United Airlines Cancelling Tokyo- BKK flights next year

[GAS]

News out today in a presentation to investors, also word UA staff at BKK being told they will be laid off sometime in March or April I think....I hope this is incorrect but seems solid, the seasonal 744 is going away in the schedule to a 2 class CO 777...and then nothing I guess...

Not sure what is going to happen but after the major Mileage Plus deval just announced I may be looking for another way to BKK from the states. Not going to fly codeshare in Y on ANA from NRT.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-19/united-to-trim-2-billion-in-costs-in-shareholder-return-plan.html

Edited November 20, 2013 by GAS

[maxman71]

Crap...the LAX (or SFO) to BKK via Tokyo (and then going back) has been a great flight for me going back 11 years. We'll see how UA plans to route travelers across the Pacific to BKK; maybe to Tokyo, then Seoul, then BKK ? Means another stopover.

Thai Airways has a flight from LAX to BKK via Seoul s an alternative.

This is not a huge deal, but just means a change of routing; I seriously doubt UA will not provide flights from the US west coast to BKK.

The bigger consequence looming with all of UA's cost cutting, higher fee revenue and 20% higher productivity from employees (translation: they're going to cut heads), is look for the total cost of tickets to go up.

[GAS]

UA will codeshare with NH so there will be flights to BKK from NRT no problem...but for us very loyal UA fliers no more using upgrades on the 6.5 hour flight from NRT, no more 3 bag allowance (maybe), no more million mile status or elite bonus miles. It is a pretty big deal...and that does not even get into situations where there are irrops.

[Sam Drucker]

According to everything I read, the announcement is in fact that United is pulling out of Bangkok in early 2014. They even already mentioned in connection with this and other down-gauging on the Asian system that they are deploying aircraft freed-up as a result from the Asian system over to European routes.

My speculation is that the yields were not enough on the Tokyo-Bangkok sector. Too many low-fare leisure travelers. They certainly didn't have a problem filling 747's.

The situation somewhat reminds me of Northwest Airlines back in 2004. As they took delivery of new A330's, they started substituting them for 747's on some trans-pac routes to Tokyo, and also on Tokyo-Bangkok. Northwest never had problems filling the 747's from Tokyo to Bangkok, and in fact it got me "op-up" upgrades into Business Class several times (due to oversold coach and undersold Business Class.) When Northwest switched to the A330-200's, they cut the number of seats they had going to BKK by about 40%. After that, fares steadily rose. They cut costs and substantially improved yields with that one move.

Don't know why United doesn't just try the same thing and down-gauge to 777s or even 767s? United seems to want to leverage their Star Alliance partners now for getting passengers on the final leg to Bangkok after they pull out. I keep hearing comments about ANA's coach seat pitch being pretty brutal. I think I'd go with THAI via LAX or Seoul, or use Asiana via Seoul (if I needed to stay with Star Alliance.)

Though I don't like what the US Airline industry has become after all the mergers of the past 5 years, Delta seems to be firing on all cylinders. Seems like Smisek is in over his head at United.

[rfukata]

"My speculation is that the yields were not enough on the Tokyo-Bangkok sector"

As I am also a frequent flyer on this particular route (NRT-BKK), I would lean on the yields' rationale as well.

Just look how many daily NRT-BKK flights there are with Star Alliance partners, compared to only 1 UA direct

​flight connection from NRT to BKK. This makes this particular segment highly competitive for revenue.

[BKKdreaming]

hate to see it go, will have to rethink putting miles in my United account as they also upped the USA-BKK flights to 80,000 miles (not UA but Star alliance partners) from 65,000 miles on the now not available United flight.....

ohh well , might have to fly cheaper flights to Hong Kong etc when available and then a HK to BKK flight on AirAsia type airline

[lomatopo]

It looks like the last flight may be 30 March 2014.

I have some ticketed reservations beyond that date which still show. But assume those will get re-issued?

UA has been switching 747es and 777es on NRT-BKK seasonally for several years now.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-mileageplus-consolidated/1523590-ua-eliminate-nrt-bkk-747-service-ua837-ua838.html

[OMGImInPattaya]

Is this really an issue...like they do now, won't they just codeshare with ANA on the bkk-NRT sector and then onto UA planes to the states? I've taken UA bkk-SFO 3-4times over the past couple years and on UA metal all the way...will be interesting to see the fare using ANA metal.

