My two dogs have become very aggressive - Advice Please

[ThaiLife]

We have two bitches that we have had from puppies , that are sisters and recently they have started to become very aggressive which now results in them both furiously attacking each other and drawing blood . As guard dogs they both permanently live out side within our walled garden property and have never been allowed into our house or out into the Soi , This current aggressive behavior seems to be easily triggered when my wife or my self are in close proximity to any one of the dogs , this aggressive behavior is only between them both and is not directed at my wife or my self. If my wife or my self are outside in our garden for any reason and either of us pays the slightest attention to any one dog , the other dog starts to growl and lunges at the other dog receiving the attention and vicious fighting ensues . The only factor I can think of that is slightly different with the dogs is that it seems that one of them is on heat . At night time when both dogs freely roam the garden area alone , so far there's been no fighting or sounds of growling . I'm not too sure what's actually going with the two dogs or why this current behavior has suddenly appeared but more importantly how I can return things back to the once normal tranquil state . Any thoughts or suggestions welcome .

The two dogs and Pinky in the middle , this photo was taken some years ago and both dogs in question are now considerably larger .

[Saan]

It would certainly worth speying them as it may well modify their aggression. Even if it doesn't your ahead as when they come into season you won't have an annoying pack of suitors at your gate.

[Suradit69]

They need to be spayed. And they need exercise beyond just walking around you compound at night (and being tied up or confined during the day?). Both things contribute to frustration with dogs that leads to aggression.

Aggression in female dogs during their heat is a common complaint. Drastic hormone changes can adversely affect a female dog’s mood and can predispose to acts of aggression even if she has never been aggressive before. These hormone changes cause irritability, nervousness and can even cause pain during ovulation. Keep in mind that instead of going into heat for a few days a month a female dog goes into heat for a few weeks twice a year which is a considerable length of time. If your dog is getting too hot to handle while in heat be sure to take the necessary precautions.

Read more: http://www.cesarsway.com/askthevet/doghealth/Heat-and-Aggression#ixzz2rqE58FKI

[DiamondKing]

They both consider you their property and they own you sounds like you need to start taking them for walks and exercising them and also when the other one starts growling you need to correct her immediately before it kicks off

My dogs only have to hear me say Shhhh and they stop immediately what they are doing but prior to getting them to that point I would correct them many times.

In your case you are letting them get into red zone and at that point it way too late. The moment you see a sign you need to snap them out of it immediately.

good luck

[Cylon]

Why do people in Thailand have to put clothes on poor dogs,who are hot already.Id be getting aggressive too.

[ktab27]

They need to be spayed. And they need exercise beyond just walking around you compound at night (and being tied up or confined during the day?). Both things contribute to frustration with dogs that leads to aggression.

Aggression in female dogs during their heat is a common complaint. Drastic hormone changes can adversely affect a female dog’s mood and can predispose to acts of aggression even if she has never been aggressive before. These hormone changes cause irritability, nervousness and can even cause pain during ovulation. Keep in mind that instead of going into heat for a few days a month a female dog goes into heat for a few weeks twice a year which is a considerable length of time. If your dog is getting too hot to handle while in heat be sure to take the necessary precautions.

Read more: http://www.cesarsway.com/askthevet/doghealth/Heat-and-Aggression#ixzz2rqE58FKI

Suradit69 is on the money, and the hyperlink to the Cesarway site, I think is your key. If you read the short piece offered there, the last paragraph is key to your success, "please seek professional advice from your veterinarian and an animal behaviorist or certified professional dog trainer as soon as possible." I've had dogs all my life, and need them integrated into my life and business environment. When I've encountered a problem that I don't understand, I've brought in a dog trainer/behaviorist and he/she has solved the issue quickly and simply. Usually I'm the one that has to learn something about how to deal with and understand the dog(s).

Read more: http://www.cesarsway.com/askthevet/doghealth/Heat-and-Aggression#ixzz2rqQ2DYgq

[Pops]

Call Cesar Milan !

