Criteria for issuing permits to foreign teachers to be standardised, made stricter: Education Min

[webfact]

Criteria for issuing permits to foreign teachers to be standardised, made stricter, Education Ministry says
Supinda Na Mahachai
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- THE EDUCATION MINISTRY is considering amending the criteria for issuing permits to foreign teachers - so it is standardised and stricter - to attract more capable teachers here, Churairat Sangboonnum, deputy permanent secretary at the ministry, said.

The move aims to rein in schools that recruit unqualified foreigners as teachers.

A committee meeting yesterday approved a proposal to amend |the Teachers' Council of Thailand |regulation from 2004 on issuing permits to foreign teachers, she said. The |amended regulation would be submitted for approval by the council's board |before it is implemented.

The amended regulation would require the applicants as follows:

l to be over 20 years old;

l to have obtained a certificate of educational achievement or other equivalent that the Teachers' Council of Thailand approves;

l to have obtained a teaching permit from abroad or obtained an education certificate that required at least one year of study or a degree in another field with at least 24 units in teaching courses from an institute certified by the Teachers' Council of Thailand or that country's public sector, or authorised teaching profession agency while also obtaining at least one year of teaching in a school;

l The applicants must also pass training set by the Teachers' Council of Thailand including Thai language and culture, related laws to teaching, and Thai education philosophy, in order to understand the foundation of Thai society, she said.

The meeting also agreed to cut the previous requirement for the applicant to have English and Thai language proficiency to arrange classes. This was because they saw that many foreigners who teach foreign languages here including Chinese, Koreans and Japanese don't need to use only English and Thai, she said.

The meeting also asked the council to formulate the criteria to assess foreigners who already have teaching permits, she said.


-- The Nation 2014-01-15

[Nowhereman60]

Good, we need to get rid of the trash teachers who come here for a few months or want to stay to take care of their bar girl friend. I am happy to see this. But they also need to raise the salary of those who met the qualifications maybe even double it.

[angsta]

'so it is standardised and stricter - to attract more capable teachers here'

I am sure this will work. What's not to like??

[terryp]

I would have thought that INCREASING salary’s, simplifying the work permit process and better working conditions would be the key to getting better qualified teachers …but who the hell knows in this nut house

[andrewrooney]

Stricter requirements will just mean more people working illegally.

[casualbiker]

Good, we need to get rid of the trash teachers who come here for a few months or want to stay to take care of their bar girl friend. I am happy to see this. But they also need to raise the salary of those who met the qualifications maybe even double it.

And they will not be affected. They already work under the radar. They need to see the difference between subject teachers and conversation teachers. Then look at providing training schemes (TESL etc) to facilitate having decent teachers. What they are proposing is fine for subject Teachers..

By the way all those that gripe about foreign teachers. Have you actually looked into the current criteria and tests, they are fairly extensive already.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Better pay, streamline the work permit process, and remove ridiculous regulations which are misinterpreted by every Thai MOE bureaucrat would be a start. With the substantial need for foreign teachers, a national training and certification (ie, testing) system would be the sane approach. But, TIT.

[tominbkk]

At real schools (ie intl schools) it is very strict. You have to present your original teacher license and transcripts and diploma, you have to take the thai cultural course, and only then are you given a teaching license for Thailand. Most teachers in intl schools also expect commensurate pay that they would get in their home country.

If they expect to get qualified teachers in the language schools and Thai schools as per above, the salaries will have to increase greatly. Or they can just hire certified filipino and cameroonian teachers.

[kingalfred]

They actually believe yet another change will attract "more qualified foreign teachers " to work in government schools for 30k baht? The education dept doesnt know anything teaching.

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[cmiuc]

I am all for it if they also clean up the crap of what is going on in the educational system of thailand... as TV reported that Thailand spends the most money in education in the world which has resulted in poor education... and that didn't start with the foreigners... it started from the Thai system... so if they don't clean that up what good is this problem solving?

[Scott]

I don't know a lot of people who come to Thailand for work. I know a lot of people who come to Thailand, decide they want to stay and then look for work. For many, teaching English is the only work they can do.

There will have to be a huge increase in salaries to get qualified teachers.

If I am interpreting this correctly, then you will likely need a Teacher's License or Permit from your home country before you can get one in Thailand? That will affect a lot of Filipino teachers.

[KimoMax]

A Foreign Teaching Credential or Verifiable Bachelors Education and a Police Clearance from the applicant's Home Country should be the bare minimum requirments.

