The Shinawatras will not go down without a fight

[SheungWan]

Like it or not Thaksin has been the best leader Thailand has had in many years . It is unfortunate that his success both in personal business and for

Thailand has been seen as usurping the powers of the King , his courtiers and other elite . The success of Thailand as a world economy is irrelevant to

Thailand having a traditional pecking order , control of the country must be in elite hands where it belongs , so that those who see themselves as rightfully entitled can cream off all the benefits . If other lesser beings have access to seen or unseen perks then that is corruption .

Thaksin has gained himself a following , not for bought popularity as people like to stress ; he has instigated a fairer distribution of funding to the

poorer regions of Thailand , which has made a huge difference to life in poor rural communities . In a developing country , nobody's perfect , you have to accept the good with the bad . Thaksin's governance brought international business to Thailand , gave Thailand a higher profile in the world . People want to overthrow all of that because he got too big for his boots , made too much money for himself .

So what choices has Thailand got . There is no obvious leader that can in anyway match Thaksin in effectiveness for Thailand or popularity in the country .

Political and constitutional law is an ASS and only serves to make governing Thailand more difficult if not impossible .

Suthep has NO plans for reform other than to return power to the elite . How can you reform a country that is corrupt as a way of life , where none of the people respect the law and where laws are not enforced or even too complex to be enforced . Talking about reform in a few months or years is a nonsense .

Thai people are responsible for corruption at every level and for the lack of respect for the law ; so The people have to learn to live with those

imperfections . Thailand as a country has to be governed , irrespective of its internal short comings .

Now try repeating that without your crib sheet.

There appear to be two crib sheets. One is headed 'Its Not About Thaksin' which is the preferred choice and the backup is 'It Is All About Thaksin"

The above contribution is Version 2, but they seem to take it in turns.

[wprime]

Propoganda plain and simple - shame Thailand's media can't be independent.

can you point out where he is wrong?.

I don't support or like either side as they are all crooked... But from what little I know or care about.., it seems fairly accurate

Sent from my RM-892_apac_laos_thailand_219 using Tapatalk

Propaganda usually is accurate, that's how they get suckers to believe it. E.g. AFP likes to report that the anti-government protestors allege that PTP is a puppet for Thaksin. What they say is 100% correct, but to an uninformed reader it would appear as though the allegations are unfounded.

[Mackie]

Latest news I heard today from a CEO of a large scale hotel group was that Kamnan Suthep bought the Pacific City Club at Two Pacific Place on Sukhumvit.

This guy is the biggest fake I have ever seen. Over 300 million Baht in debts with the Islamic Bank of Thailand against 200 million Baht in assets. Why doesn't the Nation Business section runs a story about the new owner of Pacific City Club.

Will you grow up and get serious. Stop posting childish hear say posts. Your would post carry zero credibility in any civilized debate. Provide a real source instead of nonsensical I heard.

[bigbamboo]

It sure would be interesting to listen in on phone calls between T and his minions. Last time he was in a tight spot, he gave the nod to large scale arson - and his motly troops left Bangkok without even doing some sweeping ot litter pick-up.

It would be doubly interesting to hear what he might be suggesting as an 'ace in the hole' if things look too bleak this time around. Are Red Shirts going to filling stations and stocking up on petrol, perchance?

Adul also admitted that the black-clad individuals believed to have fired live bullets into the crowd from the rooftop of the Labour Ministry nearby were police officers.

That's a grave offense; to shoot others. Too important to leave to police administration to police itself. After the fox leaves the henhouse with blood all over his muzzle, should we leave it to his fellow foxes to mete out justice?

Curious that as no sooner do the MiB reappear on his ministry's roof the Labour Minister himself is recalled to the frontline.

[whybother]

Latest news I heard today from a CEO of a large scale hotel group was that Kamnan Suthep bought the Pacific City Club at Two Pacific Place on Sukhumvit.

This guy is the biggest fake I have ever seen. Over 300 million Baht in debts with the Islamic Bank of Thailand against 200 million Baht in assets. Why doesn't the Nation Business section runs a story about the new owner of Pacific City Club.

The Pacific City Club went broke a few years ago, then reopened about 2 years ago and hasn't been doing that well. If it was sold, it wouldn't have cost much.

