Already working, but looking to open additional business - need info! :)

[Ivn]

Dear all, this is my first post, therefore go easy on me!

I am working a full-time job at an international company in Bangkok. It takes good 10-11 hours of my day, but I still do have a bit left after the day. My Thai collegues are all doing their own thing on the side, like a guesthouse, a steakhouse, a small tea shop, etc., which naturally got me thinking to do the same.

As I do have an official work permit and a Non-B visa already, which was covered by the company I work for, am I allowed to start up anything on the side? Would it be considered illegal? Meaning, that does having a work permit from the current company would limit me to start up anything else?

If yes, then the next question is, if I were to open a small coffee/tea/snack shop with my Thai boyfriend (yes, I'm a farang girl), who would be in the papers and I wouldn't be (I know, I know, it sounds interesting, but please don't start about that he'll kick me off one day, because the personal issues is not the question here, so let's get back to the topic ). So if the shop is under a Thai name, but I'm or both of us are the ones sitting behind the counter, would that start the police or other authorities getting interested in questioning my being there? If I'm officially employed at a different company, but casually "helping" my boyfriend run the shop on my days off or after work, would that be considered illegal?

The Thai law is complicated, so I would be interested to hear advices, experiences and may be some tips too! I've lived in Thailand for the past 8 years, but have just started working, as I was studying before.

Please be nice and helpful in your answers! Thank you and have a nice evening!

Ivn

[ukrules]

There is nothing complicated about it.

You would be working without a permit and be subject to immediate imprisonment and subsequent deportation without mercy.

[Ivn]

There is nothing complicated about it.

You would be working without a permit and be subject to immediate imprisonment and subsequent deportation without mercy.

My apologies for being clueless, but as I already have one working permit from one company, how should an additional working permit work?

[transam]

There is nothing complicated about it.

You would be working without a permit and be subject to immediate imprisonment and subsequent deportation without mercy.

My apologies for being clueless, but as I already have one working permit from one company, how should an additional working permit work?

Your WP covers you for the job you do, nothing else.

[Showbags]

Agree.

My wife often asks me to work, take the rubbish out, weed the garden and shit like that, but sadly I do not have a WP to cover it all, so alas ...

[ukrules]

There is nothing complicated about it.

You would be working without a permit and be subject to immediate imprisonment and subsequent deportation without mercy.

My apologies for being clueless, but as I already have one working permit from one company, how should an additional working permit work?

That would be a reasonable assumption to make but it's sadly not the case in Thailand.

There's nothing to prevent you from starting the business, working there would be harder.

I don't know if getting two work permits is in any way possible, however it's worth noting that work permits are generally issued for jobs which are a bit higher up the paysale than helping out in a shop.

If you were the manager and had a bunch of Thai staff and went through the company formation process you could do it that way if two work permits are possible.

[Ulysses G.]

If you form a company with your Thai boyfriend and hire 4 employees, you could get a work permit and a one year visa - at least that is how it works in Chiang Mai. You have to pay a lot of taxes though, for your own (supposed) salary. .

[Ivn]

There is nothing complicated about it.

You would be working without a permit and be subject to immediate imprisonment and subsequent deportation without mercy.

My apologies for being clueless, but as I already have one working permit from one company, how should an additional working permit work?

Your WP covers you for the job you do, nothing else.

Yes, makes sense. How about the Non-B visa? So is it possible to get multiple WPs on that? There must be a legal way around the limit to being allowed to work in just a single place!

[ukrules]

There is nothing complicated about it.

You would be working without a permit and be subject to immediate imprisonment and subsequent deportation without mercy.

My apologies for being clueless, but as I already have one working permit from one company, how should an additional working permit work?

Your WP covers you for the job you do, nothing else.

Yes, makes sense. How about the Non-B visa? So is it possible to get multiple WPs on that? There must be a legal way around the limit to being allowed to work in just a single place!

As for multiple work permits you would have to consult with immigration lawyers.

If it's possible to somehow get two active work permits then you would need to work for a 'proper' company with at least 4 Thai employees, etc. Minimum salary levels apply as well. There's lots of information on company formation an work permits on this forum.

However I suspect the issue here is going to be having more than one work permit.

