Senate fails to kill Thai amnesty bill

[CIHUAHUA]

It has been good for me as the exchange rate Baht to Dollar gets better. This is not really off topic since I can not vote in this country.

[scorecard]

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

So why did the opposition abstain from voting rather than vote against it?

Because they were denied the right to propose amendments, for the second & third readings, and not allowed to speak out against them, while they were being rushed-through in an all-night-sitting by the 'neutral' Speaker & his Deputies, perhaps ?

Better to refuse to vote, in protest against the undemocratic tactics of PTP & the Speaker, than to give the appearance of it having been in-any-way democratic, good for the Dems !

And in parallel we have arisman and other reds trying to stir up the red masses again with their 'fight for democracy' cries.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Folks here who are angry that the Senate hasn't "rejected" the one remaining amnesty bill that's still in play, the one passed by the House that would include corruption cases and such, need to pay close attention to this one pgh from the OP news report.

If the Senate rejects the bill, the House, where Pheu Thai has a majority, could still vote to reaffirm it after a 180-day period.

And that apparently means, without any further action or future concurrence from the Senate.

That obviously is some different kind of "democratic" process from what folks from the West might expect. But it's apparently the way the rules work here.

So, supposedly, the best way for the Senate to actually kill the bill is to vote to amend it into something else.... not reject it outright.

The PTP-led House, of course, could still vote itself to kill or withdraw the blanket amnesty bill, regardless of what the Senate does. But how many think that's actually what a bunch of Thaksin lackies are likely to do?

[Saraphee]

Thankyou I have a lot to learn about Thai politics

So have most of the politicians

[Baerboxer]

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

So why did the opposition abstain from voting rather than vote against it?

Because coward Abhisit is against all what is democratic and will always be against anything that he did not think about.

Wow - you think PTP and this bill are democratic ? Why do you think all the Thais are protesting in this and other countries against it ?

Clue - they realize its all aimed at getting a whitewash for a criminal.

[Thait Spot]

 

 

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

 

 

So why did the opposition abstain from voting rather than vote against it?

 

 

 

Because coward Abhisit is against all what is democratic and will always be against anything that he did not think about. 

Coward?

I didn't see him run away from anything unlike the square faced one

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Baerboxer]

Thankyou I have a lot to learn about Thai politics

Well taken. Shame there are not a few more on here who would take things so graciously when their viewpoints are questioned.

Speaking for yourself ?

Do you have any comment on the post, perhaps Yingluck's attempt at misleading the protesters to believe the controversial bill had been withdrawn? Or perhaps on the Senate speakers rush to reject it rather than discuss and possible amend it ?

Or are you only commenting on your fellow TV posters as a diversion ?

[ratcatcher]

Even if the missunderstood fugitive would get his amnesty and could return to Thailand, he would never be/feel save there. And even if he would not be killed by people, stress will do the job.

did not read all the posts so not sure if someone commented on this one. He would not only be welcomed back with open arms he would probably be awarded the "Golden" key to the country. At least in the North and North East regions of the country. Hidden In behind every picture of the family you will find a picture of TS. At least around my neck of the woods.

He is well liked and respected by many Thai people......regardless of what many TV posters say......I have no opinion one way or the other but just going by how he is talked about in this region (Nongkhai/Udon).

As a foreigner living in the heart of Red country, it is not surprising what you report. Everyone knows that a huge majority of the residents of Isaan love Thaksin Shinawatra. However outside of that area in the rest of the country he is certainly not well loved.

So, if you lived in the southern provinces, you will always find a picture of the family. You might also find a picture of TS in the "hong naam".

[fab4]

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

So why did the opposition abstain from voting rather than vote against it?

Because they were denied the right to propose amendments, for the second & third readings, and not allowed to speak out against them, while they were being rushed-through in an all-night-sitting by the 'neutral' Speaker & his Deputies, perhaps ?

Better to refuse to vote, in protest against the undemocratic tactics of PTP & the Speaker, than to give the appearance of it having been in-any-way democratic, good for the Dems !

So it was the PTP that was filibustering for 18 hours of debate not the dems. How else could it be if they coudn't say a word during that entire time? Has anybody got footage of the debate that can prove this version of events, where the dems weren't allowed to say a word for 18 hours?

[metisdead]

That's why I commented on a poster.

Address the topic at hand rather than other posters.

