1 dead, four people shot at Ramkhamhaeng University after clashes

[Prbkk]

I am perplexed by how some observers seem to equate this with the end of Marcos. No similarity at all ( well, except colour). However unpopular the govt ( and I , for one, agree that the rice pledging is sheer lunacy from an economic perspective), they remain legitimately elected . Thugs to the left, thugs to the right...ordinary Thai people ( the 90% not involved) don't want this violence and thuggery

Edited December 1, 2013 by Prbkk

[WinnieTheKhwai]

They are fighting for the end of government corruption and the Thaksin influence in Thai politics. Corruption and influence that put this rabble of a government in power in the first place. They would be welcomed to finish their term had they not been so damned aligned and loyal to Thaksin.

That's mighty decent from the minority opposition to consider allowing the majority to finish the elected term. If only they did exactly what the opposition wanted.

They can't seem to get it into their heads that Thaksin remains a highly respected person within the majority party. The likes of The Nation run countless stories how he's the bogeyman and the root of all evil, tirelessly prefixing him with the title 'fugituve' ad vomitum. That doesnt mean that the majority of the country sees it that way. And neither does the international press. They see Thaksin's conviction (in absentia) for something so incredibly minor that it's clear to see it was a politically motivated show trial, shortly after a military coup. What Thaksin was convicted for is the same sort of business dealing that Suthep did all day long during his entire career.

Edited December 1, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[siampolee]

According to the just received S.M.S. (Nation Breaking News) it seems as if there are in fact some 5 dead bodies in R.U. Now one must ask who were they Red Shirts or Students.?

If they are students is Jutuporn going to be charged with causing their deaths due to his incitement of violence against the R.U students ?

If as such they prove to be pro government Red Shirt dead how did they get into the university compound were they dragged in and killed? Somehow I doubt that and if they were Red Shirts why and what were their reasons or aims in being inside the R.U.campus ?

Old Russian proverb springs to mind.

Fate makes demands of flesh and blood.

And what does it most often demand?

Flesh and blood.

Edited December 1, 2013 by siampolee

[Spare]

According to the just received S.M.S. (Nation Braking News) it seems as if there are in fact some 5 dead bodies in R.U. Now one must ask who were they Red Shirts or Students.?

If they are students is Jutuporn going to be charged with causing their deaths due to his incitement of violence against the R.U students ?

If as such they prove to be pro government Red Shirt dead how did they get into the university compound were they dragged in and killed? Somehow I doubt that and if they were Red Shirts why and what were their reasons or aims in being inside the R.U.campus ?

Old Russian proveb springs to mind.

Fate makes demands of flesh and blood.

And what does it most often demand?

Flesh and blood.

Blue sky channel say something like, all the death are student, innocent on their way to get education. Sorry my Thai is not perfect.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Spare

[Tchooptip]

I am just glad I don't live in bangkok, can you imagine having to get around that crazy place? The traffic must be a nightmare.

OP : 1 dead, four people shot at Ramkhamhaeng University after clashes

Answer : I am just glad I don't live in bangkok, can you imagine having to get around that crazy place? The traffic must be a nightmare.

...Egocentric post of the year

Edited December 1, 2013 by Tchooptip

[Prbkk]

According to the just received S.M.S. (Nation Braking News) it seems as if there are in fact some 5 dead bodies in R.U. Now one must ask who were they Red Shirts or Students.?

If they are students is Jutuporn going to be charged with causing their deaths due to his incitement of violence against the R.U students ?

If as such they prove to be pro government Red Shirt dead how did they get into the university compound were they dragged in and killed? Somehow I doubt that and if they were Red Shirts why and what were their reasons or aims in being inside the R.U.campus ?

Old Russian proverb springs to mind.

Fate makes demands of flesh and blood.

And what does it most often demand?

Flesh and blood.

there is a link to the article above. It also reports a hand grenade found on campus...

[Jingthing]

Democrat. Suthep is fighting to return democracy to the Thai people through a parliament that truly represent all Thai people equally, set up by all Thai people. Current parliament is bought by Thaksin only to represent Thksin and his supporters.

Do you really think that? It seems to me there is a strong streak of anti-democratic sentiment coming from him -- that Thai people can't handle real democracy. He might be right but that's not the same thing as you are crediting him with.