[bifftastic]

You would have to apply for a work permit to cover your new job. That job would have to be one that wasn't on the list of jobs restricted to Thai nationals only, and you would also have to demonstrate that a Thai national couldn't do that job.

I think that pretty much rules out serving coffee, I'm afraid.

You could be international sales director? Or Vice president of inter-continental English language based coffee bean outsourcing?

But sitting behind the counter serving up mocha-chocca whip de doo dahs....I don't think you can legally do that.

[Ivn]

Thanks! Multiple WPs is actually my first time hearing!

Would you have any recommendation for the immigration office to go for setting up businesses? Some immigration places are nasty and very unhelpful, however I've met some wonderful Thai immigration officers that have done brilliant work with my visa and WP!

Edited November 22, 2013 by Ivn

[ukrules]

Speak to the experts - Sunbelt Asia http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com - they do company formations and will be able to find out anything you need to know regarding work permits, etc.

[recycler]

Your workpermit is only valid for the company and the address where it is located. Strictly speaking you could even be arrested when visiting a customer of your employer. Working with permits for over 9 years I've never been asked to show it, but visible work in a public place like a restaurant could get you in trouble sooner I presume.

Next to that the minimum wage required for a workpermit is likely too high for a restaurant or coffee shop to carry and there is no work in a coffee shop or small restaurant that would justify a foreign employee. Workpermits for foreigners are only issued for work that Thais can't do.

So your option is to sit in the place and let your boyfriend do the work, I see many foreigners do that.

[bifftastic]

Thanks! Multiple WPs is actually my first time hearing!

Would you have any recommendation for the immigration office to go for setting up businesses? Some immigration places are nasty and very unhelpful, however I've met some wonderful Thai immigration officers that have done brilliant work with my visa and WP!

Seeing as you've already got a valid visa, I don't think an immigration office is where you should be going. I think their interest in you ends there (you have a visa already, anything else is outside their remit).

As suggested, you probably need a lawyer to advise you what work you can and can't do.

If you and your husband have already decided to run a coffee shop, you can probably save the lawyers fees and just google the list of restricted jobs for foreigners in Thailand, show it to your husband, smile, mention that you would love to help but unfortunately the Thai government doesn't allow it and just carry on working 11 hours a day in the job you have.

Seriously, you want to do more work than 11 hours a day?

Personally I think you need less coffee, not more!

[DGIE]

I admire you of your zeal in having additional income(?).

but, oh my... I don't think sitting behind the counter or doing the cashier work for example, and the policemen will come to catch you and ask for your additional work permit. Your bf will not dare to call the police for sure.

[sirchai]

Anything a Thai citizen could do isn't allowed for foreigners. Your work permit and visa is just for the particular job you're doing right now.

Why would you like to spend a lot of money, to buy yourself some problems? You wrote that you've already got an 11 hour day, so what's the point of opening a shop in your name?

If your bf can open it, why don't you try that first? Most businesses don't really work well, especially those where a foreigner and a Thai are involved.

How long have you been doing this job? Ever thought about online teaching, or other possibilities? It's not worth the hassle to open up a shop where you'd only invest money.

Good luck.-

Edited November 23, 2013 by sirchai

[mallyrd]

Your workpermit is only valid for the company and the address where it is located. Strictly speaking you could even be arrested when visiting a customer of your employer. Working with permits for over 9 years I've never been asked to show it, but visible work in a public place like a restaurant could get you in trouble sooner I presume.

Next to that the minimum wage required for a workpermit is likely too high for a restaurant or coffee shop to carry and there is no work in a coffee shop or small restaurant that would justify a foreign employee. Workpermits for foreigners are only issued for work that Thais can't do.

So your option is to sit in the place and let your boyfriend do the work, I see many foreigners do that.

The content of your first sentence is not correct. There is a facility within the work permit where you can add additional locations.

[Naam]

There is nothing complicated about it.

You would be working without a permit and be subject to immediate imprisonment and subsequent deportation without mercy.

that applies only to ugly Farang girls. not to extremely good looking ones like the OP.

[FritsSikkink]

Thanks! Multiple WPs is actually my first time hearing!

Would you have any recommendation for the immigration office to go for setting up businesses? Some immigration places are nasty and very unhelpful, however I've met some wonderful Thai immigration officers that have done brilliant work with my visa and WP!

