Immigration Crackdown in North-East Thailand

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post removed. Please remain on topic. This is not a political topic or about other countries and etc.

[SantiSuk]

Seems reasonable to introduce stricter controls on visa-waiver entries if there is a legal scheme that satisfies demand for legal workers to do the jobs that Thais do not want to do. I suspect that many of the illegals are workers who gladly accept poorer wages (and reportedly, often appalling conditions) from exploitational Thai gang-masters and their bosses. But who knows - we are all guessing at what are the true facts.

Why would TAT object to a crackdown on multiple visa-waiver and multiple tourist visa 'tourists'? These are not the sort of incomers that TAT wants (other than on a pure numbers game).

Edited January 21, 2014 by SantiSuk

[Genericnic]

If you are here illegally, working illegally, or gaming the system with tourist visas or ED visas, you get no sympathy from me. Do like the rest of us do. Take the time to do it right and you will sleep better at night. I only hope that immigration really does toughen up.

David

[Docno]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

And 40,000 people blacklisted ! WOW that is a phenomenal amount

The AEC is not about letting all citizens of neighbouring countries move around freely or come into Thailand. It's restricted to a select few occupations, nothing to do with the labouring classes.

True - I highly doubt that the AEC will ever come close to the free movement of labour model seen in Europe. On day one, the disparities in national wealth and population demographics would be just too great. Just compare Laos and Singapore. So you're quite right ... a lot of people here tend to overplay the importance of the AEC.

[DeepSea]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

No. The Thais only care about Thais having the possibility to go to other ASEAN countries, but will implement whatever ways they can think of to prevent the others coming to work in Thailand. The whole free movement idea will be watered down to nothing.

Many hospitals in Thailand are desperate to hire good quality nursing staff. You would think that a well qualified nurse, from say... The Philippines (of which there are many, most of whom speak good English to boot), would be able to fill those postiions when the AEC comes into effect. They probably think the same, but will have something of a shock when they find out that the application includes a written and oral test, which has to be taken and passed in Thai... Amazing Thailand...

[judgedredd]

So what are the risks for a foreign person having this description/status:

1. He is a European, age 38 and he lives here in Bangkok... He is unmarried, he rents a nice apartment, he does not own anything here (no condo, no car) He has no kids, no permanent girlfriend, etc.

2. He is semi-respectable for a resident "sex-tourist" type... he is very clean-cut, dresses conservatively, no tattoos, no piercings, he does not drink or smoke, and he's never been in any trouble for anything. He presents a very 'clean' image, perhaps almost unusually so for a European guy his age.

3. He is independently wealthy and he does not work.

4. He goes in and out every 30-days, VOA, and he always flies in and out through swampyboom, and he always stays over night offshore one-night or two-nights where ever he goes, Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing, Tokyo, etc.

Technically, he fits the definition of a foreigner who lives here in LOS on tourist visas. However, he is squeaky-clean and he does not work here. Additionally, he is not making "border runs", per se... (there is always a one-day or two-day offshore break between the exit and the re-entry visa stamps)

However, I'm wondering, what are his risks? On the one hand there is the literal reading of the Thai immigration rules versus how we think it is being enforced.

Comments? Advice?

[overherebc]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

No. The Thais only care about Thais having the possibility to go to other ASEAN countries, but will implement whatever ways they can think of to prevent the others coming to work in Thailand. The whole free movement idea will be watered down to nothing.

Many hospitals in Thailand are desperate to hire good quality nursing staff. You would think that a well qualified nurse, from say... The Philippines (of which there are many, most of whom speak good English to boot), would be able to fill those postiions when the AEC comes into effect. They probably think the same, but will have something of a shock when they find out that the application includes a written and oral test, which has to be taken and passed in Thai... Amazing Thailand...

And why not have the test in Thai, they will be working in THAILAND.

If and when I visit my home country if it happens that I have to visit the doctor I would assume that I could converse with him in my language in my country, why should it be different here.

[GeorgeO]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

No. The Thais only care about Thais having the possibility to go to other ASEAN countries, but will implement whatever ways they can think of to prevent the others coming to work in Thailand. The whole free movement idea will be watered down to nothing.

...under the current way of thinking that would be true, but Thailand will have to adapt, otherwise it will be kicked out of ASEAN, and that could prove to be very costly...!!

[ubonjoe]

So what are the risks for a foreign person having this description/status:

1. He is a European, age 38 and he lives here in Bangkok... He is unmarried, he rents a nice apartment, he does not own anything here (no condo, no car) He has no kids, no permanent girlfriend, etc.

2. He is semi-respectable for a resident "sex-tourist" type... he is very clean-cut, dresses conservatively, no tattoos, no piercings, he does not drink or smoke, and he's never been in any trouble for anything. He presents a very 'clean' image, perhaps almost unusually so for a European guy his age.

