I'm a violent alcoholic

[ding]

You have the capacity to be honest, your chances of staying sober are better than average.

Read the 1st line of Chapter 5 of The Big Book, 'How It Works'. (pg 58)

AA lore has it that Bill W would only change one word in that book, He'd change 'rarely' to 'never'.

You never have to drink again as long as you live. No person, no place, and no thing -can EVER make you take a drink again.

You never have to do that sick crap again. You're gonna be just fine.

Welcome home.

[Neeranam]

I was often a violent alcoholic. I would drink 2 large bottles of Thai whisky a day and a few large Changs. I got into a few fights in Thailand and ended up in quite a few hospitals. To say Thailand is more dangerous than my home country is wrong. If I had behaved the way I did here there, I'd have been killed. Thai people seemed to have a lot more compassion for this hopeless drunk.

I took part in a Naltrexone trial in the early 90s and it certainly does help.

I never had the shakes in the mornings and when I drank it didn't have the same effect. I believe it can turn an alcoholic into a normal drinker. But, as an alcoholic, if I could drink normally, I'd want to get drunk every night and not face the demons that were waiting to be fought.

I'm very grateful that I found AA as it seems the best way for an alcoholic to recover. Alcoholism is a 3 faceted disease - physical, spiritual and emotional.

I guess it is possible to work on these three aspects separately, like Naltrexone for the physical, God or similar for the spiritual and something like CBT for the emotional but it will cost a lot of money. AA addresses all three and is free and a great part of it is fellowship with similar people.

Willpower doesn't work if you are an alcoholic. Heavy binge drinker yes. There is a huge difference. When an alcoholic drinks alcohol there are natural opiates formed in the body, giving him or her the better feeling than the normal drinker and hence why Naltrexone, an opoid antagonist can be beneficial.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Neeranam

[Shaksey]

The absolute problem I and a lot of others have with the AA program is the ridiculous use of an imaginary higher power or "God" in the steps. Something that is based on a fairy tale has no meaning or relevance to me and a lot of people and we cannot take it seriously at all. It's pretty laughable in fact.

Are there any AA programs that have more up to date 12 steps that don't require you to believe in something that doesn't exist?

[Neeranam]

The absolute problem I and a lot of others have with the AA program is the ridiculous use of an imaginary higher power or "God" in the steps. Something that is based on a fairy tale has no meaning or relevance to me and a lot of people and we cannot take it seriously at all. It's pretty laughable in fact.

Are there any AA programs that have more up to date 12 steps that don't require you to believe in something that doesn't exist?

Wow, do you think that you are the highest power in the universe? I find that laughable.

Quite simply, if you have a problem with AAs steps, don't do them , they're not compulsory. I had a problem at the start but looking around the rooms at the people who had done them and the ones that hadn't make me decide to try them.

The 'higher power' was the group of drunks. Then what I consider miracles happened and I started to believe that I wasn't as almighty as I thought.

[mad mary]

I've been bladdered loads of times ,in fact I'm bladdered all of the time in Thailand & I haven't lost a fight yet that couldn't be seen as a miss match!

[Mooner]

The only way for someone like u is abstinence.

U have an addictive personality. I think ur tgr kind of person that cant have a few drinks.

Not judging u. Hope u can work things out

[Piztolapete]

I might suggest you work on the anger inside you that comes out when you drink and sleeps when you sober. Or does it? Try to find a soft heart like my Thai wife told me. And I found one.

[Neeranam]

so much nonsense is talked about people who drink too much, if you want to cut down do that if you want to give it up do it. Drinking too much is not a 'disease' it's an addiction and all you need to do either is a little bit of self control. What I dislike about both drinkers and ex drinkers is the way they have to wail about it in public, either boasting about how many years it is since they had a drink, or how drink has degraded them. The last thing a person needs to do is to go to a sad group like AA and burden them with yet another sob story. To the OP - have a bit of self respect and stop, but don't go on and on about it to people who don't even know you.

As for Billy Graham I would rather be a hopeless drunk than listen to that hypocrite!

No such thing as a hopeless drunk. If this drunk can sober up any drunk can.

