Disband the TPVs and similar groups

[phuketsub]

I find it remarkable that the TPV can exist at all; could you imagine, say, the New York City Police deputizing mostly retired foreigners from a wide variety of countries and giving them official-looking garb to walk the streets in? If such a thing exists anywhere else on the planet I would like to know about it.

From my experiences I find it hard to believe anyone could be intimidated by the TPV; They remind me of the "rent-a-cop" security guards back in the States, and they have little or no official powers, though in this land of "influential figures" that doesn't have to matter that much.

Then again I don't get out much, so maybe I am missing out on something.

What I find impressive is how they can muster the time and finances to do it at all -- If I had that much free time and money I'd probably get into trouble.

[transam]

I find it remarkable that the TPV can exist at all; could you imagine, say, the New York City Police deputizing mostly retired foreigners from a wide variety of countries and giving them official-looking garb to walk the streets in? If such a thing exists anywhere else on the planet I would like to know about it.

From my experiences I find it hard to believe anyone could be intimidated by the TPV; They remind me of the "rent-a-cop" security guards back in the States, and they have little or no official powers, though in this land of "influential figures" that doesn't have to matter that much.

Then again I don't get out much, so maybe I am missing out on something.

What I find impressive is how they can muster the time and finances to do it at all -- If I had that much free time and money I'd probably get into trouble.

Perhaps you don't understand that the TPV can point a farang out of a lot of trouble with the BiB. Thats what I can do.

[IrishIvan]

I actually posted a similar idea which Simon has taken on board.

Not quite true

I established the TA Phuket group and website (taphuket.com) in early October 2011, although I've let the domain lapse. You can still see the meta details at https://www.google.com/#q=taphuket.com

Simon

ok lets just say I rekindled your interest, after this mornings comments

[HeavyDrinker]

Many such instances never make it to a formal charge of abuse or corruption, but I think we all know of instances where such volunteers have abused their authority to extort others, where it be for money or a free drink in a bar.

I very much doubt this is true, and people only know about these abuses 'through the grapevine', where many rumours float around and only a small percentage is true.

Don't let this recent 'happening' form your opinion, but form it on what is really happening here, and not on rumours. And if something needs to be done, so be it.

I think the snag is that that the system is wide open for rumours, urban myth and gossip. All it takes is one incident (like the recent one) and the few in Pattaya and the whole system loses credibility and the naysayers can recline in their barstools saying "I told you so".....

[merijn]

Many such instances never make it to a formal charge of abuse or corruption, but I think we all know of instances where such volunteers have abused their authority to extort others, where it be for money or a free drink in a bar.

I very much doubt this is true, and people only know about these abuses 'through the grapevine', where many rumours float around and only a small percentage is true.

Don't let this recent 'happening' form your opinion, but form it on what is really happening here, and not on rumours. And if something needs to be done, so be it.

I think the snag is that that the system is wide open for rumours, urban myth and gossip. All it takes is one incident (like the recent one) and the few in Pattaya and the whole system loses credibility and the naysayers can recline in their barstools saying "I told you so".....

The system is indeed wide open for rumors, But what can they do about it ?

Negative stories are always much interesting for other to comment on then simple the fact or positive stories.

[simon43]

The system is indeed wide open for rumors, But what can they do about it

In other volunteer organisations, the management/board try to minimise the possibility of bad PR by performing stringent background checks, psychological assessments, ongoing professional training and ongloing assessment and monitoring, - to identify and remove any dickheads, wannabe rambos or mentally deranged volunteers.

Other volunteer oreganisations are run in a professional manner, so why not the police volunteers???

You maybe get the message that although I've been a TPV for yonks, I am far from happy about how this organisation is managed and how it operates on a day-to-day basis.

But hey! - This is Thailand!

Simon

[couchpotato]

Quote "I'm speaking from experience here, having worked as a TPV or Royal Thai Police volunteer in Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket for 6 years".

Simon I'd like to know who you worked with in Pattaya, as from your comments you have never been a Tourist Police Volunteer/Assistant there. Please explain thanks...

