'Child-abusing' Thai Abbot murdered by his victim

[DocN]

Glad to see, that some of you have such a blast with homosexual rape!

[spidermike007]

This is a very, very bizarre topic. First of all, is 17 years old considered a child? Secondarily, is it considered abuse, when the 17 year old consents to do the old man for a fee? Of course, there is a violation of some sort that takes place when the freak decides not to pay. But, does it rise to the occasion of abuse? That is a very strong term to apply to this situation, where the circumstances are murky at best. And lastly, does the fact that he did not pay warrant him being murdered? Punished maybe, but murdered? I am in no way condoning anything the abbott did. He is supposed to be a moral authority, and supposed to be a celibate, and an example to his people. He quite obviously fell way, way short of that mark. But, if what is reported is representative of the actual facts, I do not think we got the straight facts, perhaps?

[Card]

This is a very, very bizarre topic. First of all, is 17 years old considered a child? Secondarily, is it considered abuse, when the 17 year old consents to do the old man for a fee? Of course, there is a violation of some sort that takes place when the freak decides not to pay. But, does it rise to the occasion of abuse? That is a very strong term to apply to this situation, where the circumstances are murky at best. And lastly, does the fact that he did not pay warrant him being murdered? Punished maybe, but murdered? I am in no way condoning anything the abbott did. He is supposed to be a moral authority, and supposed to be a celibate, and an example to his people. He quite obviously fell way, way short of that mark. But, if what is reported is representative of the actual facts, I do not think we got the straight facts, perhaps?

You are in danger of offending some k-heads on here by actually analysing the situation. The anti-pedo brigade just love to target anything to do with pedos - pedatricians, pedologists, pedodontics, you name it. Kill 'em, torture 'em, never mind a trial, vigilantes forward! But the worst thing in their minds are those people who actually think about the situation. These k-heads go around believing there is no global warming, and sit on a flat earth watching the sun go around. The most they do in a day is to call those who think and analyse, pedos or pedo defenders. It used to be witches, then Jews, then communists, latterly terrorists. So watch out and don't think, and don't analyse or you might offend them.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Card

[butterlimbo]

This is a very, very bizarre topic. First of all, is 17 years old considered a child? Secondarily, is it considered abuse, when the 17 year old consents to do the old man for a fee? Of course, there is a violation of some sort that takes place when the freak decides not to pay. But, does it rise to the occasion of abuse? That is a very strong term to apply to this situation, where the circumstances are murky at best. And lastly, does the fact that he did not pay warrant him being murdered? Punished maybe, but murdered? I am in no way condoning anything the abbott did. He is supposed to be a moral authority, and supposed to be a celibate, and an example to his people. He quite obviously fell way, way short of that mark. But, if what is reported is representative of the actual facts, I do not think we got the straight facts, perhaps?

Yes it is still abuse if a pedo use his position to rape a child. paying money doesn't make it right.

the monk novice relationship is similar to are teacher student relationship. that isn't like to use the service of prostitutes.

[balo]

All we hear about is foreigners abusing minors , I wonder how much sexual abuse happens in Thailand, in temples or in rural areas. And the police will not lift a finger to help the victims.

Edited October 18, 2013 by balo

[Somtamnication]

Karma is a wonderful thing sometimes.

[Card]

This is a very, very bizarre topic. First of all, is 17 years old considered a child? Secondarily, is it considered abuse, when the 17 year old consents to do the old man for a fee? Of course, there is a violation of some sort that takes place when the freak decides not to pay. But, does it rise to the occasion of abuse? That is a very strong term to apply to this situation, where the circumstances are murky at best. And lastly, does the fact that he did not pay warrant him being murdered? Punished maybe, but murdered? I am in no way condoning anything the abbott did. He is supposed to be a moral authority, and supposed to be a celibate, and an example to his people. He quite obviously fell way, way short of that mark. But, if what is reported is representative of the actual facts, I do not think we got the straight facts, perhaps?

