Thailand will not withdraw its troops from Preah Vihear temple just yet

[webfact]

No troop withdrawal yet



BANGKOK: -- Thailand will not withdraw troops from the area of the Preah VIhear temple as demanded by Cambodian Premier Hun Sen during his press interview yesterday.

Defense Ministry spokesman Col Thanatip Sawangsaeng said Thailand will not pull its troops out of the area of the Preah Vihear as demanded by the Cambodian premier when he reiterated the ruling of the International Court of Justice yesterday calling for Thai troops to be withdrawn from the area.

The spokesman said that any withdrawal of troops would depend on a discussion at the meeting of the joint cooperation committee of both countries.

He said that the Armed Forces regarded security and safety of the people at the area before any action was taken.

At the same time, the Second Army Region commander Lt-Gen CHarnchai Phuthong said the border situation remained peaceful and troops are still staying at their bases.

He said that the Second Army now would have the duty to explain to the border people on the ruling and to ensure their safety.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/troop-withdrawal-yet/

-- Thai PBS 2013-11-12

[phuketrichard]

they want push the envelope.

what is wrong with them>?????

[Neilly]

This should help their campaign to get a seat on the UN Security Council

The government recently launched a campaign to be a non-permanent member of the Security Council in 2017-2018. Its theme was to be a bridge between developed and developing members for peace and security.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Thailand-deserves-a-turn-at-the-UN-Security-Counci-30214624.html

[h90]

making the worst out of a messed up situation.

Best would be to accept the ruling, withdraw, congratulate Cambodia and forget the case.

Worse would be to not accept it and declare that it is Thai soil and try to hold it.

Worst make both things half....yes accept...everything good but we don't take the troops out.....at the end Thailand loose the land, make Cambodia angry and looks foolish.

[soi41]

Even the most stupid footballer understands: means he has to leave the field!!

But not Thailand, because they think that Thainess entitles them to play by their rules only!

Leave the settling of the ICJ-ruling to the Khmer village heads on both side of the boarder. No doubt those down to earth people will manage it to the satisfaction of all Khmer people living in the actual area.

Instead of involving the army, nationalists and selfserving politicians, who don't give a shit about the local people, but are only trying to promote their own petty agenda!!

[Thaddeus]

He (the Second Army Region commander Lt-Gen CHarnchai Phuthong) said that the Second Army now would have the duty to explain to the border people on the ruling and to ensure their safety.

Ahem, the people living in the area wouldn't have a problem with their safety if the troops were pulled out, as instructed by the ICJ.

[JoeThePoster]

Thai management style rule # 143728 - When in a hole, keep digging, there might be a way out on the other side.

Edited November 12, 2013 by JoeThePoster

[winstonc]

i understand troops being there until the mad nationalists are kept away...then leave at night so no-one can see you skulking away with your tail between your legs...great country.but they dont make it easy on themselves.......bless.....

[laurentbkk]

so means they are against what the ICJ said yesterday ? but I thought the government accepted the ruling in favor for Cambodia ? Strange move ....

[whybother]

I remember a big fuss being made when Abhisit decided not to immediately withdraw troops in 2011.

[Local Drunk]

Thaksin gave Preah Vihear to Sen as part of a deal for oil and gas concessions in the gulf that personally profited them both.

I accept this as fact but now we see see both the fearless leader and Sondhi with the same opinion... Is orange the next colour of political despotism?

[Pi Sek]

Upon seeing this, I thought this decision would come from Gen Prayuth flexing his imaginary muscles. But it's not, it comes from the Defence Ministry, which is headed by our esteemed Prime Minister.

[GentlemanJim]

There has just been an international ruling that says the Thais are now on an others sovereign territory. It does not seem up for negotiation, there is no choice, pack up, leave and retain at least a little dignity. Yingluck is obviously scared of the nationalist backlash when the TV media show Thai troops withdrawing from the border with their tails between their legs. Catch 22 created by you know who.

Does everybody think Yingluck made that decision as Minister of Defence. With her in that position, Thaksin also has direct control of the Military. Pity he will be Billy no mates soon.

Edited November 12, 2013 by GentlemanJim

[impulse]

Thaksin gave Preah Vihear to Sen as part of a deal for oil and gas concessions in the gulf that personally profited them both.

I'm not disputing your statement, because I just don't know.

Got anything to back it up? Being in the oil biz, I'm curious about things like that.

[Neilly]

Thaksin also has direct control of the Military. Pity he will be Billy no mates soon.

[Morakot]

Of course not YET!

Everything needs to go through a committee first; normal procedure.

[fab4]

Thaksin gave Preah Vihear to Sen as part of a deal for oil and gas concessions in the gulf that personally profited them both.

I accept this as fact but now we see see both the fearless leader and Sondhi with the same opinion... Is orange the next colour of political despotism?

These personal deals that everybody knows about but never provide proof of - Care to help us out there?

He said Abhisit and Thai "yellow shirt" group have repeatedly claimed that former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has " mysterious advantage" with Cambodia on the negotiation of the area of overlapping maritime claim.

They also alleged that the current Thai government was loosening struggle on the overland dispute, especially the Preah Vihear temple area, in order to get benefits from the overlapping maritime oil and gas area, Hun Sen said.

"You, Abhisit, should show evidence to prove your allegations whether what benefits Thaksin gets from Cambodia. If you have no evidence, it means that you are cheating more than 60 million Thais and over 14 million Cambodians," he said. "This is your dirty politics."

http://www.dap-news.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10024:cambodian-pm-blasts-former-thai-pm-abhisit-for-involving-cambodia-in-thai-internal-conflict&catid=1:local-news&Itemid=18

Mr Surapong said his government has not held any negotiations about the zone with Cambodia as it is a sensitive issue.