[peterquixote]

I feel very sad over what is happening. I came back from Thailand in November just before the situation erupted.

but I had spent a long time studying the rice scheme and the Government generally.

I find it difficult to believe that any level headed person would not despise the Thaksin Government .

This does not imply that the opposition would be a good Government .

The rice bribe to the North East was the most manifestly corrupt scheme I have ever studied in my life, and at every level.

The Government lies and stupidity that followed were amazing.

.

The 2 trillion infra structure scheme is madness, a ten per cent kick back to Thaksin would net this criminal enough to control the army and police for a decade or so.

There is so much destruction to Thailand from this man. I agree with posters who say that the problems are institutional and when we get rid of Thaksin, the work starts then. But first we must be rid of Thaksin control over Thailand, and the idiot devious sister.

[Roadman]

I feel very sad over what is happening. I came back from Thailand in November just before the situation erupted.

but I had spent a long time studying the rice scheme and the Government generally.

I find it difficult to believe that any level headed person would not despise the Thaksin Government .

This does not imply that the opposition would be a good Government .

The rice bribe to the North East was the most manifestly corrupt scheme I have ever studied in my life, and at every level.

The Government lies and stupidity that followed were amazing.

.

The 2 trillion infra structure scheme is madness, a ten per cent kick back to Thaksin would net this criminal enough to control the army and police for a decade or so.

There is so much destruction to Thailand from this man. I agree with posters who say that the problems are institutional and when we get rid of Thaksin, the work starts then. But first we must be rid of Thaksin control over Thailand, and the idiot devious sister.

Well said.

[boomerangutang]

The way Thaksin was ousted was an extremely dumb decision. He should have been prosecuted, prosecuted and so on. By legal means but since the legal system is so rotten a fact, (even before Thaksin turned up) his courtcase wasn't purely objectively handled.

Thaksin needed to go. He was the greater of two evils. A coup was the lesser. There's no way T could have been objectively and fairly prosecuted while He himself was PM or caretaker PM. Earlier, the courts couldn't even convict him of hiding funds, when it was plain to any 5 year old he was. A coup is not pretty, but it's miles better than allowing T to stay in power. If there had been no coup, the stranglehold of the Shinawatres on the throat of Thailand would currently be as bad or worse than all the recent SE Asian despots combined (Marcos, Sukarno, Suharto, Hun Sen, et. al.)

[Ricardo]

The way Thaksin was ousted was an extremely dumb decision. He should have been prosecuted, prosecuted and so on. By legal means but since the legal system is so rotten a fact, (even before Thaksin turned up) his courtcase wasn't purely objectively handled.

Thaksin needed to go. He was the greater of two evils. A coup was the lesser. There's no way T could have been objectively and fairly prosecuted while He himself was PM or caretaker PM. Earlier, the courts couldn't even convict him of hiding funds, when it was plain to any 5 year old he was. A coup is not pretty, but it's miles better than allowing T to stay in power. If there had been no coup, the stranglehold of the Shinawatres on the throat of Thailand would currently be as bad or worse than all the recent SE Asian despots combined (Marcos, Sukarno, Suharto, Hun Sen, et. al.)

Exactly, the only time a coup is justified, is when it avoids something worse.

[A1Str8]

They don't need to go down. They have always been there

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MobileContent]

For the one that tell me I should grow up and show proof that Kamnan Suthep bought the Pacific Club, I only can say mark my words for it. It's also unreported that he owns a lot of prime beach land at Chaweng and Maenam Beach as he has a lot of proxies.

In regards why I am posting about Suthep if this OP is about the Shinawatra's. Very simple, on almost any post that is about Suthep, the Shinawatra's are always getting mentioned.

Regarding the Nation, it's a rubbish paper any way.

[dansan]

Then you've got the Senate stage and court stage to go through to know whether they'll be banned. If they're barred from taking their seats.

The Sentate stage is an interesting one. They have a whole bunch of Sentators who are also looking at getting barred. This in my mind will happen before Feb 2nd.

Once they are barred the overall majority needed to ban the 308 MP's lowers significantly as those banned Senators cannot vote for obvious reasons.

I think with the Senate as it stands now it would take around 93 Senators to vote for the impeachment. With those accused Senators banned it lowers the bar significantly to around 63 votes needed.

Simple math.

When I looked at all this and realized what was going on I gasped. It's just such a brazen clearing of house.

