What Are The Chances Of A Non Native

[Avrockx]

Hello & Good Morning Thailand,

My name is AV & i am from Pakistan.I hold a Bachelors Degree in Business Administration & I have a TOEIC score of 890.I wanted to know what are the chances of me getting a teaching job here in Thailand? & it would be a huge help if someone could recommend a good teaching agency as well because being relatively new here,its not easy

Edited December 3, 2013 by metisdead
Please do not post using all caps. Topic title edited to remove all caps.

[onlycw]

Welcome, AV!

With that high a score you should get work. At my school, a guy with a 640 score still commands 25,000 B and he is charcoal black.

Good luck - just try applying to jobs on Ajarn.com and Ajarnjobspace.com - you might get hired directly.

[sirchai]

Welcome, AV!

With that high a score you should get work. At my school, a guy with a 640 score still commands 25,000 B and he is charcoal black.

Good luck - just try applying to jobs on Ajarn.com and Ajarnjobspace.com - you might get hired directly.

Your post is so insane that you should be ashamed. You obviously don’t know much about teaching in Thailand in general. I have a similar score, which doesn't mean much to me, as there’s no speaking involved, when doing this test.

It just shows the ability in reading and understanding English.

Thought the times would be over that people can make racist speeches, without problems. Have you ever considered that the “charcoal” black guy might be a much better teacher than you?

Ever thought about that personality, character etc…hasn't got anything to do with the color of your skin?

Don’t give people advice if you don’t know much about the process of hiring foreigners in LOS. It’s certainly not true that the OP’s chances are so spectacular, just because of a TOEIC score of 890.

Dear OP. The chances to get a teaching position with a good salary are pretty slim, as most Thai superiors don’t like people from India and Pakistan. I had to sit in so many interviews and I can assure you that it won’t be easy to get a teaching position here. None of the Pakistanis or Indians did get the jobs at our school.

I don’t think that just applying for jobs at ajarncom etc. will be the best solution. Decide where you’d like to teach and show up in person. Go for some interviews and you’ll have much better chances than just waiting to get response to your application. Wish you good luck!

[pastafarian]

Sirchai, when making the 'charcoal black' comment he was just telling it like it is! Thailand is an institutionally racist country and people get judged/hired/discriminated against every day purely because of how light/dark their skin is. The majority of schools prefer caucasian teachers and many dark-skinned foreigners do find it very hard to find work here. I've known black native English speakers be refused even an interview while white non-native English speakers with very poor English and strong accents get hired. Take your head out of the sand!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Scott]

Unfortunately the color, tone and hue of your skin is important. This is true of Thai nationals as well. Who gets hired and who gets advancements often depends on how dark they are. One of our best assistants is rather dark and the Director still limits her public activities and says it is because she is 'too' dark.

If a black person is in the office and fills out an application, I don't even get a call to see them, unless the office girl gets scared of them.

Over the years we've managed to have 3 blacks on staff, but they were truly exceptional teachers and almost impossible to replace. One was eventually let go and a much more inferior teacher replaced her.

I have also seen a qualified black person with an education degree replaced by a non-degreed, non-native speaking person who could barely carry on a conversation in English.

Very sad. Very, very sad.

[aussiestyle1983]

I agree with pastafarian - onlycw was just telling it how it is. And discrimination is very 'in your face' in Thailand.

What Scott said above is very corect and indeed very, very sad: "One of our best assistants is rather dark and the Director still limits her public activities and says it is because she is 'too' dark."

This happened where I worked too (and still does from what I hear - to no surprise). The white / Western looking foreign teachers were given less teaching periods per week and often had their marking / paperwork activities given to others so that they could stand around the front gate before and after school to 'bring in business'. The Filipinos were given more office work and were basically kept inside. This is reality in Thailand. A lot of Thai people do judge people according to skin colour - the lighter the better. Money is what is on the school director's mind and the activities of individual teachers is planned around just that.

[aussiestyle1983]

Another example I remember is that grades / classrooms were re-located one year so that the white / Western looking teachers were based in classrooms on the ground level so that when there was a lot of parent activity around the building it would be the white looking farang that was seen! Meanwhile, the Filipinos taught in classrooms above ground level so that they could not be seen. Very, very sad. I believe that the school positioned teachers in parts of the building that would, like I mentioned above, 'bring in business'. Those were the words of the head of foreign teachers (very white Thai / Chinese lady).

[bundoi]

Hi Av, the chances of you getting a teaching job in Thailand are higher than the chances of a Thai getting a job in Pakistan, but still very very low.

As Pakistan is not recognised as a native English-speaking country you would not easily be considered as an NES teacher; nor would you be considered as an ASEAN citizen.

Some schools also apply teacher selection criteria such as experience of living in Thailand, knowledge of Thai culture and some Thai language skills, which may militate against you.

It's also quite common for schools to only accept applications from people currently in the country.

On the other hand I know that many Pakistanis have a perfect RP style British accent. If you have this type of accent, or any other strong NES accent and if you are in Bangkok, rather than the provinces, I would guess the chances of you getting a job are higher, but as a recent graduate (I'm assuming) in a non-related subject I wouldn't set your hopes too high.

