Thai PM Yingluck Shinawatra offers to cancel election

[JRSoul]

Since the Constitutional Court appears to have the power to weigh in on anything they choose to take up and Yingluck's government has acknowledged they will follow same I don't see how you can say there is no mechanism to reign in a government.

Your characterisation of the amnesty bill for the sole purpose of serving Thaksin Shinawatra is just conjecture, not fact, but agreed that because Suthep et al was able to paint it successfully as such it helped to fuel the protests.

The idea of reforms before an election is a) impractical, because it cannot happen in a short time, waiting for it to happen while who knows who or what deliberates would ham string the functioning government for an indeterminate period and open to all sorts of mischief. Suthep et al refuse to discuss and demand an end to Yingluck's PMship. c) unnecessary, in practical terms Yingluck's government clearly has offered to work for reforms and that promise and a newly formed government through the election is the best the protestors are likely to receive given their attempt at baiting a coup has failed. they would have the ability to go to the streets again in future if reforms efforts were not forthcoming.

The protestors have chastened and sensitized the government, they've gone far beyond a reaction to the amnesty bill. The failed to get a coup. Time to put an end to the frustration of forming a new government through an election and then do the hard work of organizing their ideas and working to see them realized through elections and legal means and generally keep the heat on to bring reforms over the long haul.

Oh there were many more beneficiaries to the amnesty bill than Thaksin, though it was nicely altered to cover all his known crimes and probably others yet to come to light. What is interesting is that many of those beneficiaries are sitting MPs (though one in particular is rarely seen in parliament) most of whom were quite happy to vote for it despite a clear conflict of interest. As it was a directed party bloc vote, the same conflict applies to the actual party leader, even if that title is given to somebody else, and she failed to cast a vote (nice try, no coconut).

Amongst the rampant corruption of Thaksinist governments, it seems convenient to forget that failing to declare self-interest and recuse from a vote is classed as corruption.

[FangFerang]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

The Shins could disappear from the scene tomorrow and reforms put in place and this would not change a thing for suthep and his fascists/anarchist gang, they would still lose an election by a rather wide margin! Sutheps only chance at not getting tried for murder is to continue his thuggish activity and hope that eventually he can convince his cronies in the military command to stage a coup. My hunch is that suthep will go down in a hail of bullets as a martyr for his cause, which is likely preferable to rotting in a jail cell for the remainder of his life

I understand what you are saying, but that is a bad scenario. Martyrs cannot be silenced...

[Bluespunk]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

The Shins could disappear from the scene tomorrow and reforms put in place and this would not change a thing for suthep and his fascists/anarchist gang, they would still lose an election by a rather wide margin! Sutheps only chance at not getting tried for murder is to continue his thuggish activity and hope that eventually he can convince his cronies in the military command to stage a coup. My hunch is that suthep will go down in a hail of bullets as a martyr for his cause, which is likely preferable to rotting in a jail cell for the remainder of his life

For the third time on this thread, to the the third poster saying the same thing, I never said I support suthep.

I am pointing out that it is stupid to offer to do the same thing to a group of people that they have previously rejected only on a different date.

Clear!

P.S. fascism and anarchy are not the same thing.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Bluespunk

[englishoak]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

The Shins could disappear from the scene tomorrow and reforms put in place and this would not change a thing for suthep and his fascists/anarchist gang, they would still lose an election by a rather wide margin! Sutheps only chance at not getting tried for murder is to continue his thuggish activity and hope that eventually he can convince his cronies in the military command to stage a coup. My hunch is that suthep will go down in a hail of bullets as a martyr for his cause, which is likely preferable to rotting in a jail cell for the remainder of his life

For the third time on this thread, to the the third poster saying the same thing, I never said I support suthep.

I am pointing out that it is stupid to offer something to a group of people they have previously rejected only on a different date.

Clear!

Tell us why you support Suthep again ? ...........

[Bluespunk]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

But the majority of the electorate are happy with it so why should the minority protesters get their way to change the way things are. Its the protesters party who need to reform and win over voters to win the election through the ballot box, not mob rule and closing down polling stations.

Elections are not the problem. I believe that you win an election then you form the govt. really don't care if PT win (which they will) or not.

Where the system goes wrong is that there is no way to remove corrupt govts, they can and do ignore or manipulate the law. The "give thaksin what he wants amnesty bill" was the spark that caused the current protests. Those protesting feel that an election that does not come with a legal framework to reign in corrupt govts is pointless.

They have a point. I don't agree with the way they are trying to effect change but I do see why they are angry. Changing the date of the election will not sooth this anger unless there is a genuine attempt at dialogue before the election.

That was the basis of my post.

Since the Constitutional Court appears to have the power to weigh in on anything they choose to take up and Yingluck's government has acknowledged they will follow same I don't see how you can say there is no mechanism to reign in a government.

Your characterisation of the amnesty bill for the sole purpose of serving Thaksin Shinawatra is just conjecture, not fact, but agreed that because Suthep et al was able to paint it successfully as such it helped to fuel the protests.

