Gated housing estates/communities 'moobahn'

[marios]

I wonder what is the status of the gated communities. Can one buy a unit under the same rules as if buying a condo?

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

cheers

Mario

PS

I am sure this issue has been tackled before. Please bear with me, thank you

[PattayaPhom]

Samran in Petchburi is the only one I am aware of...maybe others.

[guzzi850m2]

I am not sure what OP mean? If you think you can own land here? better rethink, you can't.

I "own" a nice house in a Moo Baan with my wife in the Pattaya area, a house in a Moo Baan is the only option for us, who on earth wants to live in a Condo if you got a kid?

[MMarlow]

Samran in Petchburi is the only one I am aware of...maybe others.

Foreigners can buy the house and land there, is that what you are trying to say?

[keeniau96]

Thai law is simple and strict in at least one item: foreigners cannot own land in Thailand. Your Thai wife can own the land and you can have an usufruct giving you full use of the property. You can even own the house built on the land and register such ownership at the land office, but you cannot own the land. Some condominiums may have a foreign allocation which is a possible gray area, but the foreigners cannot exceed 50% of the condo owners.

[PattayaPhom]

Samran in Petchburi is the only one I am aware of...maybe others.

Foreigners can buy the house and land there, is that what you are trying to say?

Dont think can post the link, just Google Talay Samran condo ownership.

[marios]

I am not sure what OP mean? If you think you can own land here? better rethink, you can't.

I "own" a nice house in a Moo Baan with my wife in the Pattaya area, a house in a Moo Baan is the only option for us, who on earth wants to live in a Condo if you got a kid?

Can you please explain what do you mean by 'own'. Is your ownership governed by the same laws as that relating to condo ownership? I understand that you do not own any particular piece of land. The surrounding grounds and facilities are common property for which you have to pay a monthly maintenance fee just like a condo. Is that so?

Thank you and I thank all who responded to my query

[guzzi850m2]

I am not sure what OP mean? If you think you can own land here? better rethink, you can't.

I "own" a nice house in a Moo Baan with my wife in the Pattaya area, a house in a Moo Baan is the only option for us, who on earth wants to live in a Condo if you got a kid?

Can you please explain what do you mean by 'own'. Is your ownership governed by the same laws as that relating to condo ownership? I understand that you do not own any particular piece of land. The surrounding grounds and facilities are common property for which you have to pay a monthly maintenance fee just like a condo. Is that so?

Thank you and I thank all who responded to my query

Read post No 5, that is what I mean by "own".

[impulse]

I am not sure what OP mean? If you think you can own land here? better rethink, you can't.

I "own" a nice house in a Moo Baan with my wife in the Pattaya area, a house in a Moo Baan is the only option for us, who on earth wants to live in a Condo if you got a kid?

Can you please explain what do you mean by 'own'. Is your ownership governed by the same laws as that relating to condo ownership? I understand that you do not own any particular piece of land. The surrounding grounds and facilities are common property for which you have to pay a monthly maintenance fee just like a condo. Is that so?

Thank you and I thank all who responded to my query

This is an interesting topic for me if, in fact, the land is owned by some legal entity and I'd just be buying the rights to use the land (build a house on it), similar to the way the walls, ceilings, floors and common areas of a condo are owned by an entity, and the "owners" purchase the right to use the space between the walls, the floor and the ceiling,along with the right to use the common areas.

Then there could be rules about 51% Thai ownership, whether it can be passed on as a heredidament, etc.. Thanks for the topic, because I didn't realize there were entities of this nature in Thailand.

Edited December 21, 2013 by impulse

[tingtongteesood]

Thai law is simple and strict in at least one item: foreigners cannot own land in Thailand. Your Thai wife can own the land and you can have an usufruct giving you full use of the property. You can even own the house built on the land and register such ownership at the land office, but you cannot own the land. Some condominiums may have a foreign allocation which is a possible gray area, but the foreigners cannot exceed 50% of the condo owners.

This could go some way to explaining why a great many condo buildings seem to be at least 50% empty.....?

[DrTuner]

There are separate laws for condo ownership and freehold titles. Basically foreigner may not reach the majority to control the land is the gist of it.

Answer: no. Now count the seconds until the company, BOI, usurufuct, lease et al. brigades start.

[MMarlow]

Samran in Petchburi is the only one I am aware of...maybe others.

That's beach villa rental.

[MMarlow]

Some condominiums may have a foreign allocation which is a possible gray area, but the foreigners cannot exceed 50% of the condo owners.

It's 49% and it's not a grey area.

