Norwegian lawmakers nominate Snowden for Nobel Peace Prize

[Exsexyman]

I hope Snowden will be nominated. at least he is more deserving for Nobel Prize than Obama

It isn't about Obama. Of course he didn't deserve it. But at least Obama is not a traitor.

The irony of him hanging out in Putin's Russia is just too rich.

How fast would Putin dispose of a Russian traitor?

please stick to the Snowden and Nobel prize. If you want to discuss Putin and Russia pleas open new theme

Congratulations on your appointment as Moderator!

[F430murci]

Entertaining article on past nominees for Nobel peace prize and who nominated Snowden.

Snowden was clearly working with FSB well before he left US. I have no hard feelings toward the guy and respect the Russians because they pulled off a good one. Putin and FSB are the best at espionage because they are sneaky little bastards that, unlike US, don't care what anyone else thinks.

Those of you worshipping Snowden and believing he is a hero are just the sort of masses that Putin and FSB counted on being able to manipulate to cloud the issues, cause an uproar and conceal the true motivation here.

I honestly cannot believe some of you paranoid conspiracy theory types did not realize that emails, computer and telephone databases where tagged with key word searches. This has been known for years.

There was also an article just this week about UK data collection that was more invasive than US data collection. All countries are doing this, some without the controls US has in place.

Alas, this is just another one if those issue that paranoids and those with resentments toward the US can feed their own potential dysfunction and get more angry. Putin and the FSB counted on you!

---------

This year, it was two predictable and bog-standard Norwegian lefties named Baard Vegar Solhjell and Snorre Valen, both members of parliament from the Socialist Left (SV) party, who nominated Snowden. Incidentally, Solhjell and Valen represent the seventh largest party in the country, which managed a paltry 4 percent of the vote in the last parliamentary elections. So who cares that two random Norwegian radicals are fans of Edward Snowden and not particularly fond of the Obama administration's foreign policy? Apparently everyone in the American media.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/30/nobel-nomination-nonsense.html

Edited January 30, 2014 by F430murci

[WitawatWatawit]

"And while they indicated they may not agree with all of Snowden's disclosures, they argued that the former National Security Agency (NSA) contractor has made important contributions to a more stable and peaceful world.

"Edward Snowden has revealed the nature and technological prowess of modern surveillance. The level of sophistication and depth of surveillance that citizens all over the world are subject to has stunned us, and stirred debate all over the world," the lawmakers said in their letter. "By doing this, he has contributed critical knowledge about how modern surveillance and intelligence directed towards states and citizens is carried out."

I'm struggling to understand where "peace" comes into this. Where is his "contribution"? It is supposed to be awarded "to those who have "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses." I can't see what he has done is in any way synologous with those ideals.

[rgs2001uk]

I consider him a traitor. Simples.

one man's traitor is another man's hero

analog

one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Paul Revere, hero or traitor?

God bless Snowden.

[sirineou]

Snowden for Nobel Peace Prize

he's got my vote

[jimbo58]

I consider him a traitor. Simples.

I agree, a traitor, and it's ironic he's holed up in Russia. NSA & GCHQ have been protecting their citizens from terrorism for decades, and also from governments that we would consider at the very least have worked against our interests. They may have overstepped the mark in surveillance against friendly governments, but honest law abiding citizens have nothing to fear from their ability to monitor our comms.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[balo]

Relax it will never happen. Perhaps Snowden is one of many candidates but I can assure you that the Nobel committee will not choose a traitor.

[Jingthing]

Relax it will never happen. Perhaps Snowden is one of many candidates but I can assure you that the Nobel committee will not choose a traitor.

We'll see about that.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303519404579350481345357224

Mr. Snowden and his allies are not conscious Russian agents. But history gives plenty of examples of indirect Kremlin involvement in Western political movements. Like the anti-nuclear movement of the early 1980s, Snowdenistas see their own countries' flaws with blinding clarity and ignore those of the repressive regimes elsewhere.

Far too little attention has been paid to the political agendas of people such as the bombastic Brazil-based blogger Glenn Greenwald, the hysterical hacktivist Jacob Appelbaum and the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, who cloak their extreme and muddled beliefs in the language of rights, liberties and justice. Their actions are bringing about the greatest peacetime defeat in the history of the West. That is not a noble crusade. It is sabotage and treason.

[7by7]

From a UK perspective.

Three of the perpetrators of the London suicide bombings of 7th July 2005 were British citizens, the fourth a Jamaican born UK resident.

One of the killers of Lee Rigby is a British citizen, the other a Nigerian born UK resident.

After both atrocities there was an outcry because the police and/or security forces had not known of their intentions.

Without the type of electronic surveillance some members here complain about, finding out about these people before they commit their crimes would be impossible.

It didn't work in the above two examples, but even The Guardian admits that it has worked in other cases. Police foil 'Mumbai-style' terrorist plot in London, say security sources.

Before Snowden, nobody but a fool would have thought such surveillance wasn't happening. But Snowden has released details which can do nothing but help terrorists in their activities.