[bob4you]

Simon, not meaning to hijack your thread but not only did you ruffle my feathers but you are 180 degrees wrong in so many ways. I have been FTPA (Foreign Tourist Police Assistant) in Pattaya for 8 years and I agree with another TV member that you never were on board with us in Pattaya because so much of what you say does not apply to our group here.

We are well trained by our Team Leaders who are under the leadership of our Group leader, a retired police officer from the UK. We have monthly mandatory instructional and training meetings that are helpful and informative. While many of us don't have the ability to converse in Thai one of the guidelines of the "Royal Thai Tourist Police division" is that they have a basic ability to converse in English. Now withing our group everyone speaks English fluently (granted I struggle with some of the accents) we, on any given night at our duty desk on Walking street. We have the ability as foreign volunteers to speak at least 10 other languages besides English and Thai and the Tourist police welcome us both as translators and appreciate our ability to both help and sooth the foreigners that come to us for assistance.

Anything we carry on our utility belt (handcuffs, pepper spray, extendable batons, radios, telephones, cameras, we are specifically instructed on their usage and that they must only be used as defensive protection for us, our team mates and the general public and any use of such requires it be written in our log book and certified by the Group leader as justified.

I also agree with your need for Tourist assistants not connected with the police or not in uniform and we in Pattaya are moving in that direction. A budget has been approved to install a "Tourist Assistance Center" at the entrance to Walking street and when that is finished we and other departments will handle assisting the Tourist when the van and officers are not on duty at the front of Walking Street.

Every body is entitled to an opinion just as each of us are entitled to refute what someone else that does not have all of the true facts and is hopefully willing to take a closer look.

When the TAC is complete I invite you to come down some afternoon and see what you think.

With that I say Aloha, mali nui loa (thank you very much) and Mele Kaliki Maka (Merry Christmas)\

[falkan]

if you can't speak fluent thai what help are you then for tourists to mediate in a dispute? c'mon son if you going to play police at least learn the local language..

[MB1]

Simon, not meaning to hijack your thread but not only did you ruffle my feathers but you are 180 degrees wrong in so many ways. I have been FTPA (Foreign Tourist Police Assistant) in Pattaya for 8 years and I agree with another TV member that you never were on board with us in Pattaya because so much of what you say does not apply to our group here.

We are well trained by our Team Leaders who are under the leadership of our Group leader, a retired police officer from the UK. We have monthly mandatory instructional and training meetings that are helpful and informative. While many of us don't have the ability to converse in Thai one of the guidelines of the "Royal Thai Tourist Police division" is that they have a basic ability to converse in English. Now withing our group everyone speaks English fluently (granted I struggle with some of the accents) we, on any given night at our duty desk on Walking street. We have the ability as foreign volunteers to speak at least 10 other languages besides English and Thai and the Tourist police welcome us both as translators and appreciate our ability to both help and sooth the foreigners that come to us for assistance.

Anything we carry on our utility belt (handcuffs, pepper spray, extendable batons, radios, telephones, cameras, we are specifically instructed on their usage and that they must only be used as defensive protection for us, our team mates and the general public and any use of such requires it be written in our log book and certified by the Group leader as justified.

I also agree with your need for Tourist assistants not connected with the police or not in uniform and we in Pattaya are moving in that direction. A budget has been approved to install a "Tourist Assistance Center" at the entrance to Walking street and w the hen that is finished we and other departments will handle assisting the Tourist when the van and officers are not on duty at the front of Walking Street.

Every body is entitled to an opinion just as each of us are entitled to refute what someone else that does not have all of the true facts and is hopefully willing to take a closer look.

When the TAC is complete I invite you to come down some afternoon and see what you think.

With that I say Aloha, mali nui loa (thank you very much) and Mele Kaliki Maka (Merry Christmas)\

Are you there to help tourists or are you there to help the Thai Police, what's up, can't the Thai police do their jobs so need foreign volunteers to back em up you people wonder why you are sometimes the butt of jokes past and present, and past and present critics...

You people carry pepper spray, handcuffs, batons, the uniform IMO aint tourist freindly....Oh and some of the bad press and rotten apples over the years don't look too good does it...

Help the tourists by all means, help with tranlations, help sort out disputes but get rid of the weapons and uniform and leave the Thai Police to do the police work, you can dress like a copper, you can look like a copper but you aint a copper, the Thai Police are..

