Why Was Nobody Interested In A Teaching Position?

[sirchai]

Hello and Sawasdee khrap,

I was just wondering why nobody even tried to look into the offered teaching position near Det Udon.

The usual guys making the usual jokes about a starting salary of 25K, having a one year contract in a good working environment.

Was the "no response issue" because the topic had been closed, ( because of some brainy comments, always coming from the same brainy people), or are there indeed no people out there looking for a teaching job?

I started making 17 K, as back in 2005 many schools all in a sudden started to hire Filipinos and only payed them 10 K/month.

How many schools would hire you right now with a 12 months contract?

Just curious to know why nobody seemed to be interested. Won't happen again though, roughly speaking.-

[Scott]

Sirchai: I don't know if I can answer your question or not, but I do the hiring for several schools in a group and the number of people applying right now is very, very low. It's unusually low, even for this time of year. We don't need any teachers right now, but there is usually a small, but steady stream of applicants.

If anything comes my way, I will send them a link to the forum and tell them to PM you.

[sirchai]

Sirchai: I don't know if I can answer your question or not, but I do the hiring for several schools in a group and the number of people applying right now is very, very low. It's unusually low, even for this time of year. We don't need any teachers right now, but there is usually a small, but steady stream of applicants.

If anything comes my way, I will send them a link to the forum and tell them to PM you.

Thanks, Scott. I usually post at ajarn.com, but thought it could be a nice job opportunity for somebody who likes to work/stay/ live here.With the possibility to start immediately, solving money/visa and other issues..

Thanks a lot for your input, wish you a great weekend. -

[zeichen]

If a job pays less than 30k, the only way that I would take it is if it were part time with less than 15 contact hours in straight blocks.

I can just do private lessons and workshops less than 10 hours a week and still earn more than 20k.

It is sad that jobs are paying less now than they were back in 2000.

[sirchai]

If a job pays less than 30k, the only way that I would take it is if it were part time with less than 15 contact hours in straight blocks.

I can just do private lessons and workshops less than 10 hours a week and still earn more than 20k.

It is sad that jobs are paying less now than they were back in 2000.

Considering the fact that they've to get the money from the parents, who aren't wealthy, understandable. Honestly speaking, an ideal start for somebody who wants to settle down here, or having a wife from this area.

As far as I recall, you're working in China right now. My post was meant to give somebody a helping hand.

I certainly know how it is to turn each baht around twice to make it until the end of the month. But I know why I'm doing it and for whom.

Unfortunately, the kids give me more than money can buy.-

Edited December 13, 2013 by sirchai

[Eddy B]

25K as a salary for a teacher is terrible regardless of where you are in Thailand. Petrol, cooking gas, housing and food prices have increased and will continue to all over the country. Does the school offer housing allowence, relocation help, visa payments, health/accident insurance or does the applicant also have to foot the bill for all of these also? If they do, it's not a good deal. Thats my thoughts, when I first came here in 2005 I got 35k a month, after 3 months half my airfare repaid, 3,000 a month housing allowence. Money back for visa runs, including food and hotel room for the night and travel costs. Free insurance not the general social security. 10 days sick per school year, 10 days business a year and 10 pays personal. And all this for 20-21 hours a week. No schools match this now, they are squeezing as much money as they can out of the foreign teacher.

The kids do make it sometimes feel like it does not matter about the salary but when you need to pay those bills it does matter at the end of the day.

[bundoi]

Well naturally it does depend on where you are: 25k won't go far in Bkk, but there are plenty of rural areas where it's more than enough to live comfortably.

PS I think there will very likely be a downward pressure on NES wages for a long-time given supply and demand from 2015. Personally I think this is a good thing for Thai schools in general: I really don't see that the value delivered by an NES teacher is worth the differential in most cases.

[Somtamnication]

I was considering it, but bills and all, I could not make it over there.

My private students (19 of them) make a huge difference, and I am not sure if I could get that many over there. Koreans pay 500 per hour, Japanese 700, and Russians 1000 per hour. I also tutor some Thais for free or very low hourly wage if in a group. I try to give back to the community when I can.

I am getting tired of Phuket, But for what your school pays, I would not apply.

I do wish the OP luck in his search. Sounds like a nice area.

[bobo42]

Well naturally it does depend on where you are: 25k won't go far in Bkk, but there are plenty of rural areas where it's more than enough to live comfortably.