Never, ever seen anything like this anywhere before.

[EricBerg]

Habs Just wondering are you beating a dead political horse or is that the futile attempt of the habs to be a hockey power again.

A team that has 8 players named to the Olympic roster suggests a force to be reckoned with.

Sort of like the Shinawatra clan. They have had their ups and downs, but only a fool would count them out.

The former PM Thaksin still has a few tricks up his sleeve. His has been uncharacteristically quiet for the last month.

Perhaps he's busy setting up an airliner?

[Artisi]

I feel very sad over what is happening. I came back from Thailand in November just before the situation erupted.

but I had spent a long time studying the rice scheme and the Government generally.

I find it difficult to believe that any level headed person would not despise the Thaksin Government .

This does not imply that the opposition would be a good Government .

The rice bribe to the North East was the most manifestly corrupt scheme I have ever studied in my life, and at every level.

The Government lies and stupidity that followed were amazing.

.

The 2 trillion infra structure scheme is madness, a ten per cent kick back to Thaksin would net this criminal enough to control the army and police for a decade or so.

There is so much destruction to Thailand from this man. I agree with posters who say that the problems are institutional and when we get rid of Thaksin, the work starts then. But first we must be rid of Thaksin control over Thailand, and the idiot

devious sister.

Without the fugitive the sister is a non-event, but to be fair - I don't believe the sister is an idiot and devious - just an air-head manipulated by the fugitive solely with his own interests at the fore-front using anyone willing/ conned/ paid to do his dirty work.

[Habs]

------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------- -------------------------------

Habs Just wondering are you beating a dead political horse or is that the futile attempt of the habs to be a hockey power again.

Beating a dead political horse........ And as for the Habs 24 cups and soon to be 25!!!! and as far as being futile you can go suck on this .....enough said.....

[MaxLee]

Drop 2 atomic bombs on Dubai AND Thailand, case closed

[johnlandy]

Of course they won't, they stand to lose too much, but as long as they do go down, that's the main thing.

And go down, they will, AND go down they should. (and must) if Thailand is to survive as a emerging 3rd world country.

The 'head waiter' might not be quite in the same category as Pol Pot but in every other way he is a 'despot' 'and is perhaps a relative of the said Cambodian original'

Edited January 11, 2014 by johnlandy

[whybother]

For the one that tell me I should grow up and show proof that Kamnan Suthep bought the Pacific Club, I only can say mark my words for it. It's also unreported that he owns a lot of prime beach land at Chaweng and Maenam Beach as he has a lot of proxies.

In regards why I am posting about Suthep if this OP is about the Shinawatra's. Very simple, on almost any post that is about Suthep, the Shinawatra's are always getting mentioned.

Regarding the Nation, it's a rubbish paper any way.

I'm not questioning whether he bought it. I'm just saying it wouldn't cost much.

Sent from my phone ...

[farang000999]

Thailand is the soil that grew Thaksin.

He is a product of the system.

Now Thailand and Thai society is reaping its reward.

Eventually it will spill into the streets. It has to.

THERE WILL BE BLOOD.

[farang000999]

The problem with the article is of course that PTP or whatever is created in its place will continue to win every election and it is unlikely Thais will accept the "appointed good people" form of government or that such a government will not be ripe with corruption. Round we go!

[Roadman]

The problem with the article is of course that PTP or whatever is created in its place will continue to win every election and it is unlikely Thais will accept the "appointed good people" form of government or that such a government will not be ripe with corruption. Round we go!

Correct it's a never ending merry go round of stupidity having coup, election, army coup, election, judicial coup, election, convicted criminal coup, election, coup, election ...... and expecting a different result. So don't try and change the people. Change and strengthen the system so that the system cannot be abused by politicians.

[bendejo]

How about this if Thaksin returns to Thailand to face his jail term. That should piss off Suthep. Thaksin would serve his two years in a 4 star jail have access to his people and just control this situation from within Thailand. The PTP will stay in power and once his term is up (out after 1 and half years for good behavior) he will be back free man. I love to see the face of Suthep if this happened.

There absolutely no chance of that happening. Thaksin wouldn't come back if he had to spend a single day in jail.

I agree. If he considered it an option it would have happened years ago, before he had li'l sis installed.