3. He is independently wealthy and he does not work.

4. He goes in and out every 30-days, VOA, and he always flies in and out through swampyboom, and he always stays over night offshore one-night or two-nights where ever he goes, Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing, Tokyo, etc.

Technically, he fits the definition of a foreigner who lives here in LOS on tourist visas. However, he is squeaky-clean and he does not work here. Additionally, he is not making "border runs", per se... (there is always a one-day or two-day offshore break between the exit and the re-entry visa stamps)

However, I'm wondering, what are his risks? On the one hand there is the literal reading of the Thai immigration rules versus how we think it is being enforced.

Comments? Advice?

He is not getting tourist visas or a VOA he is getting visa exempt entries.

What he is doing is not a problem at all and there are many doing it.

They entire thing is about people working here illegally or involved in other illegal activities.

[gopis108]

Right-so better to sit down with all that so-called Imm.info and work out a coherent Immigration visa plan rather than always trying to enforce the non-sense blood-suckinh program that is now in place.For example-the PR program which is practically useless to anyone(as planned so that more fees may be extracted).Other sensible countries ie.Canada,have a straight forward PR plan.We apply and about six months later your spouse or whomever pays the fee and boom boom the applicant is allowed all freedoms-working with no ninety day check in etc.etc.,one may appeal and refer to the handbooks etc.There isnt any comprehemsive system here ,that should be the Govts.first priority in my book.

[Briggsy]

Another topic on immigration policy change aimed at Laotians, Burmese, Cambodians and Chinese and all the farangs here are yet again convinced every immigration change is only focused on farangs.

[lostmebike]

So business as usual then

[PaulHamon]

does not sounds like it's targeted at western farang.

sounds like the other farang...

[BudRight]

What is a high tech identity scanning machine?

[sgtsabai]

Well there go all the Lao ladies 'helping out' in the bars. Sporatic 'round-ups' been taking place for several months.

[pinkpanther99]

Immigration might be 'cracking down' as stated in the OP. However, I don't think there will be a major crackdown as the situation with visa runs is a whole industry within itself. You imagine if there was no border runs what would all the Thai minibus drivers, visa agents, tour companies do? Their income would fall dramatically.

[belg]

so what HI PROFILE jobs are those tourists STEALING from thai ? jobs THAI people cannot do because they dont speak the language or have the education or any skills ??????????

[MacWalen]

So what are the risks for a foreign person having this description/status:

1. He is a European, age 38 and he lives here in Bangkok... He is unmarried, he rents a nice apartment, he does not own anything here (no condo, no car) He has no kids, no permanent girlfriend, etc.

2. He is semi-respectable for a resident "sex-tourist" type... he is very clean-cut, dresses conservatively, no tattoos, no piercings, he does not drink or smoke, and he's never been in any trouble for anything. He presents a very 'clean' image, perhaps almost unusually so for a European guy his age.

3. He is independently wealthy and he does not work.

4. He goes in and out every 30-days, VOA, and he always flies in and out through swampyboom, and he always stays over night offshore one-night or two-nights where ever he goes, Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing, Tokyo, etc.

Technically, he fits the definition of a foreigner who lives here in LOS on tourist visas. However, he is squeaky-clean and he does not work here. Additionally, he is not making "border runs", per se... (there is always a one-day or two-day offshore break between the exit and the re-entry visa stamps)

However, I'm wondering, what are his risks? On the one hand there is the literal reading of the Thai immigration rules versus how we think it is being enforced.

Comments? Advice?

I would say there is a chance of being refused entry and perhaps even getting blacklisted. Serial tourist visa runner, clear abuse of the visa system that is intended for tourists. Things you mentioned, independently wealthy etc. are hard to explain to the immigration when you try to enter Thailand on yet another tourist visa. The problem is it may also be harder to get another type of visa, like for example an ED visa in Bangkok, as authorities require 2 year visa history now.

Edited January 21, 2014 by lopburi3
Remove shout (bold text)

[dighambara]

most do 30 days on arrival...then do the visa run every 15 / 30 days..so if you get many stamps ..you are not a tourist...

this will knock a lot of people...so the no have visa will increase ie overstay...

red marks are coming quickly to many peoples passport...

As has been noted in othe rposts, the real problem is illegal immigrants from neighboring countries, NOT WESTERNERS..!!

However, as usual, the Thai Government has identified the wrong people to chase down and punish.

Lastly, Lao and Chinese girls who come to Thailand do not use passports and are predominantly in the resort areas, so this enforcement is in the wrong place against the wrong folks.

[MacWalen]

Immigration might be 'cracking down' as stated in the OP. However, I don't think there will be a major crackdown as the situation with visa runs is a whole industry within itself. You imagine if there was no border runs what would all the Thai minibus drivers, visa agents, tour companies do? Their income would fall dramatically.