[Toscano]

The way you dress your dogs up is an indication of the sort of soppy owner you are . In Thailand some dogs need clipping in the heat , but dogs do not need clothing to keep them warm in cooler weather . Dogs need a lot of exercise , being tied up in your yard must be very frustrating for them . In a city

environment surely one little dog is enough . My first reaction to your problem of their aggressiveness was , have them put down . I guess you think you

are dog lovers , but in reality you are probably like most Thais , who haven't got a clue about dogs or any animals .

[dotx]

Animals that are not spayed/neutered will eventually start to fight with each other. It doesn't necessarily mean that spaying them will completely stop the behavior but it will help A LOT. I have two males that started going at each other about the time dog #2 became a teenager (around 14 months or so). It was really, really bad because dog #2 is huge (37 kg) and could do some serious damage if he gets hold of dog #1 (14 kg).

They both got neutered at that point. Keep in mind that it takes months (up to a year) for hormones to "calm down" after the surgery, so results won't be immediate. I spent about a year after that training the dogs, learning how to avoid triggers that would start fights and just basically rearranging things so they could coexist. That was about two years ago and things are mostly ok now. They do have all-out barking "moments" a couple of times a week, but they don't touch each other. It's mostly dog #2 reacting to something (like hyperactive dog #1 running up and down the room too many times and annoying the heck out of everybody). The barking lasts maybe 20-30 seconds and then it's over and things are back to normal.

I don't think I can do anything about that and I can mostly live with it because there's no actual fighting and nobody gets hurt.

So yeah, surgery first.

I have to say that tying up the dogs is going to make things worse, though. That means they can't burn off excess energy and they're going to be even more upset once a fight starts.

[belg]

watch some videos of CESAR MILAN on youtube

[tigergrl]

agree with the above advice... spay them. then they need exercise and attention from you daily. dogs have needs beyond just food and a yard to roam in, they need exercise, attention, and boundaries. what do you do when they growl? you need to step in and let them know it's not acceptable behavior. by voice, or touch.. but not hitting. and you must provide them with exercise, attention and boundaries. watch Cesar Milan. cute dogs btw.

[Tywais]

Off topic and unhelpful post removed.

[Jasun]

Yup, obviously a jealousy issue. Treat them as equal as possible. For example, never dress one a T-shirt from Prada an the other in a T-shirt from Makro.

[tigergrl]

NatGeoWild channel on youtube has many full episodes of Cesar Milan.. excellent vids for dog people

[Beetlejuice]

This behaviour is common among sibling dogs once they reach adulthood that live together and are sharing the same facilities. This is nature`s way of telling the dogs to go their own separate ways, as they would in the wild, but does not happen in all cases.

The reason why the dogs begin to fight when the OP or his wife begin approaching the dogs is because they become jealous and are competing for the owners attentions. Cannot understand why the OP does not allow the dogs into the home and ask; how much space is available for them to roam about in the walled compound? Because if their living area is small, this would not help the situation.

Usually it is only one dog that becomes aggressive and will not tolerate the other dog. There is very little that can be done to stop this and it will continue. The only solutions is to either find another home for one of the dogs or try to keep them separated on the property, especially at feeding time, as unfortunately there are no other solutions to the problem.

[Notable]

Show them some pictures of Laos and a frying pan, they'll soon calm down.

[WildChilli]

Watch Cesar the dog whisper on YouTube

Used same and similar ways to train my dog

From a stray dog that was aggressive towards

Other dogs and dark colored people

To a perfect family dog that with hand signals would follow commands without words

It would certainly worth speying them as it may well modify their aggression. Even if it doesn't your ahead as when they come into season you won't have an annoying pack of suitors at your gate.

[robertson468]

This behaviour is common among sibling dogs once they reach adulthood that live together and are sharing the same facilities. This is nature`s way of telling the dogs to go their own separate ways, as they would in the wild, but does not happen in all cases.