[ramrod711]

Well it's good to see that the proposed "reconciliation" bill has brought all Thai's together...

Such a great idea....

First question to PM... "Given the results of trying to push through the so called "reconciliation" bill, do you still believe the bill was aptly named or was a good idea?"

Not sure why that question needs asking because actions speak louder. The bill was removed, even though it had a lot of merit, and staunch red shirts were also very opposed to it. Yet it was removed from consideration, thereby answering the question if the government sill considers it a good idea; clearly they don't.

Yet.. ... .. Suthep is trying to achieve something else entirely.

what merit would that be, bringing back the fugitive, scott free, or dropping hundreds of corruption charges against government officials? As for the violence, sorry to see it, but even you can't argue that Jatuporns bail should be revoked....before he and Nattawhut burn something.

[Hulkster]

You have protesters hijacking government buildings, inciting violence, intent on overthrowing the democratically government by any means necessary. Lethal force should be a last resort, but should it get to that stage I have no problem with the police and/or military using it to maintain control.

Nice to see you approve Abhisit's and Suthep's handling of the red siege of Bangkok in 2010.

Violence wasn't used as a last resort with snipers picking off protesters. Plus that government had no legitimacy.

On this occasion we have a democratically elected government who on Thursday easily survived a no confidence motion in parliament.

Should lethal force be required for the government to maintain control of the country, then it should be used.

How sad that a Farang should encourage the government to kill people.

I'm talking about using lethal force as a last resort. What amazing restraint Yingluck has shown. Just imagine a group of violent thugs trying to storm Capitol Hill or the White House. It would be shoot first ask questions later.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Hulkster

[ramrod711]

They are fighting for the end of government corruption and the Thaksin influence in Thai politics. Corruption and influence that put this rabble of a government in power in the first place. They would be welcomed to finish their term had they not been so damned aligned and loyal to Thaksin.

That's mighty decent from the minority opposition to consider allowing the majority to finish the elected term. If only they did exactly what the opposition wanted.

They can't seem to get it into their heads that Thaksin remains a highly respected person within the majority party. The likes of The Nation run countless stories how he's the bogeyman and the root of all evil, tirelessly prefixing him with the title 'fugituve' ad vomitum. That doesnt mean that the majority of the country sees it that way. And neither does the international press. They see Thaksin's conviction (in absentia) for something so incredibly minor that it's clear to see it was a politically motivated show trial, shortly after a military coup. What Thaksin was convicted for is the same sort of business dealing that Suthep did all day long during his entire career.

Thaksin is a criminal, period, and he will never get back here now. That is a good thing, maybe the only good thing to come out of this. I'm not even going to get into the parliamentary system with you, Abhisits government was as legal as Yinglucks, period The reds told them to get out, not in four months, Now. Seems like this would be a good time for Yingluck to leave, Now.

[Asiantravel]

Certainly time for water cannons and tear gas to clear this rabble. Overdue. People's committee? More like a gang of four

Oh don't worry. I am sure that those whom you glorify have all sorts of agendas that should satisfy your blood lust. Last night was a start for you, the police and reds have done you proud.

Unfortunately for you, the students proved to be a worthy match. Thus leaving no other option than for the red shirts to descend back to their normal ways of looting and indiscriminate violence against everything that moves and anyone's shop or home is a target. But hey, I suppose when you have the police aiding you and government backing for it.... why not.

I would love to ask the yellow shirt supporters what are they fighting for in such a violent action? I mean, what is so vital that it deserves the death of some of their fellow citizens

and deny the existing government the right to finish its term instead of campaigning in a general election as most countries around the world seemed to be able to do it effectively?

Hypothetically if the Democrats got into power now how would this change the lives of some of these protesters in any dramatic way in the short term or even the medium term compared to now?

First.

They are fighting for the end of government corruption and the Thaksin influence in Thai politics. Corruption and influence that put this rabble of a government in power in the first place. They would be welcomed to finish their term had they not been so damned aligned and loyal to Thaksin.

Hypothetically, can not exist in politics, and short term solutions do not exist, only in the minds of the Thaksin government that have made zero impact on their voters apart from cause danger to the economy and pushed the poor into more debt than they can afford.