[fab4]

Thankyou I have a lot to learn about Thai politics

Well taken. Shame there are not a few more on here who would take things so graciously when their viewpoints are questioned.

Speaking for yourself ?

Do you have any comment on the post, perhaps Yingluck's attempt at misleading the protesters to believe the controversial bill had been withdrawn? Or perhaps on the Senate speakers rush to reject it rather than discuss and possible amend it ?

Or are you only commenting on your fellow TV posters as a diversion ?

See post 39.

[Siripon]

Fab 4 please try to follow the news and you will see that Pheua Thai rushed through the second and third readings of the bill, not allowing many Democrat MPs to speak.

This was apparently on the orders of Yaopawa, the overweight sister of Thaksin working behind the Pheau Thai scenes. She has to be behind because if she stood in front nobody else would be visible.

Pheau Thai have really shot themselves in the foot with this bill- if only it was in the head.

[cornishcarlos]

As with any dictatorship, the leaders rely on the uneducated masses vote, either through payments or intimidation. Their BS is easier to sell to the folk that can't see past a 500 baht note.

Unfortunately for this dictatorship government, it is not the uneducated masses that are protesting this time, it is the educated masses.

They are trying to fool the wrong people. Their tactics are so transparent, that they will have to resort to violent disruption methods soon.

The rice farmers in the North won't get paid if they don't tow the line and the Farangs married to them won't get laid if they don't agree with the Mrs !!

[Soutpeel]

Fab 4 please try to follow the news and you will see that Pheua Thai rushed through the second and third readings of the bill, not allowing many Democrat MPs to speak.

This was apparently on the orders of Yaopawa, the overweight sister of Thaksin working behind the Pheau Thai scenes. She has to be behind because if she stood in front nobody else would be visible.

Pheau Thai have really shot themselves in the foot with this bill- if only it was in the head.

Shooting the average PTP, red shirt or Thaksin supporter in the head would result in missing their brains by around 6 feet

[Bpuumike]

Even if the missunderstood fugitive would get his amnesty and could return to Thailand, he would never be/feel save there. And even if he would not be killed by people, stress will do the job.

What puzzles me, and maybe several others, is why Thaksin would want to return to Thailand. He has more money than he could actually spend (even if he financed his sister's shopping), and could flit from place to place anywhere in the World. He should learn the rule of diminishing returns. Why stay on the treadmill for not a lot more?

Thb46 billion is quite a lot more.

I don't know what his life expectancy would be if he were to return.

[Halion]

The groundswell of support against this bill has taken the Government by surprise especially owing to the swelling in the ranks of the protesters over the past week. Mass demonstrations albeit peaceful have given rise to international concerns prompting several foreign embassy's to issue travel warnings due to the political turmoil. That does not auger well at the start of the tourist season, however, in 180 days it will be low season and if this government is still in power then this will kick off again.

Much of the content of this bill is totally at the behest and in the interest of the Shiniwatra's and if they have even the slightest vestige of power left they will do everything imaginable without boundary to push this through. There is little substance within this whole Amnesty Bill regarding benefit to this nation and it's public, just the government abusing their positions for personal gain.

[Ricardo]

Even if the missunderstood fugitive would get his amnesty and could return to Thailand, he would never be/feel save there. And even if he would not be killed by people, stress will do the job.

did not read all the posts so not sure if someone commented on this one. He would not only be welcomed back with open arms he would probably be awarded the "Golden" key to the country. At least in the North and North East regions of the country. Hidden In behind every picture of the family you will find a picture of TS. At least around my neck of the woods.

He is well liked and respected by many Thai people......regardless of what many TV posters say......I have no opinion one way or the other but just going by how he is talked about in this region (Nongkhai/Udon).

I respect your report on your own local area, however would wish to point out that IME support in the North-West (where I live) is majority but not universal, there are a substantial minority who don't vote TRT/PPP/PTP and the local Reds put serious effort into waving their flags and suppressing those who don't follow their party line, with some effect.

There are also often disagreements amongst the various local Red-Shirt factions, Big Sister herself polled lower than her driver, when she replaced him as a local MP, and this is in the Shin-Clan's home-province.

Merely in the interests of presenting a balanced view.

[jdinasia]

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

So why did the opposition abstain from voting rather than vote against it?

Because they were denied the right to propose amendments, for the second & third readings, and not allowed to speak out against them, while they were being rushed-through in an all-night-sitting by the 'neutral' Speaker & his Deputies, perhaps ?

