Anti-govt protesters rally across Thai capital

[blaze]

Well I do have an IQ of 135 so I think I can safely say I wasn't in the free booze queue. That puts me well in the top 1% not that it counts for that much really, however it does say that I am within the category typical of doctorates with the ability to understand complex theories.

This from nibbles-

Wow-- a NUTOCRACY in the making.\\

At this point I would prefer to hand my faith to the two old ladies I saw on Silom giggling and blowing whistles at each other as if this was nap time at the kindergarten.

At least they didn't impress me as being crazy.

Edited December 22, 2013 by blaze

[soi41]

It's interesting (if unsurprising & ultimately depressing) to discover that this set of posts is a microcosm of the polarization accelerating within Thailand. In the pursuit of true reconciliation, if that is possible, and in order to discover which if any posters are willing or able to suspend their rabid and pointless tit-for-tat posts, I wonder if we can all agree to the following:

1. Bangkok is economically vital to Thailand's future but its population does not constitute an electoral majority.

2. The current round of protests are large but smaller than previous turnouts.

3. Reform is preferable within a democratic framework.

4. A coup (military or civilian) will create more problems than it solves.

5. Thaksin was corrupt in office. (BKK land purchases etc.)

6. Suthep was corrupt in office (Phuket land sell-offs, palm oil 'deals')

7. An anti-corruption movement is not ideally led by a corrupt politician.

8. The attempt by Yingluck to pass an amnesty bill was crude, blatant and an insult to those that died in 2010.

9. True reform of the political system to make it less viable to influence by big money is absolutely necessary.

10. No family should inherit influence in a true democracy.

11. Pre-Thaksin political parties largely ignored the plight of the poor in favor of policies that benefitted their Bangkok supporters.

12. Thaksin upset the status quo by garnering support from the above.

13. All political parties, to a greater or lesser extent, attempt to buy votes.

14. Most of the electorate vote for the party that promise to raise their living standards, as compared to this benefit election bribes are tiny.

15. Most Thai politicians/protest leaders of all colours are egotists/power hungry.

16. The above runs counter to the central tenets of Buddhism.

17. The country will be worse off if each side continues to reject the position of the other.

18. To move forward, justice needs to prevail for ALL who have committed crimes.

19. To move forward, ALL parties need to cater to the needs of ALL Thais not only their supporters/constituents

20. Without sincere compromise from all sides, Thailand is heading for civil war.

I wonder how many you can consider & agree to. You will, of course, need to set aside your passions for a while. If you're a true Buddhist, that should be easy.

Excellent first post!! Welcome to the forum!

What a relief to know (after reading the rhetoric here on this thread) that there are some smart and caring people out there!

Keep posting!

[Nibbles48]

It's interesting (if unsurprising & ultimately depressing) to discover that this set of posts is a microcosm of the polarization accelerating within Thailand. In the pursuit of true reconciliation, if that is possible, and in order to discover which if any posters are willing or able to suspend their rabid and pointless tit-for-tat posts, I wonder if we can all agree to the following:

1. Bangkok is economically vital to Thailand's future but its population does not constitute an electoral majority.

2. The current round of protests are large but smaller than previous turnouts.

3. Reform is preferable within a democratic framework.

4. A coup (military or civilian) will create more problems than it solves.

5. Thaksin was corrupt in office. (BKK land purchases etc.)

6. Suthep was corrupt in office (Phuket land sell-offs, palm oil 'deals')

7. An anti-corruption movement is not ideally led by a corrupt politician.

8. The attempt by Yingluck to pass an amnesty bill was crude, blatant and an insult to those that died in 2010.

9. True reform of the political system to make it less viable to influence by big money is absolutely necessary.

10. No family should inherit influence in a true democracy.

11. Pre-Thaksin political parties largely ignored the plight of the poor in favor of policies that benefitted their Bangkok supporters.

12. Thaksin upset the status quo by garnering support from the above.

13. All political parties, to a greater or lesser extent, attempt to buy votes.

14. Most of the electorate vote for the party that promise to raise their living standards, as compared to this benefit election bribes are tiny.

15. Most Thai politicians/protest leaders of all colours are egotists/power hungry.

16. The above runs counter to the central tenets of Buddhism.

17. The country will be worse off if each side continues to reject the position of the other.

18. To move forward, justice needs to prevail for ALL who have committed crimes.

19. To move forward, ALL parties need to cater to the needs of ALL Thais not only their supporters/constituents

20. Without sincere compromise from all sides, Thailand is heading for civil war.

I wonder how many you can consider & agree to. You will, of course, need to set aside your passions for a while. If you're a true Buddhist, that should be easy.

