Pheu Thai Party prepares alternative if Amnesty Bill is rejected

[webfact]

Pheu Thai Party prepares alternative if Amnesty Bill is rejected
By English News



BANGKOK, Oct 24 – Pheu Thai leader Charupong Ruangsuwan said the ruling party was determined to pass the Amnesty Bill into law and, if it failed, the alternative was to issue a royal decree to fulfill the party’s desire.

Mr Charupong, concurrently interior minister, said a “war room” would be set up to closely monitor social movements against the Amnesty Bill.

The bill, which has already passed the first reading in the House of Representatives, is being debated by the House scrutiny committee after which it will be re-submitted to the Lower House for the third or final reading.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra gave assurances that the highly-cricitised legislation would not affect the government’s stability and called on opponents to hold their demonstrations peacefully.

She said the House of Representatives, which is obliged to debate the bill, should find resolution for the country in light of different opinions towards the bill in Thai society.

Supachai Jaisamut, Bhumjaithai Party-list MP, said there were different opinions regarding the original Amnesty Bill, proposed by Pheu Thai MP Vorachai Hema, and the scrutinised version.

According to the House scrutiny committee, all cases being investigated by the Assets Examination Committee would be nullified, he said.

He said the revised version would benefit not only ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra but also Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva and his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban.

He said Mr Vorachai’s original bill proposes pardon for political offenders, excluding commanders and core leaders, between September 19, 2006 and May 10, 2011, while the scrutinised version changes the pardoned period from September 19, 2006 to August 8, 2013.

The pardon also covers suspects identified with independent organisations, he said.

Mr Supachai did not elaborate his party’s stand on the controversy. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-10-24

[gl555]

The lengths these people will go to bring back their beloved leader and paymaster! I am so impressed by their hard work ethic and never say die attitude! I mean once they get paid, they'll just do anything for you. Bravo PTP!

[centrala]

BANGKOK, Oct 24 Pheu Thai leader Charupong Ruangsuwan said the ruling party was determined to pass the Amnesty Bill into law and, if it failed, the alternative was to issue a royal decree to fulfill the partys desire.

How extremely presumptive of them to assume that it would be signed off on.

[gemini81]

If it fails, how about incarcerating these plundering crooks for treason and not defending nor respecting the laws which already exist and should be upheld.

[ratcatcher]

I expect DL is getting very impatient. We are nearly at the end of October, leaving 2 months for the triumphant return of

the president of Thakland.

December is a time of celebration for Thais and also farangs. There may be even more celebrations if everything goes to plan.

[Robby nz]

So they are going to do it anyway regardless of what anyone else says, wants or does.

Democracy : for the people by the people.

PT democracy : for Thaksin by PT.

[bubblegum]

I'm not sure but isn't this exactly as was discussed by Taksin and some other bloke over the phone, that call that was taped? Or am I totally mistaken?

[Thaddeus]

Isn't saying that you will issue a Royal Decree when that isn't anywhere near your power an act of treason?

[Kerryd]

Yeah, considering one of the reasons for the "coup" was that a certain person (I won't mention Thaksin by name) was suspected of trying to replace someone else as the most beloved person in Thailand. I don't think that person would be willing to sign off on an amnesty any time soon.

They would be better off just revising the existing laws against corruption, making it perfectly legal to do. Then they could have certain convictions over turned, certain criminals would have their convictions erased and be free to return (and get all their stolen rightfully-earned loot back) and it's something that pretty much all politicians in Thailand would back !

[AleG]

The pardon also covers suspects identified with independent organisations, he said.

I suppose that would include the matter pursued by the Ombudsman of a certain passport illegally issued by the PTP government, among other things, right?

[WhizBang]

Wait, wait, wait. ANYONE can issue a royal decree?

Being a ROYAL decree, I would have thought ONLY the King could issue it. Am I missing something here?

[Local Drunk]

Wait, wait, wait. ANYONE can issue a royal decree?

Being a ROYAL decree, I would have thought ONLY the King could issue it. Am I missing something here?

