Is Thailand A Failed State?

[phetaroi]

There is no one definition of a failed state, but here is one good one: "A state perceived as having failed at some of the basic conditions and responsibilities of a sovereign government."

It would submit that Thailand is already in that situation, or close to it.

1. From what I have read from several sources, even though it calls itself a democracy, it has had more military coups than any other country. And, from what I can determine, more different constitutions than any other country...almost every time a new government takes office, a new constitution is proposed...or ignored. (And, just for the record, although usually I would abhor military coups, in Thailand's case I believe the coups have done more good than bad).

2. The country describes itself as a democracy, but it's just a word and few Thais seem to know what a democracy actually is. (Again, for the record, I don't feel that every democracy has to operate like the US or GB, but Thailand isn't even close).

3. The country is so mired down in corruption and graft that it will never be able to work its way out.

4. The country cannot uphold international treaties that it has signed on to (such as copyright infringement).

5. The military and the police appear to be on opposing sides.

6. It is difficult to see how

I'll be interested to see your thoughts on this premise.

[nottocus]

I'd say it's a failing state...as in on it's way to a failed state.

[Costas2008]

Evolution does not only apply to living creatures but also to countries.

Thailand and Thai people are now learning.

I have every confidence that things will change ......may be not in the very near future.... but eventually.

World history and events in other countries will agree with my statement.

[NeverSure]

Well now, you should ask this question of a Thai. Especially a rural Thai.

Don't you know that the Thai way is always best?

[ABCer]

I think applying the term 'failed state' to Thailand is not warranted.

Coups here are a normal state of affairs. They do not disrupt the day-to-day lives of ordinary people. They are relatively bloodless and do not last long.

Changes to Constitution (when effected) mean nothing to ordinary people for the same reasons OP points out - nobody observes any Laws anyway.

Corruption is ingrained into the socio-econo-political life for centuries. It permeates the Thai life on such a massive scale that not even an all out revolution will weed it out. Not saying it is needed or imminent.

The Army-Police relations are sweet and co-operative. Infrequent squabbles only occur in redistribution of accepted turf of feeding grounds. OP is right - they only appear to be opposing.

Altogether Thailand has been 'failing' for so long that there is no visible end in sight. It is one of Thailand's specifics.

As to the concept of 'Democracy' - there are so many models (from US to RF to GB to PDRNK) - and none of them would be recognized as a democracy by people who invented the term.

Sorry, but I disagree.

[Briggsy]

Try visiting Rayong and Chonburi. Numerous industrial estates powering ahead at full speed, employing hundreds of thousands of people, Fortuners, 3-litre turbo charged pick-ups, on every alternate driveway. Thriving retail businesses lining every high street and shopping mall.

What failed state is this??? This is a ridiculous thread.

[thaibeachlovers]

Thais live in a country where they can get electricity almost everywhere, shelter, water and food at a reasonable price. They aren't at risk ( normally ) of being abducted for their body parts or mugged routinely, and their money is safe in the banks.

Seems a pretty reasonable country to me.

If it was a real failing/ failed state, eg Afghanistan or Pakistan, how many of us would still be here?

BTW, there is no such thing as a real democracy in existance, and the US financial system is so corrupt that it destroyed the lives of millions around the world in 2008.

[Scottythai]

Nope. That's why most of choose to spend our time and Money here.

[Thai at Heart]

The country is fine, it's the state mechanism that's failing.

Don't worry. Thailand will eventually be dragged kicking and screaming into the real world. Nothing is permenant. Not even chaos in thailand.

[Jackson86]

having been to thailand 3 times, generally thailand still has much to do especially on its infrastructure and its political scene. however i do believe that the thai people has done what they could. overall not a failed state yet !

[MJP]

The country is fine, it's the state mechanism that's failing.

Don't worry. Thailand will eventually be dragged kicking and screaming into the real world. Nothing is permenant. Not even chaos in thailand.

Any country can go either way, be it by their own hand or someone elses.

Here's what Afghanistan looked like in the 1960's. Compare and contrast.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2013/01/28/podlich-afghanistan-1960s-photos/5846/

[thaight]

I would answer your question with another question. What is an example of a successful state across the globe today?? Go on and strain your brain... there is no such thing..only states with the biggest military presence... and hence hedgemonic powers. The fact that this many people feel energised and outraged enough to demonstrate their supposed rights to free speech and organise in such large quantities sends a positive and defiant message to me..a brath of fresh air.

