It.....What An Insult?

[FiftyTwo]

Foreigners get confused by 'man' and 'mung', combine the two and get 'mun'.

[richard_smith237]

OK, I'll throw my tuppence in after consulting mrs mjj. She says that she uses that to describe me (aaaaarrrgghhh), but she uses to describe everyone that is a friend or family, except her mother and grandmother. Her analysis is that it is not an insult with those close to you - she uses it for other members of her family also. However, if you do not know the person or you are in a formal environment, it would not be a good word to use and it can be used as a slur.

From our discussion and trying to find an English equivalent, the closest I can think is using the word, 'she' or 'he' when that person is in the room - something my grandmother hated, ('she, who the cats mother. You know her name don't you!'.). It's not something endearing, but it is OK.

Some would call it snobbery... However, you can tell much of a persons education and social status by the way they use their language.

This obviously isn't as important to some as it is others, after all we are all taught to judge another person by who they are not what they are.

The frequent use of these terms in every day life lacks sophistication as does the explanation you have been provided with which dances over the truth that one persons experience and understanding does not necessarily mirror society.

You can be sure that Meun, Aii, Eee, wa etc are more extreme than simply not knowing someones name and using 'he', 'him', 'she' or 'her' instead of someones name when in proximity.

Meun - while not directly translatable is the term used for animals which is why its been adopted as a slur and in other cases a cheerful colloquialism.

To attempt an example in English it would be like excessive use of the F word... Now imagine how many people use the F word in every day conversation, in fact its used commonly throughout the UK and most of the time its not used with any offensive intent. That said, the use of the F word is unsophisticated . Of course, the use of the F word can also be a direct insult... Much in the same way 'Meun' (or Man as others have written it) is somewhat of a common term, lacking in sophistication when used in every day life, but when reserved for the pub amongst close friends is harmless.

[wileycoyote]

Good Grief !

You are right about the tempers !

[Melonade]

my wife is filipino. once when having dinner and drinks with our in-laws I said something like 'this one blah blah..'. at the time I was merely using the phrase for emphasis, and as a kind of term or endearment. it wasn't taken that way though..

tl;dr: don't use colloquial language in reference to your non-native english speaking spouse.

[GuestHouse]

People need to relax a little. This totally - totally - depends on context. The word 'man' - or ****Thai language removed**** - can be used very affectionately. But with anger, it is used as a derogatory term. For instance, mothers can use it - and do - to talk about their naughty two year olds while a drunken man about to enter a fight will also use it with another man he is about to punch. I have been here 16 years and I speak Thai pretty much fluent. I have never heard a woman use the term in a derogatory manner about their husband. I think the woman the OP is referring either doesn't understand the nuances of Thai or is exaggerating the issue. There.

Yes but also understand a foreigner with fluent Thai will both understand this and be able to determine if the terms are being used in an offensive manner.

As I have suggested, my own response has always been to politely let them know I have undrstood what they are saying.

This has is far better than launching into a verbal attack on several counts:

It will inevitably embarrass the person insulting you when they realise you understood what they said, if others overhear this then there is the added bonus of a loss of face and a double hit when they are corrected in their use of their own language by a well spoken foreigner

To contradict your own observation, I too am a fluent Thai speaker and, like TBL's friend, I have frequently heard these pejorative terms being used by Thai women discussin their foreign partners. But unlike TBL's friend I can also report frequently hearing these terms used by Thais when addressing or discussing foreigners.

[mikemac]

As usual it seems it is ok and acceptable to talk bad about Thai people but when the shoe is on the other foot............................... some of the foreigners I have met in Thailand deserve to be talked about like that. You reap what you sow !

[Tchooptip]

I'm pretty sure that if they found out they were being referred to as no better than a dog it would adjust their thoughts about their relationship.

Maybe if the "victims" would have adjusted their behaviour in the relationship this would not have happened ! (?)...reap what you sow is sometimes right.

[CharlieH]

Seems to me that once again "a little knowledge can be dangerous" . As can jumping to wrong conclusions and assumptions about a language or word or person come to that, that you dont fully understand.

[FiftyTwo]

As usual it seems it is ok and acceptable to talk bad about Thai people but when the shoe is on the other foot............................... some of the foreigners I have met in Thailand deserve to be talked about like that. You reap what you sow !

Nobody deserves to be talked about 'like that' by their wife or gf.

If they dislike you that much, they shouldn't get in bed with you.

[mjj]

OK, I'll throw my tuppence in after consulting mrs mjj. She says that she uses that to describe me (aaaaarrrgghhh), but she uses to describe everyone that is a friend or family, except her mother and grandmother. Her analysis is that it is not an insult with those close to you - she uses it for other members of her family also. However, if you do not know the person or you are in a formal environment, it would not be a good word to use and it can be used as a slur.

From our discussion and trying to find an English equivalent, the closest I can think is using the word, 'she' or 'he' when that person is in the room - something my grandmother hated, ('she, who the cats mother. You know her name don't you!'.). It's not something endearing, but it is OK.