Thank you.

That was nourishing reading.

I largely agree with it, and I think most intelligent people would.

However, there is a force at work everywhere in the world that is driven by human nature and that can not be resisted, which has been proven for millenia, and despite all the horror stories of the past will always be the crux of why there will always be division in all societies no matter how much man attempts to resist it.

That force is 'tribalism'.

It is the main reason humans are incapable of learning from the mistakes of history.

[tilac2]

This was a mega flop. Lumpini Park is deserted, no one left at Asoke, very thin and dispirited protest marching down Sukhivit...2 abreast. People have voted with their feet on Khun Suthep by staying away in droves

Sorry but that doesn't mesh with what I saw today and last night. There was a constant stream of people going across PinKlao bridge from yesterday afternoon and all today. Cars, minibuses and big buses parked everywhere. The whole bridge a mass of people by this afternoon + ferries packed too.

By the way, I'm not on the side of Suthep so am not biased. I happen to think that the previous election result gave Yingluk and co a mandate - but it seems that many many Thais disagree, and this is their country.

[zydeco]

It's interesting (if unsurprising & ultimately depressing) to discover that this set of posts is a microcosm of the polarization accelerating within Thailand. In the pursuit of true reconciliation, if that is possible, and in order to discover which if any posters are willing or able to suspend their rabid and pointless tit-for-tat posts, I wonder if we can all agree to the following:

1. Bangkok is economically vital to Thailand's future but its population does not constitute an electoral majority.

2. The current round of protests are large but smaller than previous turnouts.

3. Reform is preferable within a democratic framework.

4. A coup (military or civilian) will create more problems than it solves.

5. Thaksin was corrupt in office. (BKK land purchases etc.)

6. Suthep was corrupt in office (Phuket land sell-offs, palm oil 'deals')

7. An anti-corruption movement is not ideally led by a corrupt politician.

8. The attempt by Yingluck to pass an amnesty bill was crude, blatant and an insult to those that died in 2010.

9. True reform of the political system to make it less viable to influence by big money is absolutely necessary.

10. No family should inherit influence in a true democracy.

11. Pre-Thaksin political parties largely ignored the plight of the poor in favor of policies that benefitted their Bangkok supporters.

12. Thaksin upset the status quo by garnering support from the above.

13. All political parties, to a greater or lesser extent, attempt to buy votes.

14. Most of the electorate vote for the party that promise to raise their living standards, as compared to this benefit election bribes are tiny.

15. Most Thai politicians/protest leaders of all colours are egotists/power hungry.

16. The above runs counter to the central tenets of Buddhism.

17. The country will be worse off if each side continues to reject the position of the other.

18. To move forward, justice needs to prevail for ALL who have committed crimes.

19. To move forward, ALL parties need to cater to the needs of ALL Thais not only their supporters/constituents

20. Without sincere compromise from all sides, Thailand is heading for civil war.

I wonder how many you can consider & agree to. You will, of course, need to set aside your passions for a while. If you're a true Buddhist, that should be easy.

As for #20, I don't think there is a chance in hades of a civil war. Most Thais now have too much to lose, and that includes most of the folks in Issan. If Thaksin does want a war, he might be a victim of his own policies. People in Issan have work, and thanks to the government, they have mobile phones, satellite TV, scooters, and plenty of access to whisky. Like most people in the world, they'll come home after a hard day's work, turn on the TV to watch a soap opera or a soccer game and be happy. Or at least not upset enough to take to the jungle (what little of it is left in Thailand) and die for the Shins.

[otherstuff1957]

Here are a few pics from Asoke & Sukhumvit at about 2pm:

[blaze]

replying to Zydeco (find the article 'boom times in the North East).

In the last few years the GDP of Issan has risen 40 or more percent while Bangkok remains in the mid 20s.

Khon Kaen is boom city-- Udon on its heels. Rightly or wrongly this will be understood of the policies that Thaksin put in place.

Of course they wont' die for Thaksin- but they will die to maintain their right to steer the ship of state- .

Do you think they don't know what all this talk of 'people's council for reform' means?

It means to deprive them of their right to participate in the decisions that affect their lives.

people have fought and died for much less.

