It.....What An Insult?

[theblether]

I was talking to a fluent Thai speaker that's lived here for 8 years on Monday evening. She said she was appalled at some of the insults thrown at husbands by their wives in front of their faces. For example she has heard people referring to the farang they are having dinner with as "it". As in "it has eaten already", or "it has finished eating".

She explained to me that's the way your refer to an animal, such as a dog. There lies the depth of insult, wives and girlfriends referring to their partners as no better than animals. I sometimes wonder if some guys here should be investing in a dictaphone to record what's being said in their presence. I'm pretty sure that if they found out they were being referred to as no better than a dog it would adjust their thoughts about their relationship.

She did explain though that it's better to keep your mouth shut and not let on you can speak Thai a lot of the time as you'll hear the truth around you. I reckon that would be an exercise in self restraint as I'd end up wanting to knock the cheeky ******* out. Then again as my pal explained, it's a delicious humiliation when you reveal that you can speak the language and understand what has been said.

My Thai is getting slowly better, I think I'll keep it that way until I learn more about meditation. That way if I hear something that would normally make me flip I can have a wee meditate about it instead.

See, 9 days in the temple has made a difference already.

[harrry]

Yes,,,it taught you that you can only keep your mouth shut so long.

Most of the people I know refer to their partners rather politely when they are talking about them. They do however have little hesitation in teling people he cannot do something because he is old.

[HeijoshinCool]

After it taking me 10 days to read your post "9 Days in a Temple," this was refreshingly brief.

Yes, I have heard the same things said about me and other westerners. My GF was ready to kill a woman at a funeral because of the way she spoke about me. I stopped her only because then we'd have yet another dam_n funeral to go to, and probably have to donate twice the usual.

I'd say more, but I can hear that guy named after soy sauce skulking around nearby.

Edited October 23, 2013 by HeijoshinCool

[theblether]

How do you say "it" in Thai? Is it "man"?

Is it true that it's used to refer to animals in the way explained to me? I think if I heard that I'd explode. I think most of us would.

[Neeranam]

Blether mate, this is something that has nearly driven me to homicide in the past.

I've heard it countless times in tourist areas in restaurants and bars and not always with bar girls.

I have been referred to as 'mun' many times.

But be careful it can be used 'politely'- it is often used affectionately with younger family members and used between friends implying a good friendship.

Here's what Thai people say - they refer to the third person as mun (มัน) when they are a lower status. Of course as foreigners we have no status. It usually implies that that they don't like the person.

Students call teachers mun because they don't like them.

However, it is still used in a very disrespectful/offensive/cowardly way too. It is understandable in some cases as there are lots of bloody stupid and sad cases of "farang" here.

Differentiation, attitude, and acceptance are the keys to happiness regarding this word, and indeed the "faarang" word for myself.

I'd say that all Thais refer to 'farang' as mun when talking about farang in general. Example "farang mun chawp poo ying peu dam" (farang they like dark skinned girls.)

Edited October 23, 2013 by Neeranam

[David48]

Doesn't this more indicatively point to the relationship between the Husband and Wife then the Thai connection?

.

[mrtoad]

I have heard it used, I even heard it used by a wife of a friend, and he actually thought that it was a term of endearment.

[theblether]

Blether mate, this is something that has nearly driven me to homicide in the past.

I've heard it countless times in tourist areas in restaurants and bars and not always with bar girls.

I have been referred to as 'mun' many times.

But be careful it can be used 'politely'- it is often used affectionately with younger family members and used between friends implying a good friendship.

Here's what Thai people say - they refer to the third person as mun (มัน) when they are a lower status. Of course as foreigners we have no status. It usually implies that that they don't like the person.

Students call teachers mun because they don't like them.

However, it is still used in a very disrespectful/offensive/cowardly way too. It is understandable in some cases as there are lots of bloody stupid and sad cases of "farang" here.

Differentiation, attitude, and acceptance are the keys to happiness regarding this word, and indeed the "faarang" word for myself.

I'd say that all Thais refer to 'farang' as mun when talking about farang in general. Example "farang mun chawp poo ying peu dam" (like dark skinned girls.)

Got ya, so it's "mun", I won't forget that. I understand what you mean though about proper usage of the word.

I bet your glad you went to mediation too and that stopped you from carrying out your homicidal thoughts

[krisb]

Mun.

[Neeranam]

My wife says 'mun keeow' often to me. This means something like I could just eat you up.

I say it to babies too.