Some would call it snobbery... However, you can tell much of a persons education and social status by the way they use their language.

This obviously isn't as important to some as it is others, after all we are all taught to judge another person by who they are not what they are.

The frequent use of these terms in every day life lacks sophistication as does the explanation you have been provided with which dances over the truth that one persons experience and understanding does not necessarily mirror society.

You can be sure that Meun, Aii, Eee, wa etc are more extreme than simply not knowing someones name and using 'he', 'him', 'she' or 'her' instead of someones name when in proximity.

Meun - while not directly translatable is the term used for animals which is why its been adopted as a slur and in other cases a cheerful colloquialism.

To attempt an example in English it would be like excessive use of the F word... Now imagine how many people use the F word in every day conversation, in fact its used commonly throughout the UK and most of the time its not used with any offensive intent. That said, the use of the F word is unsophisticated . Of course, the use of the F word can also be a direct insult... Much in the same way 'Meun' (or Man as others have written it) is somewhat of a common term, lacking in sophistication when used in every day life, but when reserved for the pub amongst close friends is harmless.

Yeah, that sounds about right. My wife certainly isn't hi-so but that is not to say she is lo-so either. :-) Your last sentence hits the nail on the head with regard to my wife's explanation.

[FiftyTwo]

Seems to me that once again "a little knowledge can be dangerous" . As can jumping to wrong conclusions and assumptions about a language or word or person come to that, that you dont fully understand.

Very rare to jump to a wrong conclusion in this sort of situation.

If you knew any Thai language, you would understand that.

A Thai doesn't talk like that in front of a person who doesn't fully understand.

[GuestHouse]

As usual it seems it is ok and acceptable to talk bad about Thai people but when the shoe is on the other foot............................... some of the foreigners I have met in Thailand deserve to be talked about like that. You reap what you sow !

We are discussing the use of deeply offensive terms by Thai people directed against foreigners who do not speak Thai or who the person who makes the response believes does not speak Thai.

In the light of this and your statement can you please point out where in this thread any of the respondents have made deeply derogatory remarks about Thais - or is your argument that some foreigners insult Thais so its acceptable for any Thai to insult any foreigner?

[Tchooptip]

How do you say "it" in Thai? Is it "man"?

Is it true that it's used to refer to animals in the way explained to me? I think if I heard that I'd explode. I think most of us would.

So those days in a temple were fruitless?

[GuestHouse]

Now all we need is someone to turn up and tell us these terms are not Thai language at all, but ancient Persian language terms offering deep respect to foreigners.

[mortenaa]

How do you say "it" in Thai? Is it "man"?

Is it true that it's used to refer to animals in the way explained to me? I think if I heard that I'd explode. I think most of us would.

Man (it) is the rude address when they are talking about you.

Mung (you) is the rude version when speaking directly to you.

Goo (I) is the rude form of address when speaking about yourself.

Aii is the rude version of mister. (so if your name is Tony, Aii Tony is an insult)

Eee is the rude version of miss/mrs. (so if your name is Charlotte, Eee Charlotte is an insult)

Wa is the rude ending of a sentence, replacing Ka or Kap (Krap)

Other versions of I .... Kaa (ancient), Kap-pa-jow (religious), Pom (polite male), Chan (polite female or friendly)

rude? Depends on how u use it. Most of the times it informal, or also in a used in a humorous way.

[MJP]

Now all we need is someone to turn up and tell us these terms are not Thai language at all, but ancient Persian language terms offering deep respect to foreigners.

These terms are not Thai language at all but ancient Persian language phrases offering deep respect to foreigners.

Edited October 23, 2013 by MJP

[SOTIRIOS]

...I have see it with my own eyes...not only wives....this is nationwide......

...if you tell others (foreigners they say you are paranoid or negative....

...if you confront the Thais...they deny it and say you heard wrong.....

....'Vileland'........the lies, hatred, resentment...are palpable...nauseating....

...I am trying to stick it out for my daughters......besides, we have no options to leave right now...and may never if their psycho mother and her clan and assorted gangs get their way...

...it is some sick game for them to win...with all the odds stacked against us....

...my daughters are trophies...possessions....objects...'spoils'....to have...keep...control....

...and to eventually corrupt and turn them into one of their own......

....my burden is great...greatly outnumbered...all assets gone....(you know the story)....

[MJP]

...I have see it with my own eyes...not only wives....this is nationwide......

...if you tell others (foreigners they say you are paranoid or negative....

...if you confront the Thais...they deny it and say you heard wrong.....

....'Vileland'........the lies, hatred, resentment...are palpable...nauseating....

...I am trying to stick it out for my daughters......besides, we have no options to leave right now...and may never if their psycho mother and her clan and assorted gangs get their way...

...it is some sick game for them to win...with all the odds stacked against us....

...my daughters are trophies...possessions....objects...'spoils'....to have...keep...control....

...and to eventually corrupt and turn them into one of their own......

....my burden is great...greatly outnumbered...all assets gone....(you know the story)....

