The Shinawatras will not go down without a fight

[Toscano]

Rob8891

" Clearly its time for your afternoon nap "

Good idea Rob , I'd be happy to join you .

Before we start to snore in unison , what was your opinion on the present political crisis ?

[Emptyset]

Adul also admitted that the black-clad individuals believed to have fired live bullets into the crowd from the rooftop of the Labour Ministry nearby were police officers.

Well, "believed" is the operative word here, since there's no evidence they fired live bullets.

Just like there is no evidence that MiB lobbed grenades and fired into non-red-shirts you mean?

Now stop the red-herrings and stick to the topic.

What is it with you and grenades? Are you a weekend warrior? I love it when you complain about others being off topic, just after you slip your own sly little off topic comment in. Do you understand hypocrisy?

Especially after what I wrote directly addresses something written in the OP. And surely if there was ever a good example of a 'red herring' it'd be exactly what Rubl wrote - which appears to be deliberate attempt to confuse the riot policemen on the Labour Ministry rooftop with the men in black from 2010. lol.

[fab4]

My dear fabs, I'm getting annoyed with people always going on about "no evidence, so it isn't true". Just like the discussion I had with your predecessor on "Thaksin involved in peace talks" last year. No proff, not tru and confirmation a year later.

I don't slyly slip in my comments. I do it openly for all to see and do it just to show how annoying it is when others feel a need for 'no evidence, not true' again.

As for hypocrisy, well I've read some of your posts.

PS currently sitting in a computer room at one of the local banks wearing a black shirt with 'GLOCK perfection" and a gun on it

It's Fab4 - aren't you aware of the rules - do not misspell peoples names etc?

[rubl]

Just like there is no evidence that MiB lobbed grenades and fired into non-red-shirts you mean?

Now stop the red-herrings and stick to the topic.

What is it with you and grenades? Are you a weekend warrior? I love it when you complain about others being off topic, just after you slip your own sly little off topic comment in. Do you understand hypocrisy?

Especially after what I wrote directly addresses something written in the OP. And surely if there was ever a good example of a 'red herring' it'd be exactly what Rubl wrote - which appears to be deliberate attempt to confuse the riot policemen on the Labour Ministry rooftop with the men in black from 2010. lol.

"Police Chief Adul Saengsingkaew has also come out to distance himself from the Din Daeng incident, in which a civilian and a policeman were killed during violent clashes in December that also left many others injured. Adul said he was not responsible for giving the order to shoot in Din Daeng, where the Election Commission was organising registration of political parties. Adul also admitted that the black-clad individuals believed to have fired live bullets into the crowd from the rooftop of the Labour Ministry nearby were police officers. Following Adul's remarks, the police forces, traditionally a power base of the Shinawatras, were in disarray as a furious round of finger-pointing broke out. Now, the police might not dare to employ force against the protesters."

OK, truly on topic. The police chief distances himself in an article on Shinawatras. Only a few posters left who concentrate on minor details and other red harings

[ggold]

more garbage and propoganda from Thanong Khanthong and The Nation, the blatently pro yellow shirt newspaper.

So the truth becomes propaganda! I guess all the PTP scams are a figment of peoples imagination. Its all just lies! The guy doesn't know what he's talking about, Really?

which Thailand do you live in, can't be this one can it?

[rubl]

My dear fabs, I'm getting annoyed with people always going on about "no evidence, so it isn't true". Just like the discussion I had with your predecessor on "Thaksin involved in peace talks" last year. No proff, not tru and confirmation a year later.

I don't slyly slip in my comments. I do it openly for all to see and do it just to show how annoying it is when others feel a need for 'no evidence, not true' again.

As for hypocrisy, well I've read some of your posts.

PS currently sitting in a computer room at one of the local banks wearing a black shirt with 'GLOCK perfection" and a gun on it

It's Fab4 - aren't you aware of the rules - do not misspell peoples names etc?

Your sense of humour is failing you, my dear chap.

with any respect possibly necessary,

Barney rubl, D.U. p. e.

[Emptyset]

What is it with you and grenades? Are you a weekend warrior? I love it when you complain about others being off topic, just after you slip your own sly little off topic comment in. Do you understand hypocrisy?