Real stable politics always are long term. Things have to be worked on for a minimum period, all quick fixes are unworkable.

It takes a long time to get everything working correctly, and needs to start with eradication of corruption. Also the stupid rice scheme needs to go and a more leveled approach to assist all farmers of all types.

That is a ridiculous statement. There's always something that influences voters anywhere in the world

how are you going to deal with the north-eastern citizenry? Ban them from voting .................unless they support the Democrat party?

[zydeco]

I am perplexed by how some observers seem to equate this with the end of Marcos. No similarity at all ( well, except colour). However unpopular the govt ( and I , for one, agree that the rice pledging is sheer lunacy from an economic perspective), they remain legitimately elected . Thugs to the left, thugs to the right...ordinary Thai people ( the 90% not involved) don't want this violence and thuggery

Maybe more like the end of the Morsi regime, which was also elected and widely believed to be instilling the concept of "one vote, one time."

[siampolee]

Jingthing post # 288

Do you really think that? It seems to me there is a strong streak of anti-democratic sentiment coming from him -- that Thai people can't handle real democracy. He might be right but that's not the same thing as you are crediting him with.

Another Russian proverb

If you fight a dragon too long you will become one yourself.

[wolf5370]

Reports are saying that those shot were red shirt guards.

Sent from my phone ...

Actually, someone shot at about 2am was a red shirt guard, and another shot a short time ago. Both dead.

Sent from my phone ...

Actually he was a soldier - with varying reports as to his allegiance (his GF says White - others say Red) - but not a Red Guard. Other killed was a student, one of the 4 shot as Ram after the cops refused to come following a call from the Rector and students.

[ramrod711]

Jatuporn said it was fine for the students to rally inside their campus but if they attempted to block red-shirt people from entering the Rajamangala Stadium, the students themselves would get hurt.

Seems like adequate grounds for the courts to revoke bail. He and Yingluck can join Suthep and Abhisit in court. Of course, everyone knows she was only doing as she was told, so maybe they will go easy on her.

[wolf5370]

How is this all not just universally labeled "Suthep's fault"? He got what he wanted, and then continued to add fuel to the fire of the protesters. It is obvious that his motive is to cause mayhem/death/chaos in the country.

I don't think he got what he wanted - the peaceful anti-amnesty demonstrators did - then he self appointed himself leader and added practically impossible demands. Then used illegal, though peaceful, tactics like invading offices. He certainly started the downward spiral - but the Reds can not stand back and impart all blame when then bus in thousands of supporters to confront them (don't care what excuse they gave for coming - it is obvious by their actions, the tone on the stage and timing why they are here - and it took the army confiscating their weapons to get them to leave again!).

[DrDweeb]

"The circumstances were unclear but the violence came after an anti-government mob attacked Red Shirts arriving to join the rally in Ramkhamhaeng district."

So, according to that paragon of impartiality, the abc (us version), the redshirts were the innocent victims.

Right ... "we return to our normal progamming in progress"

[DrDweeb]

Perhaps I am colour blind, but ... I have been reviewing a lot of press photographs of the past few days purporting to show anti-government protesters.

Here on these forums, we are told by the red shirt apologists that the anti-government protestors are evil "yellow shirts".

What I see is a lot of Thai flags, and very few yellow shirts. Methinks there is a concerted effort by some red apologists to misrepresent the facts on the ground.

[TPI]

I doubt anybody could have predicted that bussing in thousands of amped-up red shirts could have led to violence occurring. Sad and surprising in equal measures. It is also a shame that Yingluck will be presumably arrested and charged for premeditated murder in a personal capacity.

Please stop taking the drugs!

[Asiantravel]

Perhaps I am colour blind, but ... I have been reviewing a lot of press photographs of the past few days purporting to show anti-government protesters.

Here on these forums, we are told by the red shirt apologists that the anti-government protestors are evil "yellow shirts".

What I see is a lot of Thai flags, and very few yellow shirts. Methinks there is a concerted effort by some red apologists to misrepresent the facts on the ground.

The only misrepresentation around here is denying a political party that was legitimately voted in by the majority the right to govern until the end of its term

[Biscuit22]

Oh don't worry. I am sure that those whom you glorify have all sorts of agendas that should satisfy your blood lust. Last night was a start for you, the police and reds have done you proud.