I'm guessing this is defining a Royal Decree.

Emergency Decree or Royal Proclamation - this is made by the King, upon the advice of the Cabinet, where an urgent law is needed for national security, public safety, national economic stability or avert a public calamity. An example is the Emergency Decree on Public Administration in Emergency Situation BE 2548 (AD 2005).

[Neilly]

BANGKOK, Oct 24 – Pheu Thai leader Charupong Ruangsuwan said the ruling party was determined to pass the Amnesty Bill into law and, if it failed, the alternative was to issue a royal decree to fulfill the party’s Thaksin Shinawatra's desire.

As it should have read

[siampolee]

BANGKOK, Oct 24 – Pheu Thai leader Charupong Ruangsuwan said the ruling party was determined to pass the Amnesty Bill into law and, if it failed, the alternative was to issue a royal decree to fulfill the party’s desire.

The quote above without a doubt confirms the state of Thaksins puppets who like Thaksin indeed do have many faceted minds.

There is but one person in Thailand who is able to issue a ''Royal Decree'' and I am certain that it is not within the realm of the P.T.P. puppets to state that they will make that decree.

It is interesting that this statement has been made, who authorized it who one must ask who worded it ?

This can only be seen as a sinister move by these puppets and no doubt at the puppet masters behest, now at last it seems as if the real aim of and the game plan of Thaksin is revealed for all to see.

Again we see the lengths that Thaksin is willing to go to achieve his delusional plans , the destruction of a national institution, civil strife along with destroying what currently passes for democracy in this country.

Power for me Thaksin alone at any price and to hell with the consequences of my pursuit of absolute power.

[monkeycountry]

"He said the revised version would benefit not only ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra but also Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva and his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban."

As always a really poor argument. Abhisit neither wants nor needs an amnesty, so this must be the worst bargaining chip in history. In fact, if Abhisit is smart, he rejects the amnesty (if possible) and insists on fighting his case in court. The court, even under PTP rule, will eventually prove him not guilty, which both Abhisit and the PTP knows, and then noone can say that he was simply saved by an amnesty!

[PeterSmiles]

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra gave assurances that the highly-cricitised legislation would not affect the government’s stability

She might be right this time, because I have such a feeling that if the bill is passed that there will be no government anymore to have it's stability affected.

[h90]

If it fails, how about incarcerating these plundering crooks for treason and not defending nor respecting the laws which already exist and should be upheld.

And who should do that?

Specially as the general population is ready to vote anyone who pays them 500 Baht.

And the red mob can threaten judges openly without any comment from police or military.

Even at the demonstrations....how many people are upset...a few thousands only.

It is more likely that the government set up red courts and jail the others for treason (other countries did such things, so it is not that improbable).

[monkeycountry]

There is a risk the PTP can push through any bill in parliament. The only thing stopping this is the opposition by the red shirts who do not want an amnesty for the generals and Abhisit. However, I truly hope the PTP end up issuing a royal decree, as I can almost guarantee that HM the King will neither sign it nor reject it, but simply ignore it, which will be a giant slap in PTP/Yingluck's face. And with a bit of luck, Thais will see the attempt to involve HM the King as offensive!

[tomross46]

I expect DL is getting very impatient. We are nearly at the end of October, leaving 2 months for the triumphant return of

the president of Thakland.

December is a time of celebration for Thais and also farangs. There may be even more celebrations if everything goes to plan.

Are you talking bout the remark made by Police Captain Chalerm, that if Thaksin did not return by December this year, he would have his head cut off?

[Stradavarius37]

You guys take your own opinions far too seriously lol

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[jonclark]

 

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra gave assurances that the highly-cricitised legislation would not affect the government’s stability

She might be right this time, because I have such a feeling that if the bill is passed that there will be no government anymore to have it's stability affected.