My dear fabs, I'm getting annoyed with people always going on about "no evidence, so it isn't true". Just like the discussion I had with your predecessor on "Thaksin involved in peace talks" last year. No proff, not tru and confirmation a year later.

I don't slyly slip in my comments. I do it openly for all to see and do it just to show how annoying it is when others feel a need for 'no evidence, not true' again.

As for hypocrisy, well I've read some of your posts.

PS currently sitting in a computer room at one of the local banks wearing a black shirt with 'GLOCK perfection" and a gun on it

'I'm getting annoyed with people always going on about "no evidence, so it isn't true".' So we should believe things are true when we have no evidence? Should we always do this or just in cases that involve Thaksin and the 'men in black'? What if we have evidence that something is false? Should we then believe it's true, or false? It's all so confusing. (This is where I was going to start writing about an invisible tea pot that circles the Sun but decided not to bother because it'd probably get deleted anyway).

Also, if you read what I said carefully, you'll note I didn't say it wasn't true. But evidence does suggest that people on the ground were using guns and that live bullets were being used on the other side of the stadium, directed at a location police from the rooftop couldn't possibly be firing upon. So why do we need to believe that police on the roof top were shooting? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but it's not necessary for an explanation of the live bullets. Occam's razor.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Emptyset

[Cricketnut]

This is a nice summation for anyone who is not totally familiar with what's going on. Except the info on the water scheme is out of date - it's going ahead, but not before public hearings are held.

But we already know the Shins and their allies are going for broke at the expense of the people and the country. When the dust settles from this - and it's going to be very dusty indeed - I hope a shrine of shame is erected to Thaksin et al so that we never forget how megalomania is the ultimate poison.

Nice summation or what? I will go out on a limb here and say that the PTP party will survive through this horrible debacle that is happening at the moment. Yes the next week will tell, but as I have said before and will say again, even if they are condemmned to oblivion, this oblivion will only last one year. Guess what folks they will be back and better for it. I dont support either party, I simply try to read in between the lines. Somchai will raise his hand, the millitary have made it quite clear that if and I must underscore if here, that if the PTP party stay quite on this, Suthep loses. Abi has lost all credibility not only in Thailand, but also the world. The world media is backing the current caretaker Yingluck, like it or lump it and it is all just a game in this country. Only when the Democrats connect with the North and the East, in which they have failed to do in over 20 years will they be a force to be dealt with. They have themselves to blame. Thaksin and his macro-economics on the other hand played his cards well. People, can you tell me that he is any different to Clinton, Bush Jnr, Blair and co... Ahh I dont think you can. It just happens that people are jealous of his shrewd (though illegal dealings) that have made him rich. But what of everyone else who has done the same thing. No one cries foul over these people. What about Cambodia at the moment, and other nations? One thing can be said of the PTP party, they have done more for the poor of this country then any other party and it is just a fact. Look at the investments made in the East and North, or are we blind to these. Look at the jobs created? Thaksin is no Angel that is for sure, but is he really the devil in disguise like a lot of people think on this forum? Guess that is up to you all to decide. There is a reason he is so popular and that the PTP party have won so often. Think about this. Why havent the Dems and the suppossed elite? Simple, they cant connect with anyone except themselves and some people in Bangkok and their relatives, it takes no rocket scientist to work this out. Thanks for letting me rave.

[bigbamboo]

Like it or not Thaksin has been the best leader Thailand has had in many years . It is unfortunate that his success both in personal business and for

Thailand has been seen as usurping the powers of the King , his courtiers and other elite . The success of Thailand as a world economy is irrelevant to

Thailand having a traditional pecking order , control of the country must be in elite hands where it belongs , so that those who see themselves as rightfully entitled can cream off all the benefits . If other lesser beings have access to seen or unseen perks then that is corruption .

Thaksin has gained himself a following , not for bought popularity as people like to stress ; he has instigated a fairer distribution of funding to the

poorer regions of Thailand , which has made a huge difference to life in poor rural communities . In a developing country , nobody's perfect , you have to accept the good with the bad . Thaksin's governance brought international business to Thailand , gave Thailand a higher profile in the world . People want to overthrow all of that because he got too big for his boots , made too much money for himself .