Unfortunately for you, the students proved to be a worthy match. Thus leaving no other option than for the red shirts to descend back to their normal ways of looting and indiscriminate violence against everything that moves and anyone's shop or home is a target. But hey, I suppose when you have the police aiding you and government backing for it.... why not.

I would love to ask the yellow shirt supporters what are they fighting for in such a violent action? I mean, what is so vital that it deserves the death of some of their fellow citizens

and deny the existing government the right to finish its term instead of campaigning in a general election as most countries around the world seemed to be able to do it effectively?

Hypothetically if the Democrats got into power now how would this change the lives of some of these protesters in any dramatic way in the short term or even the medium term compared to now?

First.

They are fighting for the end of government corruption and the Thaksin influence in Thai politics. Corruption and influence that put this rabble of a government in power in the first place. They would be welcomed to finish their term had they not been so damned aligned and loyal to Thaksin.

Hypothetically, can not exist in politics, and short term solutions do not exist, only in the minds of the Thaksin government that have made zero impact on their voters apart from cause danger to the economy and pushed the poor into more debt than they can afford.

Real stable politics always are long term. Things have to be worked on for a minimum period, all quick fixes are unworkable.

It takes a long time to get everything working correctly, and needs to start with eradication of corruption. Also the stupid rice scheme needs to go and a more leveled approach to assist all farmers of all types.

That is a ridiculous statement. There's always something that influences voters anywhere in the world

how are you going to deal with the north-eastern citizenry? Ban them from voting .................unless they support the Democrat party?

Just because you do not understand the statement, does not make it ridiculous.

Please read the post I was responding to before you come out with your own 'unrelated' questioning... or better still.

Don't respond to posts you don't understand.

[jdinasia]

I'm talking about using lethal force as a last resort. What amazing restraint Yingluck has shown. Just imagine a group of violent thugs trying to storm Capitol Hill or the White House. It would be shoot first ask questions later.

First ---- your assertion of "violent thugs". This has been fairly non-violent other than the outbreak of extreme violence around RU. That was started by the reds, but sadly ramped up by the students. Look into today's Breaking News section and you will see the majority of the serious violence can be laid completely at the feet of the reds that were here to "defend the government"

Second, We are not in Washington D.C. Though if a group of unarmed people tried. It would be Water Cannon, LRADs, and teargas. If it were a group like the reds in 2010 that were backed with an extremely violent extremely well armed group it would be different.

Your "shoot first ask questions" statement is just plain silly.

[Valentine]

They are fighting for the end of government corruption and the Thaksin influence in Thai politics. Corruption and influence that put this rabble of a government in power in the first place. They would be welcomed to finish their term had they not been so damned aligned and loyal to Thaksin.

That's mighty decent from the minority opposition to consider allowing the majority to finish the elected term. If only they did exactly what the opposition wanted.

They can't seem to get it into their heads that Thaksin remains a highly respected person within the majority party. The likes of The Nation run countless stories how he's the bogeyman and the root of all evil, tirelessly prefixing him with the title 'fugituve' ad vomitum. That doesnt mean that the majority of the country sees it that way. And neither does the international press. They see Thaksin's conviction (in absentia) for something so incredibly minor that it's clear to see it was a politically motivated show trial, shortly after a military coup. What Thaksin was convicted for is the same sort of business dealing that Suthep did all day long during his entire career.

He abused his power & was convicted but if you wish to talk about "incredibly minor" then it is compared to all the other charges he is facing which could see him spending the rest of his life in jail so there is very strong motive for amnesty.

It seems like inaction by police, despite pleas from the rector, could have been a cause of the deaths at the university.

[Spare]

They are fighting for the end of government corruption and the Thaksin influence in Thai politics. Corruption and influence that put this rabble of a government in power in the first place. They would be welcomed to finish their term had they not been so damned aligned and loyal to Thaksin.

That's mighty decent from the minority opposition to consider allowing the majority to finish the elected term. If only they did exactly what the opposition wanted.