I'm of the opinion that some volunteers do it for the uniform, think it's it's some kind of status symbol and makes them look powerful...

IMO, simon has made some good points, I'll make another one or 3, disband and start again, and all wear pink fluffy tourist freindly shirts, no weapons allowed, all must have a decent knowledge of the spoken Thai language...

Edited December 18, 2013 by MB1

[simon43]

Simon I'd like to know who you worked with in Pattaya, as from your comments you have never been a Tourist Police Volunteer/Assistant there.

Whilst working on a software contract in Pattaya about 4 years ago, I worked for about 12 months as a volunteer with the Royal Thai Police, based at Soi 8 police station. (I still have my old police ID card).

I worked primarily as a Thai language translator. Out of choice, I did not opt to work for the volunteers who patrol Walking Strett because .. erhum ... some (not all) of them had such a terrible reputation.

Sorry if the truth hurts...

Simon

[KarenBravo]

Yes, a certain "leader" of the TPV in Pattaya also used his position to get exclusive stories for a certain newspaper that he owned.......

[MB1]

Simon I'd like to know who you worked with in Pattaya, as from your comments you have never been a Tourist Police Volunteer/Assistant there.

Whilst working on a software contract in Pattaya about 4 years ago, I worked for about 12 months as a volunteer with the Royal Thai Police, based at Soi 8 police station. (I still have my old police ID card).

I worked primarily as a Thai language translator. Out of choice, I did not opt to work for the volunteers who patrol Walking Strett because .. erhum ... some (not all) of them had such a terrible reputation.

Sorry if the truth hurts...

Simon

Prepare for the de- bunk myth squad to pop along and say it's all a conspiracy to give them a bad name, all the press coverage, all the rumours, all the threads on TV over the years, it's all lies...

[MB1]

Yes, a certain "leader" of the TPV in Pattaya also used his position to get exclusive stories for a certain newspaper that he owned.......

And then look back at what his next position was when he left....Oh and not forgetting his fame as a TV star on BTITT....."Do Not Resist"..

[HeavyDrinker]

The only positive posts I've ever read about them is from the TPVs themselves or some of their yappy lapdogs...

[simon43]

Oh and some of the bad press and rotten apples over the years don't look too good does it...

There are certainly some good, honest and hard-working volunteers in these teams. But you only hear about the bad 'uns. The problem as I see it, is that lack of effective management, checks and balances etc means that bad 'uns exist in all these volunteer teams, leading to the whole team being tarred with the same brush.

In any other volunteer organisation, charity, orphanage etc, bad 'uns would be kicked out as rapidly as possible, because the organisation management would recognise the damage that is being caused to their reputation. But it seems that with these volunteer teams, errors of judgement by the volunteers or illegal/dubious activities are overlooked or ignored. Why is this?? (I can guess the answer, but what do you think?)

Simon

[MB1]

Oh and some of the bad press and rotten apples over the years don't look too good does it...

There are certainly some good, honest and hard-working volunteers in these teams. But you only hear about the bad 'uns. The problem as I see it, is that lack of effective management, checks and balances etc means that bad 'uns exist in all these volunteer teams, leading to the whole team being tarred with the same brush.

In any other volunteer organisation, charity, orphanage etc, bad 'uns would be kicked out as rapidly as possible, because the organisation management would recognise the damage that is being caused to their reputation. But it seems that with these volunteer teams, errors of judgement by the volunteers or illegal/dubious activities are overlooked or ignored. Why is this?? (I can guess the answer, but what do you think?)

Simon

Conflict of interest...

[NamKangMan]

I think a "Tourist Assistant Service" or "Tourist Advisory Service" or something similar, is a good idea. Even if many of the current TPV come over to it.

Phuket gets tourists from all over the world, and in many countries, people fear, or do not trust their police, so, as soon as they see the word "Police" on a uniform, they avoid contact, which defeats the purpose of being there in the first place.

These "assistants" can still be observers for the BiB if any trouble starts, but they should not make arrests or enter into the "mediation" process on behalf of the BiB. Tourists can call their Embassy for legal assistance.

