Personal experience of corruption

[Hedghog]

Don't worry, when people wake up they will post.

Remember, the vast majority of experts on TV are not even in Thailand, so the time differences means they will start their posting in a few hours time.

And many have never been to Thailand. But that don't stop em posting.

Same as me then.

Still saving the pennies in a bottle.

For my first trip,what's it really like?

[dao16]

I am definitely here and, yeah, it is weird that you are asking for rejected cases. I am sure there are some. I know that many (all?) of the Thai embassies abroad are very honest and will tell you the score, which relates to the time that I .....

....needed a document from the Ampur office. The guy wanted 30,000 baht because he knew I was a foreigner. I was not in Thailand. Called the embassy. They said it is a free document, but that I could "tip" the immigration official 20 baht or something for their hard work but that the 30,000 was a "bad man." A few trips back to find a good officer, we got the doc for free and the "bad man" was not pleased, but it was too late.

So, that was rejection refused by me and my wife, if that counts.

Have had many similar situations with the police. They want, I refuse, they get tired and let it go.

Ok, back to embassies.....I have an example of a Thai official refusing a not-really bribe. After getting married at the embassies (mine and hers...it took weeks) we thought it would be a nice gesture to get a box of fruit juices for the staff as a token of appreciation (paperwork was done--nothing to bribe, really) and they refused it, saying it was against the rules and that they were only their to perform their duties at no extra charge.

It goes to show that Thais definitely CAN adhere to a strict moral code when it comes to corruption, but it is a shame that inside the country it doesn't function like it does in some of the kingdom's foreign missions.

[drdoom6996]

Every time you go from HWY 7 Sukumvit in Pattaya to HWY 36 there is some BIB there to shake you down.

[seajae]

I have watched hundreds of thousands of baht being paid out to govt officials to allow a company to do its work legally, not illegally, they actually have to pay these "bonuses" each month to do their legal work or their business is delayed so that they lose a money in late fees, this is how the govt workers operate. My daughter is told by her teachers to pay them bonuses or they will not teach her, she goes to night classes every weeknight so she can learn and this is in a private school. Do I trust govt workers, no chance in hell but this is the thai culture, that is why there is so much interest in govt jobs and money exchanges hands to get them, once you have one you have your own personal gravy train. This is just the way it is, doesnt take anything away from why I love it here but its part of the lifestyle......

dont have a knock back but do have a knock down, bib stopped us just as we left a private driveway onto a highway and wanted 200 baht each as we didnt have our seat belts on but started talking to me and we chatted about Australia for a bit then said we only had to pay 100 each as I was an aussie, I thought it was a good deal

Edited November 26, 2013 by seajae

[draftvader]

Interesting that this news announcement has just come out as we debate this.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/684507-yingluck-insists-govt-fighting-corruption/?p=7085335

[Emdog]

The ex had to go to government land office for some issue about land deeds her family had (nothing to do with me, and we weren't married at the time). Officer said if she had sex with him, it would be processed more quickly. Perhaps she declined... I think she was telling the truth that one time.

[stewsan]

I purchased a condo via corp means, 10 years ago and sold it 2 years later for a wash. Zero profit. I told the lawyer to dissolve the corporation and never gave it another thought. Then we get a strange call, about 4 years later, that we owed taxes. The call came from a personal number and no letter from the Thai IRS. So then, after we found out this was really the IRS, they told us that 4 years of loss was considered profit and capital gain so we owed them 1.3 million. Our Thai lawyer obviously set this up and after a warrant was sent to my Thai wife, we brought the funds and an additional 300k for the lawyer for tea money. After all was said and done, or so we thought, my wife had to go to the police station to address the warrant. She had to pay another 20k tea Money and then the police Captain told her to go for lunch with him and do the get down and dirty. She texted me and I met them outside the police station and was told my wife could go but I needed to pay 1mil. Baht and if I didn't have the money now, I could pay 200k per month for 2 years. We have been liquidating our asset's and plan on moving. I'm sure this was a one off but it woke us up that we have too much wrapped up in Thailand.