The idea of reforms before an election is a) impractical, because it cannot happen in a short time, waiting for it to happen while who knows who or what deliberates would ham string the functioning government for an indeterminate period and open to all sorts of mischief. Suthep et al refuse to discuss and demand an end to Yingluck's PMship. c) unnecessary, in practical terms Yingluck's government clearly has offered to work for reforms and that promise and a newly formed government through the election is the best the protestors are likely to receive given their attempt at baiting a coup has failed. they would have the ability to go to the streets again in future if reforms efforts were not forthcoming.

The protestors have chastened and sensitized the government, they've gone far beyond a reaction to the amnesty bill. The failed to get a coup. Time to put an end to the frustration of forming a new government through an election and then do the hard work of organizing their ideas and working to see them realized through elections and legal means and generally keep the heat on to bring reforms over the long haul.

A. The govt has said in the past on a number of occasions they will ignore the constitutional court. They have a history of threatening and putting pressure on judges to deliver PT verdicts.

B. I never said I don't support elections or think the protests will succeed.

C. I agree reform needs to come about after an election, though like the protesters I doubt PT will do it.

D. We all know who the amnesty bill was for. The DL wants back in.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

The Shins could disappear from the scene tomorrow and reforms put in place and this would not change a thing for suthep and his fascists/anarchist gang, they would still lose an election by a rather wide margin! Sutheps only chance at not getting tried for murder is to continue his thuggish activity and hope that eventually he can convince his cronies in the military command to stage a coup. My hunch is that suthep will go down in a hail of bullets as a martyr for his cause, which is likely preferable to rotting in a jail cell for the remainder of his life

For the third time on this thread, to the the third poster saying the same thing, I never said I support suthep.

I am pointing out that it is stupid to offer something to a group of people they have previously rejected only on a different date.

Clear!

Tell us why you support Suthep again ? ...........

My irritability showing through is it?

[GeorgeO]

Once again we see the lop-sided reporting of the foreign press.

"sometimes violent protests that have crippled ministries and shut down parts of Bangkok"...

No, they are largely peaceful protests which have sometimes come under shooting and bomb attacks from violent outsiders...!!

Oh, those silly blokes from the foreign press!! If only they had the deep understanding of the complexity Thai culture that we ThaiVisa posters all know so well and appreciate. Too bad they are wrapped up in perpetuating their own agenda and casting dark images on this Paradise.

Just curious, are you aware the protesters took over government offices and set up road blocks? That's not exactly standing in a park, and holding a rally you got a proper permit for etc. We're talking about severely disrupting the daily lives of a city, and the only reason there wasn't further violence is because no one stood up to them. Look at what happened to the fellow at the bank who refused to play ball.

Just curious, if I prevent your business from doing business, is that non-violent? Not that this was done, but if I destroy your hard drive, is that non-violent?

Non-violent and peaceful really aren't the same thing.

Sorry, but as I clearly stated in my post, these protesters are 'largely peaceful', and there's nothing that any commentator on this forum can say to disprove that.

However, whether you refer to 'non-violent' or 'peaceful', both are a pretty far cry from what I saw here in 2010 in support of this corrupt government, and as I stated in my post, the foreign press were obviously trying to give the wrong impression of the current situation.

They have correctly stated that the anti-government protesters were crippling the ministries, and indeed, that was exactly their point, to make government business grind to a halt in order to stop the Shin clan from continuing to rape the country of its assets. Their hope is that YL will eventually give up and the reform process can begin.

But for the foreign press to make a comment that the protests were becoming increasingly violent is simply a lie. Those opposing the protests, be they paid infiltrators, members of the police force or fanatical red shirts, have made cowardly attacks on the protest areas, often in the middle of the night when many would be sleeping, They will stop at nothing to ensure that Thaksin holds on to his position of power and control over the country.

Much is currently being said about the reporting standards of the foreign press, and it is clear that they either do not understand what's going on here, or they have some strong reason to put a spin on it...!

Edited January 26, 2014 by GeorgeO

[Emptyset]

A. The govt has said in the past on a number of occasions they will ignore the constitutional court. They have a history of threatening and putting pressure on judges to deliver PT verdicts.

They didn't say they would ignore the court - rather they said they'd ignore the court's ruling on the constitutional amendment. Then they back tracked. I thought they had a point there - no one was able to show a legitimate legal basis for that court ruling.

Back to this ruling and it seems they've been up to their usual practice, namely 'making it up out of thin air' to suit the circumstances.

''In analyzing Friday’s decision, Pornson Liengboonlertchai, a scholar at Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok who specializes in constitutional law, echoed the views of other experts in saying the court appeared to be making law, rather than interpreting it.

“The power to postpone elections does not exist in any part of the Thai Constitution at all,” Mr. Pornson said on Thai television. “The court itself is trying to establish this power.”

http://asiancorrespondent.com/118896/commentary-and-analysis-of-the-court-decision-allowing-for-postponement-of-the-election

[tezzainoz]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

You cannot make demands for reform without stating what it is you want - they are not giving the government the opportunity to meet their demands if they wont say what they are.

The only thing they are saying is that they want an unelected council to govern Thailand and no one in their right mind would ever agree to that. Suthep - organise your party to go out and win the hearts and minds of poorer voters in the North, offer to reduce the influence that the elite in Bangkok have on the country and promote policies that benefit all Thailand and that must inevitably include higher taxation for the middle and upper classes to help pay for better services. In short if you want to destroy the influence of the Shinawatra family then force them to lose through a legitimate election though I think the assumption that all the members of the family are loyal to one person displays a real naivety about family life in general.