They can't seem to get it into their heads that Thaksin remains a highly respected person within the majority party. The likes of The Nation run countless stories how he's the bogeyman and the root of all evil, tirelessly prefixing him with the title 'fugituve' ad vomitum. That doesnt mean that the majority of the country sees it that way. And neither does the international press. They see Thaksin's conviction (in absentia) for something so incredibly minor that it's clear to see it was a politically motivated show trial, shortly after a military coup. What Thaksin was convicted for is the same sort of business dealing that Suthep did all day long during his entire career.

He abused his power & was convicted but if you wish to talk about "incredibly minor" then it is compared to all the other charges he is facing which could see him spending the rest of his life in jail so there is very strong motive for amnesty.

It seems like inaction by police, despite pleas from the rector, could have been a cause of the deaths at the university.

Please don't blame the police. The police did not shoot these students. The red shirts did.

[wolf5370]

They are fighting for the end of government corruption and the Thaksin influence in Thai politics. Corruption and influence that put this rabble of a government in power in the first place. They would be welcomed to finish their term had they not been so damned aligned and loyal to Thaksin.

That's mighty decent from the minority opposition to consider allowing the majority to finish the elected term. If only they did exactly what the opposition wanted.

They can't seem to get it into their heads that Thaksin remains a highly respected person within the majority party. The likes of The Nation run countless stories how he's the bogeyman and the root of all evil, tirelessly prefixing him with the title 'fugituve' ad vomitum. That doesnt mean that the majority of the country sees it that way. And neither does the international press. They see Thaksin's conviction (in absentia) for something so incredibly minor that it's clear to see it was a politically motivated show trial, shortly after a military coup. What Thaksin was convicted for is the same sort of business dealing that Suthep did all day long during his entire career.

If it was so trivial why did he do a runner - and self exile for going on 7 years? Could that be because there are more charges waiting his return that are less trivial? Could it be that he was caught trying to bribe the judges? Adding the qualifier "fugitive" to a fugitive is incorrect? How so? If there is a story on Garry Glitter it is qualified with "convicted paedophile" - same thing. It clarifies and adds spice to the story, which every news outlet in the world does - and you can't honestly say the Thai rags are any different - most of the Thai headlines barely match the content of the articles!

The problem is, and will remain to be, that because PTP got in it is assumed by the pro-Thaksin Red camp that it was because of love of the great "fugitive" (whoops) leader - when it is more likely bugger all to do with him and more to do with the policies and promises made leading up the the election and the general dislike of the opposition up country. A blob-fish could have been in charge and still won the election given the facts - and there simply is no separating the issues - feelings over: the failed Rice Pledging scheme, delays in the minimum wage, cost of living rises (when the opposite was promised), tablet fiasco (and post election change from all school kids to just one year), and so on; showed where the real Red Heart was - in the promises of a better life for the poor - not in championing a self-exiled elite billionaire <deleted>.

[jdinasia]

The only misrepresentation around here is denying a political party that was legitimately voted in by the majority the right to govern until the end of its term

Ummm nope -- that entire post is a misrepresentation. PTP did not get the majority vote in either direct or proportional voting. It is fairly common for governments in Parliamentary democracies to fall when they fail.

When they get caught out doing blatantly undemocratic means inside of parliament, or scandal hits, they fall from external pressure even when they still maintain the numbers in parliament to survive a censure.

Just because you win it does not give you carte blanche to ignore the rule of law. You don't automatically get to have your own way. This is Thailand, a fairly new Democracy and some people in the country think like you do, that democracy=majoritarianism. It does not.

[wolf5370]

They are fighting for the end of government corruption and the Thaksin influence in Thai politics. Corruption and influence that put this rabble of a government in power in the first place. They would be welcomed to finish their term had they not been so damned aligned and loyal to Thaksin.

That's mighty decent from the minority opposition to consider allowing the majority to finish the elected term. If only they did exactly what the opposition wanted.

They can't seem to get it into their heads that Thaksin remains a highly respected person within the majority party. The likes of The Nation run countless stories how he's the bogeyman and the root of all evil, tirelessly prefixing him with the title 'fugituve' ad vomitum. That doesnt mean that the majority of the country sees it that way. And neither does the international press. They see Thaksin's conviction (in absentia) for something so incredibly minor that it's clear to see it was a politically motivated show trial, shortly after a military coup. What Thaksin was convicted for is the same sort of business dealing that Suthep did all day long during his entire career.