So what choices has Thailand got . There is no obvious leader that can in anyway match Thaksin in effectiveness for Thailand or popularity in the country .

Political and constitutional law is an ASS and only serves to make governing Thailand more difficult if not impossible .

Suthep has NO plans for reform other than to return power to the elite . How can you reform a country that is corrupt as a way of life , where none of the people respect the law and where laws are not enforced or even too complex to be enforced . Talking about reform in a few months or years is a nonsense .

Thai people are responsible for corruption at every level and for the lack of respect for the law ; so The people have to learn to live with those

imperfections . Thailand as a country has to be governed , irrespective of its internal short comings .

Now try repeating that without your crib sheet.

[Rob8891]

Rob8891

" Clearly its time for your afternoon nap "

Good idea Rob , I'd be happy to join you .

Before we start to snore in unison , what was your opinion on the present political crisis ?

Read back through my posts and you will be able to answer your own question. And thanks for the offer of a sleeping partner: I'll have to pass, however..... Mrs R might not be too happy..?

[marcusd]

Propoganda plain and simple - shame Thailand's media can't be independent.

can you point out where he is wrong?.

I don't support or like either side as they are all crooked... But from what little I know or care about.., it seems fairly accurate

Sent from my RM-892_apac_laos_thailand_219 using Tapatalk

[Ozymandias]

How about this if Thaksin returns to Thailand to face his jail term. That should piss off Suthep. Thaksin would serve his two years in a 4 star jail have access to his people and just control this situation from within Thailand. The PTP will stay in power and once his term is up (out after 1 and half years for good behavior) he will be back free man. I love to see the face of Suthep if this happened.

DOH! What about his other little charges, like embezzling a billion baht, do you expect them to disappear?

Even if true, that would represent small change, a drop in the ocean, relative to the enormous wealth stolen from the Thai people by the very same groups and organizations seeking a return to power ( but led by "good people"). You are completely clueless when it comes to the realities of Thai politics and power over many decades. Not the vaguest idea other than simplistic and increasingly hysterical references to Thaksin. Why do foreigners become so obsessed with what is transitory and trivial and ignore the bigger picture of organized corruption on a mega-scale? Thaksin is not THE problem here. He is a thorn in the side of those who believe their time at the trough should continue unchallenged, almost by birthright

Absolutely. Many posters here have such a simplistic & limited idea of what is really going on in Thailand, I can only assume a) they have read nothing of Thai political history per-Thaksin they know nothing of the history of the Democrats c) they rely on word of mouth for all their info & d) as you say, they are incapable or unwilling to see the bigger picture.

This is a power struggle, and as such means both sides crave power. It has little to do with principles like anti-corruption and much to do with who stands behind the principle characters. One is Thaksin, obviously. Who do you imagine stands behind Suthep? Unless & until you tackle that question, your posts just make you seem like a clueless 6th former who imagines he/she knows what's going on.

[fish fingers]

"You choose your leaders and place your trust
As their lies wash you down and their promises rust
You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns
And the public wants what the public gets
But I don't get what this society wants"

Going Underground/The Jam

[MILT]

Shinawhat's have created a lot of Shinawanttobe's. There are a whole bunch ready to take their place in the vacuum that is going to take place when Mr. Suthep. wins this round.

Who will it be? Thai politics can be bad mmmmmmkay.

[plachon]

This is a nice summation for anyone who is not totally familiar with what's going on. Except the info on the water scheme is out of date - it's going ahead, but not before public hearings are held.

But we already know the Shins and their allies are going for broke at the expense of the people and the country. When the dust settles from this - and it's going to be very dusty indeed - I hope a shrine of shame is erected to Thaksin et al so that we never forget how megalomania is the ultimate poison.

I've not being paying full attention to the news, so missed any announcement that the 350 billion water development mega-project is going ahead. Could you please provide a link, as am interested to know the details, like is the money already borrowed, if so from where and will it proceed in its entirety, or just certain bits of the overall project. If so, which parts are prioritised? Thanks in advance for any recent factual sources of information related to this.

[Fullstop]

Thaksin Shinawatra, a fugitive from justice, will never see Thailand again now that the amnesty bill has been killed.

"Never"? The author is THAT sure he's a spineless coward? That he will NEVER return to do his time like a man? ... Yeah OK. He's probably right.