I am always reading about the poor people in the North

why do you not walk around the rich tourist areas of Bkk

the area of the slums right next to 4 star hotels

The area the Govt put up sail cloth when the last international conference was made, so the reps of other countries could not see the slums

so every one in the north is poor

Please look again at where the Schin mob live, if they shares some wealth, they could help many in the north

and in the south many people live in grass huts to keep a place i the shade from the hot sun

[kikoman]

Bluespunk

A. The govt has said in the past on a number of occasions they will ignore the constitutional court. They have a history of threatening and putting pressure on judges to deliver PT verdicts.

B. I never said I don't support elections or think the protests will succeed.

C. I agree reform needs to come about after an election, though like the protesters I doubt PT will do it.

D. We all know who the amnesty bill was for. The DL wants back in.

A. "The status of the constitutional Court is very controversial" said Sunai Phasuk, a senior researcher with the New York based Human Rights Watch,

"It is a product of a coup in 2006 and acts mainly as a tribunal not a court of justice per se," he said, noting that the government had been "badly crippled" by its rulings."

The court is a product of the Military and the Rich elite old power base, well know outside of Thailand that it rulings always favor the elite's cause!

B. Great

C. The whole country wants political reform, after the election!

D. If in fact, Yingluck violated the law, she should have been charged and brought up for possible impeachment.

The Caretaker Government , has done a reasonable job since its election to power, aside from the Amesty bill and backing the democractic principal, that all lawmakers should be elected. All of the other charges are based on issues not "proven" to have happened since the election of 2011.

There is nothing wrong with the rice program, it needs some adjustments, as most farming families children are going into other careers, there will be a great change in Thailand's role as a leading producer and exporter of rice.in the very near future, as farming childern are turning their backs on the family farm, the hard work and poor pay!

Cheers

Edited January 26, 2014 by kikoman

[tezzainoz]

There is simply no end to the demands from these anti-democratic goons. The PM has offered talks , time after time after time...but still they want more. No...for Thailand's sake, just give it up

What will talks achieve at the moment? What has Yingluck got to offer that the protesters want? What do you think would be a compromise that would be acceptable to both sides?

I'm not sure that talking with mr Suthep has any merit...he keeps putting more and more conditions on talks. I would like the very reasonable side of the opposition to enter into dialogue. It's probably happening or planned but not yet public....I have no idea but hope that there can be some negotiation away from the brink. There are some good people in opposition....they have valid demands, but this all or nothing approach by Suthep is just not going to work, IMHO

More and more conditions? He has had one main condition that Yingluck won't meet. Her resignation. Calling elections and delaying elections isn't what he wants. He wants her out. The protests won't stop until she is out.

My thai wife and her friends have all made it clear

they protest for Thailand not for Suthep

They just want it to be after the 180 days that allows Tasking to get his GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD

once this is achieved they are going home

[Yunla]

On Suthep, most of us farangs would agree. Still, from his side, he knows that even if YL resigns, the next PM would be another family member etc. Hence, from his side there is no quit and no negotiations. We can talk about democracy all we want, but from Suthep's side, there needs to be reform first.

So it goes...

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

From a true Democracy perspective it doesn't matter who is in charge or who is MP, who they are related to or accused of. The only thing that democracy insists on is that when they are in power they work tirelessly for the benefit of the entire nation, and engage in open no-gloves debate. That is why post-election phase is the 'only game in town', post-election is the cake if you will, and why pre-election is just the light frosting ontop of the cake to give citizens a feeling that they are connected to State. Who wears the shiny PM hat is meaningless, as is the ruling party. The only thing that matters is that the parliamentary machine is highly tuned to force elected members to work hard, debate everything to consensus point, and to have an ironclad defense mechanism to stop unbalanced and abusive policies en-route through the debate and voting process. In Thailand the system allows politicians far too much room to push extreme agendas, and to stall processes. Parliament and other modules of high state need serious regulation here regarding process, that way it doesn't matter if parties have dynastic family leadership or whatever, it is irrelevant so long as rules on debate and bills are strictly enforced. The systems needs to filter out harmful and self-serving agendas and mark all action based on national benefit only. Imho this kind of functionalist & highly regulated parliament is the only hope to solve this endless spiral of coup/counter-coup.

[tezzainoz]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

After read your post it sounds as you think that would be normal that an elected government has to accept the pretensions and exigencies of a minority of the society, which is using extortion and popular pressure method instead of a democratic way, if it is like that I am so sorry but I have to tell you, and all those who support or sympathize with suthep and his no democratic way to do the things, you all are wrong.

And before you tell me that's why they want reform to changes the laws to not allow anyone to be corrupt in the future, ask yourself,

It is this way a proper way to start a reform process like this?

There is no in the whole country better person than suthep to start a process like this?

Why suthep, why not someone impartial?

If were someone whom did not support the opposition party and ex government will be more trustfully, and less suspicious don't you think?

Do we have to blindly trust and give all the power to one man like suthep with his record?