[Neeranam]

Blether mate, this is something that has nearly driven me to homicide in the past.

I've heard it countless times in tourist areas in restaurants and bars and not always with bar girls.

I have been referred to as 'mun' many times.

But be careful it can be used 'politely'- it is often used affectionately with younger family members and used between friends implying a good friendship.

Here's what Thai people say - they refer to the third person as mun (มัน) when they are a lower status. Of course as foreigners we have no status. It usually implies that that they don't like the person.

Students call teachers mun because they don't like them.

However, it is still used in a very disrespectful/offensive/cowardly way too. It is understandable in some cases as there are lots of bloody stupid and sad cases of "farang" here.

Differentiation, attitude, and acceptance are the keys to happiness regarding this word, and indeed the "faarang" word for myself.

I'd say that all Thais refer to 'farang' as mun when talking about farang in general. Example "farang mun chawp poo ying peu dam" (like dark skinned girls.)

Got ya, so it's "mun", I won't forget that. I understand what you mean though about proper usage of the word.

I bet your glad you went to mediation too and that stopped you from carrying out your homicidal thoughts

Actually, I've heard it a couple of times by monks - not sure what to make of that.

Some monks use'rude' pronouns to refer to themselves. It's something to do with getting rid of the 'self'.

[theblether]

Doesn't this more indicatively point to the relationship between the Husband and Wife then the Thai connection?

.

Quite obviously, however we are now hearing from other fluent Thai speakers that it's a deep insult commonly heard. I wasn't aware of it until Monday evening, I'm aware of it now.

The individual that told me about it has a very gentle way about her. She did say some of the things that she hears are appalling, even while walking through department stores and the like.

Anyway, were you aware of the word "mun" before this topic? I bet you there will be a fair few guys listening out for it now.

[ToddWeston]

I'm calling a family meeting tonight - I thought Todd in Thai was Mun

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

My wife says 'mun keeow' often to me. This means something like I could just eat you up.

I say it to babies too.

thats different though, i always thought of it as a phrase, dont know the spelling, but seems to be pronounced differently

[theblether]

Blether mate, this is something that has nearly driven me to homicide in the past.

I've heard it countless times in tourist areas in restaurants and bars and not always with bar girls.

I have been referred to as 'mun' many times.

But be careful it can be used 'politely'- it is often used affectionately with younger family members and used between friends implying a good friendship.

Here's what Thai people say - they refer to the third person as mun (มัน) when they are a lower status. Of course as foreigners we have no status. It usually implies that that they don't like the person.

Students call teachers mun because they don't like them.

However, it is still used in a very disrespectful/offensive/cowardly way too. It is understandable in some cases as there are lots of bloody stupid and sad cases of "farang" here.

Differentiation, attitude, and acceptance are the keys to happiness regarding this word, and indeed the "faarang" word for myself.

I'd say that all Thais refer to 'farang' as mun when talking about farang in general. Example "farang mun chawp poo ying peu dam" (like dark skinned girls.)

Got ya, so it's "mun", I won't forget that. I understand what you mean though about proper usage of the word.

I bet your glad you went to mediation too and that stopped you from carrying out your homicidal thoughts

Actually, I've heard it a couple of times by monks - not sure what to make of that.

Some monks use'rude' pronouns to refer to themselves. It's something to do with getting rid of the 'self'.

Yup, the nun last week explained that it's necessary to lose attachment to your ego, so I could see why Monks would self denigrate themselves using that word.

I pointed out to the Nun that I don't have an ego. I don't think she believed me.

Edited October 23, 2013 by theblether

[cpofc]

Being married to a Thai in Australia for a couple of decades I witnessed many things. I used to try and avoid Thai Social gatherings in Oz. There was always a party or social gathering going on somewhere, for something.

I have seen where it was actually like a 'competition' who could outdo each other in insulting and belittling their husband in a social environment. And I have to say it was almost always, without exception, the Ex bar girls who did it. Even to the extent of footing them up the arse while they were doing it. it was bloody awful to watch.

I told my wife more than once, when driving home, to not even THINK about ever doing that to me. Not that she would have. Fortunately we are talking only of a minority. A certain genre of Thai female.

Before the dreaded Poker Machines came into being where we lived in Australia the big thing used to be the Thai Card Schools. Playing 'Gop Daeng Gop Dam' for money. Some of these games were huge and one gme would go on for days at a time. Money in the center piles a foot high. Some wives used to disappear for days. Husbands would ring us looking for them. At most social gatherings, BBQs etc the girls would retreat indoors and get a game going. Most husbands forbade their wives gambling and would threaten all sorts of retribution. So the gullible fools looked on thinking they were playing for 'points'. The losers would go to the toilet and hide the money behind the cistern. Where the winner would then go and collect. Alot of money changed hands.