PS I think there will very likely be a downward pressure on NES wages for a long-time given supply and demand from 2015. Personally I think this is a good thing for Thai schools in general: I really don't see that the value delivered by an NES teacher is worth the differential in most cases.

Not a teacher, but I do live in a rural area. I rent a modest home, I have my comforts, but I don't spend extravigantly, and rarely drink. I could not live reasonably on 25k - on that money, I'd be living like a starving (western) college student. When I was a student, I've certainly had enough noodle-pack dinners, crowded apartments, and empty pockets to last a lifetime, would not wish for that again. Some things are cheaper out in the country, but not by much, and you get what you pay for. 25k is just unimaginable - unless its for 2 days a week or less, then it sounds great.

[bundoi]

Well naturally it does depend on where you are: 25k won't go far in Bkk, but there are plenty of rural areas where it's more than enough to live comfortably.

PS I think there will very likely be a downward pressure on NES wages for a long-time given supply and demand from 2015. Personally I think this is a good thing for Thai schools in general: I really don't see that the value delivered by an NES teacher is worth the differential in most cases.

Not a teacher, but I do live in a rural area. I rent a modest home, I have my comforts, but I don't spend extravigantly, and rarely drink. I could not live reasonably on 25k - on that money, I'd be living like a starving (western) college student. When I was a student, I've certainly had enough noodle-pack dinners, crowded apartments, and empty pockets to last a lifetime, would not wish for that again. Some things are cheaper out in the country, but not by much, and you get what you pay for. 25k is just unimaginable - unless its for 2 days a week or less, then it sounds great.

I'm genuinely surprised and very interested in your response; and I honestly would be interested in a breakdown or at least a summary of your outgoings (naturally preserving privacy etc); I live on far less than that and believe me I don't scrimp. Ok I don't rent, but rural rents are almost nothing compared to Bkk anyway. I hope this doesn't sound confrontational, it's not intended to be.

[zeichen]

" Considering the fact that they've to get the money from the parents, who aren't wealthy, understandable. Honestly speaking, an ideal start for somebody who wants to settle down here, or having a wife from this area."

25k is not ideal start for anyone especially with a wife

It depresses me that salaries have actually gone down in the past 12 years I have worked in Thailand. My last positionb in Thailand paid me 35k and that was the least I have been paid. Most of my colleagues that were fresh out of school or trying to build a life or career moved on after only one term because it really wasn't enough.

No one gets into teaching to become rich, but that doesn't mean that we have to live like beggars. I really get sick of how poor parents are as an argument or how cheap it is to live. Thailand pays the lowest wages out of any country in the area.

When I taught in Korea, I made about 70k baht a month and the irony is the fees were only about 10% higher than what my school charged in CM.

Schools here charge a lot for what they offer.

Thailand should raise standards for their teachers, demand more professional development, and actually learn how to hire foreign teachers. Most high end international schools in Thailand have top notch teachers, but they have to recruit and pay a lot more than 25k.

Why do you think that I had to go to China. I make well over 100k baht in China and easily save 60% of my salary. Thailand needs to step up the game or accept that most that work in schools aren't teachers.

[bundoi]

Guys, what I'm really having difficulty understanding is...

if you want a salary that pays a mortgage (on a house you can own), and a nice car, and a holiday in the sun once or twice a year and health care and pensions whose provisions you can understand...etc etc... why are you working in Thailand or SE Asia?

just stay home... I mean back home.

[recom273]

How much do you consider a cheap rent to be ? .. for an inhabitable dwelling suited for a western person.

Putting aside the rising cost of living in Thailand, i dont know of any apartment landlord who would consider renting anything for less than 100B a day + utilities at a premium rate. That entitles you to a room with a bed and a shower.

My wife manages the household, I spend about 9K a month of an clean and comfortable, unfurnished 2 bed townhouse, (5K for rent, 5K for electricity, water, internet, a cheap non-english TV true package, 2x mobile phones ). That would leave 15K for food, transport and luxuries. Thats 500B a day !!

Putting the comparisons and ( justified ) bitching about the Thai system aside for a moment .. Zeichen is only presenting the truth.

I think you are also correct, if we want all the comforts of a home salary, then stay there .. but we are here to enjoy a better quality of life, 500B a day to feed a couple, and save money to enjoy the weekends isnt going very far, you must admit.

