Jatuporn warns demonstrating Ramkhamhaeng students against coming to Rajamangala

[F430murci]

Do you all realize how ignorant it sounds to try and blame other side for all violent acts occurring while sitting behind your computer in your underwear without a clue as to what is really going on.

Dang sad situation. Poor people getting caught in cross hairs of others bs battles spawned by egos, resentment and greed.

[Prbkk]

Your post does not reflect what is in the linked article in any way at all. You have just extracted some bits and pieces ...the article itself gives an entirely different perspective

Given that students are the only reported gunshot casualties so far, the picture of the gunman above is more likely to be of a government supporter.

The Nation has some interesting comments from the Rector of the University, amongst others:

"The rector said a number of men on motorcycles from the stadium had provoked the protesting students earlier.

There was a fistfight and one student a got minor injury, according to a reporter with the pro-Democrats' Blue Sky TV network at the scene.

Hundreds of protesters Saturday joined in an anti-red shirts rally in front of the university, after a female student was attacked by the red shirts because she wore a whistle necklace".

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Four-people-shot-at-Ramkhamhaeng-University-after--30221001.html

[whybother]

There comes a point when all educated, rational people need to stop pushing their own agendas. Whatever your colour scenes like this should shock and terrify everyone in Thailand. Please step back from the brink and don't let the extremists win.

The problem is, the "rational" people believe that if they step back then the "extremists" WILL win.

[realfunster]

Several news sources now confirming 1 shot dead this evening.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jdinasia]

This is another picture of a gentle "student" (most probably from the Bangkok middle class) expressing his concern regarding the Yingluck administration, and trying to make these evil and dirty red shirts understand what he means.

(if I believe what I read, the picture is from Ch7)

This time, no need for the army to come to help, Suthep has everything he needs

You read wrong gerry.

The pic is from Facebook.

The Number 7 goes along with "seven excellent (compelling) reasons to reject/expel Thaksinocracy

the blouse/shirt is that of a military scout, right or not (certainly)"

Note that is a reference to the Taharn Prahn -- the common belief is that the "men in black" were ex Thai Rangers/scouts

[ratcatcher]

There comes a point when all educated, rational people need to stop pushing their own agendas. Whatever your colour scenes like this should shock and terrify everyone in Thailand. Please step back from the brink and don't let the extremists win.

As the Muse of Tragedy, you are correct, as that is what this is shaping up to be..

Extremists, who Arisman or Suthep?

[wealth]

... and a loud explosion. From a kilometer and a half away it has to be big to be heard.

probably one of these huge cracker balls with about 7 inches in diameter. They make a loud bang, very loud and saw them first years ago in the North.

[realfunster]

Several news sources now confirming 1 shot dead this evening.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Melpomene]

There comes a point when all educated, rational people need to stop pushing their own agendas. Whatever your colour scenes like this should shock and terrify everyone in Thailand. Please step back from the brink and don't let the extremists win.

The problem is, the "rational" people believe that if they step back then the "extremists" WILL win.

That makes them extremists....

[Emptyset]

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story Gerry.

Andrew MacG Marshall ‏@zenjournalist1m

Police saying Ramkhamhaeng students shot by other students. One dead, two seriously wounded.

By the way, the students are not associated with Suthep's protests.

Oooooh, what I read here

RT@RichardBarrow: 10pm RT @aleursic: Students urging everybody to take cover under expressway, as 2-3 grenades were launched by Red shirts a few minutes ago

The unarmed peaceful red shirts are at it again . Well we all know that they are NOT middle class, isn't it

AMM has tweeted a few relatively wise things:

Andrew MacG Marshall ‏@zenjournalist 16m

Sad, shocking scenes. Don't let the extremists win. This is pure provocation.

Andrew MacG Marshall ‏@zenjournalist 36m

This is deliberate provocation designed to incite civil conflict.

Andrew MacG Marshall ‏@zenjournalist 33m

Do not be trapped in a Red vs Yellow mindset. Tonight the battle is between those who want deaths & conflict, and those who want peace.

