No new accounts at TMB for Americans

[Frank James]

We (USA) used to be the "good guys". Now, everybody seems to hate us. The latest insult: Forbes listing KGB Arch-Runt Putin as the world's most pweful, most influential man. Obama kicked down to number two.

Oh yes, the topic! Try Bangkok Bank. They are easy to get along with. Branches and ATM's all over. They will take your money.

Doesn't TMB stand for Thai Military Bank? I just heard that the other day.

[ggt]

I use to bank at TMB...sold a condo...tried to send money back to home bank...they gave me the run around for several days...

They never did answer...how much can I send back to my US bank...without having to run down all the bank's paper requirements...which included...getting the new condo owner...to provide me with his signed documents from the land bank...

In frustration...moved money to Bangkok Bank...was able to send fairly large chucks of cash back to US...without all the hassle...people at BB were very nice and cooperative...

Thanks BB

[HUAHIN62]

Take it up with your government not your bank. Your bank are there to keep your money save, not to do the work of your government.

[thaibook]

FATCA is a means for the US intelligence community to obtain data on all transactions without having to request additional budget for spyware in all banks' computers. It even allows them to obtain information from banks that still use paper and pen.

[sabaii69]

What next? No service in bars? It will certainly be much quieter.

It would be really quiet if drunken aussies stayed home.

[oneday]

I think the Thai banks are getting paranoid over the reporting requirement. If you look at the reporting requirements for the taxpayer, if you are single, you have to report on Form 8938 the total value of all assets over $200,000.00 at the end of the year or assets of $300,000.00 anytime during the year. Joint accounts are $400,000.00 and $600,000.00 respectively. There is a reporting threshold of $50,000.00 which I can't understand as it differs from the higher amounts.

As I am single, I would have to have over 6 million baht in financial institutions here in Thailand. I can't ever conceive of any day having 6 million baht. Anyone who is having a problem with opening an account should talk to someone about the reporting requirement amounts. The summary of FATCA reporting for US taxpayers is available from the IRS web site.

Yeah, many of us don't have to worry about that form, but all Americans are supposed to report all interest income on TD F 90-22.1. You must state your highest balance during the year and convert your interest income based on the exchange rate on Dec 31 of the tax year on the following website.

http://www.fms.treas.gov/intn.html

I've been doing that for the last two years, but probably could have told them to shove it. That's why these new reporting requirements are going into effect. Once BKK starts reporting then the IRS will have something to check my return against. It would be interesting to know the story about how the good old US bullied the Thai government into accepting this reporting requirement that has nothing to do with Thailand. I'm sure there is no reciprocal agreement or not much for Thailand to gain from a reciprocal agreement.

Edited October 31, 2013 by oneday

[Sophon]

Most need not be concerned. These are the rules:

<snipped>

You are missing the point.

FATCA means that Thai banks constantly have to monitor accounts of all Americans to determine whether reporting is required or not. Rather than developing expensive software or labour intensive manual processes to live up to to the U.S. requirements, some Thai banks will instead choose not to have American customers. So this concerns all Americans who need to have a Thai bank account, not only those who hold balances over the threshold that triggers the reporting.

Sophon

Edited October 31, 2013 by Sophon

[fletchsmile]

I think the Thai banks are getting paranoid over the reporting requirement. If you look at the reporting requirements for the taxpayer, if you are single, you have to report on Form 8938 the total value of all assets over $200,000.00 at the end of the year or assets of $300,000.00 anytime during the year. Joint accounts are $400,000.00 and $600,000.00 respectively. There is a reporting threshold of $50,000.00 which I can't understand as it differs from the higher amounts.

As I am single, I would have to have over 6 million baht in financial institutions here in Thailand. I can't ever conceive of any day having 6 million baht. Anyone who is having a problem with opening an account should talk to someone about the reporting requirement amounts. The summary of FATCA reporting for US taxpayers is available from the IRS web site.

I think you're seriously underestimating the work that needs to go on behind the scenes to comply with this. Take a look at say Deloitte's FAQs and their website:

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/dcom-unitedstates/local%20assets/documents/tax/us_tax_fatca_faqs_061711.pdf

http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_us/us/930c9948e681a210VgnVCM100000ba42f00aRCRD.htm

Imagine say a financial group including a bank, brokerage and insurance company operating in 100 countries, as per FAQ 40 and 41 they need to aggregate balances across all those different businesses and countries which will often use different systems.