The introduction of Poker Machine and Bingo Halls ruined this part of Ex Pat Thai 'culture'.

One day a couple of Thai acquaintences of my wife coame over for a BBQ. With Australian husbands in tow. Us three blokes were outside, the girls inside, in the kitchen, as per usual. I got 3 beers and issued them around.

One of the wives, Rung, came out and saw John, her husband, with a stubbie of beer in front of him. She put her hands on her hips thrust out her jaw and gave him a fair dinkum tongue lashing about him having a beer. John just tried to smile and shrugged his shoulders.

Run then leant over and gave him two of the best left jabs to the jaw you would ever wish to see. Almost knocking him out. She then spun around and marched back inside slamming the door. Peter, the other bloke and I looked at each other dumbfounded hardly believing what we had just witnessed.

I saw alot of shit over the years. But it would be wrong to generalise. Being 'low class' is not uniquely Thai.

[harrry]

mun is not always an insult. it can be and with bargirls etc usually is. Between close friends it is an acceptible pronoun.

THe way to think of it is like the word..bast..d

You can call someone that and it can be a real insult or you can even make it appear worse by saying "You stupid bast..d" and if said by an Australian is quite acceptible.

[theblether]

mun is not always an insult. it can be and with bargirls etc usually is. Between close friends it is an acceptible pronoun.

THe way to think of it is like the word..bast..d

You can call someone that and it can be a real insult or you can even make it appear worse by saying "You stupid bast..d" and if said by an Australian is quite acceptible.

Safe to say that if a stranger says it to you there's no endearment involved?

@cpofc, very interesting.

[hookedondhamma]

Blether mate, this is something that has nearly driven me to homicide in the past.

I've heard it countless times in tourist areas in restaurants and bars and not always with bar girls.

I have been referred to as 'mun' many times.

But be careful it can be used 'politely'- it is often used affectionately with younger family members and used between friends implying a good friendship.

Here's what Thai people say - they refer to the third person as mun (มัน) when they are a lower status. Of course as foreigners we have no status. It usually implies that that they don't like the person.

Students call teachers mun because they don't like them.

However, it is still used in a very disrespectful/offensive/cowardly way too. It is understandable in some cases as there are lots of bloody stupid and sad cases of "farang" here.

Differentiation, attitude, and acceptance are the keys to happiness regarding this word, and indeed the "faarang" word for myself.

I'd say that all Thais refer to 'farang' as mun when talking about farang in general. Example "farang mun chawp poo ying peu dam" (like dark skinned girls.)

Got ya, so it's "mun", I won't forget that. I understand what you mean though about proper usage of the word.

I bet your glad you went to mediation too and that stopped you from carrying out your homicidal thoughts

Actually, I've heard it a couple of times by monks - not sure what to make of that.

Some monks use'rude' pronouns to refer to themselves. It's something to do with getting rid of the 'self'.

Hi Neeranam. If they use pronouns such as that they are probably speaking with other monks or playing around. Anything they use to refer to themselves still keeps the concept of 'self', so it would hardly help them extinguish the concept of self. It would take alot more effort for them to do as such, and if they told you that, they are probably just pulling your leg.

[hookedondhamma]

Blether mate, this is something that has nearly driven me to homicide in the past.

I've heard it countless times in tourist areas in restaurants and bars and not always with bar girls.

I have been referred to as 'mun' many times.

But be careful it can be used 'politely'- it is often used affectionately with younger family members and used between friends implying a good friendship.

Here's what Thai people say - they refer to the third person as mun (มัน) when they are a lower status. Of course as foreigners we have no status. It usually implies that that they don't like the person.

Students call teachers mun because they don't like them.

However, it is still used in a very disrespectful/offensive/cowardly way too. It is understandable in some cases as there are lots of bloody stupid and sad cases of "farang" here.

Differentiation, attitude, and acceptance are the keys to happiness regarding this word, and indeed the "faarang" word for myself.

I'd say that all Thais refer to 'farang' as mun when talking about farang in general. Example "farang mun chawp poo ying peu dam" (like dark skinned girls.)

Got ya, so it's "mun", I won't forget that. I understand what you mean though about proper usage of the word.