[MJP]

I purchased a condo via corp means, 10 years ago and sold it 2 years later for a wash. Zero profit. I told the lawyer to dissolve the corporation and never gave it another thought. Then we get a strange call, about 4 years later, that we owed taxes. The call came from a personal number and no letter from the Thai IRS. So then, after we found out this was really the IRS, they told us that 4 years of loss was considered profit and capital gain so we owed them 1.3 million. Our Thai lawyer obviously set this up and after a warrant was sent to my Thai wife, we brought the funds and an additional 300k for the lawyer for tea money. After all was said and done, or so we thought, my wife had to go to the police station to address the warrant. She had to pay another 20k tea Money and then the police Captain told her to go for lunch with him and do the get down and dirty. She texted me and I met them outside the police station and was told my wife could go but I needed to pay 1mil. Baht and if I didn't have the money now, I could pay 200k per month for 2 years. We have been liquidating our asset's and plan on moving. I'm sure this was a one off but it woke us up that we have too much wrapped up in Thailand.

That's one of the worst I've heard yet.

I know this will draw fire here but I do urge forum members not to invest dime one in this country. It's purgatory all dressed up as paradise and it's very unstable. Arrive with suitcase, leave with suitcase.

[simple1]

Yes, some years back by a Thai government agency. I posted some details in a similar topic, but was immediately removed by mods. This site is monitored & is underlined by forum rule 6. Note below:

Regardless of the truthfulness or falsehood of the statement, once it became a source of an injury which caused damage to the victim, the defendant is liable.

..

Edited November 26, 2013 by simple1

[Colabamumbai]

In Thailand, surely you are joking.

Lets start with Sakhon Nakhon Immigration refusing to give change. Then they have their own price list for services, putting old stamps extensions in new passport $1,000 Baht, I refused to pay it is a free service.

Selling me a multiple re-entry permit and extending my visa at the same time 5,700 Baht, conveniently not putting the stamps in my passport and forgetting to give me a receipt.

The drunk cop on the highway demanding 300 Baht for being alive, no reason to stop me, the car, except that I am a foreigner, he could not even read the license, just kept telling me turn left when you get to Bangkok. I was 500 kms away from Bkk and had no intentions of going there.

A school director paying the Somdet Police 1,000 Baht and telling them to keep the change. This was on a bill of 400 Baht for their work doing the paperwork for a car accident, on my behalf. The officer tried to give her the change of 600 Baht and she told him to keep it.

I tried to explain to the director that this is where corruption starts, and a person of their standng should not be giving a 600 Baht tip for something that the police are paid to do. I had a 500 Baht note in my hand to pay the 400 Baht bill and I thought ok, if they want to keep the change they can. (so I am guilty myself), but she pulls out a thousand and does not let me pay.

The cop on the highway got 100Baht as there is always a hundred Baht note on the back of my license. I tell them that is all I have.

Where does it end.

But then there are the good people who refuse to take 30 or 40 Baht when they have helped me and I have offered and they refuse, I stuff it in a shirt pocket and tell them to get a coke or get their kids some ice cream tonight. The unknown person, the regular guy cannot imagine the big hassle he has just saved you from and does not expect anything in return.

[mikebell]

Thai lady rented a car from my wife's sister then disappeared for two years leaving the owner still paying the bank loan. When the villain re-appeared minus car, went to Jomtien police who sent us to Pattaya police who sent us back to Jomtien. Nothing could be done until a down payment of 10K was paid to a senior officer. They/we are still waiting for justice.

[slipperx]

Two kids on a motorcycle drove into the front of my parked (parked legally) and ended up over the road - 10,000 or charged with driving recklessly and criminal harm (meaning possible deportation) - paid

Arrest warrant issued by court, police refused to arrest - arranged by off duty police for 7,000 baht. But taken to police at Bangsue who demanded 45,000 for complying with arrest warrant to take to court out of Bangkok or would release the person. Happened to know a bigger policeman but still cost me 13,000 as they had no budget to transport arrested prisoners.