Edited December 22, 2013 by blaze

[Prbkk]

This was a mega flop. Lumpini Park is deserted, no one left at Asoke, very thin and dispirited protest marching down Sukhivit...2 abreast. People have voted with their feet on Khun Suthep by staying away in droves

Sorry but that doesn't mesh with what I saw today and last night. There was a constant stream of people going across PinKlao bridge from yesterday afternoon and all today. Cars, minibuses and big buses parked everywhere. The whole bridge a mass of people by this afternoon + ferries packed too.

By the way, I'm not on the side of Suthep so am not biased. I happen to think that the previous election result gave Yingluk and co a mandate - but it seems that many many Thais disagree, and this is their country.

I don't disagree that many Thais don't like the current govt. That is a given. However, I expected today to be some kind of final show of force ( perhaps reflecting the incessant assurances from. Suthep that things would be clarified and life would go on). That show of force simply did not happen. I was very surprised at how vey easy it was to move around town today. " we will paralyse the city"....didn't happen. The numbers were low , much lower than projections, way lower than claims.

It doesn't matter if it was 50,000 or 80,000....but he need hundreds of thousands today and they didn't show up. These kind of movements rarely succeed in the context of declining public support ( cf Marcos).

I was genuinely surprised at the low crowds.

Something's got to give here and I can't see that being the PM

[skills32]

Nibbles you might be a nice bloke but when they handed out brains I'm sure you joined the free booze queue.

Whether that was by choice or an accident I am not sure.

Well I do have an IQ of 135 so I think I can safely say I wasn't in the free booze queue. That puts me well in the top 1% not that it counts for that much really, however it does say that I am within the category typical of doctorates with the ability to understand complex theories.

Of course you are not going to deny WW1 or what triggered it?

If people are capable of shooting at the likes of The Pope, John Lennon, Bob Marley and Gandhi, relatively men of peace and not exactly to be confused with hate figures. Then compare it with someone who is clearly hated by millions. So what exactly would you consider 'brainless'??

Sorry Nibbles I am guilty of imbibing in what I accused you lining up for.

Reading through the thread I was pissed off by the various posters that proffered up one sided arguments to support their their favourite combatant.

None of these people have a clue as to what is happening here. unless of course they are Thai, and it irks me to read opinions offered up by by people who are unqualified to make them.

What actually happened is that I replied to the wrong person by mistake.

[blaze]

Of course most Westerners, thing that Democracy is the be all and end all, I will leave you with your illusions, but personally, I prefer a benevolent dictator or a benevolent monarchy.

Replying to Kurtgruen.

We3 ALL want Santa or mommy to come. Some of us rememvber the benevolent dictators of the past- that filled the Nurenburg stadium with weeping fans - that regarded Franco as God's own emissary--

Yes Kurt- I too hope that Santa will come down the Thai chimney on Christmas day and bequeath his unifying love on the nation.

But history has shown too well thet beneath every Santa caped hood- is pair of horns.

Edited December 22, 2013 by blaze

[Nibbles48]

Well I do have an IQ of 135 so I think I can safely say I wasn't in the free booze queue. That puts me well in the top 1% not that it counts for that much really, however it does say that I am within the category typical of doctorates with the ability to understand complex theories.

Of course you are not going to deny WW1 or what triggered it?

If people are capable of shooting at the likes of The Pope, John Lennon, Bob Marley and Gandhi, relatively men of peace and not exactly to be confused with hate figures. Then compare it with someone who is clearly hated by millions. So what exactly would you consider 'brainless'??

Sorry Nibbles I am guilty of imbibing in what I accused you lining up for.

Reading through the thread I was pissed off by the various posters that proffered up one sided arguments to support their their favourite combatant.

None of these people have a clue as to what is happening here. unless of course they are Thai, and it irks me to read opinions offered up by by people who are unqualified to make them.

What actually happened is that I replied to the wrong person by mistake.

Hehehe.

No problem mate.

I am guilty of the very same as you, in that I react too easily to the same one sided posts from obviously unqualified posters too.

[SaamBaht]

Reading through the international press those that quote numbers put the crowds in the "tens of thousands," not hundreds of thousands or millions.

[MAJIC]

I wonder what the Thais really think of foreigners getting involved in their politics and joining rallies. I can guess but it probably isn't very pleasant!