 

Have to agree. There does seem an increasing level of desperation to try to get this passed. So one must wonder that despite the facade of calm that Yingluck tries to present, just how much turmoil is going on behind the scenes. The anecdotal evidence of a government popularity in decline (through polls), widespread agricultural demonstrations (maize, tapioca, rubber farmers), increasing public and household debt, a slowing economy, increasing political discontent amoungst the people both in pro and anti government camps, industrial confidence in the economy falling, and a number of highly prominent figures being very critical of the rice scheme, a smaller scale repeat of the flooding and a 2 trillion baht loan that is highly questionable, combined with widespread allegations of corruption at all levels of government, as well as a failure to deliver on it school tablets promise (in part). There doesn't seem to be much good cheer for YL.

The government is leaping from one damage limitation exercise to another and questions need to be asked just how long this lame government can continue, or if PTP wants it to continue.

My expectation is they ram this amnesty through as quick as possible and be dammed with the consequences, call an election immediately after it passes (within 1 month), YL steps down and another Shinawatra takes over (the ugly elder sister) and then go for broke trying to get back in even if there majority is severely reduced, hopefully with Taksin there to rouse the masses into a PTP vote.

It seems the only logical way forward for PTP out of this mess. Although what they do if and when they are returned to power remains to be seen as they have already make a balls of the whole situation and if past actions are an indicator of future actions expect the same problems but bigger and more frequently.

[fab4]

BANGKOK, Oct 24 – Pheu Thai leader Charupong Ruangsuwan said the ruling party was determined to pass the Amnesty Bill into law and, if it failed, the alternative was to issue a royal decree to fulfill the party’s desire.

The quote above without a doubt confirms the state of Thaksins puppets who like Thaksin indeed do have many faceted minds.

There is but one person in Thailand who is able to issue a ''Royal Decree'' and I am certain that it is not within the realm of the P.T.P. puppets to state that they will make that decree.

It is interesting that this statement has been made, who authorized it who one must ask who worded it ?

This can only be seen as a sinister move by these puppets and no doubt at the puppet masters behest, now at last it seems as if the real aim of and the game plan of Thaksin is revealed for all to see.

Again we see the lengths that Thaksin is willing to go to achieve his delusional plans , the destruction of a national institution, civil strife along with destroying what currently passes for democracy in this country.

Power for me Thaksin alone at any price and to hell with the consequences of my pursuit of absolute power.

You never cease to amaze me how you take a simple statement of fact and then it enters your "multi faceted mind" and comes out as yet another Thaksin/PTP conspiracy theory.

Who do you think writes a royal decree?

[waza]

 

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra gave assurances that the highly-cricitised legislation would not affect the government’s stability

She might be right this time, because I have such a feeling that if the bill is passed that there will be no government anymore to have it's stability affected.

 

Have to agree. There does seem an increasing level of desperation to try to get this passed. So one must wonder that despite the facade of calm that Yingluck tries to present, just how much turmoil is going on behind the scenes. The anecdotal evidence of a government popularity in decline (through polls), widespread agricultural demonstrations (maize, tapioca, rubber farmers), increasing public and household debt, a slowing economy, increasing political discontent amoungst the people both in pro and anti government camps, industrial confidence in the economy falling, and a number of highly prominent figures being very critical of the rice scheme, a smaller scale repeat of the flooding and a 2 trillion baht loan that is highly questionable, combined with widespread allegations of corruption at all levels of government, as well as a failure to deliver on it school tablets promise (in part). There doesn't seem to be much good cheer for YL.

The government is leaping from one damage limitation exercise to another and questions need to be asked just how long this lame government can continue, or if PTP wants it to continue.

My expectation is they ram this amnesty through as quick as possible and be dammed with the consequences, call an election immediately after it passes (within 1 month), YL steps down and another Shinawatra takes over (the ugly elder sister) and then go for broke trying to get back in even if there majority is severely reduced, hopefully with Taksin there to rouse the masses into a PTP vote.

It seems the only logical way forward for PTP out of this mess. Although what they do if and when they are returned to power remains to be seen as they have already make a balls of the whole situation and if past actions are an indicator of future actions expect the same problems but bigger and more frequently.