So much ignorance in your post. How is AA sad? Have you ever been? Sick people helping each other to get well is not sad at all.

Drinking too much is not an addiction. Alcoholism is and a disease.

[ArranP]

Apparently 1 hours worth of alchohol is just one glass of drink which can be drank in 10 to 15 minutes. http://www.drunkmansguide.com/articles/drunkenness.php

What are we supposed to do for the other 45 minutes ? This maybe the problem.

a) at the outset of the evening, we are bored waiting the 45 minutes so we drink 2 to 3 drinks per hour,

at this time people talk to us because we are coherent.

c) later the drink takes effect and we are drunk

d) people stop talking to us because were drunk

e) we become more bored so drink some more and get more drunk

f) we get no attention at all from other people so we demand attention by provoking people.

problem is boredom.

Edited March 1, 2014 by ArranP

[speedtripler]

Just stay on the 5% beer and nothing stronger, to prevent to get annoyed/violent, that's was my lesson and it works ... for me.

So, where's the fridge?, time for a Singha ....

its fine if you can stop at one

if i start drinking il not stop until i pass out

its torture for me to go into a bar and try to "not drink " or " just have a couple "

[BohemianDaddyo]

there is a drug (naltrexone i think) that is used for drug addicts to stop them from getting high and has been used in trials for alchoholics with great success . maybe you could see a doctor and ask about this .

Swap one drug for another drug, that does not make any sense at all.

You are not a qualified counselor to be telling other active alcoholics what will and will not work for them from being what AA calls an always 'recovering' alcoholic. And you did swap one drug for another - a psychologically dependent drug referred to as a higher power that is specifically called 'God' in almost half the steps. And if that worked for you, great..

As a more rational 'recovered' alcoholic atheist, AA didn't work for me.. Rational Recovery however did after wasting much time with what is not counseling in AA, but a 'belief' structure in some imaginary higher power no different than any imaginary god.. AA doesn't work for some, but it does work for the 'believers' out there.

I would suggest the OP seek out qualified counseling AA is not and never will be based on those 12 irrational steps. I initially used a drug that made me violently ill, but like Naltrexone, you've got to take the drug and both are only temporary solutions.. REAL counseling is needed initially for some, others can simply quit on their own. Statistically most do quit after they've had enough without resorting to AA. David Letterman is a more famous example. It might depend on how much pain and suffering one is willing to go through before they've had enough.

If you're the rational non believer type of personality, or one with what I call an Aristotelian life philosophy, I suggest Rational Recovery or a similar form of counseling. If you are a 'Believer' type of personality with more of a Platonic Life philosophy, AA might work for you.. Regardless, just know there are choices in recovery, and AA is NOT the only choice. Sober 15 years now and it had nothing to do with AA that in actually made it worse for me with that 'one day at a time' mantra. I do have a background in counseling though - w/a behavioral science Master's degree studying the type of cognitive behavioral therapy utilized by RR's AVRT based on the Rational-Emotive treatment of alcoholism from renown psychotherapist and atheist, Dr. Albert Ellis...

Edited April 2, 2014 by BohemianDaddyo

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts removed. Please stay on topic.

[heybuz]

i think that you'll have to ask yourself why do you drink first.boredom,depressed or other then work from their.

[big carl]

so much nonsense is talked about people who drink too much, if you want to cut down do that if you want to give it up do it. Drinking too much is not a 'disease' it's an addiction and all you need to do either is a little bit of self control. What I dislike about both drinkers and ex drinkers is the way they have to wail about it in public, either boasting about how many years it is since they had a drink, or how drink has degraded them. The last thing a person needs to do is to go to a sad group like AA and burden them with yet another sob story. To the OP - have a bit of self respect and stop, but don't go on and on about it to people who don't even know you.

As for Billy Graham I would rather be a hopeless drunk than listen to that hypocrite!

Have you ever considered going to ALANON?

the fact that you come to a thread like this tells me you have a problem with alcohol either your own use or that of one in your life.

I suspect the latter.

[Neeranam]

there is a drug (naltrexone i think) that is used for drug addicts to stop them from getting high and has been used in trials for alchoholics with great success . maybe you could see a doctor and ask about this .