I think the anti-govt speakers are actually quite acceptance of foreigners involved. Few of them take the extra effort to explain and deliver some important key points in english speaking to let the foreigners have a better understanding about the actual situation, their goal and also to clear misunderstanding of their motive of taking down the current govt. This shows that they appreciate our concerns and supports. So is it consider pleasant?

I think so .

like the journalist who was beaten? after Suthep's thugs told the mob to do so from the stage? you should be ashamed posting such garbage

And where is your evidence???

[MAJIC]

I wonder what the Thais really think of foreigners getting involved in their politics and joining rallies. I can guess but it probably isn't very pleasant!

I think the anti-govt speakers are actually quite acceptance of foreigners involved. Few of them take the extra effort to explain and deliver some important key points in english speaking to let the foreigners have a better understanding about the actual situation, their goal and also to clear misunderstanding of their motive of taking down the current govt. This shows that they appreciate our concerns and supports. So is it consider pleasant?

I think so .

like the journalist who was beaten? after Suthep's thugs told the mob to do so from the stage? you should be ashamed posting such garbage

Evidence????

[Nibbles48]

Reading through the international press those that quote numbers put the crowds in the "tens of thousands," not hundreds of thousands or millions.

Thank you for that.

But I think just about everyone on Thaivisa already knows that the international press have always deliberately quoted the numbers down.

I really wish I knew why. It is not like they would benefit from it, but many here who have attended say much much more.

If the Thai police say 135,000 and we all know they definitely quote well below the actual numbers then I think we can say that the figures are pretty high and judging by the pictures at single rally sites and extrapolate that across the 16 sites, we could well be looking at 1 million. But we will never know for sure.

BTW... Can you give me a link to these international press reports?

[scorecard]

This was a mega flop. Lumpini Park is deserted, no one left at Asoke, very thin and dispirited protest marching down Sukhivit...2 abreast. People have voted with their feet on Khun Suthep by staying away in droves

Sorry but that doesn't mesh with what I saw today and last night. There was a constant stream of people going across PinKlao bridge from yesterday afternoon and all today. Cars, minibuses and big buses parked everywhere. The whole bridge a mass of people by this afternoon + ferries packed too.

By the way, I'm not on the side of Suthep so am not biased. I happen to think that the previous election result gave Yingluk and co a mandate - but it seems that many many Thais disagree, and this is their country.

I don't disagree that many Thais don't like the current govt. That is a given. However, I expected today to be some kind of final show of force ( perhaps reflecting the incessant assurances from. Suthep that things would be clarified and life would go on). That show of force simply did not happen. I was very surprised at how vey easy it was to move around town today. " we will paralyse the city"....didn't happen. The numbers were low , much lower than projections, way lower than claims.

It doesn't matter if it was 50,000 or 80,000....but he need hundreds of thousands today and they didn't show up. These kind of movements rarely succeed in the context of declining public support ( cf Marcos).

I was genuinely surprised at the low crowds.

Something's got to give here and I can't see that being the PM

"I was genuinely surprised at the low crowds."

You've written comments about low numbers' more times today than can be counted, and been rebuffed every time and with numerous photos of quite large crowds at numerous venues at a given time.

Your becoming boring.

[blaze]

Why will nobody supporting the protesters come out of the closet and say in frim clear voice that Mussolini and Codreanu and Franco were good men, misunderstood?

Hell- we could get the trains to run on time- glavanize the population for an invasion of-- ok, not Ethiopia but maybe a Cambodian island or two ((Poland can wait)

We can build super fast highways, inspire the population to work long hours in the armament factories- and make the Brave New World a reality.

Singing folk songs and hammering iron-- and we will be as one- united in our refashioning of the modern- our harnessing of hate-

And that we can know that our every move is blessed by Il Duce- the Benevolent One.

And why stop at Thailand? WE all know this is just finger painting for the big picture that we wish our native countries will be part of.

If we can do it here we can do it in the US, UK, Germany--- forget the 30s- that's for old fuddy duddies.

But for christ's sake- have the balls to admit this is the dream.