Better to refuse to vote, in protest against the undemocratic tactics of PTP & the Speaker, than to give the appearance of it having been in-any-way democratic, good for the Dems !

So it was the PTP that was filibustering for 18 hours of debate not the dems. How else could it be if they coudn't say a word during that entire time? Has anybody got footage of the debate that can prove this version of events, where the dems weren't allowed to say a word for 18 hours?

It was reported in the press ... the opposition was not allowed discussion prior to the vote on the 3rd reading. Feel free to find footage on your own. Democracy red style showed itself clearly on that 3rd reading.

[ballpoint]

Even if the missunderstood fugitive would get his amnesty and could return to Thailand, he would never be/feel save there. And even if he would not be killed by people, stress will do the job.

did not read all the posts so not sure if someone commented on this one. He would not only be welcomed back with open arms he would probably be awarded the "Golden" key to the country. At least in the North and North East regions of the country. Hidden In behind every picture of the family you will find a picture of TS. At least around my neck of the woods.

He is well liked and respected by many Thai people......regardless of what many TV posters say......I have no opinion one way or the other but just going by how he is talked about in this region (Nongkhai/Udon).

I respect your report on your own local area, however would wish to point out that IME support in the North-West (where I live) is majority but not universal, there are a substantial minority who don't vote TRT/PPP/PTP and the local Reds put serious effort into waving their flags and suppressing those who don't follow their party line, with some effect.

There are also often disagreements amongst the various local Red-Shirt factions, Big Sister herself polled lower than her driver, when she replaced him as a local MP, and this is in the Shin-Clan's home-province.

Merely in the interests of presenting a balanced view.

Rather hard to balance a post that stumbles along, basically saying he'd be welcomed back by the whole country, or at least the North and North East, or at least Udon/Nong Khai. I was rather disappointed it ended there. Was rather looking forward to the "or at least Udon, or at least Southern Udon, or at least Amphur Nong Saeng, or at least Ban Khokamin, or at least no. 29 Moo Tee 6, or at least in the front room, in the chair next to the sideboard, where the farang sits".

[kimamey]

My understanding was that all the proposed legislation was withdrawn yesterday by the people who had put it up and the vote was 310 to 1 to accept the withdrawal so why is it now in the senate?

As far as I know once it was sent to the senate it's up to them to deal with it so there wasn't anything that could be done about withdrawing it. That's my limited understanding anyway.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There were about 7 or so pieces of legislation on this subject in various forms...

6 of them still in the House were withdrawn by the government/PT in recent days, which they loudly publicized in an attempt to quiet the street demonstrations.

But the last bill -- the amnesty for crooks bill that many Thais finally are going bonkers about -- was already passed out of the House and onto the Senate by the time the current government began, at least in public, to have second thoughts. Apparently, once it's already passed onto the Senate, the House cannot withdraw it at that point.

If the Senate next week rejects the amnesty for crooks bill, then apparently the House could vote to enact it on its own, without any Senate concurrence, after a 180 day waiting period.

Or, the House could, once it receives the bill back from the Senate, vote to withdraw it. I'm not sure whether that involves the 180 day waiting period or not. Who knows what the PT led folks in the House are likely to do at this point.

Are they serious/honest in their public claims about dropping the push for amnesty? Or is it all just a ruse to quiet the street demonstrations and come back in 180 days to try the same thing all over again with just a PT-led House vote only?

[EyesWideOpen]

Am getting a bit confused here. So 40 cowardly senators fail to show up, so then the senate does not really have to vote on a bill that is " unpopular". So the rug is in essence pulled out from under the protesters, as without a vote one way or another, there is really nothing to protest against...... So the protesters go home, and in 180 days the house, which approved this bill 310 to 0, will get to vote again and then this goes into law. Gee I wonder if it will pass in the house.............Sometime I feel like I am living in an insane asylum, but with the crazies in charge.

Looks to me like it is time for coup number 19, or is it 20. Am losing track with so many coups.

The little piggies get greedy at the trough, and then once again the military has to straighten them out.

I do like this idea of a people's court. Thaksin has this government so packed with his toadies

hard to imagine any form of justice coming out of it. So nice to see the people rise up to claim

their own justice....