[slapout]

Just a brief reply to post 106.

In my decades living, working, doing business in Thailand with private sector, military, etc, I have found the only consist is the inconsistency. This seems to apply to knowledge, business practices, approaches to problems, politics, etc.

Now I admit to not being an expert or maybe ever real knowledgeable, but I do not recall any previous massive power struggle as some self proclaimed experts propose is taking place, so I won't even approach said proposal. I have found a lot of the real knowledge comes with experience and I for one, do not remember this type of a scenerio in Thailand before.

[Rob8891]

This is a nice summation for anyone who is not totally familiar with what's going on. Except the info on the water scheme is out of date - it's going ahead, but not before public hearings are held.

But we already know the Shins and their allies are going for broke at the expense of the people and the country. When the dust settles from this - and it's going to be very dusty indeed - I hope a shrine of shame is erected to Thaksin et al so that we never forget how megalomania is the ultimate poison.

I've not being paying full attention to the news, so missed any announcement that the 350 billion water development mega-project is going ahead. Could you please provide a link, as am interested to know the details, like is the money already borrowed, if so from where and will it proceed in its entirety, or just certain bits of the overall project. If so, which parts are prioritised? Thanks in advance for any recent factual sources of information related to this.

Apologies that this is not 100% on-topic. Just replying to the query above.

Try this thread.... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/695521-thai-water-management-scheme-public-hearings-necessary-judge/

[wprime]

Propoganda plain and simple - shame Thailand's media can't be independent.

Agree but AFP and Reuters aren't shy about being pro-Thaksin either.

[spirit47]

How about this if Thaksin returns to Thailand to face his jail term. That should piss off Suthep. Thaksin would serve his two years in a 4 star jail have access to his people and just control this situation from within Thailand. The PTP will stay in power and once his term is up (out after 1 and half years for good behavior) he will be back free man. I love to see the face of Suthep if this happened.

DOH! What about his other little charges, like embezzling a billion baht, do you expect them to disappear?

Even if true, that would represent small change, a drop in the ocean, relative to the enormous wealth stolen from the Thai people by the very same groups and organizations seeking a return to power ( but led by "good people"). You are completely clueless when it comes to the realities of Thai politics and power over many decades. Not the vaguest idea other than simplistic and increasingly hysterical references to Thaksin. Why do foreigners become so obsessed with what is transitory and trivial and ignore the bigger picture of organized corruption on a mega-scale? Thaksin is not THE problem here. He is a thorn in the side of those who believe their time at the trough should continue unchallenged, almost by birthright

Absolutely. Many posters here have such a simplistic & limited idea of what is really going on in Thailand, I can only assume a) they have read nothing of Thai political history per-Thaksin they know nothing of the history of the Democrats c) they rely on word of mouth for all their info & d) as you say, they are incapable or unwilling to see the bigger picture.

This is a power struggle, and as such means both sides crave power. It has little to do with principles like anti-corruption and much to do with who stands behind the principle characters. One is Thaksin, obviously. Who do you imagine stands behind Suthep? Unless & until you tackle that question, your posts just make you seem like a clueless 6th former who imagines he/she knows what's going on.

People believe, what they want believe, I believe that Sutheps ambitions are a step in the right direction, maybe Im wrong, but this will be happen in the future.

And I believe that the Taksin Regime is a criminal Network that only take care themself, but this is based on that what they doing in the past, how the acting now, and what for people involved their, that are facts. So the only arguments coming from the reds are:"Suthep is corrupt too, and the elite wants their power back".

Than I must say, the arguments for Sutheps PDRC weigh much more, its a little risk against this what Taksin planed and attempted. I still hope for real reforms, that makes Thailand more fair and clean...

[Artisi]

Like it or not Thaksin has been the best leader Thailand has had in many years . It is unfortunate that his success both in personal business and for

Thailand has been seen as usurping the powers of the King , his courtiers and other elite . The success of Thailand as a world economy is irrelevant to

Thailand having a traditional pecking order , control of the country must be in elite hands where it belongs , so that those who see themselves as rightfully entitled can cream off all the benefits . If other lesser beings have access to seen or unseen perks then that is corruption .