Immigration has nothing to do with setting up a business. Go and see a lawyer.

[brit1984]

you can set up a private limited company with you (and your partner) having minority (and majority) shareholdings - you do not need a work permit to be a shareholder

as you are working (legally and transparently) full time you have evidence that you are not "working" in the new company if you ever need to prove it (which will most likely never happen)

notwithstanding the lack of legal barriers, i recommend not to start any new venture until you have found someone (with the necessary skills, experience, track record, etc) to operate the business day-to-day

i also recommend (regardless of how much boasting your colleagues do about their business empires "on the side") try NOT to discuss your involvement in / commitments to any other commercial activities

good luck

[Sophiafluke]

If you already have a work permit with your main job I don't think sitting behide the counter or serving some food for a few hours a day would be illegal. Your boyfriend will be the owner of the shop and not you. You only help him. You don't get a salary. Besides that I don't think anyone will be concerned with a small coffe shop of a Thai owner. More over people must admire you for not just sitting and do nothing!

My niece has a coffee shop and her husband who works as a teacher always give her a hand. Moreover foreigner customers like to talk with him too and are glad to have someone to introduce nice food to them. Most of custmers have become friends with them and are regular customers since the first time. Some eve naked for recipes when they moved to other country so that they can make their own food at home.

I will enquire about this matter with my company lawyer. Hope they will give me positive answer.

I wish you both good luck in your future busininess.

[asiaexpat]

Not withstanding all the fantastic advice you have already received (mostly BS) one can add additional jobs and work locations to an existing work permit with the permission of the original employer. Depending on your nationality, setting up a Thai Limited Company can be time consuming and costly and you will only be able to have a 49% stake in the company. However, your Thai boyfriend can form a business, be it sole proprietor, partnership, or Limited Company rather easily. The simple way to accomplish your goal would seem to be to have your boyfriend establish a company and hire you in a management position. You can then ask for permission from your current employer to modify your work permit to add the new job and location. You will likely get better responses by posting in the visa/work permit forum.

[Ivn]

Wonderful! All of you have given some really interesting tips that I will definitely look into putting to use!

Although, I already have a 10-11 hour job, investing into something you have created on your own, is always such an acomplishment as well as a good/bad experience. Either way, I see that I will be needing a lawyer's advice to make sure of the laws, plus my companie's approval if I can do outside business too. Thank you all! enjoy your evening!

Edited November 23, 2013 by Ivn

[soundman]

Off topic post removed.

[elliottm]

Your workpermit is only valid for the company and the address where it is located. Strictly speaking you could even be arrested when visiting a customer of your employer. Working with permits for over 9 years I've never been asked to show it, but visible work in a public place like a restaurant could get you in trouble sooner I presume.

Next to that the minimum wage required for a workpermit is likely too high for a restaurant or coffee shop to carry and there is no work in a coffee shop or small restaurant that would justify a foreign employee. Workpermits for foreigners are only issued for work that Thais can't do.

So your option is to sit in the place and let your boyfriend do the work, I see many foreigners do that.

Exactly, what I'm going to have to do with our forthcoming shoe shop - or rather, do every other (non-shop/selling) chore so the wife can sit chatting with the other shop ladies & playing on Line!

[elliottm]

Thanks! Multiple WPs is actually my first time hearing!

Would you have any recommendation for the immigration office to go for setting up businesses? Some immigration places are nasty and very unhelpful, however I've met some wonderful Thai immigration officers that have done brilliant work with my visa and WP!

You need to go to the immigration office designated to your address, where would the shop be?

I'm still reading through the thread, but shop attendant is on the proscribed list (reserved for Thais only) and even accounting is if you were looking at running the finance side of the business.

I've been looking into this extensively in relation to starting a shoe shop with the wife & soon realised I'm not even able to take the shoes out in the morning!

So I'll be set up in the same office/break-out space but essentially doing all the non-shop chores so the wife can focus exclusively on serving the customers.

If multiple WPs are allowed, you'll need to set up a company structure paying salaries/taxes for 4 Thai employees, taxes on your own (50,000 per month) salary and come up with a relevant job description for why foreign expertise is required in a coffee shop (excluding bean counter).