Any additional training should be decided, paid for, and condcted by the Hiring School.

About Salaries; That is a big question. Several Asian Countries do hire qualified foreign language teachers.

Language Teacher salries sould be regionally commensurate.

[CWMcMurray]

Have mixed feelings about this... As a parent with kids in school, I like it ...

But agree with others that simply making it more challenging for teachers to get license to teach alone does not solve the problem...

I don't believe their are an teachers out there who decide what country to work on based on which ha the most difficult requirements.

I don't think any teachers would say... I won't teach in Vietnam because t is just to easy to get the necessary teachers license to teach legally... I would prefer to go to Thailand where it requires a lot more paperwork and I have to take additional culture courses... Because as a teacher, I only want to teach were the bureaucracy is the most challenging.

It is ok to make these changes but in order to actually attract qualified teachers, the wages would need to attract these qualified teachers

As a parent, I would be willing to face a bit of an increase in tuition as long as it could be justified to attract qualified teachers.

To Scott ... Will use the school you work for and my kids go to for an example...

It is a decent (in my opinion) bi-lingual school. A lot of native speakers and some Philipino teachers, but I am ok with that, as have met some of the Philipino teachers and no problems with any accent.

Let's say that the average starting wage is 40k per month (Scott, feel free to correct me if I am way off)....

Now let's say to attract qualified teachers that can meet these new requirements, the school needed to double the salary to 80k per month.

So extra 40k x 12 months = 480k / 25 kids per classroom =19,200 extra per student per year or a tuition increase of aprox 10k per semester.

As a parent, would not have any problem with this.

But if school want to raise tuition by 20 or 30k per semester , then would not be so happy, as seems they would be trying to profiteer from the situation rather than just trying to cover additional costs.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[culicine]

I don't know a lot of people who come to Thailand for work. I know a lot of people who come to Thailand, decide they want to stay and then look for work. For many, teaching English is the only work they can do.

There will have to be a huge increase in salaries to get qualified teachers.

If I am interpreting this correctly, then you will likely need a Teacher's License or Permit from your home country before you can get one in Thailand? That will affect a lot of Filipino teachers.

Scott, I don't see anything in the OP which would suggest it's any different from what we have now - either a teaching certificate from abroad, or teaching credits (one year/24CP).

Never knew about foreign teachers needing Thai language ability, which has been dropped. I never need to use Thai in the classroom anyway.

Perhaps they will just be stricter with the requirements. They would need to raise salaries to at last 60K a month to get real qualified teachers though. A new teacher in Australia earns 3x as much as what I do here and I've been here 14 years. They just are not going to come, given the problems this country is facing right now.

It's like the analogy - a restaurant is doing poor business, so they raise the prices. Thai logic I'll never understand.

[klauskunkel]

The applicants must also pass training set by the Teachers' Council of Thailand including Thai language and culture, related laws to teaching, and Thai education philosophy, in order to understand the foundation of Thai society, she said.

...but, but, but, "Thainess" can never be understood by farangs...so we have been told over and over by individual Thais and institutions alike. Now I am confused, which is easily achieved...

[Scott]

CW: Your fairly close, the starting salary is around 35 - 38,000 But there are variations.

The problem in Thailand is that they can't quite figure out what they want. They seem to think that if you put a white uniform on the cleaning lady, she is the school nurse. She isn't. She is a cleaning lady in white uniform.

Native speakers can be excellent teachers, but if they don't have the required educational background then they may need to be supervised more closely and give greater assistance in what to teach/ how to teach/ when to teach.

[culicine]

Have mixed feelings about this... As a parent with kids in school, I like it ... But agree with others that simply making it more challenging for teachers to get license to teach alone does not solve the problem... I don't believe their are an teachers out there who decide what country to work on based on which ha the most difficult requirements. I don't think any teachers would say... I won't teach in Vietnam because t is just to easy to get the necessary teachers license to teach legally... I would prefer to go to Thailand where it requires a lot more paperwork and I have to take additional culture courses... Because as a teacher, I only want to teach were the bureaucracy is the most challenging. It is ok to make these changes but in order to actually attract qualified teachers, the wages would need to attract these qualified teachers As a parent, I would be willing to face a bit of an increase in tuition as long as it could be justified to attract qualified teachers. To Scott ... Will use the school you work for and my kids go to for an example... It is a decent (in my opinion) bi-lingual school. A lot of native speakers and some Philipino teachers, but I am ok with that, as have met some of the Philipino teachers and no problems with any accent. Let's say that the average starting wage is 40k per month (Scott, feel free to correct me if I am way off).... Now let's say to attract qualified teachers that can meet these new requirements, the school needed to double the salary to 80k per month. So extra 40k x 12 months = 480k / 25 kids per classroom =19,200 extra per student per year or a tuition increase of aprox 10k per semester. As a parent, would not have any problem with this. But if school want to raise tuition by 20 or 30k per semester , then would not be so happy, as seems they would be trying to profiteer from the situation rather than just trying to cover additional costs. Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

