Suthep pessimistic on mainstream political solutions

[Crushdepth]

No one seems to accept a balance of power between conservatives and liberals anywhere. US gridlock, British incontinence in regards to social policy, Dutch struggles with Rotterdam, these are all just symptoms. One side says PROGRESS NOW, the other says PROGRESS NEVER. No one wants to com,promise and because of that nothing changes.

This is deeply disturbing and deeply sad. This is how civil wars start...

This is not a football match. This is people's lives, people's children. Too many foriegners are flippant about all this. Yes, there are comic aspects, yes this is Asia, where corruption is an art form...but does that make human beings involved in this inconsequential and trivial, so that posters say "my team should win"?

What arrogant stupidity. NO, this is not as rugby match. And we are guests, not vital VIP's who contribute greatly to the land in which we are living.

This is not a small game. This is a young democracy struggling to find balance. I propose that we encourage stability, instead of jumping at the chance to criticise one side or the other with lop-sided arguments that stir the pot.

Are our own home nations so perfect that we can pretend to know, much less occupy, the high moral ground?

NO. We are guests. Please remember that.

Thais, including my Thai wife and coming child, deserve that much respect and love to hope for their future instead of picking sides like punters at a snooker tournament.

There is dynamite all over the Bangkok streets today. How DARE you throw matches around just because you can turn tail and run home when there is an explosion.

Sometimes...I am ashamed to be a farang here.

Look this 'guest' stuff is a pathetic cop out. If you are concerned about the well being of your Thai family (think you're the only one?) then you should take an interest in what is going on and the right and wrong of it.

When they start gunning people down in the streets again will you accept that too?

[Docno]

Confusing.... Fight against Thaksins efforts to turn Thailand into a one man show in favour of Suthep's view of Guided democracy.

Is there such a thing as a benevelent dictatorship?

Singapore

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sure, and their ruling party does worse and worse on each passing election. Lived there for 14 years. I can tell you that Singaporeans think the ruling Lee clan are as corrupt self-serving as Thaksin and the Dems (you take your pick).

Also, it's much easier to rule and maintain order in a small island nation of 4 million people than a large, diverse nation of 70 million.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Docno

[EricBerg]

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

If you are long enough in Thailand it seems meaningful....whereever you go is Shinawatra...supply of the airports, computer for the government offices, oil purchases, Thai airways managment, etc etc etc....so many people just want that corrupt family rooted out and don't want to hear that name anymore.

Owner of Thai Airways hates the missunderstood fugitive. He refused the guy landing rights forhis prvate plane on Samui when he was PM...

[AbuBacon]

Mainstream = elections . not many of those won since the last time suthep raised a boner

Sent from my Lenovo A516 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[airconsult]

 

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

 

If you are long enough in Thailand it seems meaningful....whereever you go is Shinawatra...supply of the airports, computer for the government offices, oil purchases, Thai airways managment, etc etc etc....so many people just want that corrupt family rooted out and don't want to hear that name anymore.

 

 

Owner of Thai Airways hates the missunderstood fugitive. He refused the guy landing rights forhis prvate plane on Samui when he was PM...

OT - I find that unlikely as the airport on samui is owned and operated by bangkok airways. Aot has been directed to acquire it but are still negotiating price.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[EricBerg]

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

If you are long enough in Thailand it seems meaningful....whereever you go is Shinawatra...supply of the airports, computer for the government offices, oil purchases, Thai airways managment, etc etc etc....so many people just want that corrupt family rooted out and don't want to hear that name anymore.

Owner of Thai Airways hates the missunderstood fugitive. He refused the guy landing rights forhis prvate plane on Samui when he was PM...

OT - I find that unlikely as the airport on samui is owned and operated by bangkok airways. Aot has been directed to acquire it but are still negotiating price.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Google some. You'll find who built the airport on Samui and with it obtained the sole rights for a limited number of years...