That sounds about right, but if he can get the amnesty bill through he can stand as PM, with his original cabinet behind him. Then, if they can ram through the section 109 change, his temple for oil and gas reserves deal with Hun Sen, can be finalised. Plus if the elect all senators bill get through then he can fill the senate with his family and friends and have total control over all facets of government.

Edited October 24, 2013 by waza

[billd766]

BANGKOK, Oct 24 – Pheu Thai leader Charupong Ruangsuwan said the ruling party was determined to pass the Amnesty Bill into law and, if it failed, the alternative was to issue a royal decree to fulfill the party’s desire.

The quote above without a doubt confirms the state of Thaksins puppets who like Thaksin indeed do have many faceted minds.

There is but one person in Thailand who is able to issue a ''Royal Decree'' and I am certain that it is not within the realm of the P.T.P. puppets to state that they will make that decree.

It is interesting that this statement has been made, who authorized it who one must ask who worded it ?

This can only be seen as a sinister move by these puppets and no doubt at the puppet masters behest, now at last it seems as if the real aim of and the game plan of Thaksin is revealed for all to see.

Again we see the lengths that Thaksin is willing to go to achieve his delusional plans , the destruction of a national institution, civil strife along with destroying what currently passes for democracy in this country.

Power for me Thaksin alone at any price and to hell with the consequences of my pursuit of absolute power.

You never cease to amaze me how you take a simple statement of fact and then it enters your "multi faceted mind" and comes out as yet another Thaksin/PTP conspiracy theory.

Who do you think writes a royal decree?

Royal decrees are normally written by the Royal Household which is why oddly enough they are called Royal Decrees.

Who do YOU think is the only person who can sign it off?

[jonclark]

 

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra gave assurances that the highly-cricitised legislation would not affect the government’s stability

She might be right this time, because I have such a feeling that if the bill is passed that there will be no government anymore to have it's stability affected.

 

Have to agree. There does seem an increasing level of desperation to try to get this passed. So one must wonder that despite the facade of calm that Yingluck tries to present, just how much turmoil is going on behind the scenes. The anecdotal evidence of a government popularity in decline (through polls), widespread agricultural demonstrations (maize, tapioca, rubber farmers), increasing public and household debt, a slowing economy, increasing political discontent amoungst the people both in pro and anti government camps, industrial confidence in the economy falling, and a number of highly prominent figures being very critical of the rice scheme, a smaller scale repeat of the flooding and a 2 trillion baht loan that is highly questionable, combined with widespread allegations of corruption at all levels of government, as well as a failure to deliver on it school tablets promise (in part). There doesn't seem to be much good cheer for YL.

The government is leaping from one damage limitation exercise to another and questions need to be asked just how long this lame government can continue, or if PTP wants it to continue.

My expectation is they ram this amnesty through as quick as possible and be dammed with the consequences, call an election immediately after it passes (within 1 month), YL steps down and another Shinawatra takes over (the ugly elder sister) and then go for broke trying to get back in even if there majority is severely reduced, hopefully with Taksin there to rouse the masses into a PTP vote.

It seems the only logical way forward for PTP out of this mess. Although what they do if and when they are returned to power remains to be seen as they have already make a balls of the whole situation and if past actions are an indicator of future actions expect the same problems but bigger and more frequently.

That sounds about right, but if he can get the amnesty bill through he can stand as PM, with his original cabinet behind him. Then, if they can ram through the section 109 change, his temple for oil and gas reserves deal with Hun Sen, can be finalised. Plus if the elect all senators bill get through then he can fill the senate with his family and friends and have total control over all facets of government.

The only wild card in the pack. Is the Thai public. Will enough of them be swayed to give PTP a good enough mandate after the next election. Things haven't worked out as many PTP voters were promised. If the opposition can gets it act together - and a well worded, sincere and public apology by Abhisit for the events of 2010 would go a long way to making it a closer race than PTP mught want.

My gut feeling is Taksin isn't as big a draw as he likes to think he is.