It's not just balances either, but interest payments, dividends.

Look at FAQ 5

Changes are already impacting and causing hassles for non-Americans. eg every time I open a new account online in Singapore now it takes longer, I have to fill in declarations about being a US citizen or not, i.e extra screen on acc opening. eg some investment companies now don't want to pay dividends into accounts, and instead want to issue a cheque. I recently got a dividend cheque sent to me in Thailand - previously just paid direct into my account. I now have the hassle of what to do with it, thru no fault of my own. And of course I don't have foreign currency accounts in Thailand, so I need to mail it somewhere!

Best for the rest of the world if companies start to exclude the US, so the rest of the world can get on with life as was without all the US bureaucracy. Imagine if 200 countries in the world started following this trend with their own different rules and requirements. What makes the US so special apart from the arrogance and incompetence of their authorities

For Thai banks I'd estimate under 1% of their accounts and payment transactions involve US citizens in some way. So save themselves as well as the rest of the world the money and hassle.

Cheers

Fletch

[MrMo]

I think the Thai banks are getting paranoid over the reporting requirement. If you look at the reporting requirements for the taxpayer, if you are single, you have to report on Form 8938 the total value of all assets over $200,000.00 at the end of the year or assets of $300,000.00 anytime during the year. Joint accounts are $400,000.00 and $600,000.00 respectively. There is a reporting threshold of $50,000.00 which I can't understand as it differs from the higher amounts.

As I am single, I would have to have over 6 million baht in financial institutions here in Thailand. I can't ever conceive of any day having 6 million baht. Anyone who is having a problem with opening an account should talk to someone about the reporting requirement amounts. The summary of FATCA reporting for US taxpayers is available from the IRS web site.

You are missing the point I think.

Why should a non-US bank not operating in the US have to go to the expense of reporting to the US authorities on US citizens who have accounts with them just because the US authorities wish to impose their own regulations on banks (or any other organisation or company) who are owned by and operating in countries whose citizens do not have any representation in the USA "democratic" process ?

[bitcoinbob]

bank at bangkok bank they have branches in the u.s. no problem. the federal government is doing this to track all the cash so they can tax it, simple. the banks that are no taking american account are just being lazy or dont have enough accounst to justify small acconting expense. if the italian and greeks did this they would not have a problem with tax collection , the u.s. is getting back lost revenue in taxes, the amount of u.s. money in oversea accounts that is not taxed is astounding. irs claims u.s. is losing 60 billion in revenue. u.s. corporations hold 22 trillion in off shore accounts untaxed of course

[fletchsmile]

I wonder what's next in this great American info gathering exercise?:

-Tapping people's phones to see if they have conversations that might affect the US "interests"?

-Collecting data from search engines like Google without allowing people to know what is being collected?

-One has to wonder which country with significant oil interests will be the first to be invaded for non-compliance with FATCA rules

-Mind you if Iraq is anything to go by, I'm sure the US government will get it's information all wrong.

The claim to be land of the free is becoming laughable. For the rest of the world let's hope there's a push back to contain these activities.

To my US friend in Thailand - great move on leaving the US Thailand has a lot to offer in comparison in terms of freedom

[connda]

Wonder how the immigration service will change the laws when Joe USA can't open an account to put 800K in to cover his retirement visa. And US business owners in LOS. Good luck! Never mind, the Chinese will backfill all the US expats who are force to return home to live on the dole.

[recycler]

Lucky you TMB has by far the worst exchange rates of all Thai banks!

[midas]

I wonder what's next in this great American info gathering exercise?:

-Tapping people's phones to see if they have conversations that might affect the US "interests"?

-Collecting data from search engines like Google without allowing people to know what is being collected?

-One has to wonder which country with significant oil interests will be the first to be invaded for non-compliance with FATCA rules

-Mind you if Iraq is anything to go by, I'm sure the US government will get it's information all wrong.

The claim to be land of the free is becoming laughable. For the rest of the world let's hope there's a push back to contain these activities.