Why do we have to give all the power to one man who does not respect the authorities and an elected government?

A man who says that he don't want negotiate?

A man who want boycott the elections?

I can only gather that you never passed grade 4 maths, for your ability to grasp proportions is absolutely nil.

Suthep's record is hardly the workings of Thaksin's, in fact it is at least a couple magnitudes less.

Respect of authorities is your default, yet the authorities have shown ZERO respect to the people, to the backbone of the nation - its farmers, to the rule of law, and to even the most basic democratic principles of governance.

I suppose that when an election -- however corrupt or tainted or skewered -- is your highwater mark for assessing whether a demncracy is in place and working, rants such as yours make some sense.

you are right in one thing, I am not good in math, to tell the truth I hate math.

But otherwise I can perfectly recognize a false Messiah like suthep, they always use to use the same weapons, manipulation, extortion, populism and fake propaganda mixed with uninformed or influenced people.

I am confused

You started to talk about the Thai people Protest

and ended up talking abut the PTP Party

[tezzainoz]

Thaskin was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand.

I would bet my life savings that Yingluck will remain in power. Money talks and they have a lot of it.

Let me know the conditions of this bet, and what you are offering. Might take you up on it.

I already have a similar bet with 3 other TV members

so I am ready to make it a 4th

1) My rules are that Yingluck must last 6 months as PM

2) 10,000 baht to go to a Thai charity of my choosing if I win

[tezzainoz]

Thaskin was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand.

I would bet my life savings that Yingluck will remain in power. Money talks and they have a lot of it.

Let me know the conditions of this bet, and what you are offering. Might take you up on it.

I already have a similar bet with 3 other TV members

so I am ready to make it a 4th

1) My rules are that Yingluck must last 6 months as PM

2) 10,000 baht to go to a Thai charity of my choosing if I win

[tezzainoz]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

The Shins could disappear from the scene tomorrow and reforms put in place and this would not change a thing for suthep and his fascists/anarchist gang, they would still lose an election by a rather wide margin! Sutheps only chance at not getting tried for murder is to continue his thuggish activity and hope that eventually he can convince his cronies in the military command to stage a coup. My hunch is that suthep will go down in a hail of bullets as a martyr for his cause, which is likely preferable to rotting in a jail cell for the remainder of his life

So you admit he is no coward like Taskin

[tsnyder]

The BP reports that 80% of the people want to vote... I wonder why there are still talks about delamying the election or not.

The people clearly want to vote.

Suthep is losing... He should go back home and think about his own (somber) future.

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's a lot more than voted in the last elections.

It's just his latest lie.

Survey: Less Than Half of Thais will go to vote

Suan Dusit Poll survey published this afternoon revealed that only 45.56% of surveyed people said they planned to vote if the election goes ahead.

19.8% said they would not turn out to vote, 15.78% said they might vote depending on the situation at that time, 14% said they were unsure if they would vote or not, and 5.33% said they were not likely to vote.

http://dusitpoll.dusit.ac.th/polldata/2557/25571390540566.pdf[/url]

Edited January 26, 2014 by tsnyder

[kikoman]

Once again we see the lop-sided reporting of the foreign press.

"sometimes violent protests that have crippled ministries and shut down parts of Bangkok"...

No, they are largely peaceful protests which have sometimes come under shooting and bomb attacks from violent outsiders...!!

Oh, those silly blokes from the foreign press!! If only they had the deep understanding of the complexity Thai culture that we ThaiVisa posters all know so well and appreciate. Too bad they are wrapped up in perpetuating their own agenda and casting dark images on this Paradise.

Just curious, are you aware the protesters took over government offices and set up road blocks? That's not exactly standing in a park, and holding a rally you got a proper permit for etc. We're talking about severely disrupting the daily lives of a city, and the only reason there wasn't further violence is because no one stood up to them. Look at what happened to the fellow at the bank who refused to play ball.

Just curious, if I prevent your business from doing business, is that non-violent? Not that this was done, but if I destroy your hard drive, is that non-violent?

Non-violent and peaceful really aren't the same thing.

Sorry, but as I clearly stated in my post, these protesters are 'largely peaceful', and there's nothing that any commentator on this forum can say to disprove that.

However, whether you refer to 'non-violent' or 'peaceful', both are a pretty far cry from what I saw here in 2010 in support of this corrupt government, and as I stated in my post, the foreign press were obviously trying to give the wrong impression of the current situation.

They have correctly stated that the anti-government protesters were crippling the ministries, and indeed, that was exactly their point, to make government business grind to a halt in order to stop the Shin clan from continuing to rape the country of its assets. Their hope is that YL will eventually give up and the reform process can begin.

But for the foreign press to make a comment that the protests were becoming increasingly violent is simply a lie. Those opposing the protests, be they paid infiltrators, members of the police force or fanatical red shirts, have made cowardly attacks on the protest areas, often in the middle of the night when many would be sleeping, They will stop at nothing to ensure that Thaksin holds on to his position of power and control over the country.

Much is currently being said about the reporting standards of the foreign press, and it is clear that they either do not understand what's going on here, or they have some strong reason to put a spin on it...!