Swap one drug for another drug, that does not make any sense at all.

You are not a qualified counselor to be telling other active alcoholics what will and will not work for them from being what AA calls an always 'recovering' alcoholic. And you did swap one drug for another - a psychologically dependent drug referred to as a higher power that is specifically called 'God' in almost half the steps. And if that worked for you, great..

Are you seriously trying to say that God is a drug? Not a very rational thing to say.

WHy do people like you get so upset about something that you don't believe exists?

[impulse]

Are you seriously trying to say that God is a drug? Not a very rational thing to say.

WHy do people like you get so upset about something that you don't believe exists?

Even if God were just a substitute "drug", I've never known anyone who wrecked a car while driving under the influence of Jesus. Or robbed a 7-11 to buy a 6 pack of Holy Water.

Swapping one compulsion for another makes perfect sense if it works, and the alternate compulsion keeps me away from the one that's killing me.

[mad mary]

Are you seriously trying to say that God is a drug? Not a very rational thing to say.

WHy do people like you get so upset about something that you don't believe exists?

Even if God were just a substitute "drug", I've never known anyone who wrecked a car while driving under the influence of Jesus. Or robbed a 7-11 to buy a 6 pack of Holy Water.

Swapping one compulsion for another makes perfect sense if it works, and the alternate compulsion keeps me away from the one that's killing me.

No and god never told anyone to kill either

[big carl]

there is a drug (naltrexone i think) that is used for drug addicts to stop them from getting high and has been used in trials for alchoholics with great success . maybe you could see a doctor and ask about this .

Swap one drug for another drug, that does not make any sense at all.

You are not a qualified counselor to be telling other active alcoholics what will and will not work for them from being what AA calls an always 'recovering' alcoholic. And you did swap one drug for another - a psychologically dependent drug referred to as a higher power that is specifically called 'God' in almost half the steps. And if that worked for you, great..

Are you seriously trying to say that God is a drug? Not a very rational thing to say.

WHy do people like you get so upset about something that you don't believe exists?

Yes it is funny to watch and listen to people like him. I know two atheist in AA one with over 44 years. I mentioned one day that I knew an atheist who when he found himself in a life boat in the Pacific during world War 2 admitted he prayed. I mentioned one day that there were no atheist in fox holes and my friend with over 44 years said O yes there is.

People will come up with all kinds of reasons to avoid one method or the other and that is OK if they can find a solution. They don't have to like it but if it works go for it.

Swapping one drug for another. Narcotics Anonymous is full of people who have tried that to no avail. It just brought on a new set of problems. Kind of like the Alcoholics switching drinks. One gives them the runs another hang overs another a dry mouth yet they still need the mind altering drink.

Almost forgot the one poster mentioning god being referred to in almost half the steps.

It is only referred to in three out of twelve and it is clearly stated right at the first mention as you understood him. Notice the word understood him is not present tense it allows you to grow and change your understanding you might even go so far as to become an atheist. It is your choice not mine or some church it is yours. Nothing about the God school taught you or the guy on the soap box on the corner. Your own understanding. We all know there is some thing. That seems to work for many.

Edited April 13, 2014 by big carl

[metisdead]

A post suggesting to "take up weed" would be an illegal activity therefore illegal activities are not to be discussed here. Replies have been removed as well.

[ultimate weapon]

I have known people who would plan on going to A club,bar and after having A few would deliberately start A fight with the biggest,roughest person in the place.That would be their form of entertainment.

I was at A large size club one night.Approximately 300 patrons.At closing time there was A 30 person free for all outside of the place.Great entertainment for me.I stayed in the background.I'm the opposite.I'm A happy person when I drink.

It didn't take place in thailand right?

[Thaiberius]

Twenty years ago I went into rehab twice which is great for easing you off alcohol and filling your head full of nonsense but does not cure the root of the problem. I gave AA a go but found them to be totally useless. I soon came to the conclusion the only person able to help me was me. My drinking habits were out of control, two bottles of vodka a day plus beer and wine. However, I was never a nasty or abusive drunk. It took me a couple of years and even now I work at it but now I can control the drinking. Of course I still binge occasionally but it never goes on for days on end.