To my US friend in Thailand - great move on leaving the US Thailand has a lot to offer in comparison in terms of freedom

I simply don't understand today's Americans ............after such a pioneering spirit and all their impressive achievements during their first 200 years of history. How could they have allowed their politicians to get away with so much of this b*ll**it and still be so complacent?

By now, shouldn't the vast majority be asking themselves “ does the government work for us or do we work for the government? “

Edited October 31, 2013 by midas

[FangFerang]

It's a domino chain. First Americans, then Brits, then everyone else (except the Russians and Chinese here, and their friendly 'people of colours;' of course)...

Wake up.

Thaksin's ghost is here, and the zombie body is coming back like "The Fall of the House of Usher"... and Thaksin never loved Britain, or ANYONE in the Commonwealth -- in any way, shape or form.... American banking regulations are a small matter at this juncture for expats altogether. The affected number of people is the usual percentage eaten by Thai corruption, meaning all of us in some measure. We all live our lives hoping we are not a letter to the forum and praying someone can help. There is no help. We live our lives from one visa to another, unless we have connections (and which I am lucky to have).

These connections are not deserved, nor earned...it was sheer luck that made me solid. Unfortunately. I cannot help anyone with that -- how could I? This is Thailand, and I will not endanger my family.

Happy Halloween as you once again rejoice that Americans also suffer, but of course rejoice in an obtuse fashion that lets you gloat like the toads you are (not all of you, of course, but more than be counted in ten heartbeats). Just like the election of Tony Blair, you refuse to accept responsibility for the idiots YOU elect, as if Americans are somehow MORE responsible for what our idiots do once they are elected.

That is simple arrogant stupidity, in part, parcel... and endemic. My British friends have never accepted that Singapore was proof that the sun has set on the British Empire. They live in a "Little Britain" dreamworld, and yes, many have seen the show.

It is the downside of democracy...once an idiot is elected, and they are all idiots to me, what happens afterwards is anyone's guess. Once someone is in office, they can do as they please. It is dangerous, such short term thinking made a reality, but to blame an entire people for what their leaders do is like arresting Grandma because her grandson became a terrorist.

Up the Empire! WAY up the Empire, anus-fashion.

Edited October 31, 2013 by FangFerang

[nahkit]

It's a domino chain. First Americans, then Brits, then everyone else (except the Russians and Chinese here, and their friendly 'people of colours;' of course)...

Wake up.

Thaksin's ghost is here, and the zombie body is coming back like "The Fall of the House of Usher"... and Thaksin never loved Britain, or ANYONE in the Commonwealth -- in any way, shape or form.... American banking regulations are a small matter at this juncture for expats altogether. The affected number of people is the usual percentage eaten by Thai corruption, meaning all of us in some measure. We all live our lives hoping we are not a letter to the forum and praying someone can help. There is no help. We live our lives from one visa to another, unless we have connections (and which I am lucky to have).

These connections are not deserved, nor earned...it was sheer luck that made me solid. Unfortunately. I cannot help anyone with that -- how could I? This is Thailand, and I will not endanger my family.

Happy Halloween as you once again rejoice that Americans also suffer, but of course rejoice in an obtuse fashion that lets you gloat like the toads you are (not all of you, of course, but more than be counted in ten heartbeats). Just like the election of Tony Blair, you refuse to accept responsibility for the idiots YOU elect, as if Americans are somehow MORE responsible for what our idiots do once they are elected.

That is simple arrogant stupidity, in part, parcel... and endemic. My British friends have never accepted that Singapore was proof that the sun has set on the British Empire. They live in a "Little Britain" dreamworld, and yes, many have seen the show.

It is the downside of democracy...once an idiot is elected, and they are all idiots to me, what happens afterwards is anyone's guess. Once someone is in office, they can do as they please. It is dangerous, such short term thinking made a reality, but to blame an entire people for what their leaders do is like arresting Grandma because her grandson became a terrorist.

Up the Empire! WAY up the Empire, anus-fashion.

I think you need to stop drinking now.

[Jingthing]

This is troubling news. There are about 7 million American expats in the world. It will be rather ironic if masses of them are pressured "home" because of the blowback from these onerous regulations. America is supposed to represent freedom. Will that include freedom to live abroad? Expect many more Americans to give up their citizenship now.