If you would bother to look up Thai Laws about "terrorism" Also,in the E.U and the U.S states mostly the same thing!

Re: A Subjective Element,"As these acts are deem to be terrorist offences when commited with the aim of seriously intimidating a population, unduly compelling a government or international organization to perform or abstain from performing any acts, or seriously destabilizing or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, ecomomic or social structures of a country or international organization."

This quote is from the European Union definition of what is a terrorist offence, the laws of the U.S. are the same and Thailand's law is more inclusive!

There is no acceptable acts, IDed as "peace-full terrorism"!

Cheers

[Mackie]

My thai wife and her friends have all made it clear

they protest for Thailand not for Suthep

They just want it to be after the 180 days that allows Tasking to get his GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD

once this is achieved they are going home

Exactly the same as my wife. But try to explain that to thick heads on this forum. In their obsessive adoration of the man from Dubai they simply cannot think logically or debate reasonably. The cult personality supporters continually refuse to acknowledge the fact that the majority of Thais do not like Thaksin and don't want him back.

Edited January 26, 2014 by Mackie

[LarryBird]

Do anyone really believe that all the corruption in the government is caused by the Shinawatras' controlling a mafia like group? Corruption is rampant throughout all levels of the government, commerce and society. Thaksin is not controlling that nor is Yingluck as a proxy. Whether Yingluck resigns from politics or not the PTP will be elected again and even with a new leader the corruption will go on. The corruption did not stop when Abhisit and his party were in power and will not stop whomever, of whatever political persuasion, is in power. Get real for a moment. Suthep has a history of corruption scandals so he is no different. Neither Yingluck nor Thaksin really need the money and I don't believe for a moment she is spending her days trying to figure out ways of stealing money through corruption. Sure Thaksin tried to manipulate some things to avoid taxes, etc. He did not get away with it, did he? I am sure to this day he regrets not paying the tax for the telecom sale and wishes that the land deal had not happened. Maybe too much greed.

I do believe that a lot of people a all levels of the government do spend time trying to figure out ways of earning a little extra. Greed is what drives a lot of people. The term Shin mafia has been used all too many times to describe the Shinawatra hold. It does not exist folks. If it did there would not be this mess. The corruption is too big at too many levels to control. That's the problem. Everyone is out to grab a piece of the pie and the Shinawatras' can't even begin to control it. Time to take a rest on the Shinawatras' controlling the massive corruption in the country. If indeed this was a mafia-like organization the country would be run quite well with the corrupt politicians taking a reasonable share and letting things function like a well oiled machine. It is not by any means controlled by the top down. That's the problem. Suthep tries to make the Shinawatras' look like a mafia run organization and has his supporters believing that if they are gone everything will be better. Everyone should know he is just as big a crook as any of the politicians.

Sorry to say it but Thais are part of the Asian culture where money is above all else. Mothers want children to marry well to bring the family money. It all starts at the basic family level. It just gets worse. The value system is different from the west and leads to money being all important. Thais are not in general charitable but are greedy. But that is a whole other topic. The point is that corruption will continue and it is just a matter of who will reap the benefits. Nothing changed under Abhisit, nothing will change under Suthep and his ilk.

This political situation is about who controls things. The talk about the amnesty bill which the PTP and Yingluck has backed away from have also been thrown out again as the timing for the election. What good would it do to have another election, bring up the amnesty bill and start the protests all over again? That in my mind is a dead issue. The PTP will move on. They tried and failed. They want to survive and will not bring that issue up again. Which is more important, getting Thaksin back or having the members of the PTP survive. Thaksin may be a focal point in the PTP but the members aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot either over the issue.

Yingluck has offered many times to consult with the opposition but Suthep says she must go first. That is not something she can negotiate on and backing her into a corner is not helping his cause. If he truly wants change then it has to be through negotiation. But what he really wants is Yingluck out, his council in, a change of the rules somehow to give the Democrats more power, none of which is under constitutional means. So how can his demands be realistic. If he wants to gain something he needs to come to the conference table and see what he can negotiate. He can't have it all.

Wow, you nailed it! If corruption is to leave Thai society, they need to cleanse themselves at the bottom, and work towards the top... Everyone is complicit in it. As you also mention, there's not much charity being done here. There is no white guilt. Make your money, squash the rest who aren't family, if you don't your stupid.

[ginjag]

Thaskin was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand.

I would bet my life savings that Yingluck will remain in power. Money talks and they have a lot of it.

Let me know the conditions of this bet, and what you are offering. Might take you up on it.

I already have a similar bet with 3 other TV members

so I am ready to make it a 4th

1) My rules are that Yingluck must last 6 months as PM

2) 10,000 baht to go to a Thai charity of my choosing if I win

Gambling is strictly illegal here in Thailand, according to the government.

Edited January 26, 2014 by ginjag

[MaxLee]

The more time, the better for Thaksin.... The more Cha yen yen,... The more sinister his string attached plans for a bigger redshirt mob mass in the upcoming months,...

... Wanna bet???

[Bluespunk]

Bluespunk

A. The govt has said in the past on a number of occasions they will ignore the constitutional court. They have a history of threatening and putting pressure on judges to deliver PT verdicts.