I'm really not sure about your theory.

Edited January 21, 2014 by lopburi3
Remove shout

[MacWalen]

As has been noted in othe rposts, the real problem is illegal immigrants from neighboring countries, NOT WESTERNERS..!!

And what makes you think that? You think a westerner that is doing monthly visa runs for years is considered highly desirable in Thailand? There is nothing in it for the immigration too. When you apply for a tourist visa at a Thai consulate at least you pay the visa fee but at the border you just make undesirable and unnecessary traffic. No fees so there is no money to even pay the officers at the border.

Edited January 21, 2014 by lopburi3
remove shout

[lostmebike]

Immigration might be 'cracking down' as stated in the OP. However, I don't think there will be a major crackdown as the situation with visa runs is a whole industry within itself. You imagine if there was no border runs what would all the Thai minibus drivers, visa agents, tour companies do? Their income would fall dramatically.

I'm really not sure about your theory.

Well you got to admit, it's a cottage industry that puts money in the locals pocket and food on their families tables.

Are we really that naive to think that some of the van drivers, taxi drivers and tour companies don't have a little deal with the immigration officials? I beg to differ.

[Cloggie]

Why not simply allow every person ONE extension / visa run PER YEAR - problem solved or is this solution to difficult to implement?

[Pib]

Another crackdown - only happens in countries with weak law enforcement. Seems endemic in Thailand.

Yea, I wonder how long this crackdown will last? Couple of weeks...maybe a month before the next crackdown on something begins.

Isn't there an international rule-of-thumb on how many times a country can implement "crackdowns" per year? If so, Thailand has been far, far exceeding that crackdown limit. Maybe shooting for the Guinness Book of Records.

[geriatrickid]

Another crackdown - only happens in countries with weak law enforcement. Seems endemic in Thailand.

Really? so the USA and Canada have weak law enforcement. I was unaware of that.

[Carrerakiss]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

No. The Thais only care about Thais having the possibility to go to other ASEAN countries, but will implement whatever ways they can think of to prevent the others coming to work in Thailand. The whole free movement idea will be watered down to nothing.

Agreed. But not much need to water it down. From the very start it's only certain skilled professions that will have free movement of labour. Add in a few bureaucratic requirements to qualify for those, and hey presto, everything is as it was.

I know, I'm Singaporean and I took a close look at how I might benefit. Answer is, not at all.

[Carrerakiss]

but won't all this be relaxed regarding citizens of neighbouring countries when AEC comes into force?

No. The Thais only care about Thais having the possibility to go to other ASEAN countries, but will implement whatever ways they can think of to prevent the others coming to work in Thailand. The whole free movement idea will be watered down to nothing.

Many hospitals in Thailand are desperate to hire good quality nursing staff. You would think that a well qualified nurse, from say... The Philippines (of which there are many, most of whom speak good English to boot), would be able to fill those postiions when the AEC comes into effect. They probably think the same, but will have something of a shock when they find out that the application includes a written and oral test, which has to be taken and passed in Thai... Amazing Thailand...

Most of the patients are Thai and many speak no English. So what is surprising about the need for a Thai proficiency test? Of course, it also serves a need to keep those posts filled with Thais, but in essence, I think it is reasonable to expect a nurse in Thailand to speak Thai.

[slipperylobster]

most do 30 days on arrival...then do the visa run every 15 / 30 days..so if you get many stamps ..you are not a tourist...

this will knock a lot of people...so the no have visa will increase ie overstay...

red marks are coming quickly to many peoples passport...

Only holds true if you frequent one border more than four times. You are still free to fly in and out at will, and cross into Cambodia or Myanmar or Malaysia.

Has no effect on me so far. I just crossed Nong Khai for the fourth time yesterday, but barely a glance...and guess what...no red stamp !!!

Very intense scrutiny however, by the Lao Immigration personnel. They had more people than ususual inside their small office (has window 1 and 2). Took and average of 3 to 5 minutes per peson. I looked inside and had 4 computer positions that were checked very slowly and meticulously. 100 people in line with me on Monday....it was 2 hours to get stamped into Laos. Coming back was only 5 minutes at the most...and a smile.

'

[Carrerakiss]

Why not simply allow every person ONE extension / visa run PER YEAR - problem solved or is this solution to difficult to implement?

I believe there is already a rule that tourists visas can only be used for six months out of any twelve month period. As with everything else, sometimes it is reasonably strictly enforced and sometimes not at all.

[newermonkey]

Are these low paid workers doing jobs Thais don't want?

The Thais want these people to do work they don't want to do at low pay and bad conditions (lower than minimum).

Its the government that does not want them because they avoid tax and labor regulations.