Face it. Expats have pretty much ZERO political clout where it counts.

BTW, I think this is probably the very first report on this forum of a Thai bank refusing to open a REGULAR bank account to an American in reaction to the reporting regulations. We have heard about refusal to open investment accounts. Hoping this isn't the start of a trend, but it's pretty obvious there will be more stories like this at other banks.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Jingthing

[Briggsy]

Thai banks have seen the that the US will go after Swiss banks.

[JimGant]

I think the Thai banks are getting paranoid over the reporting requirement. If you look at the reporting requirements for the taxpayer, if you are single, you have to report on Form 8938 the total value of all assets over $200,000.00 at the end of the year or assets of $300,000.00 anytime during the year. Joint accounts are $400,000.00 and $600,000.00 respectively. There is a reporting threshold of $50,000.00 which I can't understand as it differs from the higher amounts.

You answer your own question in the PDF link you posted, namely:

Reporting thresholds vary based on whether you file a joint income tax return or

live abroad. If you are single or file separately from your spouse, you must

submit a Form 8938 if you have more than $200,000 of specified foreign financial

assets at the end of the year and you live abroad; or more than $50,000, if you

live in the United States. If you file jointly with your spouse, these thresholds

double. You are considered to live abroad if you are a U.S. citizen whose tax

home is in a foreign country and you have been present in a foreign country or

countries for at least 330 days out of a consecutive 12-month period.

Since foreign banks can't be expected (I hope) to determine whether or not their Yank customer lives abroad for more than 330 days, they're stuck with assuming he's single -- lives in the States for more than 35 days a year -- and thus must use the $50k threshold.

The higher thresholds do show, however, that FATCA is mainly interested in the homegrown tax cheat, and as such, cuts some reporting slack for the expats. (Not that that does the banks any good, if they have to treat all Yanks as less-than-330 day tourists.)

[JimGant]

Yeah, many of us don't have to worry about that form, but all Americans are supposed to report all interest income on TD F 90-22.1. You must state your highest balance during the year and convert your interest income based on the exchange rate on Dec 31 of the tax year on the following website.

Interest is not reported separately on the FBAR (TD F 90-22.0) form. Only the highest balance during the year for each account is reported (which, of course, could include reinvested interest -- but that's not singled out).

Now, if you report large sums year after year on your FBARs, the Feds just might be interested in seeing if your 1040 Schedule B has a line item for Thai bank interest. One such FBAR might be dismissed as a large sum rapidly passing through on its way to building your house. However, you would think that several years of such FBARs would have the revenuers have a loooksee at your tax filings. But, maybe not, since the FBAR is filed at the opposite end of the hallway from the IRS......... Nevertheless, probably worth your while to report some baht earnings on your Schedule B.

[bangkokbanks]

It was my understanding that yhe TD F 90-22.1 is to only be filed by individuals that have foreign bank accounts each with a total value over $10, 000. I have filed this form for 6 years in a row. I never calculated any interest earned. Also have not heard from IRS on my past forms filed but my income is relatively low.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[khaowong1]

I think the Thai banks are getting paranoid over the reporting requirement. If you look at the reporting requirements for the taxpayer, if you are single, you have to report on Form 8938 the total value of all assets over $200,000.00 at the end of the year or assets of $300,000.00 anytime during the year. Joint accounts are $400,000.00 and $600,000.00 respectively. There is a reporting threshold of $50,000.00 which I can't understand as it differs from the higher amounts.

As I am single, I would have to have over 6 million baht in financial institutions here in Thailand. I can't ever conceive of any day having 6 million baht. Anyone who is having a problem with opening an account should talk to someone about the reporting requirement amounts. The summary of FATCA reporting for US taxpayers is available from the IRS web site.

I think this is something that our US ambassador should be involved with. She might be the only one that can be the convincing authority for those of us who are US taxpayers. I can't see the IRS going after my bank just based on my very small deposits here in Thailand. It would cost more for the paperwork than what they would be get out of me.

Summary of FATCA Reporting for US Taxpayer.pdf

Isn't the IRS known for throwing away 100K going after a taxpayer's 100?