The reason why the dogs begin to fight when the OP or his wife begin approaching the dogs is because they become jealous and are competing for the owners attentions. Cannot understand why the OP does not allow the dogs into the home and ask; how much space is available for them to roam about in the walled compound? Because if their living area is small, this would not help the situation.

Usually it is only one dog that becomes aggressive and will not tolerate the other dog. There is very little that can be done to stop this and it will continue. The only solutions is to either find another home for one of the dogs or try to keep them separated on the property, especially at feeding time, as unfortunately there are no other solutions to the problem.

Sorry to say Beetlejuice, I completely disagree with your advice here. The solution, as has been mentioned by many others is EXERCISE, BECOME THE PACK LEADER, neuter them and don't treat them like surrogate children - they are dogs and will get confused if you "babyfy" them. Ceaser Milan's videos are also excellent sources of training for YOU. Good luck and don't expect things to change overnight, but start NOW with the exercise regime, as it sounds like your poor pooches are climbing up the wall with frustration. I have two males, a Great Dane, a Labrador and a female mix. We never have a problem, because the humans are tought to be boss and we all exercise well every day.

[Rorri]

Dogs are dogs, you need to treat as such, and understand that they are pack animals, with a pack nature. In this case one dog will normally be the "alpha" (dominant) bitch she will normal try and be closer to the pack leaders, this MUST be you and your family, if the other dog tries to take her place this will lead to fighting. Be aware that with dogs, if two males fight one will normally submit and the fight is over, two females on the other hand tend to fight more aggressively, often to the death. First, splay both, secondly, take control, be the master at ALL times, thirdly, train them in obedience, fourthly, get them out of the yard and socialise them with your neighbours and their dogs last but not least, GET THEM OUT OF HUMAN CLOTHES.

[mikebell]

Just what Thailand needs - two more noisy aggressive dogs. It never ceases to amaze me that owners (Thai) allow dogs to roam in restaurants & bars. I love about-turning from any premises that allows this unhygienic practice.

[ThaiLife]

A big thanks to every one with constructive advice , its appreciated

The photograph showing the two dogs was taken years ago when my young daughter kept putting old tee shirts on them when out playing and any dressing up was stopped long ago. The photo showing both of them chained up was a one time thing just to keep them together for a photo , they are never chained, but free to roam around our very large garden plot .

So after reading the comments so far , it seem that my best option my be

1. Have both dogs spayed
2. Increase their exercise
3. Immediately correct the aggressive dog
4. Treat them both as equal
5. Make sure any food that is given is placed in different areas and not too close to each other.
6. Make more of an effort to become their pack leader
7. Increase training in obedience

8. Watch the dog whisper on YouTube

I forgot to add to my original post when the two dogs were a lot younger we use to let them have a free run about on our land at the rear of our house , they seems to enjoy this but that was curtailed when the Brown and White dog presented us with a litter of five puppies ( which we found homes for ) This Brown and White dog seems to be it instigator of the fighting , not sure if this is in any way relevant .

I now feel that my self and my wife have made some mistakes in trying to manage our two '' guard '' dogs , and I'm hoping its not too late to try and rectify our mistakes

Never having a dog spayed before , can any one tell me how long after the operation would it be safe to let the spayed dog come into contact with other dogs .

[brucegoniners]

Have them fixed for gods sakes! And don't show affection to one in front of the other.

[Tywais]

One post removed - violent solutions are not welcomed.

[Dogbreath]

I am a dog behaviorist and use Cesar Milan's methods to deal with dog problems. PM me if you want help.

[pacovl46]

It's pretty simple really, the problem is you guys. You didn't stop that behavior when it first started out with maybe growling and then it escalated into what it is now. The only way to solve this is by changing your energy level and to teach the dogs that their behavior is no longer tolerated and that there will be consequences if they freak out. Probably problem number 1 is that the dogs see themselves above you in the pecking order. This means that the dogs see you as their possession which they will jealously protect from each other. Problem number 2 is that you kind of expect them to have a go at each other by now and they can sense that. Dogs see things like being anxious, nervous, exited or yelling as weakness. So, whenever they feel you getting tense they will start attacking each other because they're tense, too, and they literally feed of your energy and each others energy.