Edited December 22, 2013 by blaze

[rreddin]

It's interesting (if unsurprising & ultimately depressing) to discover that this set of posts is a microcosm of the polarization accelerating within Thailand. In the pursuit of true reconciliation, if that is possible, and in order to discover which if any posters are willing or able to suspend their rabid and pointless tit-for-tat posts, I wonder if we can all agree to the following:

1. Bangkok is economically vital to Thailand's future but its population does not constitute an electoral majority.

2. The current round of protests are large but smaller than previous turnouts.

3. Reform is preferable within a democratic framework.

4. A coup (military or civilian) will create more problems than it solves.

5. Thaksin was corrupt in office. (BKK land purchases etc.)

6. Suthep was corrupt in office (Phuket land sell-offs, palm oil 'deals')

7. An anti-corruption movement is not ideally led by a corrupt politician.

8. The attempt by Yingluck to pass an amnesty bill was crude, blatant and an insult to those that died in 2010.

9. True reform of the political system to make it less viable to influence by big money is absolutely necessary.

10. No family should inherit influence in a true democracy.

11. Pre-Thaksin political parties largely ignored the plight of the poor in favor of policies that benefitted their Bangkok supporters.

12. Thaksin upset the status quo by garnering support from the above.

13. All political parties, to a greater or lesser extent, attempt to buy votes.

14. Most of the electorate vote for the party that promise to raise their living standards, as compared to this benefit election bribes are tiny.

15. Most Thai politicians/protest leaders of all colours are egotists/power hungry.

16. The above runs counter to the central tenets of Buddhism.

17. The country will be worse off if each side continues to reject the position of the other.

18. To move forward, justice needs to prevail for ALL who have committed crimes.

19. To move forward, ALL parties need to cater to the needs of ALL Thais not only their supporters/constituents

20. Without sincere compromise from all sides, Thailand is heading for civil war.

I wonder how many you can consider & agree to. You will, of course, need to set aside your passions for a while. If you're a true Buddhist, that should be easy.

I cannot fault anything you say except the last six words of point 20. No Thai I have spoken to, that includes all political shades, wants a civil war. A different form of democratically elected government under a constitutional monarchy may eventually emerge from the current stand-off.

One thing, however, is crystal clear. These protests will not end corruption. It is endemic and has been so for decades if not a century or more. It is in every walk in life including schools, civil servants, government, banks, the legal system, police and just about every type of business. Most Thais accept corruption as a part of their normal life provided they gain by it. Somethings we might view as corrupt are not viewed that way by Thais who consider it a gift for performing a service or duty. It will take generations to change that.

[Asiantravel]

I think the anti-govt speakers are actually quite acceptance of foreigners involved. Few of them take the extra effort to explain and deliver some important key points in english speaking to let the foreigners have a better understanding about the actual situation, their goal and also to clear misunderstanding of their motive of taking down the current govt. This shows that they appreciate our concerns and supports. So is it consider pleasant?

I think so .

like the journalist who was beaten? after Suthep's thugs told the mob to do so from the stage? you should be ashamed posting such garbage

Evidence????

German photojournalist attacked

initial reports say a speaker from the stage singled him out, triggering the assault. The incident was also featured on Blue Sky TV, and Internet comments continued to target the journalist.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/684257-german-photojournalist-attacked/

Edited December 22, 2013 by Asiantravel

[Issangeorge]

A general guide is that one person needs 2 square feet. Looking at the picture of the Taksin Bridge it looked like all of one side of the bridge was full of protesters. I'm guessing that the one side was about 33' wide and the bridge is about 5,875' long, so that is 198,875 square feet so that would be about 96,000 people, and that was in just one area of Bangkok, so a few more than ten thousand.

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MAJIC]

Well there you have it... That is how much the protestors hate farangs

RT@veen_NT: Suthep brought a newly-wed couple on stage and wished them on stage. 7.35pm Suthep leaves the stage.

RT@veen_NT: Finish- Thai couple wished by people "@MrNaling: 19.35น.'สุเทพ'อวยพร 'คู่มั่น'บ่าว-สาว' กลางเวทีราชดำเนิน #nationtv pic.twitter.com/ZbX35qqGpV”

Next please!

And this is the problem with the Propagandists,they are always short on facts and truth,it's an old trick,lying, scaremongering,playing on peoples fears,it's been used even in World Wars! if it carries on like this,they may soon be sending over the Aircraft loaded with propaganda leaflets!

[zydeco]

Why will nobody supporting the protesters come out of the closet and say in frim clear voice that Mussolini and Codreanu and Franco were good men, misunderstood?

Hell- we could get the trains to run on time- glavanize the population for an invasion of-- ok, not Ethiopia but maybe a Cambodian island or two ((Poland can wait)

We can build super fast highways, inspire the population to work long hours in the armament factories- and make the Brave New World a reality.