But what of the question of Thaksin's health? Anyone else recall the incident during when the reds were occupying the streets, he appeared on the giant screen without his hairpiece. When he realized his mistake he explained it away as "only a little chemotherapy"? I haven't heard of this since, but I don't follow his doings. Any other reports of this since then? I would think failing health would be a factor in his return. I could see Team Thaksin putting out a plea to allow the fugitive PM to be able to die in his beloved country. Of course it would be a con.

Maybe this topic deserves its own thread.

[tilac2]

more garbage and propoganda from Thanong Khanthong and The Nation, the blatently pro yellow shirt newspaper.

Sure, it's a paper that doesn't favor the red shirts, but what is incorrect in this article. Seems many facts were clearly listed?

Here's one example of falsity: "the black-clad individuals believed to have fired live bullets into the crowd from the rooftop of the Labour Ministry nearby were police officers." Live bullets were not fired from there. It was baton rounds = rubber bullets. The live bullets were fired from the crowd, as the police analysis shows.

Several other errors in this astonishingly propagandistic piece in the Nation. e.g. about changing the charter. This was an attempt to change the election method for the 'senate' to become fully elected, as specified in the 1997 constitution and earlier constitutions. NOT to benefit the Shinewatras specifically. Certainly the change might have that effect, but it might not. That would purely depend on who the Thai people vote for. It's called democracy.

Edited January 11, 2014 by tilac2

[tilac2]

I feel very sad over what is happening. I came back from Thailand in November just before the situation erupted.

but I had spent a long time studying the rice scheme and the Government generally.

I find it difficult to believe that any level headed person would not despise the Thaksin Government .

This does not imply that the opposition would be a good Government .

The rice bribe to the North East was the most manifestly corrupt scheme I have ever studied in my life, and at every level.

The Government lies and stupidity that followed were amazing.

.

The 2 trillion infra structure scheme is madness, a ten per cent kick back to Thaksin would net this criminal enough to control the army and police for a decade or so.

There is so much destruction to Thailand from this man. I agree with posters who say that the problems are institutional and when we get rid of Thaksin, the work starts then. But first we must be rid of Thaksin control over Thailand, and the idiot devious sister.

Well said.

So the political problems of Thailand are all due to one family, the Shinewatras? Really? You truly believe that? Come on....

Now go back and look at Thai history since 1932 (and earlier).

[tilac2]

I feel very sad over what is happening. I came back from Thailand in November just before the situation erupted.

but I had spent a long time studying the rice scheme and the Government generally.

I find it difficult to believe that any level headed person would not despise the Thaksin Government .

This does not imply that the opposition would be a good Government .

The rice bribe to the North East was the most manifestly corrupt scheme I have ever studied in my life, and at every level.

The Government lies and stupidity that followed were amazing.

.

The 2 trillion infra structure scheme is madness, a ten per cent kick back to Thaksin would net this criminal enough to control the army and police for a decade or so.

There is so much destruction to Thailand from this man. I agree with posters who say that the problems are institutional and when we get rid of Thaksin, the work starts then. But first we must be rid of Thaksin control over Thailand, and the idiot devious sister.

Well said.

You write: "I find it difficult to believe that any level headed person would not despise the Thaksin Government."

Well you'd better believe it because I'm level headed and don't despise the Thaksin government. The statistics and figures suggest that he was quite successful - e.g. benefitting the poor, reducing inequality, reducing the national debt. I'm just taking these figures from places like Wikipedia, mind you, and those could be wrong.

It seems that Thaksin was/is hated for 2 main reasons:

(a) because he turned traitor to other multi-millionaires in Thailand and other elites (including relatively wealthy falangs, by the way) in helping the poor,

and,

( because his main support came/comes from Isaan/Lanna - neither of these areas are considered to be 'proper Thailand' by central Thais.

I agree that of course the rice scheme is ridiculous and wrong. Yingluck's government should be punished at the ballot box for that, in my opinion. But suspend democracy? I don't think so. The constant suspension(s) of democracy in Thailand is exactly what has led to the electoral illiteracy in this country.

[JRSoul]

Here's one example of falsity: "the black-clad individuals believed to have fired live bullets into the crowd from the rooftop of the Labour Ministry nearby were police officers." Live bullets were not fired from there. It was baton rounds = rubber bullets. The live bullets were fired from the crowd, as the police analysis shows.