[waza]

 

She might be right this time, because I have such a feeling that if the bill is passed that there will be no government anymore to have it's stability affected.

 

Have to agree. There does seem an increasing level of desperation to try to get this passed. So one must wonder that despite the facade of calm that Yingluck tries to present, just how much turmoil is going on behind the scenes. The anecdotal evidence of a government popularity in decline (through polls), widespread agricultural demonstrations (maize, tapioca, rubber farmers), increasing public and household debt, a slowing economy, increasing political discontent amoungst the people both in pro and anti government camps, industrial confidence in the economy falling, and a number of highly prominent figures being very critical of the rice scheme, a smaller scale repeat of the flooding and a 2 trillion baht loan that is highly questionable, combined with widespread allegations of corruption at all levels of government, as well as a failure to deliver on it school tablets promise (in part). There doesn't seem to be much good cheer for YL.

The government is leaping from one damage limitation exercise to another and questions need to be asked just how long this lame government can continue, or if PTP wants it to continue.

My expectation is they ram this amnesty through as quick as possible and be dammed with the consequences, call an election immediately after it passes (within 1 month), YL steps down and another Shinawatra takes over (the ugly elder sister) and then go for broke trying to get back in even if there majority is severely reduced, hopefully with Taksin there to rouse the masses into a PTP vote.

It seems the only logical way forward for PTP out of this mess. Although what they do if and when they are returned to power remains to be seen as they have already make a balls of the whole situation and if past actions are an indicator of future actions expect the same problems but bigger and more frequently.

That sounds about right, but if he can get the amnesty bill through he can stand as PM, with his original cabinet behind him. Then, if they can ram through the section 109 change, his temple for oil and gas reserves deal with Hun Sen, can be finalised. Plus if the elect all senators bill get through then he can fill the senate with his family and friends and have total control over all facets of government.

The only wild card in the pack. Is the Thai public. Will enough of them be swayed to give PTP a good enough mandate after the next election. Things haven't worked out as many PTP voters were promised. If the opposition can gets it act together - and a well worded, sincere and public apology by Abhisit for the events of 2010 would go a long way to making it a closer race than PTP mught want.

My gut feeling is Taksin isn't as big a draw as he likes to think he is.

I agree but my gut feeling is, another Thaksin proxy government is doomed. But a Thaksin led government with all your old favourites from the TRT, PPP and PTP and a big war chest to spend would be the favourite.

Edited October 24, 2013 by waza

[Baerboxer]

I'm not sure but isn't this exactly as was discussed by Taksin and some other bloke over the phone, that call that was taped? Or am I totally mistaken?

I recall similar to you. Big T was suggesting how all this could be manipulated to get him amnesty on that tape.

This is scary stuff - if he's back and in full control then Thailand will simply become his and his clan's fiefdom. Dictator's have to screw the people and the country to raise the funds to pay off all the "loyal supporters" at the trough.

Wonder if Obama, Cameron, Merkel et al will recognize this as a process of democracy, or what it really is. A bought and paid for government trying to change the law to whitewash the criminal whose in charge, bring him back and give him even more power than he had before.

I guess few countries in AEC are really a democracy, so the clan won't be worrying about fitting in.

[indyuk]

If it fails, how about incarcerating these plundering crooks for treason and not defending nor respecting the laws which already exist and should be upheld.

You have an amazing imagination young man. The fact is that the 21st century arrived 13 years ago and Thailand is flying on new Warp engines. As for calling the current "government plundering crooks that don't respect the law" I suggest that you avail yourself of a new crystal ball and dispense with your mirror mirror on the wall adjudication panel.

Edited October 24, 2013 by indyuk

[Robby nz]

The only wild card in the pack. Is the Thai public. Will enough of them be swayed to give PTP a good enough mandate after the next election. Things haven't worked out as many PTP voters were promised. If the opposition can gets it act together - and a well worded, sincere and public apology by Abhisit for the events of 2010 would go a long way to making it a closer race than PTP mught want.