For me, EVA will always be an alternative on this route.

[gchurch259]

My "Two Cents Worth". I am retired from UAL and do not even try to fly on a pass between BKK & NRT, almost always over booked and only one flight. I have worked for Delta, Eastern, United, US Airways and Northwest over my career with the industry. I fly Thai or EVA almost everywhere I go with my Aircraft Consulting business. I do not work for or receive anything from EVA, but they have the best maintained aircraft and very nice crews on their flights. They fly from BKK to Taipei and connect to JFK, LAX, JFK, SFO and Vancouver. Their Internet fares are pretty good, By the way, they also fly to Europe.

How do I know about aircraft maintenance? I have been a Mechanic, Foreman, Manager and Reignal Manager of Aircraft Maintenance and still do consulting on commercial aircraft from 1966 till now. Fly Safe and Enjoy !!

Jerry

[rotary]

This is a real personal thing here, and there will be different opinions but, from flying quite a bit since 1981.........if it has an American flag on the tail I try to not use it. Poor service, ugly hostess that are hostile in many cases, some sectors charging for a beer, excessive lost baggage, etc are just a few of the reasons. Every time I break that rule to save $200 I regret it at flight time.

[gchurch259]

Sorry I misspelled Regional Manager on my previous comment!! Guess I need to use spell correcter.

Jerry

[squarethecircle]

This is a real personal thing here, and there will be different opinions but, from flying quite a bit since 1981.........if it has an American flag on the tail I try to not use it. Poor service, ugly hostess that are hostile in many cases, some sectors charging for a beer, excessive lost baggage, etc are just a few of the reasons. Every time I break that rule to save $200 I regret it at flight time.

Same for me. Flying in Asia is far more pleasant than in the States IMO, and not just due to the better security (no TSA) here.

[lomatopo]

Is this really an issue...like they do now, won't they just codeshare with ANA on the bkk-NRT sector and then onto UA planes to the states? I've taken UA bkk-SFO 3-4times over the past couple years and on UA metal all the way...will be interesting to see the fare using ANA metal.

For me, EVA will always be an alternative on this route.

I think the issue is that with demand fixed (one could argue it will increase), supply (of seats) will decrease leading to an increase in fares. Also mis-alignment with connections at NRT, poor seating pitch on NH (767), no upgrades, no FF bonuses. If UA code-shared with TG this might be more palatable, but the UA/NH JV means just code-shares with NH for NRT-BKK.

Am now hearing the last flight in is 8 May, last flight out is 9 May.

Staff (CTO, airport ops.) in BKK have been told, and will be terminated.

UA launched service to BKK back in February, 1986 when PanAm transferred their TPAC ops. So the end of a decent 28-year run.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Only problem with EVA, at least to West coast USA is their departure and arrival times mostly suck on both ends. Well, that and their food is not anything to write home about. (Don't know about new Royal class service as not yet had chance to try it.)

[OMGImInPattaya]

This is a real personal thing here, and there will be different opinions but, from flying quite a bit since 1981.........if it has an American flag on the tail I try to not use it. Poor service, ugly hostess that are hostile in many cases, some sectors charging for a beer, excessive lost baggage, etc are just a few of the reasons. Every time I break that rule to save $200 I regret it at flight time.

How about to save 2k on the transpacific routes?

[snooky]

Been using EVA for US trips - best service recently however, I checked the other day for flights during spring and they have raised their requirements for premium economy from about $400 over coach price to over $1000 plus now. Big jump!

[bonobo]

I was just checking prices for flights earlier today, and UA 838 is still in the system for August.

[lomatopo]

I was just checking prices for flights earlier today, and UA 838 is still in the system for August.

Announcement came yesterday via (initially) a financial conference call, believe implementation is following, including adjusting the CRES and GDS. Unfortunate they are still selling tickets, but you'll be able to refund/re-ticket.