You are in danger of offending some k-heads on here by actually analysing the situation. The anti-pedo brigade just love to target anything to do with pedos - pedatricians, pedologists, pedodontics, you name it. Kill 'em, torture 'em, never mind a trial, vigilantes forward! But the worst thing in their minds are those people who actually think about the situation. These k-heads go around believing there is no global warming, and sit on a flat earth watching the sun go around. The most they do in a day is to call those who think and analyse, pedos or pedo defenders. It used to be witches, then Jews, then communists, latterly terrorists. So watch out and don't think, and don't analyse or you might offend them.

Typical argument of the pedo defense force. Pedos will tell you that child love is totally natural and nothing wrong. scientific proven just like that the earth is a sphere.

And then the paint themselves in a line of innocent victims like the Jews or compare it with racial discrimination against blacks.

You still haven't got it have you? Still floundering. The case is not pro-pedo, it is pro-thinking.

[newermonkey]

Good job. Hope the abbot didn't die immediately.

That's a bit strong isn't it? just because he dint pay his bills. So you are going to bash some old conniving guy to death and hope he dies slowly just because he dint pay you the few hundred baht he owes you? OMG I wouldn't want to meet you in the wrong circumstances.

Child abuse is still child abuse, no matter if the perpetrator pays his victims money or not.

but wishing the abuser a slow painful death or calling it a good job is also wrong.

Nah...the guy deserves to die slowly. His victims have to live with it forever. Why should he escape with a quick exit?

If someone abused my kid, I would make sure the rest of their life (which wouldn't be long) would be as painful as possible.

If you had read the original story it seemed the 17 year old was ok with the sex but NOT ok about not being paid on time!!!! this was not a kid, he was over 15 years old and looks like he gave consent.

[butterlimbo]

If you had read the original story it seemed the 17 year old was ok with the sex but NOT ok about not being paid on time!!!! this was not a kid, he was over 15 years old and looks like he gave consent.

no, it is not okay. neither is it okay to go out and look on the street or in special establishment for underage prostitutes and pay them for service nor is it okay if you misuse your position of a teacher like authority figure to manipulate underage victims in this kind of situation. there is no consent.

[Scott]

Let's drop the Pedophilia discussion. It's not applicable in this thread and it's inflammatory.

[Baerboxer]

One more time Monks, Priests etc .. are only humain being after all .

Indeed. But certain religions require their priests, monks, nuns, bishops, abbots or whatever to take a vow of celibacy. The all know this when they choose to enter their particular order and take the vow. If they don't want to do this, can't control their sexual desires, or are not fully committed then maybe they should think before taking the vow and breaking it.

Drug dealers, murderers, adulterers, drunk drivers, etc - "all human beings after all" But, human beings must take responsibility for their actions.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Baerboxer

[butterlimbo]

One more time Monks, Priests etc .. are only humain being after all .

child abuse is not a human nature thing.

this isn't just about that he broke his vow of celibacy.

[silent]

A very Catholic-like story......right down to the inaction and cover up + location changes.....damnable

Sorry I read this story.....that poor 17 year old kid.....

Make religion against the law will solve a lot of problems

I think that's been tried and worked about the same as prohibition.

[silent]

Glad to see, that some of you have such a blast with homosexual rape!

Where's the rape! Sounds a little like a civil matter here or born again lady boy.

[pgrahmm]

If you had read the original story it seemed the 17 year old was ok with the sex but NOT ok about not being paid on time!!!! this was not a kid, he was over 15 years old and looks like he gave consent.

no, it is not okay. neither is it okay to go out and look on the street or in special establishment for underage prostitutes and pay them for service nor is it okay if you misuse your position of a teacher like authority figure to manipulate underage victims in this kind of situation. there is no consent.

My guess is that he/many were "groomed" for this type of "servoce"....You're 12-17 with no home and tha abbott/monk is your teacher....this abbott died too easily and the kid/boy/child is a pawn in an area he probably didn't know existed until he landed in the temple.....nothing about this is right......

And anyone that still believes in global warming hasn't studied the weather patterns for the last few 1000 years.....

Edited October 18, 2013 by pgrahmm

[AbuBacon]

The same fate should become the several thousand child fiddling catholic priests guilty of similar deeds all across the western world. However when old Santa papa says sorry, all is forgiven.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[connda]

KIA -- Karma in Action.