Many times had to pay for papers needed at court from the admin office - ranges from 100 to 6000 baht depending what's needed and how urgently.

Immigration Bangkok demanded income verification although required capital in bank for 6 months - local immigration wrote a letter - no charge and I got the visa. Willingly gave 1,000 for their help but they really did not want to take it - I insisted because that was not a bribe and given after the event.

Many 100 and 200 baths to police for traffic infractions - usually I was wrong so just pay to avoid license pick up hassle

Accountant falsely made up sales invoices and was overstating VAT. VAT office accepted money due back but refused to pay it back or reduce it because 'foreigners lucky to do business here' - it never did get resolved

Girl threw bottle outside nightclub hit my hand broke my watch. She was arguing with someone close by. I was arrested and girl with the person she was arguing with accused me of hitting her - I was not even involved - police arrested me - had to pay 1,000 or be arrested for assault! I don't bother going out much anymore so can avoid that particular one.

Asked for 10,000 for no music license infraction at a restaurant I was momentarily involved with. Showed them license and asked for 1,000 because otherwise they would have problem with their superior - paid it as didn't need the attention and they did look very sad!

Dozens more but then I have been here a while. So it's just a cost of living - bit like the council tax!

[scubascuba3]

 The ex had to go to government land office for some issue about land deeds her family had (nothing to do with me, and we weren't married at the time). Officer said if she had sex with him, it would be processed more quickly. Perhaps she declined... I think she was telling the truth that one time.

Was it processed quickly? :-)

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[NCFC]

Customs demanded 20k for our personal belongings or they threatened to leave our stuff on the dockside. Amphur refused me a yellow tabun baan unless I paid 5k. Same amphur wanted 5k to register my kid as a Thai. University wanted a backhander. A neighbour paid 100k for his wifeto be appointed school director. Same neighbour pays quarterly fees of several hundred thousand to beaurocrats for his government contract. The list is endless

[Showbags]

Several traffic donations of 200b

One no current visa in passport 100b

One build permit 5k

One address book 500b

One legal document declined donation.

Above legal document 1 year on 5000b

One marriage document 1000b declined

Visa donation 100b declined

Visa hurry up, unkown amount declined

Have someone bashed 5000b declined

Document signed 10000b

Another document signed 8000b

Customs 7000b

Title upgrade unkown amount for 3 month title upgrade Declined....3 years later got it

Document signatures were relatively important docs, not every day stuff and 'declines' were on my part.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Showbags

[stoli]

Ya Corruption all around Thailand

I was parked in a NO PARKING Zone and had just come back. The cop was booting my tire. So I go in the car and just before he was going to write the ticket out I said in Thai

How much He said 500 I said Oh sorry I only have 2 he said no and then put his pen on the paper and I said OK 300 that is all I have He put his hand in the window below the window ledge and I slipped the 300 into his hand. He then said

Have a good day Took the boot off the tire and looked for another sucker

Oh well better than paying the 500 and having to haul down to the Police station to get them to come and unlock the Boot So I look at it this way

I SAVED 200 baht since the actual fine was 500

Sad state of affairs here in Thailand with Corruption

How is this corruption when you had admittedly broken the law. I think a lot of TV posters think that paying a legitimate fine is an act of corruption. Go figure! Do you pay your tickets in your home country and cry "corruption"?

[sailblue]

The big money comes from the bars. They all pay every month to about 10 groups, in Pattaya Chonburi and BKK. They come here for a monthly payment. There man goes around and collects.

If a bar has a problem like a girl under 18, or whatever they can find, than it is numbers like 500,000 and more. A few years back, 30-40,000 would have fixed any problem, now its 10 times that

[thailiketoo]

The big money comes from the bars. They all pay every month to about 10 groups, in Pattaya Chonburi and BKK. They come here for a monthly payment. There man goes around and collects.

If a bar has a problem like a girl under 18, or whatever they can find, than it is numbers like 500,000 and more. A few years back, 30-40,000 would have fixed any problem, now its 10 times that

This is your personal experience?