[impulse]

There are separate laws for condo ownership and freehold titles. Basically foreigner may not reach the majority to control the land is the gist of it.

Answer: no. Now count the seconds until the company, BOI, usurufuct, lease et al. brigades start.

I don't doubt that there are separate laws for condos and freehold titles.

But my question is, what constitutes a condo? And I think that's the question being asked by the OP as well. If not, I apologize to the OP for my presumption.

Do all the units have to be in a single structure, or can they be discreet structures on a common patch of ground which is owned by the condo association? In that case, each owner would own their building, but none would individually own the land their building is on.

For example, could they be a line of attached units similar to a Brownstone, or can they be a bunch of bungalows scattered across a single patch of land, owned by the (by law- 51% or more Thai controlled) "condo" association?

Or is the ubiquitous multi-floor apartment style the only legally acceptable definition of a condo?

Edited December 21, 2013 by impulse

[PattayaPhom]

Samran in Petchburi is the only one I am aware of...maybe others.

That's beach villa rental.

Maybe search properly rather than just the first few links. Talay Samran offer villa ownership this way

[mikekim1219]

How does the one go about getting a "usufruct"? Is this life time or 30 years?

[BlueSkyCowboy]

Thai law is simple and strict in at least one item: foreigners cannot own land in Thailand. Your Thai wife can own the land and you can have an usufruct giving you full use of the property. You can even own the house built on the land and register such ownership at the land office, but you cannot own the land. Some condominiums may have a foreign allocation which is a possible gray area, but the foreigners cannot exceed 50% of the condo owners.

I hear that you can buy land and gift it to the temple and use until the final departure

[Crossy]

I'm going to move this to the 'regular' real-estate forum for more response.

I have heard of 'horizontal' condominiums which come under the condominium act but look like a moo bahn, no experience of same mind.

[DrTuner]

The condo act: http://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/new-thailand-condominium-act-2008.html

Didn't find any limitations on the form of the housings with one small glance, perhaps "condo" is defined by the officials granting building permits.

[Naam]

Thai law is simple and strict in at least one item: foreigners cannot own land in Thailand. Your Thai wife can own the land and you can have an usufruct giving you full use of the property. You can even own the house built on the land and register such ownership at the land office, but you cannot own the land. Some condominiums may have a foreign allocation which is a possible gray area, but the foreigners cannot exceed 50% of the condo owners.

there is no such thing like gray area as far as condominiums are concerned of which 49% are "foreign allocated."

[Naam]

How does the one go about getting a "usufruct"? Is this life time or 30 years?

usufruct = life.

[marios]

There are separate laws for condo ownership and freehold titles. Basically foreigner may not reach the majority to control the land is the gist of it.

Answer: no. Now count the seconds until the company, BOI, usurufuct, lease et al. brigades start.

I don't doubt that there are separate laws for condos and freehold titles.

But my question is, what constitutes a condo? And I think that's the question being asked by the OP as well. If not, I apologize to the OP for my presumption.

Do all the units have to be in a single structure, or can they be discreet structures on a common patch of ground which is owned by the condo association? In that case, each owner would own their building, but none would individually own the land their building is on.

For example, could they be a line of attached units similar to a Brownstone, or can they be a bunch of bungalows scattered across a single patch of land, owned by the (by law- 51% or more Thai controlled) "condo" association?

Or is the ubiquitous multi-floor apartment style the only legally acceptable definition of a condo?

[marios]

There are separate laws for condo ownership and freehold titles. Basically foreigner may not reach the majority to control the land is the gist of it.

Answer: no. Now count the seconds until the company, BOI, usurufuct, lease et al. brigades start.

I don't doubt that there are separate laws for condos and freehold titles.

But my question is, what constitutes a condo? And I think that's the question being asked by the OP as well. If not, I apologize to the OP for my presumption.

Do all the units have to be in a single structure, or can they be discreet structures on a common patch of ground which is owned by the condo association? In that case, each owner would own their building, but none would individually own the land their building is on.

For example, could they be a line of attached units similar to a Brownstone, or can they be a bunch of bungalows scattered across a single patch of land, owned by the (by law- 51% or more Thai controlled) "condo" association?

Or is the ubiquitous multi-floor apartment style the only legally acceptable definition of a condo?

This exactly my question. Does a condo need to be apartments clustered together in a single building or it can be individual units on the ground without ownership of the land. (You cannot tear it down or alter it, for example)

[Delight]

The condominium Act refers to 'apartments' .

If you can persuade the land office that individual houses are not houses but apartments-then maybe a the Condo Act will apply.