I bet your glad you went to mediation too and that stopped you from carrying out your homicidal thoughts

Actually, I've heard it a couple of times by monks - not sure what to make of that.

Some monks use'rude' pronouns to refer to themselves. It's something to do with getting rid of the 'self'.

Yup, the nun last week explained that it's necessary to lose attachment to your ego, so I could see why Monks would self denigrate themselves using that way.

I pointed out to the Nun that I don't have an ego. I don't think she believed me.

Necessary to lose attachment of course, but by using words as such that are considered wrong speech, it hardly does the trick, and just pounds the sense of self into the person even more.

Sometimes they'll use it just to keep the sense of fun amongst company. What is considered rude monks can sometimes get away with, especially if they're exceptionally good in the area of social skills.

[Bluetongue]

I'd have to say Neeranam in post 5 is pretty much spot on. I do get corrected occasionally for using this term but only for someone with relatively high status I think. It does get used to describe farangs and other groups in general almost as them or they and its as if it takes the place of the pronoun which I think is two or more words. Like a shortening of correct speech in common speech. Is it always derogatory as the Blether's friend suggest, don't think so, but if it's aimed directly at you probably.

[Neeranam]

Blether mate, this is something that has nearly driven me to homicide in the past.

I've heard it countless times in tourist areas in restaurants and bars and not always with bar girls.

I have been referred to as 'mun' many times.

But be careful it can be used 'politely'- it is often used affectionately with younger family members and used between friends implying a good friendship.

Here's what Thai people say - they refer to the third person as mun (มัน) when they are a lower status. Of course as foreigners we have no status. It usually implies that that they don't like the person.

Students call teachers mun because they don't like them.

However, it is still used in a very disrespectful/offensive/cowardly way too. It is understandable in some cases as there are lots of bloody stupid and sad cases of "farang" here.

Differentiation, attitude, and acceptance are the keys to happiness regarding this word, and indeed the "faarang" word for myself.

I'd say that all Thais refer to 'farang' as mun when talking about farang in general. Example "farang mun chawp poo ying peu dam" (like dark skinned girls.)

Got ya, so it's "mun", I won't forget that. I understand what you mean though about proper usage of the word.

I bet your glad you went to mediation too and that stopped you from carrying out your homicidal thoughts

Actually, I've heard it a couple of times by monks - not sure what to make of that.

Some monks use'rude' pronouns to refer to themselves. It's something to do with getting rid of the 'self'.

Hi Neeranam. If they use pronouns such as that they are probably speaking with other monks or playing around. Anything they use to refer to themselves still keeps the concept of 'self', so it would hardly help them extinguish the concept of self. It would take alot more effort for them to do as such, and if they told you that, they are probably just pulling your leg.

Ajarn Buddhadassa Bhikku uses "goo" for 'I' in some of his books.

[Neeranam]

My wife says 'mun keeow' often to me. This means something like I could just eat you up.

I say it to babies too.

thats different though, i always thought of it as a phrase, dont know the spelling, but seems to be pronounced differently

Yes, you are correct, it is a diffent tone and hence different spelling.

[richard_smith237]

I bo!!ocked my friends wife for referring to him as 'meun' (it)....

She is a lovely and honourable lady, well educated, runs her own successful business, but has a very common tongue...

I had to tell her that I'm offended at her use of the term meun when she was referring to her husband (and my friend), it looks both terrible on her and her husband.

Unfortunately I find her a little common and crass, lacks grace and this comes across in her language - its a shame as she is a lovely person, her common tongue is simply that, just common and when she refers to her husband as meun she doesn't mean anything by it. However, listeners or others over hearing her conversation will judge her, her husband and their relationship negatively and out of true character.

And for what its worth - My Wife was there and agreed that the use of 'meun' when referring to her husband was both shocking and despicable.

Edited October 23, 2013 by richard_smith237

[theblether]

I bo!!ocked my friends wife for referring to him as 'meun' (it)....

She is a lovely and honourable lady, well educated, runs her own successful business, but has a very common tongue...

I had to tell her that I'm offended at her use of the term meun when she was referring to her husband (and my friend), it looks both terrible on her and her husband.

Unfortunately I find her a little common and crass, lacks grace and this comes across in her language - its a shame as she is a lovely person, her common tongue is simply that, just common and when she refers to her husband as meun she doesn't mean anything by it. However, listeners or others over hearing her conversation will judge her, her husband and their relationship negatively and out of true character.