[thailiketoo]

Two kids on a motorcycle drove into the front of my parked (parked legally) and ended up over the road - 10,000 or charged with driving recklessly and criminal harm (meaning possible deportation) - paid

Arrest warrant issued by court, police refused to arrest - arranged by off duty police for 7,000 baht. But taken to police at Bangsue who demanded 45,000 for complying with arrest warrant to take to court out of Bangkok or would release the person. Happened to know a bigger policeman but still cost me 13,000 as they had no budget to transport arrested prisoners.

Many times had to pay for papers needed at court from the admin office - ranges from 100 to 6000 baht depending what's needed and how urgently.

Immigration Bangkok demanded income verification although required capital in bank for 6 months - local immigration wrote a letter - no charge and I got the visa. Willingly gave 1,000 for their help but they really did not want to take it - I insisted because that was not a bribe and given after the event.

Many 100 and 200 baths to police for traffic infractions - usually I was wrong so just pay to avoid license pick up hassle

Accountant falsely made up sales invoices and was overstating VAT. VAT office accepted money due back but refused to pay it back or reduce it because 'foreigners lucky to do business here' - it never did get resolved

Girl threw bottle outside nightclub hit my hand broke my watch. She was arguing with someone close by. I was arrested and girl with the person she was arguing with accused me of hitting her - I was not even involved - police arrested me - had to pay 1,000 or be arrested for assault! I don't bother going out much anymore so can avoid that particular one.

Asked for 10,000 for no music license infraction at a restaurant I was momentarily involved with. Showed them license and asked for 1,000 because otherwise they would have problem with their superior - paid it as didn't need the attention and they did look very sad!

Dozens more but then I have been here a while. So it's just a cost of living - bit like the council tax!

What capital has to be in the bank for 6 months for immigration? It is 90 or 60 days.

[Benmart]

Don't worry, when people wake up they will post.

Remember, the vast majority of experts on TV are not even in Thailand, so the time differences means they will start their posting in a few hours time.

when the majority of people are in Thailand then I would like to think they are having too good a time to be on a forum conversing with others who are not even there.....

I live in Pattaya and have never bothered to consider if a poster lives here, ever lived here, ever visited Thailand or knows where it is on a map.

Some of the comments that seem to question those areas remind me of the condo controversy of "Are you a renter of a buyer". IMO, one is not any better or valid on its face alone.

Live and Let Live as it is a short ride before we get off.

[AsterixThai]

Land Office for the purchase of land 600,000 THB.

Employees:

"In my case this field has a value of 1,100,000THB so is the reference value to pay the fee to be 80,000 THB. But if you give me 15000 THB I accept your price and you will pay only 20,000."

[thailiketoo]

Don't worry, when people wake up they will post.

Remember, the vast majority of experts on TV are not even in Thailand, so the time differences means they will start their posting in a few hours time.

And many have never been to Thailand. But that don't stop em posting.

When you are actually in Thailand, I would be happy to hear your experiences.

Another brilliant flame. How do you get away with it. Flame after flame with no substantive comment or content. What on earth led you to believe I don't live in Thailand? Still miffed about not knowing the difference between high and low Thai?

[myluckythai]

is it even possible to live in Thailand and not have experience with corruption?

[attrayant]

When I was going through my first marriage extension a few years ago, I was offered the opportunity to get "fast track" approval for 10,000 baht (i.e. not have to go through the 30 day conditional period). She was as bold as brass about it, too: spoken in full voice within earshot of dozens of other folks who were waiting. I had no objection to waiting the 30 days so I declined.

When we got up to the window, the wife told the officer that somebody had approached us in the waiting area with an offer to circumvent the system. The officer shrugged and said "oh yeah, she works here but today is her day off". So apparently they come into the office on their off days in the hopes of making some extra money this way.

In three years that has been my only corruption related experience.

[David48]

is it even possible to live in Thailand and not have experience with corruption?