[Docno]

why is this going on ? are you serious

this is going on because you have a criminal running this country who is on the run and robbed billions of baht from the Thai people and is using a small part of that money to buy a lie from those that unfortunately don't know any better - it is exploitation of the poor in this country buying votes for a few hundred baht - I wish someone would go to the middle east and snuff this debacle out

there is no democracy in Thailand for those that don't understand that then go and get educated

who let the dogs out

Again, the 'old saw' that Thais only voted for the Shinawatras because they were paid to or they are ignorant/brainwashed. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation, and views like this, broadly held by the opposition, only serve to lengthen and deepen the conflict. I know many people in Isaan, and their support of the PTP has nothing to do with 'being paid to vote'. Whatever his true motives, Thaksin was the first national politician to speak for the needs and aspirations of the poor and previously disenfranchised in this country. And when in office, he did tangible things that made their lives easier. That is why he has their support. The rural poor have come to realise that they are not powerless. And that is why you see members of the amnat, along with the apparent majority of posters here, calling for the introduction--or re-introduction--of non-democratic mechanisms/forms of governance (unelected chambers, 'benign dictatorships', technocrat oligarchies, military rule, etc.).

[airconsult]

Owner of Thai Airways hates the missunderstood fugitive. He refused the guy landing rights forhis prvate plane on Samui when he was PM...

OT - I find that unlikely as the airport on samui is owned and operated by bangkok airways. Aot has been directed to acquire it but are still negotiating price.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Google some. You'll find who built the airport on Samui and with it obtained the sole rights for a limited number of years...

Don't have to google it - I know this from Aot. But here's a link for you to make it easy.

http://www.samuiairportonline.com/

Notice the line on the first page - "Samui Airport is privately owned and operated by Bangkok Airways. Most flights from the island are operated by Bangkok Airways. Thai Airways international began flights to Samui in February 2008."

Bangkok Airways - not Thai Airways. The reason Aot has been instructed to acquire is that Bangkok Airways charges a high per passenger fee for any other airline to use it.

Cheers

[Sing_Sling]

why is this going on ? are you serious

this is going on because you have a criminal running this country who is on the run and robbed billions of baht from the Thai people and is using a small part of that money to buy a lie from those that unfortunately don't know any better - it is exploitation of the poor in this country buying votes for a few hundred baht - I wish someone would go to the middle east and snuff this debacle out

there is no democracy in Thailand for those that don't understand that then go and get educated

who let the dogs out

I always find it humorous when people like you tell others to 'get educated' because they have a different standpoint . . . and then advocate murder.

The usual apologists for criminal behaviour are out, irrespective of which 'side' they support . . . and we call Thais simpletons

[bobmac10]

The majority of the people of Thailand don't like the Democrats, that's why they keep voting for PTP.

Who the #@*% do you expats think you are?

absolutely no ide as to the real picture or what the majority want.

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

He means that just dissolving the house and calling another election would do nothing as the Shinawatrs are too entwined and would simply reform. He wants a solution where they can be removed from politics (including the cronies) and then a return to "true" democracy.

He may be right on the first count - most think that some semblance of PTP would just get straight back in - and with Thaksin's pull on the party, would still be in control. On the other hand, he also knows that even if PTP fractured (as I personally think it would), that Dems or any party he starts, are unlikely to get into power either.

So, he is between a rock and a hard place - only answer he has is an appointed administration (aka non-elected) government (perhaps cross-party - perhaps non-partisan - perhaps all his own people) to preside over the clean up of politics, government and civil service to remove the cronies/corruption and make a fairer playing field, before stepping down for free elections.

At least that's the gist of it as far as I can understand.

[Mackie]

The majority of the people of Thailand don't like the Democrats, that's why they keep voting for PTP.

Who the #@*% do you expats think you are?

absolutely no ide as to the real picture or what the majority want.