He said he was afraid the issue would be whipped up politically by some anti-government groups.

Mr Surapong insisted the government has not held talks about the issue since the Abhisit government ordered the Foreign Affairs Ministry to scrap the Memorandum of Understanding on the overlapping area in November 2009.

The then government issued the order after former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban visited Cambodia in June 2009 in an attempt to negotiate the overlapping marine zone.

"I want to make the same demand as Hun Sen did. Mr Abhisit must provide evidence proving Thaksin is involved," Mr Surapong said.

"Today, we have to stay with the facts. I don't want to drag it into politics."

http://khmerization.blogspot.com/2013/01/abhisit-stands-by-thaksin-oil-gas-deal.html

Edited November 12, 2013 by fab4

[Sheryl]

Thaksin gave Preah Vihear to Sen as part of a deal for oil and gas concessions in the gulf that personally profited them both.

I accept this as fact but now we see see both the fearless leader and Sondhi with the same opinion... Is orange the next colour of political despotism?

Taksin most definitely did not "give" Preah Vihear to HunSen.

Preah Vihear has always belonged to Cambodia and a ruling in 1962 by the ICJ confirmed this.

Taksin and Hun Sen had worked out a deal regarding temple management based on the fact that Cambodia owned the temple but Thailand owned the easiest access to it. As bad as these two characters are (very bad IMO) the concept was reasonable and a win win. However the agreement -- as well as the plan to share oil revenues -- was immediately scrapped after the coup, and remains scrapped.

This court case had nothing to do with ownership of the temple. It was about a small scrap of land around the temple which no one lives on and which has no utility other than for access to the temple from Thailand and potentially development as part of attractions at the temple. Even if Thailand had totally won the ruling (they did in fact win about 75% of it), doesn't do them an iota of good. This is all political smoke and mirros.

[wayned]

In 1962 the IJC adjudged that the temple belonged to Cambodia. That was 51 years ago, why should they be in a hurry to pull out now? Sounds like the same children that are playing games in Parliament with the amnesty bill.

Edited November 12, 2013 by wayned

[simple1]

I remember a big fuss being made when Abhisit decided not to immediately withdraw troops in 2011.

Did the ICJ state a timeline for the Thai troop withdrawal? The other newspaper quotes an unnamed military source that Thai troops will withdraw in the "next year or so"

[Theoutsider]

i blame the french

[Trembly]

Nothing to see here.

Yingluck / Thaksin are probably too preoccupied with the amnesty bill to consider (for maximum political gain) giving the order to the General commanding the 2nd Army at the moment. Until he gets an order to do otherwise he will stay exactly where he is. His Cambodian opposite number will understand and no doubt, so does Hun Sen.

The Cambodians reiterated the call to withdraw forces as per form after the ruling, but they don't seem to be seriously making a fuss about it.

Move along . . .

Edited November 12, 2013 by Trembly

[Theoutsider]

i blame the french

and us

[Theoutsider]

i blame the french

and us

Historical claims over territory

[whybother]

Taksin most definitely did not "give" Preah Vihear to HunSen.

Preah Vihear has always belonged to Cambodia and a ruling in 1962 by the ICJ confirmed this.

Taksin and Hun Sen had worked out a deal regarding temple management based on the fact that Cambodia owned the temple but Thailand owned the easiest access to it. As bad as these two characters are (very bad IMO) the concept was reasonable and a win win. However the agreement -- as well as the plan to share oil revenues -- was immediately scrapped after the coup, and remains scrapped.

This court case had nothing to do with ownership of the temple. It was about a small scrap of land around the temple which no one lives on and which has no utility other than for access to the temple from Thailand and potentially development as part of attractions at the temple. Even if Thailand had totally won the ruling (they did in fact win about 75% of it), doesn't do them an iota of good. This is all political smoke and mirros.

I wouldn't say "always belonged to Cambodia". It was in Thailand for a few centuries. A 1904 treaty also put it in Thailand. The maps that were later attached to that treaty put it in Cambodia. In 1962, the ICJ decided that Thailand "accepted" the maps. The ICJ just confirmed that ruling.

[Sheryl]

Actually the ICJ ruling only called for withdrawal of Thai troops from the temple promontory, not the entire surrounding area.

It is not clear to me that there are currently any Thai troops on the promontory itself but I suspect not.

Nothing to stop Thailand from keeping troops on the land below the promontory. As it is a border area in the normal course of things there would be at least some military presence.

[Theoutsider]

Garnier-Lagree expedition

[Felt 35]

What to expect in a country where the highlights of history and daily life are military coups and violence.

[OZEMADE]

Actually the ICJ ruling only called for withdrawal of Thai troops from the temple promontory, not the entire surrounding area.

It is not clear to me that there are currently any Thai troops on the promontory itself but I suspect not.

Nothing to stop Thailand from keeping troops on the land below the promontory. As it is a border area in the normal course of things there would be at least some military presence.

I would imagine the troops from both sides will be there for some time yet, as they have to prepare the area for Tourism and any other religious functions that will take place there. By preparing the area, I mean remove all barriers, barbed and razor wire, land mines and claymore mines, booby traps etc. They are there as troops from both sides have been killed by the mines that were laid by both Armies'.

[Theoutsider]

What to expect in a country where the highlights of history and daily life are military coups and violence.

what about the the great war, did you mark our silence?