Hang in there Brother. I've been there. It really is a whole world of hurt.

[CharlieH]

Seems to me that once again "a little knowledge can be dangerous" . As can jumping to wrong conclusions and assumptions about a language or word or person come to that, that you dont fully understand.

Very rare to jump to a wrong conclusion in this sort of situation.

If you knew any Thai language, you would understand that.

A Thai doesn't talk like that in front of a person who doesn't fully understand.

You dont make sense ! Surely the point here is that they ARE talking like that in front of someone who clearly DOESNT understand ! And thats exactly why they do it, safe in the knowledge the individual doesnt know.

[BuriramRes]

It doesn't just happen in Thailand.

A good friend of mine, who is Swiss/German & has lived in England for most of her life told me about a similar situation.

She was on a public bus, somewhere in the UK & a couple of German ladies got on & sat right across from her.

After a while they started talking about my friend (in German). This continued for quite some time.

Finally my friend got off the bus and as she left she spoke to these two ladies, in perfect German. She did not wait for a reply!!

[GuestHouse]

Seems to me that once again "a little knowledge can be dangerous" . As can jumping to wrong conclusions and assumptions about a language or word or person come to that, that you dont fully understand.

Very rare to jump to a wrong conclusion in this sort of situation.

If you knew any Thai language, you would understand that.

A Thai doesn't talk like that in front of a person who doesn't fully understand.

You dont make sense ! Surely the point here is that they ARE talking like that in front of someone who clearly DOESNT understand ! And thats exactly why they do it, safe in the knowledge the individual doesnt know.

It does make sense when the they ARE talking like that in front of someone who they clearly BELEIVE DOESN'T understand! And that's exactly why they do, BELEIVING themselves safe in the FALSE BELIEF that the individual doesn't understand.

Edited October 23, 2013 by GuestHouse

[GuestHouse]

To be fair, I have on a number of occasions witnessed Thai wives/ girlfriends rebuke their fellow Thais who have used such terms against their foreign husband/boyfriend.

[godden]

many years ago bar at nana plaza thai lady says to thai lady who pay "man jai" looked to see an old falang smiling. there all <deleted>

[Zumteufel]

...

I'd say that all Thais refer to 'farang' as mun when talking about farang in general. Example "farang mun chawp poo ying peu dam" (farang they like dark skinned girls.)

What you write as "mun" and "dam" is the same short open A in Thai. I believe it should be "man" instead? The "u" sound like "cup" in english is no way near that open A sound, more like in "Chorp" or "Chawp" as you write it. I've seen it other places, but isn't it wrong?

[slipperylobster]

...

I'd say that all Thais refer to 'farang' as mun when talking about farang in general. Example "farang mun chawp poo ying peu dam" (farang they like dark skinned girls.)

What you write as "mun" and "dam" is the same short open A in Thai. I believe it should be "man" instead? The "u" sound like "cup" in english is no way near that open A sound, more like in "Chorp" or "Chawp" as you write it. I've seen it other places, but isn't it wrong?

thats ok...if they call me "it" then i say..."Excuse me Ma dam?" ...a good retort. and you can just say you were being polite...lol. The other Thai's will giggle at her.

[flyingdoc]

This is something that I have suspected for quite some time.

I suppose I should begin to learn Thai, and keep quiet about it until I am forced to come out with it in my defence!!

[harryfrompattaya]

Here are a few facts that some of you may not be aware of:

Thais look down on Thai women who have farang boyfriends or husbands old enough to be their father’s or grandfather’s.

They look down on the farang vest wearing, short wearing and flip flop wearing slobs seen walking about in public places, other than on a beach.

They frown upon the slutty Thai women types seen walking Hand in hand with some tattooed, hair shaven, stubble growthed wife beater vest wearing farang low life.

They frown upon elderly white haired, pony tailed, white bearded, tattooed, fat bellied farangs who believe that once they arrive in Thailand, they suddenly become and appear 30 years younger and dress like 20 year olds.

If you fit into any of the categories above, then you should expect criticisms and the Thais to have a low opinion of you, otherwise, yes, they are being rude and insulting.

Awesome post.

Wow good to known how perfect Thai's are?

Edited October 23, 2013 by harryfrompattaya

[myluckythai]

Same shit Different day! Only a weak person who is not sure about himself can be insulted by a small mind! BTW did nothing else in the wives behaviour alarm you that she is a BIATCH?????

Edited October 23, 2013 by myluckythai

[JLCrab]

So I guess that insulting in front of the stupid farang doesn't happen much if the Thai wife/GF doesn't speak English as the the other Thai busy-bodies wouldn't then assume the farang doesn't speak or understand Thai ... or someth'n

[boone57]

Ah, the joy of learning paa saa Thai. Ugly (naa gliat) is another word to sharpen your ears for. Fat (uan) and stink ("men" with a decending tone) are a couple more. I am American and I once heard a gal refer to 9/11 in a condicending way. I did not let on but I did make sure it was exactly 9:11 pm when my dick slammed into the north side of her face.