The vast many of people in the western world are apathetic sluggish automotons that believe they co-exist in healthy functioning democracies which is the idea that has been served up to them by the right left paradigm that the mass corporate media perpetuates, all while we inhale a bucket of KFC and slurp on a super size tank of coca cola while proclaiming they are free all while the worlds economy is in turmoil. To me, at least... this mass example of civil disobediance is refreshing and only wish it caught on around the globe.. especially in my country.

[MJP]

I would answer your question with another question. What is an example of a successful state across the globe today?? Go on and strain your brain... there is no such thing..only states with the biggest military presence... and hence hedgemonic powers. The fact that this many people feel energised and outraged enough to demonstrate their supposed rights to free speech and organise in such large quantities sends a positive and defiant message to me..a brath of fresh air.

The vast many of people in the western world are apathetic sluggish automotons that believe they co-exist in healthy functioning democracies which is the idea that has been served up to them by the right left paradigm that the mass corporate media perpetuates, all while we inhale a bucket of KFC and slurp on a super size tank of coca cola while proclaiming they are free all while the worlds economy is in turmoil. To me, at least... this mass example of civil disobediance is refreshing and only wish it caught on around the globe.. especially in my country.

Really couldn't agree more. Western 'democracy' is just a bunch of populist promises which will be/are being broken. Proper old boiling frog syndrome in many of those countries.

[farang000999]

Please listen to Doctor Shinawatra to learn how we can solve these problems

[thaight]

Please listen to Doctor Shinawatra to learn how we can solve these problems

I hope you are being sarcastic.

[NewlyMintedThai]

No.

Not even close.

Not yet, anyway.

[thailiketoo]

Well now, you should ask this question of a Thai. Especially a rural Thai.

Don't you know that the Thai way is always best?

60% of rural Thailand don't like being ruled by the 40% of monied elite in Bangkok. 40% or the rural elite in Bangkok don't like being ruled by uneducated farmers. Both Thai but they can't stand each other. The Thai Muslim South does not like the Thai Army or Buddhists or anyone who is not a Thai Muslim from the South. The Thai Army does not like the Muslims in the South. Both Thai but hate each other.

So instead of thinking the Thai way is the right way Thailand is like any other developing country questioning old values and traditional ways of doing things as it breaks into modernity. As rural Thailand changes into industrial Thailand the country is full of cracks and millions questioning and rioting and trying to find a better way of doing things.

[thailiketoo]

Of course Thailand is not a failed state. The only place anyone would even consider the question is in the TVWG.

See map of failed states below. Color code, going, going gone. From Green to red.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_States_Index

[mrtoad]

It has a failed government and a failing democracy. However, the rest of the country seems to just get on with it, irrespective of the bozos in charge.

[uptheos]

I think applying the term 'failed state' to Thailand is not warranted.

Coups here are a normal state of affairs. They do not disrupt the day-to-day lives of ordinary people. They are relatively bloodless and do not last long.

Changes to Constitution (when effected) mean nothing to ordinary people for the same reasons OP points out - nobody observes any Laws anyway.

Corruption is ingrained into the socio-econo-political life for centuries. It permeates the Thai life on such a massive scale that not even an all out revolution will weed it out. Not saying it is needed or imminent.

The Army-Police relations are sweet and co-operative. Infrequent squabbles only occur in redistribution of accepted turf of feeding grounds. OP is right - they only appear to be opposing.

Altogether Thailand has been 'failing' for so long that there is no visible end in sight. It is one of Thailand's specifics.

As to the concept of 'Democracy' - there are so many models (from US to RF to GB to PDRNK) - and none of them would be recognized as a democracy by people who invented the term.

Sorry, but I disagree.

You forgot to say that they are democratic coups.

[sustento]

Thailand is 90th on the list of failed states - half way between Somalia and Finland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index

[thailiketoo]

Thailand is 90th on the list of failed states - half way between Somalia and Finland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Failed_States_Index

Australia is 169 on the list of failed states between Greece and Iceland.

[RikDao]

No. Place is way more complex than I thought previously, based on my several two-week visits. And it isn't Europe or the US, but it's far from "failed." That's a silly modern cliche anyway. I think the title of the thread is asking the "failed state" crowd to come out in droves; that doesn't seem to be happening.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[lanng khao]

Failed my arse,the country is thriving and boom booming.

Sent from my HTC One mini using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MJP]

More appropriate questions would be;

"Is Thailand a state that could fail?" - Any could.