Suspect that you have to do a lot of persuading..

[asiamaster]

Thai law is simple and strict in at least one item: foreigners cannot own land in Thailand. Your Thai wife can own the land and you can have an usufruct giving you full use of the property. You can even own the house built on the land and register such ownership at the land office, but you cannot own the land. Some condominiums may have a foreign allocation which is a possible gray area, but the foreigners cannot exceed 50% of the condo owners.

This could go some way to explaining why a great many condo buildings seem to be at least 50% empty.....?

And why the price / square meter has doubled since they no longer allowed 100% farang ownership in certain areas.

[aliep]

I am a property developer and have some experience in this.

Condominiums can be horizontal, but the walls "must" touch to be defined as a condominium and for the condominium act to apply.

It is possible for the developer to buy a large plot of land in a Thai Company and sell shares/directorships in that company to foreigners, up to the 49% level.

Everyone (the foreigners included) can have exclusive use to their portion of land and build a house (or buy a ready built house on it), it can be legally enforced by usufruct or 30 year lease, but since all the shared owners run the development, it's probably unnecessary.

The initial Chanote is never split and remains in the company. The drawback for Thai owners is they can't get a mortgage. This is an excellent solution for golf course or luxury developments where everyone wants the common parts to be maintained properly.

[Crossy]

Yea aliep, that's the model a mate used for his place in Pattaya, seems like a smart idea.

Of course in this instance you don't have the protection of the condominium act as it's not a condo.

[DoctorG]

I am a property developer and have some experience in this.

Condominiums can be horizontal, but the walls "must" touch to be defined as a condominium and for the condominium act to apply.

It is possible for the developer to buy a large plot of land in a Thai Company and sell shares/directorships in that company to foreigners, up to the 49% level.

Everyone (the foreigners included) can have exclusive use to their portion of land and build a house (or buy a ready built house on it), it can be legally enforced by usufruct or 30 year lease, but since all the shared owners run the development, it's probably unnecessary.

The initial Chanote is never split and remains in the company. The drawback for Thai owners is they can't get a mortgage. This is an excellent solution for golf course or luxury developments where everyone wants the common parts to be maintained properly.

Yes, I was thinking this too (but without your expertise to back it up).

How many walls "must touch"? If it is only one then you could build a series of duplexes (duplii?)

Even if it were 2 walls this could easily be done by building around a central courtyard (quadrangle).

An interesting topic.

[SDM0712]

Thai law is simple and strict in at least one item: foreigners cannot .............You can even own the house built on the land and register such ownership at the land office, but you cannot own the land. Some condominiums may have a foreign allocation which is a possible gray area, but the foreigners cannot exceed 50% of the condo owners.

In fact, as a non-Thai, if you are willing to invest 40 MB in Thai government bonds you may own (in the western accepted definition of the word) up to one rai of land. I know few will do this, but it is the only exception that I am aware of.

Also, if a condominium is registered under the Condominium Act then 49% may be sold as what under what are commonly termed a " Foreign Freehold" and this is Law, it is not a grey area. It is registered in the Non-Thai name and can be dealt with as we deal with freeholds abroad. The remainder are normally sold for less money on a leasehold schedule that normally totals 90 years, now that is a grey area.

SDM

[rgs2001uk]

Thai law is simple and strict in at least one item: foreigners cannot .............You can even own the house built on the land and register such ownership at the land office, but you cannot own the land. Some condominiums may have a foreign allocation which is a possible gray area, but the foreigners cannot exceed 50% of the condo owners.

In fact, as a non-Thai, if you are willing to invest 40 MB in Thai government bonds you may own (in the western accepted definition of the word) up to one rai of land. I know few will do this, but it is the only exception that I am aware of.

Also, if a condominium is registered under the Condominium Act then 49% may be sold as what under what are commonly termed a " Foreign Freehold" and this is Law, it is not a grey area. It is registered in the Non-Thai name and can be dealt with as we deal with freeholds abroad. The remainder are normally sold for less money on a leasehold schedule that normally totals 90 years, now that is a grey area.

SDM

Every few years this comes up,

In fact, as a non-Thai, if you are willing to invest 40 MB in Thai government bonds you may own (in the western accepted definition of the word) up to one rai of land. I know few will do this, but it is the only exception that I am aware of.

What is not mentioned, it has to be signed off by a gov't minister.

In all the years I have been here and reading TV no one has ever known anyone or knows of anyone who has been able to take advantage of this.

May be a good time to ask the question again, does anyone know of anyone who has been able to buy land this way?