B. I never said I don't support elections or think the protests will succeed.

C. I agree reform needs to come about after an election, though like the protesters I doubt PT will do it.

D. We all know who the amnesty bill was for. The DL wants back in.

A. "The status of the constitutional Court is very controversial" said Sunai Phasuk, a senior researcher with the New York based Human Rights Watch,

"It is a product of a coup in 2006 and acts mainly as a tribunal not a court of justice per se," he said, noting that the government had been "badly crippled" by its rulings."

The court is a product of the Military and the Rich elite old power base, well know outside of Thailand that it rulings always favor the elite's cause!

B. Great

C. The whole country wants political reform, after the election!

D. If in fact, Yingluck violated the law, she should have been charged and brought up for possible impeachment.

The Caretaker Government , has done a reasonable job since its election to power, aside from the Amesty bill and backing the democractic principal, that all lawmakers should be elected. All of the other charges are based on issues not "proven" to have happened since the election of 2011.

There is nothing wrong with the rice program, it needs some adjustments, as most farming families children are going into other careers, there will be a great change in Thailand's role as a leading producer and exporter of rice.in the very near future, as farming childern are turning their backs on the family farm, the hard work and poor pay!

Cheers

A: completely disagree with your conclusion.

However I'll let that lie.

However, are you serious about nothing being wrong with the rice scheme? Paying way over the odds for the rice, trying to sell it on to the rest of the world at inflated prices, failing to do this and storing it in conditions that are so inept it has rotted, been infested with insects and in some cases is sprayed with bird shit, the Thai export industry has been crippled, the farmers aren't getting paid because there's no money from sales to pay them as there are so few sales happening, the BAAC is about to be bankrupted and asset stripped by PT to dredge up money before the next election, the farmers have been betrayed by PT over this scheme and its consequences.

Nothing wrong with it? There's nothing right with it.

[Old Man River]

On Suthep, most of us farangs would agree. Still, from his side, he knows that even if YL resigns, the next PM would be another family member etc. Hence, from his side there is no quit and no negotiations. We can talk about democracy all we want, but from Suthep's side, there needs to be reform first.

So it goes...

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

From a true Democracy perspective it doesn't matter who is in charge or who is MP, who they are related to or accused of. The only thing that democracy insists on is that when they are in power they work tirelessly for the benefit of the entire nation, and engage in open no-gloves debate. That is why post-election phase is the 'only game in town', post-election is the cake if you will, and why pre-election is just the light frosting ontop of the cake to give citizens a feeling that they are connected to State. Who wears the shiny PM hat is meaningless, as is the ruling party. The only thing that matters is that the parliamentary machine is highly tuned to force elected members to work hard, debate everything to consensus point, and to have an ironclad defense mechanism to stop unbalanced and abusive policies en-route through the debate and voting process. In Thailand the system allows politicians far too much room to push extreme agendas, and to stall processes. Parliament and other modules of high state need serious regulation here regarding process, that way it doesn't matter if parties have dynastic family leadership or whatever, it is irrelevant so long as rules on debate and bills are strictly enforced. The systems needs to filter out harmful and self-serving agendas and mark all action based on national benefit only. Imho this kind of functionalist & highly regulated parliament is the only hope to solve this endless spiral of coup/counter-coup.

In theory you are correct. However what we have here is one person(with several relatives), who has figured out how to use democratic principles to slowly dismantle normal checks and balances to set himself up into a Lee Kwan Yew type of control. Each time he changes the law, you say yes, it makes sense, but after awhile, you wonder how did we get here? Thaksin knows, but you didn't see it coming. The urban villagers are taken care of, nobody really cares about the farmers as they are now in the minority, so subsequent election victories are guaranteed.

The Urban Villagers remain, for the most parts, Royalists, so that is fine, but politically some family members and supporters (not necessarily Red Shirts), appear to not be happy with some PC's. Still, they combine to first get rid of Suthep et. and then see if they can settle their differences.

The question is, between family members and Urban Villagers, how to get rid of Suthep?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[kikoman]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months." as reported here. Clueless.

Yes. And how will this meet the protesters calls for change?

It does not matter what the protesters want!

What do you not understand about the "majority rules" principal in a democracy, Hold the election, let the majority voters of Thailand pick who is to lead the country, PTP or the Democrats, maybe some one else.

Then that party as the will of the majority began the process of electorial reform of all types of corruption, that of the rich buying their sons out of military service, the buying of jobs, the buying of University placement, along with vote buying, and rich buying political support!

Cheers

[Bluespunk]

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months."

Do they really think this is what the protestors want? How will this meet their demands for reform? Clueless.

"Thailands embattled government has offered to call off an election set for February 2 if protesters end their rallies and promise not to obstruct or boycott a new one within months." as reported here. Clueless.

Yes. And how will this meet the protesters calls for change?

It does not matter what the protesters want!

What do you not understand about the "majority rules" principal in a democracy, Hold the election, let the majority voters of Thailand pick who is to lead the country, PTP or the Democrats, maybe some one else.

Then that party as the will of the majority began the process of electorial reform of all types of corruption, that of the rich buying their sons out of military service, the buying of jobs, the buying of University placement, along with vote buying, and rich buying political support!