Edited November 9, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[rubl]

"Senate fails to kill Thai amnesty bill"

Strictly speaking wrong topic title. It's much more a case of "Senate refuses to be pressured and will stick to original schedule. Debate to start Monday morning"

[473geo]

"Senate fails to kill Thai amnesty bill"

Strictly speaking wrong topic title. It's much more a case of "Senate refuses to be pressured and will stick to original schedule. Debate to start Monday morning"

"Senate seeks to cement political gain for Democrats by ensuring anti amnesty protests continue"

Edited November 9, 2013 by 473geo

[rubl]

"Senate fails to kill Thai amnesty bill"

Strictly speaking wrong topic title. It's much more a case of "Senate refuses to be pressured and will stick to original schedule. Debate to start Monday morning"

"Senate seeks to cement political gain for Democrats by ensuring anti amnesty protests continue"

Totally incorrect. At the most "group-of-40 seeks ... ...".

Mind you with a 150 member Senate and only 69 senators present there were about 81 not present. Just hastily calculated on all of my ten fingers, so I hope no mistake there

Edited November 9, 2013 by rubl

[MAJIC]

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

So why did the opposition abstain from voting rather than vote against it?

Because coward Abhisit is against all what is democratic and will always be against anything that he did not think about.

Abhisit is no coward,he stays in Thailand a courageous,and honourable man, the real coward and convicted criminal,did a runner out of the country,by breaking his Bail,and now resides in Dubai. You obviously know nothing of Thai Politics, and Political History!

Edited November 9, 2013 by MAJIC

[Robby nz]

So assuming the senate on Monday votes down the bill before it .

Then the house can revote on it after 180 days.

However PT and the parasite parties have promised to drop this bill and not to revisit it after 180 days.

BUT, is there anything to stop them introducing another (No 8) amnesty bill after they think thing have calmed down enough ?

[ratcatcher]

"Senate fails to kill Thai amnesty bill"

Strictly speaking wrong topic title. It's much more a case of "Senate refuses to be pressured and will stick to original schedule. Debate to start Monday morning"

"Senate seeks to cement political gain for Democrats by ensuring anti amnesty protests continue"

AFAIK the original date for the senate to approve or reject the bill was Monday Nov 11th.

The government realizing the groundswell against them tried to rush it through the senate. The fact that the senators were unable or unwilling to reach a quorum due to attendance and the bill remains undecided, so to speak, means that the protesters have the whole weekend to continue to build up resistance against the bill and the government.

The rain doesn't seem to have dampened their enthusiasm and determination.

Regardless of the bold face they are putting on it, PTP is facing the biggest and longest mass demonstration in years. This is not the same as the PAD or multi color rallies of recent times where the police presence totally outnumbered participants.

What we have now is a huge cross section of Thai society from business, academia, unions,students all the way through to motorcycle taxi lads all saying "Enough is enough" and demanding the government listen.

With the I.C.J. ruling expected on Monday, it promises to be a memorable day.

I am sure TS is enjoying his weekend.

[thaicbr]

 

 

 

The answer to the second question goes back to the PTP election slogan, "Thaksin thinks PTP acts"

 

 

So why did the opposition abstain from voting rather than vote against it?

 

 

 

Because they were denied the right to propose amendments, for the second & third readings, and not allowed to speak out against them, while they were being rushed-through in an all-night-sitting by the 'neutral' Speaker & his Deputies, perhaps ?

 

Better to refuse to vote, in protest against the undemocratic tactics of PTP & the Speaker, than to give the appearance of it having been in-any-way democratic, good for the Dems !

 

 

 

So it was the PTP that was filibustering for 18 hours of debate not the dems. How else could it be if they coudn't say a word during that entire time? Has anybody got footage of the debate that can prove this version of events, where the dems weren't allowed to say a word for 18 hours?

Unlikely any one has public footage as Phua Thai requested that it NOT be televised even though it should have been according to the debate pre agreement.

Sent from my phone with the app thingy.

[tominbkk]

Am getting a bit confused here. So 40 cowardly senators fail to show up, so then the senate does not really have to vote on a bill that is " unpopular".

They didn't fail to show up because of cowardice.

These senators were making a point that they are not going to be pushed around by Yingluck and company, and will arrive on Monday when the date was set for the vote. Just because the government has put themselves into an awful and vulnerable position, doesn't mean that they can bully the senators into action at their whim. Let the government stew in their own treacherous juices a few days.

In fact, the senators are being very brave in what they are doing, not cowardly. You have it wrong.