And for what its worth - My Wife was there and agreed that the use of 'meun' when referring to her husband was both shocking and despicable.

Good, my friend says that a couple of times it got too much for her and she made her feelings known. She told a story about a lovely young Thai couple on a day trip, who had hired a taxi for the day. The taxi drivers wife was there too and they were constantly referring to the younger Thais as "Mun" out of earshot.

My pal got sick of it as it was so undeserved, and pulled the taxi driver up. She did say there's times you just can't help your temper. Stunned silence followed. Good.

[FiftyTwo]

Yes,,,it taught you that you can only keep your mouth shut so long.

Most of the people I know refer to their partners rather politely when they are talking about them. They do however have little hesitation in teling people he cannot do something because he is old.

There are tablets to help with that.

[hookedondhamma]

Actually, I've heard it a couple of times by monks - not sure what to make of that.

Some monks use'rude' pronouns to refer to themselves. It's something to do with getting rid of the 'self'.

Hi Neeranam. If they use pronouns such as that they are probably speaking with other monks or playing around. Anything they use to refer to themselves still keeps the concept of 'self', so it would hardly help them extinguish the concept of self. It would take alot more effort for them to do as such, and if they told you that, they are probably just pulling your leg.

Ajarn Buddhadassa Bhikku uses "goo" for 'I' in some of his books.

Agreed, but he was far beyond the levels of practice in ordinary monks. Those who have attained have nothing to hold on to. And he certainly had nothing weighing him down anymore

Sorry if I hacked the quote system up, btw.

[FiftyTwo]

How do you say "it" in Thai? Is it "man"?

Is it true that it's used to refer to animals in the way explained to me? I think if I heard that I'd explode. I think most of us would.

Man (it) is the rude address when they are talking about you.

Mung (you) is the rude version when speaking directly to you.

Goo (I) is the rude form of address when speaking about yourself.

Aii is the rude version of mister. (so if your name is Tony, Aii Tony is an insult)

Eee is the rude version of miss/mrs. (so if your name is Charlotte, Eee Charlotte is an insult)

Wa is the rude ending of a sentence, replacing Ka or Kap (Krap)

Other versions of I .... Kaa (ancient), Kap-pa-jow (religious), Pom (polite male), Chan (polite female or friendly)

Edited October 23, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[richard_smith237]

I bo!!ocked my friends wife for referring to him as 'meun' (it)....

She is a lovely and honourable lady, well educated, runs her own successful business, but has a very common tongue...

I had to tell her that I'm offended at her use of the term meun when she was referring to her husband (and my friend), it looks both terrible on her and her husband.

Unfortunately I find her a little common and crass, lacks grace and this comes across in her language - its a shame as she is a lovely person, her common tongue is simply that, just common and when she refers to her husband as meun she doesn't mean anything by it. However, listeners or others over hearing her conversation will judge her, her husband and their relationship negatively and out of true character.

And for what its worth - My Wife was there and agreed that the use of 'meun' when referring to her husband was both shocking and despicable.

Good, my friend says that a couple of times it got too much for her and she made her feelings known. She told a story about a lovely young Thai couple on a day trip, who had hired a taxi for the day. The taxi drivers wife was there too and they were constantly referring to the younger Thais as "Mun" out of earshot.

My pal got sick of it as it was so undeserved, and pulled the taxi driver up. She did say there's times you just can't help your temper. Stunned silence followed. Good.

I'd have to add that she is one of the few Thai's I know who throws the 'falang' word around freely too...

Not to get into the Falang debate on this thread, the point here is that some people lack such social airs and graces that their crassness is grinding, kind of like sitting across from someone who's chewing their food with their mouth open, we can temporarily ignore it or choose to handle the situation.

[richard_smith237]

How do you say "it" in Thai? Is it "man"?

Is it true that it's used to refer to animals in the way explained to me? I think if I heard that I'd explode. I think most of us would.

Man (it) is the rude address when they are talking about you.

Mung (you) is the rude version when speaking directly to you.

Goo (I) is the rude form of address when speaking about yourself.

Aii is the rude version of mister. (so if your name is Tony, Aii Tony is an insult)

Eee is the rude version of miss/mrs. (so if your name is Charlotte, Eee Charlotte is an insult)

Wa is the rude ending of a sentence, replacing Ka or Kap (Krap)

All accurate - However an exception I've witnessed is with close friends in a pub environment, particularly the Aii and Eee and Wa, not so much the Man, Mung and Goo which is perhaps a step more crass or insulting.