[tominbkk]

This is a very, very bizarre topic. First of all, is 17 years old considered a child? Secondarily, is it considered abuse, when the 17 year old consents to do the old man for a fee? Of course, there is a violation of some sort that takes place when the freak decides not to pay. But, does it rise to the occasion of abuse? That is a very strong term to apply to this situation, where the circumstances are murky at best. And lastly, does the fact that he did not pay warrant him being murdered? Punished maybe, but murdered? I am in no way condoning anything the abbott did. He is supposed to be a moral authority, and supposed to be a celibate, and an example to his people. He quite obviously fell way, way short of that mark. But, if what is reported is representative of the actual facts, I do not think we got the straight facts, perhaps?

Yes it is still abuse if a pedo use his position to rape a child. paying money doesn't make it right.

the monk novice relationship is similar to are teacher student relationship. that isn't like to use the service of prostitutes.

As a clarification, a pedophile refers to men or women who want to have sex with pre-pubescent children (as in haven't entered puberty yet). This would be children I suppose up to the age of 12-13? Not sure what you call somebody who has sex with a 17 year old, but I would assume the boy was well past puberty.

[saakura]

When celibacy is forced upon anyone, this is likely to happen as it is against the most basic instinct of man or animal to have sex. Being celibate should be a choice and not a requirement for a priest in any religion.

[lungmi]

Remark from the countdyside.

My spiritual master of my Wat goes every year for one month in "the monks jail" for broken the vinaya.

He is happy to see old friends, not many, 30 to 50.

He told me there must be thousends of monks to join

This year he goes in "jail" because he was "bargaining" for the materials to

ameliorate my clinique and the Pagoda for teaching english to hilltribe children.

Edited October 18, 2013 by lungmi

[connda]

When celibacy is forced upon anyone, this is likely to happen as it is against the most basic instinct of man or animal to have sex. Being celibate should be a choice and not a requirement for a priest in any religion.

Nobody is forcing priests and monks to be priests and monks. Celibacy is part of the package. If they want to be religious and have sex too, they can go the protestant minister route, or go back to being layman such as Mitsuo Shibahashi (Phra Mitsuo Gavesako).

The issue isn't celibacy -- it's morality -- and at least in Buddhism, morality is the underpinning of the religion.

Pra Kru Indra-Sanuwattna crossed the line and it came back and bit him.

Edited October 18, 2013 by connda

[WitawatWatawit]

The boy essentially was an underage prostitute. That's what it boils down to. But even that palls into irrelevance at the police inaction over complaints by parents about that camp behaviour. Just how sick is that? Does karma come back to bite the police? It wouldn't appear so given the pervasive (total?) malevolence in their ranks. They clearly don't believe in it.

[indyuk]

This article is outrageous and unnecessary.

We foreigners are vaguely aware of certain cultural anomalies in the behavior of Monks and their novices in Thai Buddhist Temples.

It is not our place to judge the Nane (Novices) or their Teachers (Monks). It is normal for a Nane (Novice) to be assigned to an individual mentor(Monk) when he first enters the temple. Usually a Nane will remain in the service of his master for some years.

However to accuse a deceased monk of habitual improper behavior is unfair and unreasonable.

Edited October 18, 2013 by indyuk

[Sailingbum1]

A very Catholic-like story......right down to the inaction and cover up + location changes.....damnable

Sorry I read this story.....that poor 17 year old kid.....

Perhaps. Though his only complaint was the refusal of payment for services rendered according to the story. Good riddance to the Abbot. His preying and bastardization of Gods truth is over. My prayers go to all those who's lives were altered by his peversions and misuse of trust and power. May you grow forth to see past mans sickness and awake to Gods truth

[tominbkk]

This article is outrageous and unnecessary.

We foreigners are vaguely aware of certain cultural anomalies in the behavior of Monks and their novices in Thai Buddhist Temples.

It is not our place to judge the Nane (Novices) or their Teachers (Monks). It is normal for a Nane (Novice) to be assigned to an individual mentor(Monk) when he first enters the temple. Usually a Nane will remain in the service of his master for some years.