"Is Thailand as a state at risk of failing at the present time?" - Up to them.

[zeichen]

I would say that it is having growing pains. When they split between North and South Thailand, then you can call it a failed state. I would classify Thailand politics as a teenager. They are going through adolescence. A lot of name calling, rebellion, total rejection of authority and going to extremes.

Nothing in Thailand or any country can be failed. We humans are fallable not failable. We make mistakes but it is our nature to progress and Thailand is no different.

Personally, I would stay out of political conversations with comments like your OP. You will most likely get a boot in the mouth from both red and yellow. Showing how to make something better is criticism. Just pointing out negativity or weakness is critical.

[Thai at Heart]

The country is fine, it's the state mechanism that's failing.

Don't worry. Thailand will eventually be dragged kicking and screaming into the real world. Nothing is permenant. Not even chaos in thailand.

Any country can go either way, be it by their own hand or someone elses.

Here's what Afghanistan looked like in the 1960's. Compare and contrast.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2013/01/28/podlich-afghanistan-1960s-photos/5846/

There are stretches and stretches. The fact that Afghanistan became a fighting point for the cold war with the Russians an invading force was quite serious.

[MJP]

The country is fine, it's the state mechanism that's failing.

Don't worry. Thailand will eventually be dragged kicking and screaming into the real world. Nothing is permenant. Not even chaos in thailand.

Any country can go either way, be it by their own hand or someone elses.

Here's what Afghanistan looked like in the 1960's. Compare and contrast.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2013/01/28/podlich-afghanistan-1960s-photos/5846/

There are stretches and stretches. The fact that Afghanistan became a fighting point for the cold war with the Russians an invading force was quite serious.

Sure, it takes a lot of force to cause a state to fail. But the example I gave shows what a failed state looks like and where it came from. Most people under say, 45, think Afghanistan has always been the way it is now.

Beirut's the same. Not that long ago it was a major tourist destination. Look at it now.

[In Search of Space]

Bolivia has had 132 coups since independence - Thailand is just a beginner !!

I don't think Thailand is a failed state, but it does need to do alot if it is to become a fairer society, ie reduce corruption, improve overall education, same legal accountability for everyone and improve the standards of the poor

[phetaroi]

As the original poster, I wanted to wait at least 24 hours before responding to any of the posts.

First of all, some of you are jumping to the conclusion that I feel Thailand is a failed state. That's not my position. It is what I am questioning, and why I wanted to see the viewpoints of others. And, @Thaatheart, when I visited Thailand for a month each year, and then lived in Thailand for two years, I didn't discuss Thai politics. Now being back in the States, I have the luxury of being able to do so.

@Costas2008, here's my question for you. What is it you think the Thais are learning? To free themselves from corruption? Definitely not. If anything corruption gets a stronger and stronger hold on the country as each year passes. To desire democracy (whatever that is)? I would suggest that the only concept most Thais have about democracy is that it's only democracy when their side wins...which of course, is not democracy at all.

@Neversure: Good point about Thais seeing the Thai-way as the only good thing. Of course, that means there is little incentive for change.

@ABCer: How can you say that coups are "a normal state of affairs" if you also say that your country is a democracy? You can't have it both ways. (And I remind you, that I think coups in Thailand have often brought better governments than elections). And, you believe that "nobody obeys any laws anyways". It would seem to me that a relatively lawless society is one thing that defines a failed state. You say that, "Corruption is ingrained" and that virtually nothing will "weed it out". So it's hopeless to have an honest government that rules for the good of the people. Again, that would seem to me to be an ingredient of a failed state. And finally you said that, "Thailand has been failing so long that there is no visible end in sight", yet you say that Thailand is not a failed state. I just don't understand the ABC's of your post.

@Briggsy, yes, I know about all the many industrial estates...that primarily rely on foreign companies. This is a rediculous thread? Okay, I guess it's not as deep as so many of the threads that want to discuss things like bar girls and bar boys. Sorry to be so predestrian.

@Thaibeachlovers: Well, with that moniker I would guess you're living the good life in Thailand...one you could leave at anytime and return to your country...something Thai people cannot do. Having lived in Thailand myself, I would guess that right now you are living with a higher standard of living than the vast majority of Thais outside of major cities.

Again, I'm not saying Thailand is a failed state, but I am sincerely worried for its future. There are other countries that have virtually disintegrated...including right in Southeast Asia. It didn't take much to push over the facade of stability.