I think the problem is that many schools choose NOT to pay higher salaries if they can get away with it. I would say the salary of filipinos is generally in the range of 15-30K a month. The same school would have a farang for about 40K. I don't know any Thai school that pays all teachers on the same scale. Only internationals would do that. As am example, A school with 800 students gets close to 100 million baht a year. There is a LOT of scope to increase salaries and get western qualified teachers, if they so wished. But they don't. If parents are accepting of the teachers they currently have, and they can't / won't send them to an international school, then the schools just won't bother to get these more expensive teachers. Most schools seem to be run as businesses, so saving on costs is paramount.

[mimithewoof]

Given the approach of ASEAN and the incontrovertible fact that English is the international language, I'm sure most posters on this forum, Thai as well as expat, want to see a higher standard of English teaching in Thai schools.

However, most of my friends who used to teach in schools below the international level have given up in the end, as the Thai teachers and the system itself haven't allowed them to teach to any decent standard. Requiring additional qualifications and experience won't change the modus operadum and living languages can't be taught by rote, however good the intention of the teacher.

Yes, there are foreigners who arrive and decide to stay, with teaching their only alternative as regards self-support. The majority get TEFL qualifications,

and a degree in totally irrelevant subjects ranging from from knitting to quantum physics is now a requirement at most schools. The pay is just about enough to manage on, and the majority of schools can't afford more. The international schools, of course, with their elite pupils, will carry on as normal.

So - these new requirements are intended to bring a rush of fully-qualified, experienced educators to Thailand to teach English, and all the mid- and lower- level schools are about to welcome them with open arms and can actually afford to pay them salaries far above the present rate. And, of course, the restrictive practices will all end in case these dedicated teachers decide to leave as they've had enough of being regarded as full-time babysitters in a system where students never, ever fail?

Amazing Thailand, or as a qualified ex-teacher friend of mine put it - the Mad Hatter's Thai party!

Sad.

[Chicken George]

The only thing that will attract better teachers away from their jobs in their home countries is money and a lot of it! Not going to happen.

[bundoi]

NES salaries in Thailand should be calibrated according to Thai salary scales and cost of living, not the salary scales of home countries (obviously private schools are free to do what they want about salaries).

In the UK the starting salary for a qualified teacher varies, but let's say around 22,000 sterling p.a. pre-tax - about 3 times what an NES might make here; cost of living here 3-10 times cheaper than UK (depending on personal tastes, location).

Don't expect to get rich as an NES in Thailand.

Edited January 15, 2014 by bundoi

[timber]

Hmmm.... In many cases it will mean no teacher rather than a qualified teacher. Out lying districts will

suffer as usual. Have taught in rural school districts and found there were no standards for what

is taught. Quality of education is often hit or miss often not related to the qualifications of the

teacher. If the standards indicated are imposed across the board I am sure many teachers in

rural districts won't qualify.

[sirchai]

The move aims to rein in schools that recruit unqualified foreigners as teachers.

Which will open the doors even wider for the "outstanding" agencies that hire backpackers to fill any positions. They do have their own way)s) to get around all that bullshit. And, please excuse my language, that's what it is.

​I know too many Thais now with "fake" Masters and PhD's. Will foreigners follow their path?

The meeting also agreed to cut the previous requirement for the applicant to have English and Thai language proficiency to arrange classes

Which implants that those "qualified teachers" will have to be able to be fluent in Thai.......

Just wait for the next clown, who'll theoretically "change" the system, without seeing the naked truth.

Haven't met too many teachers here who're fluent in Thai, that kids would accept their orders in their mother tongue..-

Edited January 15, 2014 by sirchai

[Brevity]

"The applicants must also pass training set by the Teachers' Council of Thailand including Thai language and culture, related laws to teaching, and Thai education philosophy, in order to understand the foundation of Thai society, she said."