I feel sorry for the fact that the system doesnt provide and the parents have to dig further into their own pockets, but teachers didnt create the system, we just try to survive in it the best we can.

Surviving on 25K isnt practical, there are too many problems that can emerge from poor living conditions and stress from trying to manage life.

Zeichen is also correct. I would also be wary of someone who wants to give it a try-out .. i have seen it too many times, some guy turns up with his entire life in a suitcase, the kids get connected, start to improve only to be drop kicked when the teacher does a runner at the end of the semester because the money isnt enough or they cant fit into a rural setting.

Maybe suggest to your friend that 25K isnt going to keep a decent teacher for a long run. In the short term, its a waste of money. Let her take that to the school director who maybe able to stump up an additional 5K a month to get someone who really cares about staying the course and educating the kids.

[smileplur]

It's really quite simple. It has already been pointed out that the salary is the problem. I don't know anyone who would be willing to work for that salary. My part-time job pays significantly more than that. My full-time job is more than double that. With a family (wife and child), car, motorbike, and all the expenses that go along with those things, I would not be able to have a comfortable life. That's all there is to it. When I can match that salary only working for 6 hours a day, once a week on Saturdays, why would anyone be interested in a position that pays so little?

[bundoi]

If salary is the problem, why not go go home where u can earn more ?

I haven't interviewed an NES who can give half the value of a bi-lingual Thai , even though the NES wants twice as much !!

[SlyAnimal]

I'd say that people didn't apply because:

1/ It's not really "hiring time" at the moment, so there's less people looking

2/ It's not paying a lot of money

3/ it's in the countryside

25,000 is enough to survive on, but you wouldn't be putting much away on savings each month. For myself, I live in a town which is smaller than Det Udom (I think you guys have a Tesco Lotus there right? We're lucky enough to have 3x 7/11s and a Tesco Lotus Express, but that's our claim to fame), and so I'd imagine that my cost of living is probably similar to what you guys have.

When I was single, I would have spent around 15-20k per month, although I did have a free school house. That was even including going away to the local city most weekends to go out and party etc. But I was extremely bored during the week, and really didn't enjoy countryside living. I wouldn't have gone to the countryside for 25,000, as saving 5-10k per month wouldn't have been worth the isolation.

Now that I'm not single (I met a nice girl in the town where I work), I spend closer to 25,000 (I felt like I needed to improve my standard of living when it wasn't just me). I don't go away every weekend, but do occasionally go out. If I was on 25,000, I wouldn't be able to save anything, and I think that it's important to save a decent amount each month.

That'd put most people into a very vulnerable situation. If their wife/gf worked, that'd be fine, but in an Amphur town, they might find it difficult to get a job. However, if your school could also offer a job to someone's partner (Assuming they were qualified in a field), that might help to convince people.

If someone had a wife and children, they'd struggle to survive on 25,000, at least not while living comfortably. They could live "Thai style", but on a single income with a wife and kids, 25,000 would probably be pushing it. Either way, it's not something they'd want to probably risk, particularly as moving is a lot more of a hassle for anyone with kids, since it means new schools etc. Free schooling for teacher's children in the school's English program or similar would be a nice bonus to attract families though.

Likewise if the school can offer a free house + free electricity that might help to attract people. Although any free house would need to be to a high standard, one of our new teachers took a look at the free house my school offered him, and turned it down as it wasn't at a high enough standard for him to be comfortable in.

Sometimes the extra perks associated with a job are more important to people than extra money, and they don't cost the school anything.

Anywho, that's my 2c

[bundoi]

This is why we hire bi-lingual Thais. Farangs are just so inflexible, too much trouble and unable to communicate with the students.

[SlyAnimal]

If salary is the problem, why not go go home where u can earn more ?

I haven't interviewed an NES who can give half the value of a bi-lingual Thai , even though the NES wants twice as much !!

Most of those NES teachers probably wanted twice as much as the bi-lingual Thai teachers, because they saw other jobs advertised which were paying similar amounts.

Most of the teachers who are willing to teach in an area like Det Udom are people who want to have to have an enjoyable, relaxed lifestyle (Or who have a gf/wife who lives nearby). That, combined with the lower cost of living, is why they accept salaries significantly lower than in farangland.