[Scott]

The one point where a lot of people transcend the color barrier is if they are particularly talented in science or math, which is often a deficient area for farang teachers.

[lostinisaan]

Sirchai, when making the 'charcoal black' comment he was just telling it like it is! Thailand is an institutionally racist country and people get judged/hired/discriminated against every day purely because of how light/dark their skin is. The majority of schools prefer caucasian teachers and many dark-skinned foreigners do find it very hard to find work here. I've known black native English speakers be refused even an interview while white non-native English speakers with very poor English and strong accents get hired. Take your head out of the sand!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I prefer dark skinned women. That's why many of us are here, I'd assume. Isn't cockney and some Scottish slang etc..also considered a strong accent?

[sirchai]

Sirchai, when making the 'charcoal black' comment he was just telling it like it is! Thailand is an institutionally racist country and people get judged/hired/discriminated against every day purely because of how light/dark their skin is. The majority of schools prefer caucasian teachers and many dark-skinned foreigners do find it very hard to find work here. I've known black native English speakers be refused even an interview while white non-native English speakers with very poor English and strong accents get hired. Take your head out of the sand!

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Some people -obviously- didn't get my point. I do know how racist Thais are,as I'm working here for nine years. I always have to sit in interviews as the foreign head teacher to give them my five cents.

Even if it would be a perfect candidate from India or Pakistan, according his speech, experience etc...he wouldn't get the job. Even if I gave him/her the highest possible score.

My point being was that OP had a serious question, being relatively new to this forum.

Don't you think that there could be a possibility that the OP has got dark(er) skin as well?

But one poster, trying to give him advice's talking about a "charcoal black" guy, making too much money for the type of his skin. That's indeed insane.-

Edited December 5, 2013 by sirchai

[kirstymelb101]

Yup! Unfortunately Thailand is a ridiculously racist country in every sense of the word. The school director of my previous teaching job cut my contract short, and replaced me with a fresh Graduate from the US. They blatantly said "It's in the schools best interest that students learn English from someone who is white". I even had two of my co-teachers vouch for me on my behalf, but the director could not have cared less. So basically I lost my job during mid semester and was unemployed with barely any savings in the bank. Everyone has a breaking point in life, and this was my ABSOLUTE downward spiral. Every stepping stone in life is a new learning curve. You can either get back up, or sink to the bottom of the ocean. I almost gave up, but I strongly refused to let this school's incompetence break my spirit. Luckily for me I have many Thai friends/family who helped me overcome this disaster.

Now I'm back on my two feet happily living/teaching in my home town province where I was born with my beloved family.

This is just one of many sad stories

Edited December 5, 2013 by kirstymelb101

[sirchai]

Unfortunately the color, tone and hue of your skin is important. This is true of Thai nationals as well. Who gets hired and who gets advancements often depends on how dark they are. One of our best assistants is rather dark and the Director still limits her public activities and says it is because she is 'too' dark.

If a black person is in the office and fills out an application, I don't even get a call to see them, unless the office girl gets scared of them.

Over the years we've managed to have 3 blacks on staff, but they were truly exceptional teachers and almost impossible to replace. One was eventually let go and a much more inferior teacher replaced her.

I have also seen a qualified black person with an education degree replaced by a non-degreed, non-native speaking person who could barely carry on a conversation in English.

Very sad. Very, very sad.

A good one Scott. I personally believe,as it's business for all the (corrupt) school directors and others involved), who usually take "a fee" of between 10,000 and 60,000 depending on income of the parents and type of school for a little kid going to Anuban/Kindergarten.

It's very similar to any other business. Thai people believe they pay for a better "product", when some white guys work at schools, instead of Asians, or Africans.

A good looking and young Caucasian woman without a degree would always have better chances to get a teaching position, than an Afro American guy with degree and a lot of experience. That's sad. Truly sad. -

Edited December 5, 2013 by sirchai

[sirchai]

Yup! Unfortunately Thailand is a ridiculously racist country in every sense of the word. The school director of my previous teaching job cut my contract short, and replaced me with a fresh Graduate from the US. They blatantly said "It's in the schools best interest that students learn English from someone who is white". I even had two of my co-teachers vouch for me on my behalf, but the director could not have cared less. So basically I lost my job during mid semester and was unemployed with barely any savings in the bank. Everyone has a breaking point in life, and this was my ABSOLUTE downward spiral. Every stepping stone in life is a new learning curve. You can either get back up, or sink to the bottom of the ocean. I almost gave up, but I strongly refused to let this school's incompetence break my spirit. Luckily for me I have many Thai friends/family who helped me overcome this disaster.

Now I'm back on my two feet happily living/teaching in my home town province where I was born with my beloved family.

This is just one of many sad stories

Your story is indeed heartbreaking. Good to read that you're back on your feet! It would make perfect sense to have something like a "foreign teacher association", But that on the other hand wouldn't really work,as there's also so much hate between Brits, Yanks, Germans and god knows whom.