It seems to me, and I think statistics show, that Thailand ranks very low in education standards both among its fellow ASEAN members and globally, yet they feel that teachers coming from counties that achieve much higher results and have much higher standards should adopt the 'Thai education philosophy'. To me, the 'Thai education philosophy' means doing as little real learning as possible in the classroom and ignoring how to acquire critical thinking ability and the skill required to do analysis. Shouldn't Thailand be looking at scrapping their ineffective approach to education and trying to change their education philosophy to one that uses better methods?

It amazes me how Thais seem completely unable to see things in this country for what they really are. They must be convinced that everything Thai is superior to all other countries, and the idea of learning from other countries or cultures in unthinkable.

From my observations, Thailand needs so much help in the area of (English language) education that the last thing they should be doing is looking for ways to make it more difficult for NES teachers to work here. The problem of insincere teachers who don't know what they're doing or don't care needs to be handled, but the approach mentioned in the first post isn't the way to go.

[BlackJack]

I see a problem here "Thai education philosophy, in order to understand the foundation of Thai society"

[sirchai]

"The applicants must also pass training set by the Teachers' Council of Thailand including Thai language and culture, related laws to teaching, and Thai education philosophy, in order to understand the foundation of Thai society, she said."

It seems to me, and I think statistics show, that Thailand ranks very low in education standards both among its fellow ASEAN members and globally, yet they feel that teachers coming from counties that achieve much higher results and have much higher standards should adopt the 'Thai education philosophy'. To me, the 'Thai education philosophy' means doing as little real learning as possible in the classroom and ignoring how to acquire critical thinking ability and the skill required to do analysis. Shouldn't Thailand be looking at scrapping their ineffective approach to education and trying to change their education philosophy to one that uses better methods?

It amazes me how Thais seem completely unable to see things in this country for what they really are. They must be convinced that everything Thai is superior to all other countries, and the idea of learning from other countries or cultures in unthinkable.

From my observations, Thailand needs so much help in the area of (English language) education that the last thing they should be doing is looking for ways to make it more difficult for NES teachers to work here. The problem of insincere teachers who don't know what they're doing or don't care needs to be handled, but the approach mentioned in the first post isn't the way to go.

A real good one. They should also consider if the hiring practice of "English teachers" from an ASEAN member country makes sense.

Unfortunately, speaking English a little bit better than Thais do, doesn't make them to better teachers. ( my experience), as i can't have a simple conversation with them.

They don't know more than Thai people do about geography, history, etc..which shows the quality of their educational system.

Apparently, most of them arrive with degrees in education, even in English, but many can't have a simple conversation, or writing a simple speech for a 7 year old.

I'm not saying that many had bought their degrees here.Things will even get worse now, as schools won't pay a higher salary for "farlang" teachers

By the way, our school's looking for an experienced English teacher, native English speaker, degree in education, preferable a Masters.

This is not a joke, a real job offer. Starting salary will be 25 K/month.

Location: Center of Ubon Ratchathani. It's a bigger primary school, as far as I know, you'll teach grade five, but that might change.

-

Edited January 15, 2014 by sirchai

[bundoi]

"The applicants must also pass training set by the Teachers' Council of Thailand including Thai language and culture, related laws to teaching, and Thai education philosophy, in order to understand the foundation of Thai society, she said."

It seems to me, and I think statistics show, that Thailand ranks very low in education standards both among its fellow ASEAN members and globally, yet they feel that teachers coming from counties that achieve much higher results and have much higher standards should adopt the 'Thai education philosophy'. To me, the 'Thai education philosophy' means doing as little real learning as possible in the classroom and ignoring how to acquire critical thinking ability and the skill required to do analysis. Shouldn't Thailand be looking at scrapping their ineffective approach to education and trying to change their education philosophy to one that uses better methods?

It amazes me how Thais seem completely unable to see things in this country for what they really are. They must be convinced that everything Thai is superior to all other countries, and the idea of learning from other countries or cultures in unthinkable.

From my observations, Thailand needs so much help in the area of (English language) education that the last thing they should be doing is looking for ways to make it more difficult for NES teachers to work here. The problem of insincere teachers who don't know what they're doing or don't care needs to be handled, but the approach mentioned in the first post isn't the way to go.

Many Westerners have a huge problem in adjusting to Thailand, and have a patronising and condescending attitude to all things Thai, as we can see from many threads and posts on TV. That's up to them, but those attitudes should not be allowed anywhere near a Thai classroom (private schools excepted). I'm not saying that the Culture Course necessarily fixes that problem, but it does attempt to.