I spend 1/2 my time here over the best part of 5 years ... never have yet.

Sure, 100% it must happen, the weight of posters tales is testament to it.

But, as a personal experience, no ... not yet.

[Maggusoil]

I was pulled over for genuine speeding. Near Udon Thani. Nice stretch of road. ABout 129ks. There were four cops who herded me to the side of the road. I began looking for money, the moment I pulled up and had my wallet, open, on my lap, full of 1,000 baht notes, when certain cop put his head through the window.

He pulled his head out immediately, laughing and say "Oh no. .. too much. . .too much" Which was jsut as well as I had not planned to give him anything like 1,000 thb. He seemed very pleased with himself, in his spotless green uniform, polished boots, red piping and white hat, the sun glinting piercingly off the brim and perfect white gloves. The accepted "toll" was 100baht for each policeman. About $12. He was extremely polite, smiling and bowing and with a final downward gesture of his immaculate white gloves he proffered that I should "slow down, ( smiling ) slow down.

Now I don't know about you people. The politically correct will be chortling into their feathers about corruption. I say if traffic matters were held in this manner back home, I would not be so desperate to leave it. Incredibly aggressive, arrogant police, full of their own sense of self importance, and no sense of humour for miles, $1,300 of fines, numerous court appearances, massive wasting of time, for which I paid for every step, including the illegal hearing of a case in my absence, leading to the illegal loss of my license, while I was driving for a "living". A corrupt and dishonest judiciary in Australia are raking in massive millions of dollars every month from relatively minor offences, due to "regulations" which are not even ratified as actual laws, for which most people could not be bothered to stand up for because it is too much trouble.

The system here in Australia, is as corrupt as it gets. Its just polished and comes in flurries of legalese, which nobody can prove and nobody understands other than to know that these statute "regulations" that are imposed "as if" ( these are the worlds from the manual) they are law.

AS IF. Believe it. are law when they are not. Law.

In contravention for which, if you fight a bit, The State Revenue Department can come knocking with their burly little sherrifs and take your stuff. In fact anything that's worth selling. Car. Boat. Clothes. TV's. Fridges. Which according to your Constitutional Right guaranteed by Magna Carta is all illegal.

What would you like? A Brave New World or an old rustic One?

[Maggusoil]

Oh yes. I forgot to mention the house. Some of my friends have lost their businesses and their house over this.

How's that for corruption?

[thailiketoo]

Have not left Thailand in many years and have not had an experience with corruption. Far more problems with it when I lived in Chicago. Chicago City Council Chambers has long been the center of public corruption in Chicago. The first conviction of Chicago aldermen and Cook County Commissioners for accepting bribes to rig a crooked contract occurred in 1869. Between 1972 and 1999, 26 current or former Chicago aldermen were convicted for official corruption. Between 1973 and 2012, 31 aldermen were convicted of corruption. Approximately 100 aldermen served in that period, which is a conviction rate of about one-third. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_City_Council

[Raybo]

Stopped about 3 different times for some unknown traffic offenses and each time 100 Baht took care of it.

When we were getting my wifes visa, the folks at the immigration department made hint about Jack Daniels and

Salem cigarettes. We complied and got her paperwork done.

Just recently, my nephew was drivingus from Bangkok to Petchaboon and we were pulled over at a road block and

The police said we changed lanes to often! 100 baht later we were on our way.

Just another day in Thailand.

ChuLai 6768

[MJP]

Have not left Thailand in many years and have not had an experience with corruption. Far more problems with it when I lived in Chicago. Chicago City Council Chambers has long been the center of public corruption in Chicago. The first conviction of Chicago aldermen and Cook County Commissioners for accepting bribes to rig a crooked contract occurred in 1869. Between 1972 and 1999, 26 current or former Chicago aldermen were convicted for official corruption. Between 1973 and 2012, 31 aldermen were convicted of corruption. Approximately 100 aldermen served in that period, which is a conviction rate of about one-third. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_City_Council

Wasn't Chicago was run by La Cosa Nostra during that period?