The OP should gain some insight into why he drinks and then use this knowledge in order to control it. This can be a long and at times painful process as some unpleasant home truths have to be confronted but it can be done.

My best wishes for confronting the problem and as for the violence, cut that out today. In my eyes a violent drunk is just the same as a pedophile, somebody who bullies the weakest and causes irreparable harm to those close to him.

[Neeranam]

Twenty years ago I went into rehab twice which is great for easing you off alcohol and filling your head full of nonsense but does not cure the root of the problem. I gave AA a go but found them to be totally useless. I soon came to the conclusion the only person able to help me was me. My drinking habits were out of control, two bottles of vodka a day plus beer and wine. However, I was never a nasty or abusive drunk. It took me a couple of years and even now I work at it but now I can control the drinking. Of course I still binge occasionally but it never goes on for days on end.

The OP should gain some insight into why he drinks and then use this knowledge in order to control it. This can be a long and at times painful process as some unpleasant home truths have to be confronted but it can be done.

My best wishes for confronting the problem and as for the violence, cut that out today. In my eyes a violent drunk is just the same as a pedophile, somebody who bullies the weakest and causes irreparable harm to those close to him.

Of course AA would be useless if you don't want to quit drinking.

Sounds like you want to control your drinking and have managed to do so by yourself, apart from the binges, Well done.

Do you think you are helping the OP by saying he is the same as a pedophile?

[Thaiberius]

Twenty years ago I went into rehab twice which is great for easing you off alcohol and filling your head full of nonsense but does not cure the root of the problem. I gave AA a go but found them to be totally useless. I soon came to the conclusion the only person able to help me was me. My drinking habits were out of control, two bottles of vodka a day plus beer and wine. However, I was never a nasty or abusive drunk. It took me a couple of years and even now I work at it but now I can control the drinking. Of course I still binge occasionally but it never goes on for days on end.

The OP should gain some insight into why he drinks and then use this knowledge in order to control it. This can be a long and at times painful process as some unpleasant home truths have to be confronted but it can be done.

My best wishes for confronting the problem and as for the violence, cut that out today. In my eyes a violent drunk is just the same as a pedophile, somebody who bullies the weakest and causes irreparable harm to those close to him.

Of course AA would be useless if you don't want to quit drinking.

Sounds like you want to control your drinking and have managed to do so by yourself, apart from the binges, Well done.

Do you think you are helping the OP by saying he is the same as a pedophile?

I don't know the guy but I do know that a violent drunk is a bully who subjects those close to him to unwanted violence. A violent drunk also knows there is a problem with their behaviour that causes pain to others and more often than not those close to him. These are personality traits also shared by pedophiles.

[Restinpeace]

Thank you for the support and many of the private comments i've received since I posted this topic. I am making good progress with my alcoholism.

The violence when i'm drunk is not rational. I'll throw a chair at a wall, smash a glass, punch a hole in the wall, or kick down a door for no apparent reason when alone. If someone talks with me even in a completely normal manner i'll view it as something aggressive when drunk and it will escalate quickly. These are all things told to me from people who have observed my behavior. It's awful.

I definitely don't have bully tendencies and feel repulsed at the thought of harming people when i'm sober. I can't explain it myself.

[Bangkok112]

GL OP stay strong thanks for posting

[ToddinChonburi]

Good luck .

[Caprelo]

"When you take away the alcohol you have to give me something of equal or greater value in return"

[aussiesnottie]

Hi I've personally struggled with addiction and alcoholism for over 20 years and have now recovered. I now want to give back what I have learned over a very expensive journey of rehabs and psychiatrists etc to the best solutions I've worked out.

I've wanted to live in Thailand for many years and have been too scared due to alcohol being so widely available but am now confident in the treatment solution I can offer not only myself but others.

I'm thinking I'd like to give back to others by opening a clinic in Thailand to help other expats who need help. If you are interested in helping or getting help then please email me at [email protected]. I'd love to hear from you.

I wish you all the best on your journeys.

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[transam]

"When you take away the alcohol you have to give me something of equal or greater value in return"

A job....?

[aussiesnottie]

@Transnam need to be careful as workaholism is another one on the "isms" :-)

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