Basically, perform a role similar to the TPV at the Immigration Office, but on the street - just helping with directions, giving local knowledge, helping with some basic translation with locals etc.

I think you will find this would make the organisation more approachable, and therefore more accepted by the public.

[Somtamnication]

Oh and some of the bad press and rotten apples over the years don't look too good does it...

There are certainly some good, honest and hard-working volunteers in these teams. But you only hear about the bad 'uns. The problem as I see it, is that lack of effective management, checks and balances etc means that bad 'uns exist in all these volunteer teams, leading to the whole team being tarred with the same brush.

In any other volunteer organisation, charity, orphanage etc, bad 'uns would be kicked out as rapidly as possible, because the organisation management would recognise the damage that is being caused to their reputation. But it seems that with these volunteer teams, errors of judgement by the volunteers or illegal/dubious activities are overlooked or ignored. Why is this?? (I can guess the answer, but what do you think?)

Simon

Conflict of interest...

There is no translation into Thai for that phrase.

[merijn]

I think a "Tourist Assistant Service" or "Tourist Advisory Service" or something similar, is a good idea. Even if many of the current TPV come over to it.

Phuket gets tourists from all over the world, and in many countries, people fear, or do not trust their police, so, as soon as they see the word "Police" on a uniform, they avoid contact, which defeats the purpose of being there in the first place.

These "assistants" can still be observers for the BiB if any trouble starts, but they should not make arrests or enter into the "mediation" process on behalf of the BiB. Tourists can call their Embassy for legal assistance.

Basically, perform a role similar to the TPV at the Immigration Office, but on the street - just helping with directions, giving local knowledge, helping with some basic translation with locals etc.

I think you will find this would make the organisation more approachable, and therefore more accepted by the public.

Small correction, the volunteers at the Immigration Office are NOT TPV.

They are PIV. ( Phuket Immigration Volunteers )

[simon43]

Small correction, the volunteers at the Immigration Office are NOT TPV.

They are PIV. ( Phuket Immigration Volunteers )

Thanks for that detail, but your comment simply reinforces one of my complaints about the present system.

TPV, PIV, ABC, XYZ.... whatever. It is a mismash of different groups with different uniforms, different rules, different bosses. IMHO, there should be one single group, one single 'brand', one single uniform, one common set of rules and aims, one single managing team that is outside the control and influence of the local police or government authorities.

I'm not criticising the indiviudual work/efforts of those volunteers in the immigration office. I'm criticisng the 'grand plan'...

... because there isn't one.

[NamKangMan]

I think a "Tourist Assistant Service" or "Tourist Advisory Service" or something similar, is a good idea. Even if many of the current TPV come over to it.

Phuket gets tourists from all over the world, and in many countries, people fear, or do not trust their police, so, as soon as they see the word "Police" on a uniform, they avoid contact, which defeats the purpose of being there in the first place.

These "assistants" can still be observers for the BiB if any trouble starts, but they should not make arrests or enter into the "mediation" process on behalf of the BiB. Tourists can call their Embassy for legal assistance.

Basically, perform a role similar to the TPV at the Immigration Office, but on the street - just helping with directions, giving local knowledge, helping with some basic translation with locals etc.

I think you will find this would make the organisation more approachable, and therefore more accepted by the public.

Small correction, the volunteers at the Immigration Office are NOT TPV.

They are PIV. ( Phuket Immigration Volunteers )

I never knew that. Of course, I have never bothered to read the fine print on their uniforms. I'm always learning something new here. Thanks.

[IrishIvan]

I think a "Tourist Assistant Service" or "Tourist Advisory Service" or something similar, is a good idea. Even if many of the current TPV come over to it.

Phuket gets tourists from all over the world, and in many countries, people fear, or do not trust their police, so, as soon as they see the word "Police" on a uniform, they avoid contact, which defeats the purpose of being there in the first place.

These "assistants" can still be observers for the BiB if any trouble starts, but they should not make arrests or enter into the "mediation" process on behalf of the BiB. Tourists can call their Embassy for legal assistance.

Basically, perform a role similar to the TPV at the Immigration Office, but on the street - just helping with directions, giving local knowledge, helping with some basic translation with locals etc.