Thaksin has gained himself a following , not for bought popularity as people like to stress ; he has instigated a fairer distribution of funding to the

poorer regions of Thailand , which has made a huge difference to life in poor rural communities . In a developing country , nobody's perfect , you have to accept the good with the bad . Thaksin's governance brought international business to Thailand , gave Thailand a higher profile in the world . People want to overthrow all of that because he got too big for his boots , made too much money for himself .

So what choices has Thailand got . There is no obvious leader that can in anyway match Thaksin in effectiveness for Thailand or popularity in the country .

Political and constitutional law is an ASS and only serves to make governing Thailand more difficult if not impossible .

Suthep has NO plans for reform other than to return power to the elite . How can you reform a country that is corrupt as a way of life , where none of the people respect the law and where laws are not enforced or even too complex to be enforced . Talking about reform in a few months or years is a nonsense .

Thai people are responsible for corruption at every level and for the lack of respect for the law ; so The people have to learn to live with those

imperfections . Thailand as a country has to be governed , irrespective of its internal short comings .

Now try repeating that without your crib sheet.

The only fairer unfair distribution of funding was to the Shinawatra family, maids, drivers, friends and the brown-nosing hanger on's.

[plachon]

Just a brief reply to post 106.

In my decades living, working, doing business in Thailand with private sector, military, etc, I have found the only consist is the inconsistency. This seems to apply to knowledge, business practices, approaches to problems, politics, etc.

Now I admit to not being an expert or maybe ever real knowledgeable, but I do not recall any previous massive power struggle as some self proclaimed experts propose is taking place, so I won't even approach said proposal. I have found a lot of the real knowledge comes with experience and I for one, do not remember this type of a scenerio in Thailand before.

You're probably right, as each new conflict has its own shades and dimensions, but hues of 1976 spring to mind, when the Red Gaurs, Village Scouts and other local paramilitaries were whipped up by the powerful orators of the day (e.g. Samak Sundaravej) into an orgy of hate, retribution and violence, that they could even kill or maim their own sons, daughters, cousins, etc at Sanam Luang and later elsewhere around the country, believing the student activists to be enemies of the nation and agents of "foreign interests". Of course, the context is quite different now (both domestically and internationally) and there are indoctrinated stooges and wild propagandists on both sides of the conflict, but there is still that old sense that given the right trigger, history may well be about to repeat itself with a violent Thai-on-Thai own goal. But as you say, inconsistency and unpredictability are the hallmarks of Thai politics, and who knows, maybe a week from now a neutral, honest and just peacemaker leader may have risen from the gathering storm to takeover the wheelhouse and sail the ship into calmer waters.....

[MobileContent]

Latest news I heard today from a CEO of a large scale hotel group was that Kamnan Suthep bought the Pacific City Club at Two Pacific Place on Sukhumvit.

This guy is the biggest fake I have ever seen. Over 300 million Baht in debts with the Islamic Bank of Thailand against 200 million Baht in assets. Why doesn't the Nation Business section runs a story about the new owner of Pacific City Club.

[rubl]

Latest news I heard today from a CEO of a large scale hotel group was that Kamnan Suthep bought the Pacific City Club at Two Pacific Place on Sukhumvit.

This guy is the biggest fake I have ever seen. Over 300 million Baht in debts with the Islamic Bank of Thailand against 200 million Baht in assets. Why doesn't the Nation Business section runs a story about the new owner of Pacific City Club.

Well, apart from maybe being too new to have made it into newspapers, it might also not be true or not so simple as you seem to suggest.

BTW k. Suthep's financial standing is reported by him as MP, lastly around August 2011. Not sure if he already did the 'asset declaration' upon stepping down as MP. All 500 MP's and non-MP cabinet members will do so as well with the dissolved parliament and Democrats stepped down before. Those asset declarations are no secret at all.

PS the topic is the Shinawatras, those Amply Rich people

Edited January 10, 2014 by rubl

[Jip99]

Latest news I heard today from a CEO of a large scale hotel group was that Kamnan Suthep bought the Pacific City Club at Two Pacific Place on Sukhumvit.

This guy is the biggest fake I have ever seen. Over 300 million Baht in debts with the Islamic Bank of Thailand against 200 million Baht in assets. Why doesn't the Nation Business section runs a story about the new owner of Pacific City Club.