Again, local staff have been informed that the last flight in will be 8 May and the last flight out will be on 9 May. But then, initially I heard 30/31 March, so expect some fluidity here.

[radfem]

This may explain my issue. I have been trying to change the dates of a round trip flight. All Nippon from US and United from BKK. When I purchased the ticket in May, for the high peak time of December, I paid just over $1600. Now, I am having a very hard time getting a quote from the same airlines less than $3000, and as high as $4000. I am trying to reschedule between March and May. Booked through Travelocity. No good. Grrrr.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[JepSoDii]

I just want to add my own personal disappointment. I've been using this flight for 15 years. I now recognize that coming to Thailand as a 27 year old back then was a life changing experience for me, and this flight brought me here every time in the early days. Back then, I was an employee of United, and used this flight 4-5 x per year as I focused my newfound addiction to travel in SE Asia, stopping first in BKK and traveling around Thailand often, while other times hubbing through BKK before setting off to other destinations in the region. I also made some Thai friends on that flight that remain today. So that, plus the frequency which I flew this route, and having worked for the airline 9 years, adds up to feeling like this is a personal loss to me. This flight has been like a symbol to me of the life changing travel experiences that working for the airline gave me.

*****

These days, as a customer, I don't always care if I am on this flight (partner airlines are generally better if you can upgrade), as we all know what has happened to the US airline industry the past decade+, but it's still been a great flight, especially when they had Thai crew.

Clearly it's not about cheeks in seats; it's about yields, as SamDrucker accurately says. That means if freight revenue booked on the flight, plus revenue derived from the sale of premium (business class purchased at business class fares) seats does not reach a certain level, then the flight is either not profitable, or it is lightly profitable but the aircraft dedicated to it would be more profitable if deployed on other routes. My airline experience tells me the latter is the case on this United route.

Especially these days with jet fuel so expensive, as an airline, you simply can't derive high yields from economy tickets, especially on a flight like NRT-BKK, which is only 1 of 3 segments flown for most customers on this route (e.g., their USD $900-1200 avg fare has to be allocated across the 3 flights they took, and the bulk of it is attributed to the transpac). And there just aren't a lot of high/unrestricted economy fares or business class fares being sold in this market. Those that do sell, tend to go to be spread among all the airlines operating this route.

True, a 777 is a higher yield aircraft, and I too, wish they had found a way to keep this route with a dedicated 777. I'd have preferred to see UA deploy the 747s and get more 777s for marginal routes like these, but I have said this over and over again over the years when UA pulled out of routes, like JFK-HKG, LAX-HKG, all DEL flights, etc., the list goes on. But aircraft availability is a reality in this business. They can't just order one more 777 to replace a redeployed 47; planes are ordered in quantity and have years of lead time. So this flight may return in the future with a fleet realignment, but don't look for it to happen for a few more years at least, when there are a lot more 787s for example, in the United fleet.

[GinBoy2]

I stopped using both UA & Thai several years ago for flights to California. Thai, waaaaaay too expensive, especially after they cancelled the non stop to LAX. UA, the layover in NRT is far too long. China Airlines has a decent flight connecting through Taipei, good pricing and quick connection.

[ripper15]

I plan to use Cathy Pacific for my next flight. ORD to HKG then on to Chiang Mai. All fares from http://matrix.itasoftware.com/search.htm and their home site come out at the low end of the scale. Cathy also has consistently been rated at the top end of service. Does anyone have any experience with this flight this flight and route?

Edited November 21, 2013 by ripper15

[prog]

I think the issue is that with demand fixed (one could argue it will increase), supply (of seats) will decrease leading to an increase in fares. Also mis-alignment with connections at NRT, poor seating pitch on NH (767), no upgrades, no FF bonuses. If UA code-shared with TG this might be more palatable, but the UA/NH JV means just code-shares with NH for NRT-BKK.

Am now hearing the last flight in is 8 May, last flight out is 9 May.

I hope that the May date is accurate since I have a flight out on Songkran and am returning early May. I would 100 times over prefer the UA flight over ANA with my family configuration.

Any chance that ANA will have an earlier leaving flight so that the UA connections could possibly be made? UA would be COMPLETELY abandoning BKK if they would not.