Cheers

I have repeatedly said I support elections, once in response to you I think (could be wrong, apologies if I am). I have also answered this same point three times now on this thread. I'm not going to do so again.

However I will say anyone who trusts PT promises should talk to the unpaid rice farmers.

Also why do those exercising their democratic right to protest not matter?

Edited January 26, 2014 by Bluespunk

[kikoman]

Bluespunk

A. The govt has said in the past on a number of occasions they will ignore the constitutional court. They have a history of threatening and putting pressure on judges to deliver PT verdicts.

B. I never said I don't support elections or think the protests will succeed.

C. I agree reform needs to come about after an election, though like the protesters I doubt PT will do it.

D. We all know who the amnesty bill was for. The DL wants back in.

A. "The status of the constitutional Court is very controversial" said Sunai Phasuk, a senior researcher with the New York based Human Rights Watch,

"It is a product of a coup in 2006 and acts mainly as a tribunal not a court of justice per se," he said, noting that the government had been "badly crippled" by its rulings."

The court is a product of the Military and the Rich elite old power base, well know outside of Thailand that it rulings always favor the elite's cause!

B. Great

C. The whole country wants political reform, after the election!

D. If in fact, Yingluck violated the law, she should have been charged and brought up for possible impeachment.

The Caretaker Government , has done a reasonable job since its election to power, aside from the Amesty bill and backing the democractic principal, that all lawmakers should be elected. All of the other charges are based on issues not "proven" to have happened since the election of 2011.

There is nothing wrong with the rice program, it needs some adjustments, as most farming families children are going into other careers, there will be a great change in Thailand's role as a leading producer and exporter of rice.in the very near future, as farming childern are turning their backs on the family farm, the hard work and poor pay!

Cheers

A: completely disagree with your conclusion.

However I'll let that lie.

However, are you serious about nothing being wrong with the rice scheme? Paying way over the odds for the rice, trying to sell it on to the rest of the world at inflated prices, failing to do this and storing it in conditions that are so inept it has rotted, been infested with insects and in some cases is sprayed with bird shit, the Thai export industry has been crippled, the farmers aren't getting paid because there's no money from sales to pay them as there are so few sales happening, the BAAC is about to be bankrupted and asset stripped by PT to dredge up money before the next election, the farmers have been betrayed by PT over this scheme and its consequences.

Nothing wrong with it? There's nothing right with it.

PTP is being pro-active in trying to keep Thailand as one of the chief rice producing, rice exporters countries in the international market scene. Thailand has held the top rice exporting country in the world for 31 years, they have done that off the backs of the Thai rice farmers, whom have been exploited financially for years.

As the bulk of the childern of rice farmers are going into other professions, because of the hard work, low return on their rice. The future of rice farming is questionable, as the present rice farmers aged, their childern not interested in following their parents in to farming.

PTP, realizes that and attempted to increase the profit margin for rice farmers, in hopes of keeping the childern on the farm.

Thailand as my home country could buy the rice crop, subsidize the profit of the farmers, as every other country does with their main agriculteral product!

Why is rice as you say rotting in the warehouses, is it because the rich are willing to take a loss to make the country believe their tales of woo. Why has the government not seen fit to distribute the exess rice to the needy in the country, as the US did in the 1970-80 with butter, powder milk and cheese,and many other countries in the world are doing.

Cheers

Edited January 26, 2014 by kikoman

[Gweiloman]

Do anyone really believe that all the corruption in the government is caused by the Shinawatras' controlling a mafia like group? Corruption is rampant throughout all levels of the government, commerce and society. Thaksin is not controlling that nor is Yingluck as a proxy. Whether Yingluck resigns from politics or not the PTP will be elected again and even with a new leader the corruption will go on. The corruption did not stop when Abhisit and his party were in power and will not stop whomever, of whatever political persuasion, is in power. Get real for a moment. Suthep has a history of corruption scandals so he is no different. Neither Yingluck nor Thaksin really need the money and I don't believe for a moment she is spending her days trying to figure out ways of stealing money through corruption. Sure Thaksin tried to manipulate some things to avoid taxes, etc. He did not get away with it, did he? I am sure to this day he regrets not paying the tax for the telecom sale and wishes that the land deal had not happened. Maybe too much greed.

I do believe that a lot of people a all levels of the government do spend time trying to figure out ways of earning a little extra. Greed is what drives a lot of people. The term Shin mafia has been used all too many times to describe the Shinawatra hold. It does not exist folks. If it did there would not be this mess. The corruption is too big at too many levels to control. That's the problem. Everyone is out to grab a piece of the pie and the Shinawatras' can't even begin to control it. Time to take a rest on the Shinawatras' controlling the massive corruption in the country. If indeed this was a mafia-like organization the country would be run quite well with the corrupt politicians taking a reasonable share and letting things function like a well oiled machine. It is not by any means controlled by the top down. That's the problem. Suthep tries to make the Shinawatras' look like a mafia run organization and has his supporters believing that if they are gone everything will be better. Everyone should know he is just as big a crook as any of the politicians.