Singing folk songs and hammering iron-- and we will be as one- united in our refashioning of the modern- our harnessing of hate-

And that we can know that our every move is blessed by Il Duce- the Benevolent One.

And why stop at Thailand? WE all know this is just finger painting for the big picture that we wish our native countries will be part of.

If we can do it here we can do it in the US, UK, Germany--- forget the 30s- that's for old fuddy duddies.

But for christ's sake- have the balls to admit this is the dream.

To some degree, I already have. Mussolini did do good for Italy. Horthy was good for Hungary--certainly better than what followed. And the authoritarian government in Singapore does quite well, too. Meritocracy was a much larger part of the countries governed by these men than previous or subsequent governments in those countries. BTW, nothing wrong with nationalism either, unless you believe that nations are little more than geographic entities concerned with providing labor to multinational capital at ever decreasing rates of pay and benefits.

[Emptyset]

Well I do have an IQ of 135 so I think I can safely say I wasn't in the free booze queue. That puts me well in the top 1% not that it counts for that much really, however it does say that I am within the category typical of doctorates with the ability to understand complex theories.

Of course you are not going to deny WW1 or what triggered it?

If people are capable of shooting at the likes of The Pope, John Lennon, Bob Marley and Gandhi, relatively men of peace and not exactly to be confused with hate figures. Then compare it with someone who is clearly hated by millions. So what exactly would you consider 'brainless'??

Sorry Nibbles I am guilty of imbibing in what I accused you lining up for.

Reading through the thread I was pissed off by the various posters that proffered up one sided arguments to support their their favourite combatant.

None of these people have a clue as to what is happening here. unless of course they are Thai, and it irks me to read opinions offered up by by people who are unqualified to make them.

What actually happened is that I replied to the wrong person by mistake.

Why would you have to be Thai to have a clue? Let's say you're Thai and you do a PhD in English politics, which you spent years researching. Say you're in London at a barbershop and the 20 year old hairdresser - who has no particular expertize in English history or politics - decides to pick an argument in the exact subject which you specialize in. You disagree and the hairdresser says to you 'Well, you're not English, so it's obvious you don't know what's going on here, and furthermore foreigners should stay out of English business. They don't understand English culture'.

Wouldn't that strike you as absurd? That someone could be by default considered more knowledgable just because they were born into that culture? In reality, the Thai with the PhD might have a much better grasp of the political realities, not to mention basic facts, dates, names, history, etc than the hairdresser. And that's partly because outsiders with no stake in things can often see things more clearly. Foreigners also bring a comparative perspective, they can compare what they know about their own societies, which often helps shed light on things (though it can also be misleading).

Now, if you'd argued that Thais have more stake in the issue, more invested in the issue, then of course I'd have to agree. Although you could say those who live, have families and businesses in Thailand also have a stake in Thai politics. And if they do succeed in taking the vote away, you could no longer even argue that foreigners don't have the right to vote, so shouldn't get involved. lol.

I have no great stake in matters other than a wish for Thailand to succeed as a democratic country and a great interest in Thai culture and politics. And as whenever I get chance, I stick my nose, totally univited of course, into US politics and Middle Eastern issues (both of which I know far less about than Thai politics), I'm not going to shut up about Thai politics just because some Thais believe Thailand has unique culture that foreigners aren't capable of comprehending and that any foreigner who doesn't agree with them should 'get out' if they dare to pass comment on events.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Emptyset

[edwardandtubs]

A general guide is that one person needs 2 square feet. Looking at the picture of the Taksin Bridge it looked like all of one side of the bridge was full of protesters. I'm guessing that the one side was about 33' wide and the bridge is about 5,875' long, so that is 198,875 square feet so that would be about 96,000 people, and that was in just one area of Bangkok, so a few more than ten thousand. Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Totally delusional. The fact that one person needs 2 square feet doesn't mean they were in fact packed in with that intensity. If the numbers being bandied about were true there would be crowd surges and crushing.

[metisdead]

Off topic hyperbole posts and replies have been removed.

Insulting and inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.

[whybother]

A general guide is that one person needs 2 square feet. Looking at the picture of the Taksin Bridge it looked like all of one side of the bridge was full of protesters. I'm guessing that the one side was about 33' wide and the bridge is about 5,875' long, so that is 198,875 square feet so that would be about 96,000 people, and that was in just one area of Bangkok, so a few more than ten thousand. Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Totally delusional. The fact that one person needs 2 square feet doesn't mean they were in fact packed in with that intensity. If the numbers being bandied about were true there would be crowd surges and crushing.