Apparently there were no grenades after all:

Alessandro Ursic ‏@aleursic 59m

Explosions happened, i doubt they were grenades though. No injuries reported

Alessandro Ursic ‏@aleursic 36m

It's NOT Red Shirts leaving the stadium to fight, but "Reds" from the neighbourhood pitching in. Rocks are thrown on them from some houses

Expand

Don ‏@smartbrain 12m

ASTV Jatuporn - 20 to 30 shots fired. Seen 6 injured, sent to Bhatpanya. Attapon Hombuppa (19) leg, Somboon Rattana (Khmer) shot in back.

Situation is very murky as usual. Questions will be asked of the police. AGAIN.

[Melpomene]

There comes a point when all educated, rational people need to stop pushing their own agendas. Whatever your colour scenes like this should shock and terrify everyone in Thailand. Please step back from the brink and don't let the extremists win.

As the Muse of Tragedy, you are correct, as that is what this is shaping up to be..

Extremists, who Arisman or Suthep?

Both of them.

[jdinasia]

Reports of more grenades (a total of at least 4 so far) from RU area. -- Via FB (people I actually know)

[Emptyset]

This is another picture of a gentle "student" (most probably from the Bangkok middle class) expressing his concern regarding the Yingluck administration, and trying to make these evil and dirty red shirts understand what he means.

(if I believe what I read, the picture is from Ch7)

This time, no need for the army to come to help, Suthep has everything he needs

You read wrong gerry.

The pic is from Facebook.

The Number 7 goes along with "seven excellent (compelling) reasons to reject/expel Thaksinocracy

the blouse/shirt is that of a military scout, right or not (certainly)"

Note that is a reference to the Taharn Prahn -- the common belief is that the "men in black" were ex Thai Rangers/scouts

The Taharn Prahn were actually just Seh Daeng's ronin, actual men in black were more likely ex special forces, or navy SEALS. Seh Daeng's guys fired off grenades, but most of fighting by MiB with war weapons, i.e. April 10th, were the unit of MiB, believed to be based in Lumpini and under the control of a secret 'war room' operated by generals close to Thaksin. I'd suppose that the shooter earlier was a provocateur, not someone from either ordinary anti-govt or red side. Although I wouldn't guess who sent him at this stage. That said, ordinary protesters have used guns in protests before so it's possible to overthink this, maybe it was just chaos and it was inevitable that a firearm would be pulled at some point.

[garyk]

Facebook is showing a shirt with a name on it. Believed to be the shooters clothes?

Not sure if true or not.

[wealth]

if anyone is without TV you can use this link and call any live Thai channel. Works best for me ... http://www.iyatv.com/

[ballpoint]

Your post does not reflect what is in the linked article in any way at all. You have just extracted some bits and pieces ...the article itself gives an entirely different perspective

Given that students are the only reported gunshot casualties so far, the picture of the gunman above is more likely to be of a government supporter.

The Nation has some interesting comments from the Rector of the University, amongst others:

"The rector said a number of men on motorcycles from the stadium had provoked the protesting students earlier.

There was a fistfight and one student a got minor injury, according to a reporter with the pro-Democrats' Blue Sky TV network at the scene.

Hundreds of protesters Saturday joined in an anti-red shirts rally in front of the university, after a female student was attacked by the red shirts because she wore a whistle necklace".

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Four-people-shot-at-Ramkhamhaeng-University-after--30221001.html

No, it's only a direct quote of about a quarter of the short article, and all taken from a single chunk of it, not "some bits and pieces". I'm sure that whoever wrote it didn't mean it to reflect on the rest of the article, and just put it in to add a bit of confusion.

[MaiChai]

Taksin is playing it badly allowing the red shirts to mobilize and bring more of them into Bangkok. He should have left Suthep continue with his non aggression tactics, and with some luck Yingluck could sit it out until the Kings birthday. Bringing in all these red shirts in will lead to confrontations and force the army to get involved and protect the non violent anti government protestors. This will be much uglier and Yingluck will have to resign or call new elections.

[gerry1011]

From what I read, the government will ask the army to help.
The red shirts are told not to think that there is another coup if they see the army in the city tomorrow. It is the government that asked to support the police.

So, do not rejoyce too much here too, it's not a coup

[wonder6281]

Where is Yingluck????

[MaiChai]

Thats my prediction. No way will the army allow largely unarmed middle class/stufents to be over run by largely violent and armed reds (who appear to have the backing of the police).