Several other errors in this astonishingly propagandistic piece in the Nation. e.g. about changing the charter. This was an attempt to change the election method for the 'senate' to become fully elected, as specified in the 1997 constitution and earlier constitutions. NOT to benefit the Shinewatras specifically. Certainly the change might have that effect, but it might not. That would purely depend on who the Thai people vote for. It's called democracy.

Reading Comprehension 101: FAIL

The statement is correct, people do 'believe" that they fired the bullets. Whether the police investigation or that belief is true is another matter.

The senate changes were not to benefit the Shinawatras specifically, and the amnesty wasn't to benefit Thaksin - Right. But when were the Thai people going to vote for either?

[pantareiyingluck]

Another important achivement of Thaksin well worth to mention, was his dedication to rule out ot at least fight drugs and its trade. His War on Drugs doesn't deserve perhaps a Beauty Price but at least something was done. From 2006 I have noticed Bangkok being taken over by pills, yabaa, crack etc etc. In the entertainmentsector it seems you don't belong to the scene if no drugs taken. It is a lost War now with very very doubtful dealers (read: police involved). While Abhisit was Prem's puppet and focusing on his pathetic battle to fight Thaksin and Hun Sen more important struggles like protecting his citizens for drugs supply were at the background. I see it in my streets. Yabaa addicts searching garbage bins for some left over food. No professional help, no battle to conquer the drug maafia. Alone for this reason I already wish T back on Thai soil.

[Mackie]

You write: "I find it difficult to believe that any level headed person would not despise the Thaksin Government."

Well you'd better believe it because I'm level headed and don't despise the Thaksin government. The statistics and figures suggest that he was quite successful - e.g. benefitting the poor, reducing inequality, reducing the national debt. I'm just taking these figures from places like Wikipedia, mind you, and those could be wrong.

It seems that Thaksin was/is hated for 2 main reasons:

(a) because he turned traitor to other multi-millionaires in Thailand and other elites (including relatively wealthy falangs, by the way) in helping the poor,

and,

( because his main support came/comes from Isaan/Lanna - neither of these areas are considered to be 'proper Thailand' by central Thais.

I agree that of course the rice scheme is ridiculous and wrong. Yingluck's government should be punished at the ballot box for that, in my opinion. But suspend democracy? I don't think so. The constant suspension(s) of democracy in Thailand is exactly what has led to the electoral illiteracy in this country.

So it is obvious that we keep going in circles here. Let me put it this way. Do you seriously believe that Jatuporn, Nattawut, Arisman and similar ilk are democrats and believe in democratic principles? Do you approve of vote buying? Do you approve of multiple voting? Do you approve of throwing hand grenades into political opponents backyards and gardens? Do you approve of physical elimination of your political opponents?

Do you believe in accountability? Do you believe in responsibility? Do you believe in transparency? Don’t you think that citizens should be informed by their representatives how best to determine their affairs and how best to execute them. Shouldn’t the 2.2 trillion baht loan and the mechanics around it be fully scrutinized and explained to Thai public?

Democracy means accountability. Democracy means openness. Democracy means representation. Democracy means responsibility. Democracy means transparency. Can you just be honest for a minute and answer all those questions? Yes, I know, Thailand under current government is not a democratic country. Democracy is non-existent. Unfortunately, it only exists in heads of some deluded posters on this forum.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Mackie

[pantareiyingluck]

Yes. Accountability. Transparency. We all saw that during the Abhisit era. Rohinya's being pushed back the sea. Lao h'Mong official recognised UNHCR refugees forceully deported back to Laos (4.715 people to be exact incl. Babies) and stripped of all their belongings. No if you seek the Real Democratic Principles you have to knock on Abhisits' door.

[englishoak]

Yes. Accountability. Transparency. We all saw that during the Abhisit era. Rohinya's being pushed back the sea. Lao h'Mong official recognised UNHCR refugees forceully deported back to Laos (4.715 people to be exact incl. Babies) and stripped of all their belongings. No if you seek the Real Democratic Principles you have to knock on Abhisits' door.

great point shame it never got started while he had the chance lol the guy is full of bs no less than the others.

Mark has no excuse he was educated at Oxford but he dosnt know the meaning of the word Democratic Principles I can assure you. He is totally an uncredible on the world stage now since he threw his lot on with the mob, just another talking head