Sorry to say it but Thais are part of the Asian culture where money is above all else. Mothers want children to marry well to bring the family money. It all starts at the basic family level. It just gets worse. The value system is different from the west and leads to money being all important. Thais are not in general charitable but are greedy. But that is a whole other topic. The point is that corruption will continue and it is just a matter of who will reap the benefits. Nothing changed under Abhisit, nothing will change under Suthep and his ilk.

This political situation is about who controls things. The talk about the amnesty bill which the PTP and Yingluck has backed away from have also been thrown out again as the timing for the election. What good would it do to have another election, bring up the amnesty bill and start the protests all over again? That in my mind is a dead issue. The PTP will move on. They tried and failed. They want to survive and will not bring that issue up again. Which is more important, getting Thaksin back or having the members of the PTP survive. Thaksin may be a focal point in the PTP but the members aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot either over the issue.

Yingluck has offered many times to consult with the opposition but Suthep says she must go first. That is not something she can negotiate on and backing her into a corner is not helping his cause. If he truly wants change then it has to be through negotiation. But what he really wants is Yingluck out, his council in, a change of the rules somehow to give the Democrats more power, none of which is under constitutional means. So how can his demands be realistic. If he wants to gain something he needs to come to the conference table and see what he can negotiate. He can't have it all.

Most accurate summation I have ever read on TV. Objective with no bias. Well done sir!

[Bluespunk]

Bluespunk

A. The govt has said in the past on a number of occasions they will ignore the constitutional court. They have a history of threatening and putting pressure on judges to deliver PT verdicts.

B. I never said I don't support elections or think the protests will succeed.

C. I agree reform needs to come about after an election, though like the protesters I doubt PT will do it.

D. We all know who the amnesty bill was for. The DL wants back in.

A. "The status of the constitutional Court is very controversial" said Sunai Phasuk, a senior researcher with the New York based Human Rights Watch,

"It is a product of a coup in 2006 and acts mainly as a tribunal not a court of justice per se," he said, noting that the government had been "badly crippled" by its rulings."

The court is a product of the Military and the Rich elite old power base, well know outside of Thailand that it rulings always favor the elite's cause!

B. Great

C. The whole country wants political reform, after the election!

D. If in fact, Yingluck violated the law, she should have been charged and brought up for possible impeachment.

The Caretaker Government , has done a reasonable job since its election to power, aside from the Amesty bill and backing the democractic principal, that all lawmakers should be elected. All of the other charges are based on issues not "proven" to have happened since the election of 2011.

There is nothing wrong with the rice program, it needs some adjustments, as most farming families children are going into other careers, there will be a great change in Thailand's role as a leading producer and exporter of rice.in the very near future, as farming childern are turning their backs on the family farm, the hard work and poor pay!

Cheers

A: completely disagree with your conclusion.

However I'll let that lie.

However, are you serious about nothing being wrong with the rice scheme? Paying way over the odds for the rice, trying to sell it on to the rest of the world at inflated prices, failing to do this and storing it in conditions that are so inept it has rotted, been infested with insects and in some cases is sprayed with bird shit, the Thai export industry has been crippled, the farmers aren't getting paid because there's no money from sales to pay them as there are so few sales happening, the BAAC is about to be bankrupted and asset stripped by PT to dredge up money before the next election, the farmers have been betrayed by PT over this scheme and its consequences.

Nothing wrong with it? There's nothing right with it.

PTP is being pro-active in trying to keep Thailand as one of the chief rice producing, rice exporters countries in the international market scene. Thailand has held the top rice exporting country in the world for 31 years, they have done that off the backs of the Thai rice farmers, whom have been exploited financially for years.

As the bulk of the childern of rice farmers are going into other professions, because of the hard work, low return on their rice. The future of rice farming is questionable, as the present rice farmers aged, their childern not interested in following their parents in to farming.

PTP, realizes that and attempted to increase the profit margin for rice farmers, in hopes of keeping the childern on the farm.

Thailand as my home country could buy the rice crop, subsidize the profit of the farmers, as every other country does with their main agriculteral product!

Why is rice as you say rotting in the warehouses, is it because the rich are willing to take a loss to make the country believe their tales of woo. Why has the government not seen fit to distribute the exess rice to the needy in the country, as the US did in the 1970-80 with butter, powder milk and cheese,and many other countries in the world are doing.

Cheers

Are you for real? Thailand is no longer the top exporter of rice they have been passed by several countries not hamstrung by a ludicrous rice policy. The scheme has utterly failed. I do agree that the farmers deserve better treatment by those who rule and should be allowed to seek a better future for their children. However the scheme's failure has betrayed those who supported PT by destroying their industry and leaving them in debt due to PT's failure to pay them since October. Edited January 26, 2014 by Bluespunk

[mikemac]

There is simply no end to the demands from these anti-democratic goons. The PM has offered talks , time after time after time...but still they want more. No...for Thailand's sake, just give it up

This idiotic comment proved one thing to me, that the writer could not give a rat's ass about this country or it's people.

Not sure what his agenda is, either a clueless red supporter or just another bored and pathetic troll.

No...for Thailand's sake, just give it up

????? Just give it up and leave it to the mercy of the cruel and heartless Shin regime ? Little wonder stupid comments like this attract so much flak from the good people who actually do care about Thailand's welfare and future.

Give it up and find another hobby you morons.