However to accuse a deceased monk of habitual improper behavior is unfair and unreasonable.

You think it better to turn a blind eye to the situation and let them continue with their sordid little 'traditions"? What if your 12 year old son was initiated into the "tradition" by that creep?

[WitawatWatawit]

This article is outrageous and unnecessary.

We foreigners are vaguely aware of certain cultural anomalies in the behavior of Monks and their novices in Thai Buddhist Temples.

It is not our place to judge the Nane (Novices) or their Teachers (Monks). It is normal for a Nane (Novice) to be assigned to an individual mentor(Monk) when he first enters the temple. Usually a Nane will remain in the service of his master for some years.

However to accuse a deceased monk of habitual improper behavior is unfair and unreasonable.

This issue transcends all boundaries. Kids were involved. It's fair and reasonable.

[Pompey50]

Seem's to be a little confusion here, clearly some have not read the article properly.

Seem to be a number of posts on this thread that make the assumption that the age of consent is 18 as in the US and that being under 18 makes that person a child in the eyes of the law. So let us clarify a few points

First of all 'Child abuser' At the age of 17 the boy is 2 years over the age of consent in Thailand. However as money was involved that makes the age 18. Same as in the UK and in many other country's, an age of consent (16 in the UK) but a separate age where money is involved.

(If you are a foreigner, then there is an automatic assumption that some sort of 'pay' is involved, whether by gifts or money.)

As money changed hands the Abbot was breaking the law because as I have already stated the age for someone to be accepted as a prostitute is 18 (Prostitution is in fact illegal in Thailand. It is merely tolerated and partially regulated).

Seems the Abbot has a track record for doing this sort of thing though the article does not state the age of previous victims. However, regardless of age the Abbot was abusing his position to have sex with vulnerable young men.

This was not just about money as the article stated the Abbot was also holding the boys ecclesiastical ID. As you all know all Thais have to carry their ID card. If you become a monk you are then issued an ecclesiastical ID. By holding onto that he was clearly abusing the boy as he can not travel or do anything without his ID.

It does not: to my mind: matter that the boy originally consented to the sex the Abbot was clearly using his position of power and holding the boys ID to get sex for free.

Sadly for the young man concerned that is no defence for murder. I hope the courts accept the the circumstances as mitigation and are lenient with him. It would be sad indeed, for his life to be ruined by this.

[connda]

This article is outrageous and unnecessary.

We foreigners are vaguely aware of certain cultural anomalies in the behavior of Monks and their novices in Thai Buddhist Temples.

It is not our place to judge the Nane (Novices) or their Teachers (Monks). It is normal for a Nane (Novice) to be assigned to an individual mentor(Monk) when he first enters the temple. Usually a Nane will remain in the service of his master for some years.

However to accuse a deceased monk of habitual improper behavior is unfair and unreasonable.

According to the article, this wasn't an isolated instance. Usually, where there is smoke, there is fire.

Members of the Sangha are not above reproach or criticism -- even by Thais, and the fact that I'm 'non-Thai' does not discount that I've been a Theravada Buddhist for the better part of 35 years. "We" foreigners? Really. Buddhism isn't unique to Thailand, nor does Thailand own a franchise on this religion. Vinaya is Vinaya. Thai, Sri-Lanka, Cambodia, Myanmar, US, UK.....

I unfortunately whole-heatedly disagree with you...that's the non-Thai part of me that is quite unafraid to voice an opinion. Things like this need to see the light of day.

Edited October 18, 2013 by connda

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In this case, it seems as though Thai justice prevailed in the end.

Feel wronged by someone? Someone not pay you or insult you somehow???

Just kill them! That's the law of Thailand. That's how things are done here by the locals.

[Torrens54]

So, I think I've got it right. The Novice Monk was promptly de-frocked after he confessed?

I thought the stiff (dead) Abbot had already de-frocked him to have sex, or did they just do some skirt-lifting?

Also, when did the killing take place? got the impression it was quite recent but the state of decomposition of the bones being displayed, would indicate they have been rotting for some time. Just needs a bit of clarification.