies and consumers are more careful about the bills they pay, but the government does not answer to shareholders or executives worried about remaining profitable so there is little or no oversight and people abuse the hell out of the system.

[SinglePot]

The fact that we are here today to debate raising Americas debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government cant pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our governments reckless fiscal policies.

And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest-growing expenses in the federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and states of critical investments in infrastructure like bridges, ports and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on.

Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in Americas priorities. Instead, interest payments are a significant tax on all Americans a debt tax that Washington doesnt want to talk about. If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we would see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies.

Increasing Americas debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

Responsible fiscal policies. I assume you have concrete proposals. Please provide details.

[Johpa]

Also realize that " Leadership means that the buck stops here " does not mean "Blame Bush, Blame Bush, Blame Bush, Blame Bush.................".

But you can't lay all the blame on someone for not being able to come up with a successful answer to dilemmas caused by others, in this case the Bush the Younger admisitration. It was G.W. Bush and his deluded neocons that led the US into a needless, but more to the point, unfunded war. It was GW who cut taxes to the wealthy just as they were grabbing the lion's share on the GDP. You can blame Obama for many failings, you can criticize his implementation of the Republican inspired ACA, but the root cause of the current US fiscal problems arises from unfunded wars and tax reductions to the group that has the capital in the first place.