My gut feeling is Taksin isn't as big a draw as he likes to think he is.

You are mostly right Jonclark but I do have to wonder what you think Abhisit has to give an apology for.

In 2010 he only did what he was forced to do by law to contain and finally end the red riots.

Unfortunately the lie has been told so often that now we have the press talking about "bloody crackdowns causing 90 deaths"

Which of course is not true.

Many of the deaths came well before he needed to clear out the reds because of their refusal to leave even after they had been offered what they had been demanding, early elections.

The Thaksin and tax payer funded PT PR machine has done such a wonderful job of fudging and smearing in red everything that happened in 2010 that the truth is being well obscured.

The saddest part is that it is now being taught in red schools which is perpetuating the hate into the next generation.

I suspect any apology he did make that would be acceptable to PT their boss and the reds would be taken as an admission of guilt and he would be vilified even more.

An apology by him would also be taken as absolving those really responsible, the red leaders and Thaksin the paymaster and instigator of the whole mess.

Thaksin and the red leaders are the ones who are pushing for and really need this amnesty for themselves.

Abhisit and company have said they don't need or want it.

[jonclark]

The only wild card in the pack. Is the Thai public. Will enough of them be swayed to give PTP a good enough mandate after the next election. Things haven't worked out as many PTP voters were promised. If the opposition can gets it act together - and a well worded, sincere and public apology by Abhisit for the events of 2010 would go a long way to making it a closer race than PTP mught want.

My gut feeling is Taksin isn't as big a draw as he likes to think he is.

You are mostly right Jonclark but I do have to wonder what you think Abhisit has to give an apology for.

In 2010 he only did what he was forced to do by law to contain and finally end the red riots.

Unfortunately the lie has been told so often that now we have the press talking about "bloody crackdowns causing 90 deaths"

Which of course is not true.

Many of the deaths came well before he needed to clear out the reds because of their refusal to leave even after they had been offered what they had been demanding, early elections.

The Thaksin and tax payer funded PT PR machine has done such a wonderful job of fudging and smearing in red everything that happened in 2010 that the truth is being well obscured.

The saddest part is that it is now being taught in red schools which is perpetuating the hate into the next generation.

I suspect any apology he did make that would be acceptable to PT their boss and the reds would be taken as an admission of guilt and he would be vilified even more.

An apology by him would also be taken as absolving those really responsible, the red leaders and Thaksin the paymaster and instigator of the whole mess.

Thaksin and the red leaders are the ones who are pushing for and really need this amnesty for themselves.

Abhisit and company have said they don't need or want it.

An Abhisit apology would i think derail the amnesty bill.

As on one hand (with an apology) you would have the reds chomping at the bit, wanting justice, to be delivered under a PTP government and on the other his honesty would win him support in those important 'undecided voters' which there are alot of.

So would PTP plough on with the blanket amnesty in the face of an apology and risk very serious divisions with the UDD (Similar to the Dems - PAD split), As his apology will be spun as an admission of guilt by the reds and to have this admission steamrolled by the people the UDD fought for, for the "greater good" would have very serious ramifications that PTP could not control

or; Give a blanket amnesty, but exclude Abhisit, which has a number of complex possible outcomes: But simply put excluding Abhist would not 'reset' Thailand as the political tension would remain, there would be a court case possibly which would create very entrenched sides - in a possible election year. Yes. Taksin may well come back, but he would be coming back to very loud calls of 'double standards'. Although i'd imagine the irony would be lost on him.

But more importantly by excluding Abhisit it would make the amnesty ALL about Taksin as he would be seen as the key beneficiary in all media outlets for obvious reasons and the government would have to fight a superb rearguard action in order to survive as the argument about resetting the political clock would be doomed and unworkable.

My money is 100% on a blanket amnesty, which is why an Abhisit apology (not a legal admission, how ever is it spun) would i think very seriously upset the PTP apple cart, as PTP could be driven into conflict with the UDD.

Edited October 24, 2013 by jonclark