Your assertion about Thailand being near the bottom of ASEAN in English is simply wrong (there was a thread last week with a link to some stats which few people seem to have bothered to review).

It amazes me that so many westerners here can only see Thailand through their own preconceptions.

[aidenai]

I don't know a lot of people who come to Thailand for work. I know a lot of people who come to Thailand, decide they want to stay and then look for work. For many, teaching English is the only work they can do.

There will have to be a huge increase in salaries to get qualified teachers.

If I am interpreting this correctly, then you will likely need a Teacher's License or Permit from your home country before you can get one in Thailand? That will affect a lot of Filipino teachers.

Scott, I don't see anything in the OP which would suggest it's any different from what we have now - either a teaching certificate from abroad, or teaching credits (one year/24CP).

Never knew about foreign teachers needing Thai language ability, which has been dropped. I never need to use Thai in the classroom anyway.

Perhaps they will just be stricter with the requirements. They would need to raise salaries to at last 60K a month to get real qualified teachers though. A new teacher in Australia earns 3x as much as what I do here and I've been here 14 years. They just are not going to come, given the problems this country is facing right now.

It's like the analogy - a restaurant is doing poor business, so they raise the prices. Thai logic I'll never understand.

Compared to the 'Regulation of the Teachers Council of Thailand on Professional Practice License B.E. 2547 (2004), Volume 121 Special Part 135 D Government Gazette December 9, 2004' the following part is left out!

In addition to possessing the qualifications and having no prohibited characteristics under paragraph one, the applicant who is a foreigner shall have passed the testing and evaluation of knowledge in accordance with the criteria and procedures as set out by the Board.

Meaning 'professional knowledge tests'.

[Scott]

NES salaries in Thailand should be calibrated according to Thai salary scales and cost of living, not the salary scales of home countries (obviously private schools are free to do what they want about salaries).

In the UK the starting salary for a qualified teacher varies, but let's say around 22,000 sterling p.a. pre-tax - about 3 times what an NES might make here; cost of living here 3-10 times cheaper than UK (depending on personal tastes, location).

Don't expect to get rich as an NES in Thailand.

In most businesses, when you hire a person from overseas, the salary package is significantly higher than the local salary. There are several reasons for this. First the employee may have bills and obligations in their home country. For many jobs, the contractual period will be limited. You might want to keep your house, your car, your insurance in your home country.

Second, you are providing a skill which is in demand and can't be met locally.

Many international companies will have an overseas, expat salary package and a separate salary package for locally recruited expats and a 3rd salary for locals.

Employees of, for example, the Thai Embassy in the US or the UK, receive a salary that is respectable for those countries. They also receive a salary that allows them to maintain their home in Thailand.

Unless you are a Thai national or Permanent Resident of the country, the understanding is that you will either leave the country one day, or you will have sufficient funds to retire on a retirement visa. It would not be very easy to accumulate that kind of money on a local wage. Foreigners are severely restricted in the ownership of a business or a home, so your tenure in the country is shakey at best.

[virtualtraveller]

Surprised that no one has mentioned the obvious here: that introducing such strict and unreasonable criteria, even phased in, will mean a mass exodus of teachers from Thailand, as it is you struggle to find properly qualified teachers, if you do, expect to pay them 60,000+, how many language schools etc can afford that. Net result, a massive shortage of English teachers, so Thailand goes backwards. So much for critical thinking at policy level.

As it stands, you can get a temp teaching licence for 2+2 years before having to take the TCT PK test or show a teaching diploma, might reduce that to just 2 years. Industry self regulates by generally expecting to see a TEFL cert at the recruitment level, though they are not standardised or compulsory for the teaching licence.

This is one more example of unrealistic policy putting Thai education in a straight-jacket, it has one of the highest education expenditures in the developing world and one of the lowest English usage scores.

[yakster]

My two cents. Many Govt. schools here act as mini pyramid schemes. The director is at the top. In better areas jobs are paid for. Most Thai English teachers are unable to teach in English. To top it off the govt. schools are exempt from paying the minimum salary for foreigners. No one seems to know what the rules are or if by chance a rule benefits the teachers, they are not followed. The children's needs are sadly not the first, second, or even third priority.

Given this situation, I do not see how any changes will help the children of Thailand achieve better results.

Please note I fully understand that there are plenty of teachers who care for their students and I am sure not all schools fit the model I am describing.

I write this having taught over 20 years in Asia including the past 3 here in a government school in Thailand.