In regards to how to solve it I recommend this: Take one dog on your lap and then have your partner come closer with the other one. It will definitely help if you bring the other dog closer with its ass first. I know it sounds funny, but dogs greet each other by sniffing each others' behinds, so from their point of view ass first is way less confrontational. As soon as one of them starts freaking out you say no with a sharp voice and you put the dog down on the ground immediately. It probably won't like it and be confused a bit, but that's alright. After the dog has settled down you try it again. This might take quite a few tries, but eventually the dog will realize that you don't want it to react aggressively when the other dog comes close. You might want to focus on the dog that usually freaks out first because that one is the instigator, the other one only reacts to the energy of the other. The biggest thing is your energy level, though. If you're all excited and nervous this isn't gonna work. You gotta be calm and assertive because as I said before, they sense your energy level. If you're excited and nervous then so will they be. If you're the personified calmness then they'll be calm, too. The key is to be consistent, calm and assertive and they will soon be lying right next to each other on top of you. I know it sounds crazy, but it's quite possible that this problem will be history after 20-30 minutes if they get it right away. If your dogs are too big to be sitting on your lap you can push him away from you or walk away from it.

By the way, when you want to break up a dog fight or correct a dog you have to match their energy level! That's very important. If they're in the red zone you probably will have to resort to imitating a bite. The way to do that is to jab them in the neck with your hand slightly open (open your hand and then bring your thumb and fingers together until your index finger and thumb are about 2 inches apart, for smaller dogs 1 inch will be enough). It's not really meant to hurt, though. It will startle them because they're completely focused on the other dog and the sudden touch out of nowhere will snap them out of it.

There might be a second option. You could use positive reinforcement. Take either some small sized dog snacks or dog food pebbles and have your dog sit down in front of you outside. Preferable would be a place where the other guy can walk around the corner because then he will be able to get out of sight which will calm your dog down. Then have your partner come around the corner and walk towards you. As soon as your dog starts growling you give him a snack. The other guy needs to stop then and go back behind the corner as soon as your dog starts to freak out. You should also keep some distance from the corner so you're dog won't go from 0-100 right away when he sees the other dog because once it's in the red zone it will most likely not take your treats. So you gotta keep him below the red zone. Do the around the corner thing from a safe distance until your dog doesn't freak out anymore as soon as he sees the other dog. Then have the other dog come gradually closer until he can finally walk past you. That way you will gradually desensitize the dog and it will connect the presence of the other dog with getting a snack which is of course something positive from its point of view. This might take anywhere from 20-30 minutes to a few weeks, but eventually it will get it. Important are also daily pack walks. Walk them together on a leash with one dog on your left and your right respectively. This will improve their sense of being a pack rather than 2 individuals in the same household. If they don't behave have someone else take the other dog first and keep them at a safe distance from each other when you walk them. As soon as they make trouble you have to correct their behavior immediately. Also, never stop, just keep walking because they can't really fight while they walk. After a while they'll realize it's much less of a hassle to just do what you want them to do than making a fuss with each other. Then one person can take both dogs and see how this goes. As long as you stay calm and assertive and mot importantly consistent with it they'll get it. Don't give up! ;-)

Edited January 30, 2014 by pacovl46

[Rorri]

A big thanks to every one with constructive advice , its appreciated

The photograph showing the two dogs was taken years ago when my young daughter kept putting old tee shirts on them when out playing and any dressing up was stopped long ago. The photo showing both of them chained up was a one time thing just to keep them together for a photo , they are never chained, but free to roam around our very large garden plot .