[SABloke]

Not gona read everything since I just came back from dinner , but with regards to the photo that seems to be a "hot topic" at the moment: I saw the same photo when it "came out" a coupla hours ago and my firt thought was "No factual information provided". The photo could be of a man standing in Instanbul in 2011 for all we know. Let'snot forget the Fox News "faux pas" (they aren't politically unbiased) with the Russian protest footage. Don't believe everything you read folks...even from "witnesses at the scene" etc. Unless is corroborated, any information we're receiving at the monent has to be dealt with with a degree of sceptism.

On another note - if you want to communicate directly there's a private message option on TV. Please don't waste pages of forum sapce responding to your fellow trolls in a dialogue-like manner. It's unbecoming..

[seajae]

isnt it strange that the anti govt protesters have been here all week with no violence(apart from blowing whistles) and jutaporn calls for red violence and all of a sudden we have students shot, doesnt matter what the red scum keep writng in here everyone else knows the truth. Between the police and the reds the ptp are getting what they wanted, this is once again turning into a huge thaksin balls up to further his motives. Jutaporn is doing his masters bidding, why havent the police arrested him for breaching his bail conditions, why havent the police stepped in to stop the shooting, why havent the army stepped in to help and why has the PM run away and not made any attempt to call for calm ,is she visiting her brother for the weekend while he organized it all. They are all pathetic, this has gone too far and the police/reds are at fault and they have done it all with the pm's blessing

[pmugghc]

Why is the government sending in just 3,000 soldiers? How can they handle several hundred thousand demonstrators?

Another question: what goes through Thaksin's mind now after all anti-government protests? Imagine the turnout if he was about to re-enter Thailand! He has no chance at all to come back alive.

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[Emptyset]

Thats my prediction. No way will the army allow largely unarmed middle class/stufents to be over run by largely violent and armed reds (who appear to have the backing of the police).

Deep Blue Sea ‏@WassanaNanuam 27m

@SteveInCM @meanderings101 @w7voa @saksith soldier duty now is only protect the buildings (ha ha) not protect students.It's a police's duty.

The police are supposedly moving in at last. RU is more of a working class university btw. I'm not sure how many of Suthep's group were involved, but if you look at those involved on the student side, it doesn't really fit the image that you suggest. Of course, reds ended up with more people that you'd back in a fight. But that was inevitable. Students started the violence according to every report I've seen from the scene.

You seem to be just making assumptions according to narrative you want to believe, as most people on both sides will. Police are saying already they've caught the shooter and, of course, he's turned out to be one of Suthep's mob. Do I believe that? Absolutely not. And I'd also take anything from Blue Sky or social media with the equivalent amount of salt if I was actually interested in the truth rather than further vilifying either side.

[jdinasia]

At what point to the military step and and say enough is enough?

Sadly, not this soon. This goes on until they get an indication that they MUST act. If they make a move before the police have had a chance to really do their job any action they do will not be accepted.

Where I am from they would not call out the militia (National Guard) until it was requested by the governor. In Thailand the request must come from higher up. At which case, if the violence is political, they will weigh what is best for the stability of the nation.

It is my understanding that the military's (and civil servants') oath of allegiance is first to the monarchy (100% sure) and then to the nation (90% sure that officers understand that to be to the Thai people and not the government). AFAIK there is no oath to the constitution, which considering how many there have been, makes sense imho.

For the military to act before being asked by the government = coup. For the military to fail to act in the way that the government asks = coup even if they do not take power. (This is a semantic point but valid. since it will assuredly result in the fall of the government So you can understand the reluctance of the government to ask the military to get involved in politics!

I know things look awful out on the streets around RU, but when looked at in a global perspective it could be compared to a really bad night in Chelsea other than the reported grenade attacks.

in summary- the police must be given a chance to act and then the military will do what they see as best for king and country.

(mods, if you feel as if this politicizes the monarchy in any way please delete it! --- the monarchy is only mentioned in reference to the military oath)

[DGIE]

Jatuporn showed who he is in his word.

[jdinasia]

This is another picture of a gentle "student" (most probably from the Bangkok middle class) expressing his concern regarding the Yingluck administration, and trying to make these evil and dirty red shirts understand what he means.