[OMGImInPattaya]

I stopped using both UA & Thai several years ago for flights to California. Thai, waaaaaay too expensive, especially after they cancelled the non stop to LAX. UA, the layover in NRT is far too long. China Airlines has a decent flight connecting through Taipei, good pricing and quick connection.

For connecting flights to SFO the layover us usually 2 hours; and it's 2 or 4 on the return. That's long?

[OMGImInPattaya]

I plan to use Cathy Pacific for my next flight. ORD to HKG then on to Chiang Mai. All fares from http://matrix.itasoftware.com/search.htm and their home site come out at the low end of the scale. Cathy also has consistently been rated at the top end of service. Does anyone have any experience with this flight this flight and route?

That site seems high to me...I can book UA to SFO for early December direct for about 100k, whereas the cheapest they show is Delta for like 136 and they have UA for about 190k!

[Benmart]

This is a real personal thing here, and there will be different opinions but, from flying quite a bit since 1981.........if it has an American flag on the tail I try to not use it. Poor service, ugly hostess that are hostile in many cases, some sectors charging for a beer, excessive lost baggage, etc are just a few of the reasons. Every time I break that rule to save $200 I regret it at flight time.

I agree with most of your points.

However, "Ugly" is such a...well, ugly word when describing a person. I try not to make decisions on which carrier I fly based on the beauty or eye appeal of the flight crew, but if that is what some people do, that's okay too. Some of the best cabin crew I've experienced, were, in my eyes rather ordinary in the looks department. (Much like me).

I've seen many more passengers that were loud, demanding, threatening, drunk, beligerent than I have of any flight crew exhibiting those behaviors. I've been flying since the 60s and have had some unfriendly and rude cabin attendants, but they are in the minority and quickly forgotten. The good ones always stay in my memory banks.

I do fly foreign carriers and avoid the "others" based on safety, maintenance, connections, one-time record, cost, food, comfort, amenities, etc.

EVA and CP get my vote.

One Day at a Time.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Benmart

[BKKdreaming]

I fly to get to where I want to go, I try and sleep most of the time, eat the meals , only a few meals have been horrible over 40 years flying ,

I am always in the cheap seats , unless I get a free upgrade , which is nice but something I would not pay the $500-$5000 extra for Biz class or First

But I do like my awards miles ! And they are getting harder to get by just flying ! and they do not go as far as before either !

its not going to stop me from flying , and with one less airline I am sure prices will go up some......

[nomad127]

Getting a bit difficult (and pricey) to fly from the USA to Thailand. I am an AAdvantage member and always took the DFW-NRT-BKK route that code shares with JAL for around 1k USD. Since they merged with US Airways though, this flight is not advertised on their website anymore, but rather a code share with Cathay Pacific out of Hong Kong for around 3k one way. Totally absurd.

[mikeSilom]

UA leaving BKK gave me more than a few moments today to rethink what I would do with those miles I was planning to use next year. I can think of a lot if reasons to use them on the other *A flights in Asia but as I was looking at my options I started to wonder if we're getting complete information.

Looked at flights in April up to about the 4th - UA838 747 BKK to NRT. On April 9 and till about the first week in May they're showing flight UA6 BKK-NRT, 777-200. Then on May 9, back to UA838 but now a 777-200. Same in June.

It just seems like bad business to make that kind of announcement and still be showing flights available. Of course a few more 'unfriendly skies' from UA wouldn't be a shocker.

[BKKdreaming]

UA leaving BKK gave me more than a few moments today to rethink what I would do with those miles I was planning to use next year. I can think of a lot if reasons to use them on the other *A flights in Asia but as I was looking at my options I started to wonder if we're getting complete information.

Looked at flights in April up to about the 4th - UA838 747 BKK to NRT. On April 9 and till about the first week in May they're showing flight UA6 BKK-NRT, 777-200. Then on May 9, back to UA838 but now a 777-200. Same in June.

It just seems like bad business to make that kind of announcement and still be showing flights available. Of course a few more 'unfriendly skies' from UA wouldn't be a shocker.

United is also changing how many miles you need for partner flights , so book before they change. USA -BKK goes up to 80K miles on the partner airline