If you look at all the scandels involving the IRS lately, you will notice that you are correct. They don't spend their own money, they spend taxpayers money, which to them is the same as monopoly money, therefore, what the hey, spend a 100,000 to get joe blows 100 bucks, what do we care. pricks all. It's high time to get rid of them.

[rotary]

This is many banks worldwide now. A sign of the further decline of the USA with many banks chosing not to deal with silly IRS stuff. As Ronald Reagan said some of the scariest words are "I am here from the govt to help".

[MantisMan]

Been living abroad for over 20 years. Can't think of the last time I even bothered to file a tax form even though my income is peanuts.

Looks like I'll be in trouble when next I go back to the US for a visit.

[Jingthing]

Been living abroad for over 20 years. Can't think of the last time I even bothered to file a tax form even though my income is peanuts.

Looks like I'll be in trouble when next I go back to the US for a visit.

That depends.

Not everyone is required to file, especially lower income under a minimum threshold (but some lower income are based on other factors such as investment income).

Also perhaps your foreign accounts didn't go over the FBAR filing point.

[JSixpack]

I simply don't understand today's Americans ............

For once I can agree w/ you, midas.

Well, warfare and welfare have bankrupted the country. So now it's like a trust fund beneficiary who's run through his inheritance and now finds he needs to scrounge for coins possibly fallen between the sofa cushions.

[midas]

I simply don't understand today's Americans ............

For once I can agree w/ you, midas.

Well, warfare and welfare have bankrupted the country. So now it's like a trust fund beneficiary who's run through his inheritance and now finds he needs to scrounge for coins possibly fallen between the sofa cushions.

But surely JSixpack you can get the country back - rescue the country?

But you'll never do so while you have people like Rep. Peter Stark (D-Calif.) supposedly representing the people. When I first saw this guy I was absolutely gobsmacked at how rude, arrogant and completely unsympathetic he was to the people who are paying his salary for Christ's sake!

Take a look at the way Peter Stark responds to one of his constituents in this video-not only his verbal exchange which is shocking but also his body language. If an Australian politician behaved like this, I can tell you he wouldn't last very long at all.

How many other elected officials in Washington have a similar attitude to this ?

Actually, even as a non-American I can think of a number of others, including ladies

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/15/pete-stark-i-wouldnt-dign_n_287080.html

Edited November 1, 2013 by midas

[Dennisdob]

What next? No service in bars? It will certainly be much quieter.

This has nothing to do with discrimination against Americans. It is the result of an overreaching US Government that is trying to force every bank in the world to bend to its will, and do a lot of expensive and burdensome paperwork without recompense. I can't say I blame the banks. Just no accounts for Americans, and no problem.

It was all so predictable when the US passed FATCA.

Every bank in the world;

Indeed, why must my bank in NL bend to the will of the bloody US and report to them ALL transfers I make to my bank in Thailand.

I don't want that.

It is time the US gets the lid on it's nose for prying into everybody's business.

[Dennisdob]

I am an American, questions about America being asked. What are we thinking about? Would that be your question? Ask me, I'm a Ph.D and would be happy to discuss the American way! One stated something about warfare! Do you believe that we enjoy seeing our dedicated military soldiers die to protect others against terrorism or to assist in defending The sovereignty of other countries? Someone believes the US cares about NL? You really need an education on foreign affairs and banking. Are you so alienated against America? Some of these statements are so ridiculous and without thought. Why do people who live outside the US feel so superior? It was my belief that we were all allies. I truly believe that many have short memories.

Banking, the gentleman stated prior, Bangkok Bank. That would be correct answer, one is located in New York. I have a foreign currency account along with a savings account. I banking is also available. If traveling many of the countries prefer the the US dollar over the Thai baht. Foreign currency account alleviates that problem.

[isawasnake]

Will US banks give out information of foreign customers for the same types of tax purposes?

You see these double standards popping up a lot from US policy: "we reserve the right to have nuclear weapons. What was that? You want them too. Oh no no, we can't allow that". It seems to be a pattern.

I am an American, and to be perfectly honest, I don't know who in the world we think we are. Any logical, reasonably intelligent human will understand these are very arrogant and self serving policies. They really have no right, but this simply does not stop them.