25,000 is just a little bit too of a pay cut for most people, particularly when there are a lot of other jobs available, in urban areas, which pay the same or more.

[Eddy B]

If salary is the problem, why not go go home where u can earn more ?

I haven't interviewed an NES who can give half the value of a bi-lingual Thai , even though the NES wants twice as much !!

I love the first part of this "Go home where you can earn more?" I am sure you are not a thai national or NES speaker. Why should NES be giving more money? We can speak the NATIVE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!! Not half-assed attempts of saying a english word. I have to agree that most, including myself find grammer teaching a pain but we learnt this as a child. Thais teach the grammer we teach the speaking, its that simple.

[bundoi]

_{Maybe Sly.}

_{I think maybe your values represent a redundant western viewpoint.}

[bundoi]

If salary is the problem, why not go go home where u can earn more ?

I haven't interviewed an NES who can give half the value of a bi-lingual Thai , even though the NES wants twice as much !!

I love the first part of this "Go home where you can earn more?" I am sure you are not a thai national or NES speaker. Why should NES be giving more money? We can speak the NATIVE ENGLISH LANGUAGE!! Not half-assed attempts of saying a english word. I have to agree that most, including myself find grammer teaching a pain but we learnt this as a child. Thais teach the grammer we teach the speaking, its that simple.

Well Eddy , are you a teacher ? Are you NES ? If so surely you can earn more in your home country than you can in Thailand?

[bundoi]

Apologies for the font glitches. Let me reiterate and elaborate - I have interviewed many aspiring teachers. My experience is that Thais are the best teachers of English for Thai students. If there are any farangs out there who can speak even Patom 1 level, please let me know ;-)

[bundoi]

It's really quite simple. It has already been pointed out that the salary is the problem. I don't know anyone who would be willing to work for that salary. My part-time job pays significantly more than that. My full-time job is more than double that. With a family (wife and child), car, motorbike, and all the expenses that go along with those things, I would not be able to have a comfortable life. That's all there is to it. When I can match that salary only working for 6 hours a day, once a week on Saturdays, why would anyone be interested in a position that pays so little?

OK :-) you have job you like at the moment, I hope you continue to like it :-)

[bundoi]

25,000 is enough to survive on, but you wouldn't be putting much away on savings each month.

Sly, I'm sure you're a nice guy and yr heart's in the right place, but do u really think u can put away enough savings by working in Thailand?

I love Thailand, don't get me wrong, but it's never been a place for westerners to earn a living, apart from bombing neighbouring nations.

If you're one of those many farangs living here on yr dad's wealth, then no problem, otherwise take stock and take care.

[zeichen]

I cannot believe the comment that if I want to have a home and a car that I should stay in my home country. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. If all of my Thai colleagues drive cars, then why do I have to drive a motorcycle? the comments about living like a Thai, what do you actually mean living like a farmer? Middle class Thais make a lot more than 25k to support a family. Teachers should be middle class and not less.

A family man with ability and qualifications who can provide more for students than a pronunciation monkey, deserves enough to live and not just survive. I have roots in the community and want my children to have a good education and have a future.

For backpackers looking to extend their holiday, students on a gap year, retirees who have a pension, income isn't a priority but for most professional educators trying to build a family and enjoy life, 25k for a full time job is just not enough.

When native speakers are getting paid less as teachers than many Thai teachers, it is time to move on. My wife earns about 28k a month and only has 12 teaching hours. Granted she has a crazy amount of meetings and paperwork that I would hate to do.

Bundoi: "If so surely you can earn more in your home country than you can in Thailand?"

Well qualified teachers have the option of working in International schools which can actually pay more and allow for greater savings than back in the west.

Bundoi: "This is why we hire bi-lingual Thais. Farangs are just so inflexible, too much trouble and unable to communicate with the students."

"I have interviewed many aspiring teachers. My experience is that Thais are the best teachers of English for Thai students"

First of all, I don't necessarily believe that you are in any position where you actually hire educators, but even if you are, what qualified you for that position? Do you have a Masters in Education or at the least TESOL? Or are you just another person who left their job and life in the west for some idylic life in a foreign country.

Your comments about Thais being the best teachers of English clearly shows your ignorance on what is needed in the classroom.