So after reading the comments so far , it seem that my best option my be

1. Have both dogs spayed

2. Increase their exercise

3. Immediately correct the aggressive dog

4. Treat them both as equal

5. Make sure any food that is given is placed in different areas and not too close to each other.

6. Make more of an effort to become their pack leader

7. Increase training in obedience

8. Watch the dog whisper on YouTube

I forgot to add to my original post when the two dogs were a lot younger we use to let them have a free run about on our land at the rear of our house , they seems to enjoy this but that was curtailed when the Brown and White dog presented us with a litter of five puppies ( which we found homes for ) This Brown and White dog seems to be it instigator of the fighting , not sure if this is in any way relevant .

I now feel that my self and my wife have made some mistakes in trying to manage our two '' guard '' dogs , and I'm hoping its not too late to try and rectify our mistakes

Never having a dog spayed before , can any one tell me how long after the operation would it be safe to let the spayed dog come into contact with other dogs .

Dogs will naturally protect their pack, no training required. In a pack they are no "equals" one is ALWAYS more dominant, your dogs know this and will accept it. Most fighting between dogs is to establish their pack order. as for the Dog whisperer, yeah he knows his stuff, but you will not really learn by watching you tube. If it was that easy Cesar Millan would be out of work.

[watso63]

Remember dogs are pack animals and they need an alpha male and female, maybe the 2 bitches are fighting to be the female. Choose which one you prefer and always feed first and dominate over the other one by making it submit by laying on its back and keeping its head down. You have to spend time with them. Use food tit bits to reward good behaviour and lead train them outside the home. Leaving dogs outside to guard property is easy, but be careful with visitors...especially children.

[BrooklynNY]

They are not spayed. You should have spayed them before they reach one year of age which would help reduce friction between them better than spaying them after they already reached their maturity. Now both dogs try to establish ranking that why they fight.

You have to take both of them to be spayed at the same time. DO NOT spay one after another because that may create an ongoing friction. As long as both of them are spayed at the same time, they will smell equally the same, but not one still smells like a bitch in heat.

[sunsandsurf]

Download "The Dog Whisperer" series.

[bina]

forget the dog whisperer etc:

mostly: in heat they are having hormone moments; they are beocming more territorial and anyway females are more territorial then males in small areas (home based territoty as opposed to wandering territory)

dogs are not pack animals they are group animals and change their behavior to fit the moment and the group: so

MORE EXCERCISE INDIVIDUALLY AND TOGETHER: TAKE THEM ON ONE LONG WALK TOGETHER ON LEASHES (BE PREPARED TO SIT THEM DOWN OR STOP WHEN THEY QUIBBLE WHEN TOGEHER ON LEASH) sorry for caps:

feed at separate food stations or stand while they eat and make sure both eat. remove food when finished. have two separate water areas.

play with each one indivicually somehwere else.

remprimand the start of a fight immediately if its seems to be something major (eventually one will be the more dominant again, and the other will give in again).

its not jealousy its possessiveness.

my lhasas ahve the same problem now that puma the 6 month old is starting to be 'male'... foofoo guards me. so i lay down rules. when we are on the sofa, all the dogs can be with us, no fighting allowed or the fighter gets thrown off the sofa to his bed.

they get one walk that is long and fast (they follow me on lead with one dog off lead each time); and several smaller walks plus each one gets some getaway free time outside off lead.

havent a clue what goes on when im not around but neighbors say the squabbles have toned down in sound and fury...

when hubby is around there is no squabbling whatsoever.

puma has learned to ask permission from the two older dogs before he approaches food or bones, so has learned his place in life for the moment. he will be neutered before he bcomes a terrible teenager male but is already marking areas outside the house.

forgot to say: dont yell and move around a lot when reprimanding the fight; just be assertive, move in on them at once, with commands (bed/place/getaway/off or whatever u use)... and then IMMEDIATELY divert attention to some other actions...a bit of sit/stay or down or up (we have foofoo jump up on a chair and move the others by command to their 'own' areas.

good luck