There was a good article in the Bangkok Post title (something like) "59,000 or 1 million" which went into detail estimating the crowd a couple of weeks ago. I think that would apply to a stationary crowd rather than one that was moving though.

[Issangeorge]

This was a mega flop. Lumpini Park is deserted, no one left at Asoke, very thin and dispirited protest marching down Sukhivit...2 abreast. People have voted with their feet on Khun Suthep by staying away in droves

Sorry but that doesn't mesh with what I saw today and last night. There was a constant stream of people going across PinKlao bridge from yesterday afternoon and all today. Cars, minibuses and big buses parked everywhere. The whole bridge a mass of people by this afternoon + ferries packed too.

By the way, I'm not on the side of Suthep so am not biased. I happen to think that the previous election result gave Yingluk and co a mandate - but it seems that many many Thais disagree, and this is their country.

I don't disagree that many Thais don't like the current govt. That is a given. However, I expected today to be some kind of final show of force ( perhaps reflecting the incessant assurances from. Suthep that things would be clarified and life would go on). That show of force simply did not happen. I was very surprised at how vey easy it was to move around town today. " we will paralyse the city"....didn't happen. The numbers were low , much lower than projections, way lower than claims.

It doesn't matter if it was 50,000 or 80,000....but he need hundreds of thousands today and they didn't show up. These kind of movements rarely succeed in the context of declining public support ( cf Marcos).

I was genuinely surprised at the low crowds.

Something's got to give here and I can't see that being the PM

"I was genuinely surprised at the low crowds."

You've written comments about low numbers' more times today than can be counted, and been rebuffed every time and with numerous photos of quite large crowds at numerous venues at a given time.

Your becoming boring.

I was looking at pictures of Taksin Bridge and it looked like one side of the bridge was jammed packed with demonstrators. That one side is about 33' wide and the bridge is 5,875' long so 193,875 square feet. If you go by in a crowded space one person takes up 2 square feet, that means that on Taksin Bridge alone there were just under 97,000 people and that was in just one area of Bangkok. So it's probably safe to say there were at least 100,000 demonstrators, and maybe more than 200,000

Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[blaze]

I( see that my post correcting Zydeco re the front man for Hungarian fascism has been removed.

I think that given the PDRC vision, all discussion of fascism - it's merits and deficiancies should be allowed.

To his credit, Zydeco MIGHT be acknowleding that at least in his (as in mine) the PDRC is pursing a kind of neo-fascism.

And so a conversation, long overdue (since the PAD waved its flags with twisted swastikas) should be opened.

[pedro01]

Funny that.

I just been on BBC News Asia, if it is anywhere, it is there.

No mention of it.... just another pro government supporter lying. Strange how most of them lie on here and get found out.

The only thing on there is another wildly inaccurate report from Johnathon 'Dick' Head.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25483401

A few hilarious snippets.

'Tens of thousands of opposition-backed protesters have marched through the Thai capital' (try hundreds of thousands).

'The protesters massed at five main intersections,' ( I believe it was 15 plus YL's crib).

'Protests began nearly a month ago' (erm... try almost 2 months ago).

Seriously, does this guy even know what is going on here?

Jonathan Head is a VERY respected journalist and you are a pig ignorant poster

I presume you never met him.

I have been out with him a few times and he seemed to think it was quite amusing that sometimes he was too messed up from the night before to appear on camera and he could only speak over a still shot for a report.

The whole BBC crew in BKK are pretty much the bottom of the barrel of foreign journalism in Thailand.

[Emptyset]

I( see that my post correcting Zydeco re the front man for Hungarian fascism has been removed.

I think that given the PDRC vision, all discussion of fascism - it's merits and deficiancies should be allowed.

To his credit, Zydeco MIGHT be acknowleding that at least in his (as in mine) the PDRC is pursing a kind of neo-fascism.

And so a conversation, long overdue (since the PAD waved its flags with twisted swastikas) should be opened.

Apparently Thai PBS showed a conference speech earlier by Thai political scientist Kasien Tejapira which described in detail with historical comparisons why Suthep's proposals are fascist. There's a report of the conference in the BKK Post titled 'Pro-election scholars: Respect one-man-one-vote', but doesn't give details of what Kasien specifically said about fascism.