If you have read anything about the current system in Thailand, you will know that many schools in Thailand are having serious trouble with Thai teachers. First of all there was a test done a few years back where 80% of Thai teachers failed their subject tests. Second, recently directors and administrators are quite upset because recent grads are only learning theory because their teachers are only academics and have not spent much time in the classroom with young learners.

Now specifically to English being taught. Translating and communicating in Thai with students isn't helping them progress past lower level to intermediate ability. Bilingual teachers are typically those that can barely communicate or explain English rules or meaning in English. IF one is to build an active vocabulary, they need to understand the language through the language. If a student is just translating every word, then the native language interferes even more than normal. For very beginners, translation-lecture method is useful and can make the classroom easier to manage for the less motivated students. However, to get a higher communicative and comprehensive ability.

I will agree that those westerners that are looking for work and accepting low wages typically aren't the best teachers, but that is the problem. Thai teachers typically don't have a clue how to create an inteligent classroom that allows inquiry based learning. I would be surprised if most teachers could come up with 5 different strategies to teach/aproach the same material.

Even most barely qualified foreigners here so proud of their TEFL certificate at best learn about varrying their lessons a little to compensate for multiple intelligences. However even then they do little more than scatter their lessons with a few different activities thinking that will make them more student centered.

If Thai education is going to make it comparable with the rest of ASEAN, it needs to demand more from its teachers and pay them more,

[newatthis]

If salary is the problem, why not go go home where u can earn more ?

I haven't interviewed an NES who can give half the value of a bi-lingual Thai , even though the NES wants twice as much !!

I think your first sentence is a very callous statement. The "If you......then go home" utterance is too often used in Thailand forums as a "end all and be all" solution. People can choose to live and work where they want and also entitled to reasonable remuneration for their work. My wife and I don't live in Bangkok and we own our home. Our Thai next-door neighbour had to go and work long hours in Bangkok for 30,000+baht because their daughter was going to university. The neighbour's house on the other side has three people working in the household to support themselves and their children. We have a daughter studying at uni in Bangkok and there goes 10,000baht each month in housing, food, etc for her. Therefore, if I was being paid 25,000 per month, we'd have 15,000 before electric, water and other essential bills. My wife tells me how much food has increased over the last years, so I have to agree with other posters here. The minimum should be 30,000baht.

[puchooay]

25,000 is enough to survive on, but you wouldn't be putting much away on savings each month.

Sly, I'm sure you're a nice guy and yr heart's in the right place, but do u really think u can put away enough savings by working in Thailand?

I love Thailand, don't get me wrong, but it's never been a place for westerners to earn a living, apart from bombing neighbouring nations.

If you're one of those many farangs living here on yr dad's wealth, then no problem, otherwise take stock and take care.

I live in the sticks. I have a 30000 baht a month teaching job. I have a few extra classes on the side and my wife has a salary of 7000 a month (her choice to work BTW). I have a daughter in P6 at a local, good, government school.

We have a house, pickup and 2 motorbikes. We have life assurance policies and we have health care. We live a good life and eat what we want. I often stop off in the village shop for a couple of beers on the way home.

I can save more money here, per month, than any of my mates that live in the UK under the same circumstances.

[NeverSure]

If salary is the problem, why not go go home where u can earn more ?

I haven't interviewed an NES who can give half the value of a bi-lingual Thai , even though the NES wants twice as much !!

Apparently you don't have much experience in your field. I do know Thais who teach "English" in Isaan. The trouble is that they learned "English" from Thais all through school and even in uni. They are quite good at writing and translating and they know spelling and grammar...

But they can't pronounce the English words correctly so they teach it all wrong to their students. No one is learning to speak English. Worse, they do most of their speaking in the class room in Thai.

Are you an NES? If so, how did you learn English? How and at what stage of your life did you become fluent in English? You were fluent in English before you went to school and learned grammar, etc. Your early life was a total immersion in English.

The only way those kids will become fluent in English is if the class is taught in English by an NES.

[Theo007]

The salary is very low. Eleven years ago I taught at a school in Bangkok and my salary was 35,000 baht and I was paid a substantial bonus at the end of the contract. The school also provided me with a few private students as well. Actually teaching was only twenty hours a week however I had to be at the school from 7.30 am - 4.00 pm.

[Scott]

At this time of the year, I would be tempted to accept a lower salary and be employed rather than no salary and being unemployed. But then that is just me.