He abused his power & was convicted but if you wish to talk about "incredibly minor" then it is compared to all the other charges he is facing which could see him spending the rest of his life in jail so there is very strong motive for amnesty.

It seems like inaction by police, despite pleas from the rector, could have been a cause of the deaths at the university.

Please don't blame the police. The police did not shoot these students. The red shirts did.

The first student shot reported that it was a uniformed policeman with the red shirts - but that has gone unconfirmed (of course). The police refused to turn up when both the rector at Ram U and students called (some students even going in person to the station) for help before the killing last night - while their boss, the Interior Minister, was on the Red stage at the Stadium along with, ironically, the Education Minister!

[Biscuit22]

That's mighty decent from the minority opposition to consider allowing the majority to finish the elected term. If only they did exactly what the opposition wanted.

They can't seem to get it into their heads that Thaksin remains a highly respected person within the majority party. The likes of The Nation run countless stories how he's the bogeyman and the root of all evil, tirelessly prefixing him with the title 'fugituve' ad vomitum. That doesnt mean that the majority of the country sees it that way. And neither does the international press. They see Thaksin's conviction (in absentia) for something so incredibly minor that it's clear to see it was a politically motivated show trial, shortly after a military coup. What Thaksin was convicted for is the same sort of business dealing that Suthep did all day long during his entire career.

He abused his power & was convicted but if you wish to talk about "incredibly minor" then it is compared to all the other charges he is facing which could see him spending the rest of his life in jail so there is very strong motive for amnesty.

It seems like inaction by police, despite pleas from the rector, could have been a cause of the deaths at the university.

Please don't blame the police. The police did not shoot these students. The red shirts did.

So we are to ignore the fact that red shirts were transported in police pickups (if I can find that picture again I will post it).

Also the fact they stood idly by while armed red shirts were allowed to freely rampage around the streets discharging guns at the students?

Also they ignored pleas from protesters and the rector of RU that armed redshirts were inside the compound with guns and that marksmen were up on the elevated highway taking pot shots at the students.

The fact that they kept roads open and allowed red shirt access to the RU approach and said elevated highway.

There are probably many more reasons why the police can be clearly blamed for the deaths. They are paid to stop things like 'murder'... they clearly assisted it.

[jdinasia]

Please don't blame the police. The police did not shoot these students. The red shirts did.

Actually blaming the police is rather appropriate on some levels. not only did they fail to protect the students in the beginning (students were attacked by reds behore they acted out so badly!) The police then failed to create and maintain a barrier between the groups. They failed to deal with the continuing violence and eventually completely lost the trust of the people they should have been there to protect.

That it was the army (unarmed) that had to come in and get the surviving students off the campus really does tell the whole story.

(but if you read Thai, yesterday's article in ThaiRath online from before the violence broke out on the student's side will tell you "the rest of the story"

[Hulkster]

I'm talking about using lethal force as a last resort. What amazing restraint Yingluck has shown. Just imagine a group of violent thugs trying to storm Capitol Hill or the White House. It would be shoot first ask questions later.

First ---- your assertion of "violent thugs". This has been fairly non-violent other than the outbreak of extreme violence around RU. That was started by the reds, but sadly ramped up by the students. Look into today's Breaking News section and you will see the majority of the serious violence can be laid completely at the feet of the reds that were here to "defend the government"

Second, We are not in Washington D.C. Though if a group of unarmed people tried. It would be Water Cannon, LRADs, and teargas. If it were a group like the reds in 2010 that were backed with an extremely violent extremely well armed group it would be different.

Your "shoot first ask questions" statement is just plain silly.

I consider unruly mobs trying to storm barricaded government buildings to be violent. It's one step from complete anarchy. Even the Prime Minister had to be evacuated for her safety.

I think it's a legitimate comparison. If an unruly mob stormed Capitol Hill it would be a bloodbath.

If it comes to "shoot first ask questions" later then so be it. Police and soldiers cannot possibly know the intentions of every person in an unruly mob. The assumption should be that each and every person trying to storm a government building is a security threat that needs to be dealt with.