Must be true then.

hang him!......... we can always check for accuracy later.

My wife's sister's friend has a som tam stall at the local market and she said that Thaksin paid 20m to the local kamnan and his team to secure votes/favours.

I am sure that is right as well.

[LivinLOS]

The Shinawtras are a long standing respected name in Thailand

Long standing ?? They are chinese immigrants who have been here for 2 generations before Thaksin.

Even the name has only been around for 80 or so years..

[Mosha]

This is a nice summation for anyone who is not totally familiar with what's going on. Except the info on the water scheme is out of date - it's going ahead, but not before public hearings are held.

But we already know the Shins and their allies are going for broke at the expense of the people and the country. When the dust settles from this - and it's going to be very dusty indeed - I hope a shrine of shame is erected to Thaksin et al so that we never forget how megalomania is the ultimate poison.

Nice summation or what? I will go out on a limb here and say that the PTP party will survive through this horrible debacle that is happening at the moment. Yes the next week will tell, but as I have said before and will say again, even if they are condemmned to oblivion, this oblivion will only last one year. Guess what folks they will be back and better for it. I dont support either party, I simply try to read in between the lines. Somchai will raise his hand, the millitary have made it quite clear that if and I must underscore if here, that if the PTP party stay quite on this, Suthep loses. Abi has lost all credibility not only in Thailand, but also the world. The world media is backing the current caretaker Yingluck, like it or lump it and it is all just a game in this country. Only when the Democrats connect with the North and the East, in which they have failed to do in over 20 years will they be a force to be dealt with. They have themselves to blame. Thaksin and his macro-economics on the other hand played his cards well. People, can you tell me that he is any different to Clinton, Bush Jnr, Blair and co... Ahh I dont think you can. It just happens that people are jealous of his shrewd (though illegal dealings) that have made him rich. But what of everyone else who has done the same thing. No one cries foul over these people. What about Cambodia at the moment, and other nations? One thing can be said of the PTP party, they have done more for the poor of this country then any other party and it is just a fact. Look at the investments made in the East and North, or are we blind to these. Look at the jobs created? Thaksin is no Angel that is for sure, but is he really the devil in disguise like a lot of people think on this forum? Guess that is up to you all to decide. There is a reason he is so popular and that the PTP party have won so often. Think about this. Why havent the Dems and the suppossed elite? Simple, they cant connect with anyone except themselves and some people in Bangkok and their relatives, it takes no rocket scientist to work this out. Thanks for letting me rave.

I wish gambling was legal.

[Arkady]

Thailand - the endgame hub of Southeast Asia.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[boomerangutang]

It sure would be interesting to listen in on phone calls between T and his minions. Last time he was in a tight spot, he gave the nod to large scale arson - and his motly troops left Bangkok without even doing some sweeping ot litter pick-up.

It would be doubly interesting to hear what he might be suggesting as an 'ace in the hole' if things look too bleak this time around. Are Red Shirts going to filling stations and stocking up on petrol, perchance?

Adul also admitted that the black-clad individuals believed to have fired live bullets into the crowd from the rooftop of the Labour Ministry nearby were police officers.

That's a grave offense; to shoot others. Too important to leave to police administration to police itself. After the fox leaves the henhouse with blood all over his muzzle, should we leave it to his fellow foxes to mete out justice?

[pantareiyingluck]

The way Thaksin was ousted was an extremely dumb decision. He should have been prosecuted, prosecuted and so on. By legal means but since the legal system is so rotten a fact, (even before Thaksin turned up) his courtcase wasn't purely objectively handled. He left Thailand and he was right to takethat opportunity. Most of TVF members would go along too when jail is 'flirting' and you have options to fight your battle abroad? Anyway, no nons3nse. A befriended Khmer Colonel trusted me in 2011 that arms stock piling in Cambodia was big business. His job was to take record of the numbers/places/type of weapons. The finances came/come from Thaksin. That is why I say; brace for impact. The Red's are well equipped. Thaksin will seek revenge until the last effort. And to frank. I admire him. Because elite and military brass with close connections thought to shake him (a lice) out of their furjacket. I would have fought the same being in such position.