I think you will find this would make the organisation more approachable, and therefore more accepted by the public.

Small correction, the volunteers at the Immigration Office are NOT TPV.

They are PIV. ( Phuket Immigration Volunteers )

I never knew that. Of course, I have never bothered to read the fine print on their uniforms. I'm always learning something new here. Thanks.

Immigration Volunteers are great. They should be paid.

[falkan]

I think a "Tourist Assistant Service" or "Tourist Advisory Service" or something similar, is a good idea. Even if many of the current TPV come over to it.

Phuket gets tourists from all over the world, and in many countries, people fear, or do not trust their police, so, as soon as they see the word "Police" on a uniform, they avoid contact, which defeats the purpose of being there in the first place.

These "assistants" can still be observers for the BiB if any trouble starts, but they should not make arrests or enter into the "mediation" process on behalf of the BiB. Tourists can call their Embassy for legal assistance.

Basically, perform a role similar to the TPV at the Immigration Office, but on the street - just helping with directions, giving local knowledge, helping with some basic translation with locals etc.

I think you will find this would make the organisation more approachable, and therefore more accepted by the public.

Small correction, the volunteers at the Immigration Office are NOT TPV.

They are PIV. ( Phuket Immigration Volunteers )

I never knew that. Of course, I have never bothered to read the fine print on their uniforms. I'm always learning something new here. Thanks.

Immigration Volunteers are great. They should be paid.

they should get proper visa for doing that work!

[NamKangMan]

Small correction, the volunteers at the Immigration Office are NOT TPV.

They are PIV. ( Phuket Immigration Volunteers )

Thanks for that detail, but your comment simply reinforces one of my complaints about the present system.

TPV, PIV, ABC, XYZ.... whatever. It is a mismash of different groups with different uniforms, different rules, different bosses. IMHO, there should be one single group, one single 'brand', one single uniform, one common set of rules and aims, one single managing team that is outside the control and influence of the local police or government authorities.

I'm not criticising the indiviudual work/efforts of those volunteers in the immigration office. I'm criticisng the 'grand plan'...

... because there isn't one.

Also, a rotation of duties for these volunteers would not only multi-skill them, but reduce the risk of corruption as well.

[HeavyDrinker]

they do deal with other farang related stuff

Such as? From what I can tell, most 'Farang" who have been here any time at all would have equal, if not better tools to sort their own 'related stuff' out...minus a silly belt and a tight black uniform....

[LivinginKata]

9 posts removed - nothing to do with Phuket, nothing to do with the topic, or just trolling.

[MB1]

they do deal with other farang related stuff

Such as? From what I can tell, most 'Farang" who have been here any time at all would have equal, if not better tools to sort their own 'related stuff' out...minus a silly belt and a tight black uniform....

Get rid of the lot of them and start again, no uniforms that look like police uniforms, no weapons, no handcuffs, no batons, just volunteers who want to help tourists, set up volunteer tourist help centres in key places of tourism..But don't dress them up as plastic coppers...

Let the Thai police do the job they are paid to do, deal with all of the problems that occur in tourist areas...It is their job is it not...?...

If there is a problem with a language barrier and problems persist, then let the Thai police arrest them and place in a cell until a translator can be found to assist the Thai police...

[Kudel]

If a volunteer is allowed to carry ''weapons'' he should have a security check with the law of their country regarding if he has a record. Easy really if the real BiB want to bolster their numbers with unpaid staff.

As for dodgy TPV, well, folk can become dodgy at any time, even a clean bloke. I am sure there are dodgy real BiB out there.

Whats the point of having such a check done ?In most european countrys for most offenses one gets a clean slate after a few years and we all know whos running the tpv in pattaya.

[eezergood]

If a volunteer is allowed to carry ''weapons'' he should have a security check with the law of their country regarding if he has a record. Easy really if the real BiB want to bolster their numbers with unpaid staff.

As for dodgy TPV, well, folk can become dodgy at any time, even a clean bloke. I am sure there are dodgy real BiB out there.

Whats the point of having such a check done ?In most european countrys for most offenses one gets a clean slate after a few years and we all know whos running the tpv in pattaya.

who?