Apply the rule of the law and enforce it and you will see the results over 6 months. More than half of so called red mob movement would end up in prison. It's not politics, it's plain and sheer thuggery. Blatant vote buying, dead people voting, multiple voting, brutal and physical intimidation of political opponents and their families in the North-East Thailand etc...etc...Democrats may not be liked but those red mob thugs, so called politicians are running the whole country into the ground. You cannot bloody live on government handouts forever without paying it back.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Mackie

[bobmac10]

The majority of the people of Thailand don't like the Democrats, that's why they keep voting for PTP.

Who the #@*% do you expats think you are?

absolutely no ide as to the real picture or what the majority want.

Apply the rule of the law and enforce it and you will see the results over 6 months. More than half of so called red mob movement would end up in prison. It's not politics, it's plain and sheet thuggery. Blatant vote buying, dead people voting, multiple voting, brutal and physical intimidation of political opponents and their families in the North-East Thailand etc...etc...Democrats may not be liked but those red mob thugs, so called politicians are running the whole country into the ground. You cannot bloody live on government handouts forever without paying it back.

And I suppose you believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden too?

try moving to the North of Thailand and live with the people in the farming towns, they will all tell you they are sick of the Democrats 50 years did nothing for them, just raped the environment and enriched themselves.Thaksin did something for them 30 baht hospital charge, loans to farmers, educational loans for poor rural kids, even a payment for old retired people. The Democrats were only interested in the Bangkok power plays and carving up the spoils they could loot from the country.

Don't tell me about thuggery, the Red Shirts had every right to come to Bangkok, I would have joined them to throw out Abhsit, the unelected puppet

They want a government they voted for not one imposed on them by the elite. I think it's a joke how many of you Maggie Thatcher refugees cling on to the old power structure, conservative to your socks and undies.

Your'e living in the 70's.

[Sing_Sling]

The majority of the people of Thailand don't like the Democrats, that's why they keep voting for PTP.

Who the #@*% do you expats think you are?

absolutely no ide as to the real picture or what the majority want.

Apply the rule of the law and enforce it and you will see the results over 6 months. More than half of so called red mob movement would end up in prison. It's not politics, it's plain and sheer thuggery. Blatant vote buying, dead people voting, multiple voting, brutal and physical intimidation of political opponents and their families in the North-East Thailand etc...etc...Democrats may not be liked but those red mob thugs, so called politicians are running the whole country into the ground. You cannot bloody live on government handouts forever without paying it back.

As I see it you wish to apply the rule of law selectively according to your one-eyed view of things.

I have no love for either camp, for one I am a foreigner and wouldn't be so arrogant as to pretend to understand the machinations behind Thailand, Thai politics, Thai society nor any combination of one or more of these things . . .

. . . for the other I find it absurd when foreigners deem one criminal to be better than another, or one mob better than another according to the colours they wear.

Occupying airports, government offices, cities in the name of democracy, or in this latest case - anti-democracy etc . . . how is any of that justifiable . . .

It isn't.

[wolf5370]

The majority of the people of Thailand don't like the Democrats, that's why they keep voting for PTP.

Who the #@*% do you expats think you are?

absolutely no ide as to the real picture or what the majority want.

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

He means that just dissolving the house and calling another election would do nothing as the Shinawatrs are too entwined and would simply reform. He wants a solution where they can be removed from politics (including the cronies) and then a return to "true" democracy.

He may be right on the first count - most think that some semblance of PTP would just get straight back in - and with Thaksin's pull on the party, would still be in control. On the other hand, he also knows that even if PTP fractured (as I personally think it would), that Dems or any party he starts, are unlikely to get into power either.

So, he is between a rock and a hard place - only answer he has is an appointed administration (aka non-elected) government (perhaps cross-party - perhaps non-partisan - perhaps all his own people) to preside over the clean up of politics, government and civil service to remove the cronies/corruption and make a fairer playing field, before stepping down for free elections.

At least that's the gist of it as far as I can understand.

Are you really that dumb? My post was a direct response to a direct question of what Suthep is after - not my feelings, not all Thai people feelings, but what I believe his feelings are. You will of course know he is not a 'farang' - if context is too hard for you, maybe you should avoid forums altogether.

BTW how many times did the people vote PTP?