They give us too much of their beliefs, without knowing the difference between somebody who's doing a great job and those who pretend to do a good job.

Hope you'll never experience something similar again. If you're looking for a teaching position, please page me.There's a job available in Ubon Ratchathani area. ( About 60 km away) Cheers from lower north east.-

Edited December 5, 2013 by sirchai

[kirstymelb101]

Your story is indeed heartbreaking. Good to read that you're back on your feet! It would make perfect sense to have something like a "foreign teacher association", But that on the other hand wouldn't really work,as there's also so much hate between Brits, Yanks, Germans and god knows whom.

They give us too much of their beliefs, without knowing the difference between somebody who's doing a great job and those who pretend to do a good job.

Hope you'll never experience something similar again. If you're looking for a teaching position, please page me.There's a job available in Ubon Ratchathani area. ( About 60 km away) Cheers from lower north east.-

I volunteered at Ubon Ratchathani University one time in the library. Huge campus and great facilities. From what I'm told they don't offer international programs, which I'm quite surprised about. The University offered me part time work on the w/e but I kindly refused their proposal since I had no intentions to stay.

if I do plan to stay and teach in LOS my next destination will most likely be Khon Kan. But thanks kindly for the offer ^^,

[Hecate]

Just curious, what's it like for older people to teach in Thailand? I am a native speaker from Canada with a good degree, two TEFL certificates and over a decade of teaching experience. I'm female, white, and 54. I am on a retirement visa and don't need the money, but I'm getting a bit bored. I'd prefer to work part-time, and I won't do it without a work permit. What are my chances? Should I just move to any other country in the world where I could tutor without being arrested?

[mike123ca]

@Hecate,

I'm also Canadian and 51 years old. It might be a little bit difficult getting into the game because of your age, but I think being female will also be to your advantage. Now is a good time to start getting to know the schools in your area. Go and visit them and let them know you are available. I know at my high school there is an new opening as of now. I would have included a location in your post. Good luck

[mogo51]

This site has no rating

My partner is Filipino, degrees in Maths/English, 20 plus years teaching experience, score of over 800 for English comprehension, still gets treated like she is a 3rd rater. She teaches in Pattaya, having also taught (5 years) throughout Thailand. Her job choices are very narrow due to the very things discussed on this forum and the attitude of the Thais towards Filipinos. We hold perfectly normal conversations and her comprehension is excellent.

Racism is alive and well in Thailand. As enunciated also here, a shame directors are not the subject of investigation - they are all driving flash cars and probably live in flash houses - cant help good luck!!!!

But try getting teaching materials necessary for the students etc. When will Thailand wake up and see how far they are behind in English speaking and comprehension?

[mogo51]

I did not type the first sentence on this previous posting - strange.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[NoshowJones]

Welcome, AV!

With that high a score you should get work. At my school, a guy with a 640 score still commands 25,000 B and he is charcoal black.

Good luck - just try applying to jobs on Ajarn.com and Ajarnjobspace.com - you might get hired directly.

I believe it will be easy for the OP to get a job in a language school with these qualifications, but unfortunately it will be hard for him to get a job in a government school as a teachers appearance is more important than his ability to teach.

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted.

[pacovl46]

If you get a job, you probably will earn around 15000 Baht because that's what teachers from the Philippines usually get. What everyone else said about Thais being discriminating against dark skinned fellows is definitely true. There's exceptions, though, but they're few in between and finding them comes down to pure luck.

[oxo1947]

charcoal black

That's classic onlycw------ -----Gave me something to smile about on Mandela Day...........

Edited December 10, 2013 by oxo1947

[kirstymelb101]

Just curious, what's it like for older people to teach in Thailand? I am a native speaker from Canada with a good degree, two TEFL certificates and over a decade of teaching experience. I'm female, white, and 54. I am on a retirement visa and don't need the money, but I'm getting a bit bored. I'd prefer to work part-time, and I won't do it without a work permit. What are my chances? Should I just move to any other country in the world where I could tutor without being arrested?

I highly doubt you'll get arrested or even deported for working part time teaching children English!! Since you have prior teaching experience. A degree and TEFL certified - That's more than enough experience to get you through the door.

[remobb]

Hi AV,

It's not impossible but be prepared for many let downs. try government schools first, your chances may be better. People mention your race but also your degree is not in education, this would also be a hindrance. I speak from experience!

[kirstymelb101]

charcoal black

That's classic onlycw------ -----Gave me something to smile about on Mandela Day...........

My friend uploaded a picture of Morgan Freeman and wrote, Rest in piece - Mandela 5555++

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

If you wish to work, which you can't on a retirement visa, you can switch to a non-immigrant B when you find a job.

[sangfroid]

Much of the apparent racism in the schools is caused by commercial necessity. Parents forking out good money want to see WHITE faces in the schools regardless of whether the farang can teach worth a damn or not. Schools are therefore under pressure to have a complement of token white farang teachers on the staff.

[Scott]

A post with a quote only has been removed.