(if I believe what I read, the picture is from Ch7)

This time, no need for the army to come to help, Suthep has everything he needs

You read wrong gerry.

The pic is from Facebook.

The Number 7 goes along with "seven excellent (compelling) reasons to reject/expel Thaksinocracy

the blouse/shirt is that of a military scout, right or not (certainly)"

Note that is a reference to the Taharn Prahn -- the common belief is that the "men in black" were ex Thai Rangers/scouts

The Taharn Prahn were actually just Seh Daeng's ronin, actual men in black were more likely ex special forces, or navy SEALS. Seh Daeng's guys fired off grenades, but most of fighting by MiB with war weapons, i.e. April 10th, were the unit of MiB, believed to be based in Lumpini and under the control of a secret 'war room' operated by generals close to Thaksin. I'd suppose that the shooter earlier was a provocateur, not someone from either ordinary anti-govt or red side. Although I wouldn't guess who sent him at this stage. That said, ordinary protesters have used guns in protests before so it's possible to overthink this, maybe it was just chaos and it was inevitable that a firearm would be pulled at some point.

I am not sure that we can say "were actually just" followed by "more likely"...

The point I was making was from the Thai text that came with the FB photo and the common belief amongst the Thais I know, The literal translation was "scout" not Ranger.

BTW I would love to have a source for your beliefs.. I may have missed a book. You know I took awhile off from posting (couple of deaths in my family --- and work stuff -- preemptively no need for condolences)

[Stradavarius37]

"They have their right to rally. But if they come here, the ones to get hurt will not be the ones inside the Rajamangala but the students themselves," Jatuporn said.

 

Exactly the reason the current government need to be ousted.

I think Jatuporn may for once actually have a valid point here. It's obvious if they try to block the reds they're going to get hurt. Jatuporn doesn't want that, so he's right in making it crystal clear to students, surely? What if reds went to try to block people going to peaceful Democrat rally? Would Suthep have a fair point if he warned them that they risk reprisal? I think so.

I've got no problem criticizing Jatuporn. I think he's a moron who talks nonsense 90% of the time. But this seems a fair warning to students not to needlessly provoke reds.

 

99 percent

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[Melpomene]

Thats my prediction. No way will the army allow largely unarmed middle class/stufents to be over run by largely violent and armed reds (who appear to have the backing of the police).

Deep Blue Sea ‏@WassanaNanuam 27m

@SteveInCM @meanderings101 @w7voa @saksith soldier duty now is only protect the buildings (ha ha) not protect students.It's a police's duty.

The police are supposedly moving in at last. RU is more of a working class university btw. I'm not sure how many of Suthep's group were involved, but if you look at those involved on the student side, it doesn't really fit the image that you suggest. Of course, reds ended up with more people that you'd back in a fight. But that was inevitable. Students started the violence according to every report I've seen from the scene.

You seem to be just making assumptions according to narrative you want to believe, as most people on both sides will. Police are saying already they've caught the shooter and, of course, he's turned out to be one of Suthep's mob. Do I believe that? Absolutely not. And I'd also take anything from Blue Sky or social media with the equivalent amount of salt if I was actually interested in the truth rather than further vilifying either side.

Absolutely - the idea that this is peaceful middle class housewives v. an armed red mob is ridiculous.

Both sides need to think about where this is heading. This absolutely NOT accidental, and the violence is pure provocation. I'm not so sure whose agenda stands to gain the most if the army have to take control of the situation, but it will certainly not be in the interests of Thailand.

[Dogmatix]

I am not condoning either of the 2 following "events", but again I am a bit confused.

German photo- journalist beaten by anti- government demonstrators: "He is biased and a red-supporter! He should stay away from a anti-government rally! He was clearly asking for it!"

Jatuporn warns students, not to get too close to the Stadium:"How dare he? These students are just exercising their right to demonstrate..."

Now -again- Jatuporn is a dangerous man, and he should be in jail, for all I care...but...bit of double standard, don't you think?

And students then do exactly what Jatuporn thought they might do. Actually worse, not simply protesting but actually attacking red shirts, including the elderly. And after this Jatuporn is STILL in the wrong, no doubt...

Yes. He should run off to Dubai or Phnom Penh while he still can and take you with him.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Dogmatix