That anyone considers him worthy of this prize beggars belief.

[sirineou]

From a UK perspective.

Three of the perpetrators of the London suicide bombings of 7th July 2005 were British citizens, the fourth a Jamaican born UK resident.

One of the killers of Lee Rigby is a British citizen, the other a Nigerian born UK resident.

After both atrocities there was an outcry because the police and/or security forces had not known of their intentions.

Without the type of electronic surveillance some members here complain about, finding out about these people before they commit their crimes would be impossible.

It didn't work in the above two examples, but even The Guardian admits that it has worked in other cases. Police foil 'Mumbai-style' terrorist plot in London, say security sources.

Before Snowden, nobody but a fool would have thought such surveillance wasn't happening. But Snowden has released details which can do nothing but help terrorists in their activities.

That anyone considers him worthy of this prize beggars belief.

"Before Snowden, nobody but a fool would have thought such surveillance wasn't happening."

Yes we were foolish enough to think that our government respected our constitutional rights.

In the past Many people have died in the pursue of liberty

all of a sudden there those who believe that preventing a couple of deaths is reason enough to give liberty up.

I wonder who the fools are? or for that mater who are the traitors?

[7by7]

Many years ago I lived in an area where there was a spate of burglaries.

I was walking home at about 2am when I was stopped by the police who asked me what I was doing and if I had any ID.

An unacceptable breach of my rights and my liberty, or a sensible course of action given the circumstances?

I thought then, and still do, that it was the latter.

People seem to think that every email, every SMS etc. they send or receive is being read and recorded by a real person who then has a laugh about the contents with his mates in the pub after work. It's not like that. Of the millions that are electronically scanned, only the very few containing the searched for key words or phrases in the right order are ever looked at by an actual person.

Burke never actually said it, but the misquote is true;

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.

I think that, despite their faults, the governments and security forces of the US, UK and their allies are the good men, the terrorists and those, like Snowden, who aid them are the evil ones.

You and those who agree with you seem to hold the opposite view.

Edited January 31, 2014 by 7by7

[7by7]

In the past Many people have died in the pursue of liberty

all of a sudden there those who believe that preventing a couple of deaths is reason enough to give liberty up.

I wonder who the fools are? or for that mater who are the traitors?

A couple of deaths!

I wonder the families of the 3000 plus who died in the attacks of 11th September 2001, if the families of the 52 who died in the London bombings of 7th July 2005 would have been prepared to give up this small aspect of their liberty if it meant those deaths had been prevented.

Whilst we know of some possible atrocities which have been prevented by such measures, we will, of course, never know how many deaths they have prevented; how many innocent lives have been saved.

[Steely Dan]

Many years ago I lived in an area where there was a spate of burglaries.

I was walking home at about 2am when I was stopped by the police who asked me what I was doing and if I had any ID.

An unacceptable breach of my rights and my liberty, or a sensible course of action given the circumstances?

I thought then, and still do, that it was the latter.

People seem to think that every email, every SMS etc. they send or receive is being read and recorded by a real person who then has a laugh about the contents with his mates in the pub after work. It's not like that. Of the millions that are electronically scanned, only the very few containing the searched for key words or phrases in the right order are ever looked at by an actual person.

Burke never actually said it, but the misquote is true;

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.

I think that, despite their faults, the governments and security forces of the US, UK and their allies are the good men, the terrorists and those, like Snowden, who aid them are the evil ones.

You and those who agree with you seem to hold the opposite view.

I agree, has your password been hacked?

[sirineou]

In the past Many people have died in the pursue of liberty

all of a sudden there those who believe that preventing a couple of deaths is reason enough to give liberty up.

I wonder who the fools are? or for that mater who are the traitors?

A couple of deaths!

I wonder the families of the 3000 plus who died in the attacks of 11th September 2001, if the families of the 52 who died in the London bombings of 7th July 2005 would have been prepared to give up this small aspect of their liberty if it meant those deaths had been prevented.

Whilst we know of some possible atrocities which have been prevented by such measures, we will, of course, never know how many deaths they have prevented; how many innocent lives have been saved.

Over the Years Millions have given up their lives to preserve our liberty

According to the experts The NSA wiretapping did little to prevent terrorist attacks

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-phone-record-collection-does-little-to-prevent-terrorist-attacks-group-says/2014/01/12/8aa860aa-77dd-11e3-8963-b4b654bcc9b2_story.html

But you know what they say about a fool and his money, I guess the same applies to his liberty.

[7by7]

Steely Dan; my password has not, to my knowledge, been hacked.

As I have said to you many, many times, pointing out that the majority of Muslims are not terrorists or extremists and do not support terrorists or extremists is not the same as supporting terrorists and extremists myself.

Edited to make it clear to whom the post is addressed.

Edited January 31, 2014 by 7by7

[sirineou]

Burke never actually said it, but the misquote is true;

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.

I think that, despite their faults, the governments and security forces of the US, UK and their allies are the good men, the terrorists and those, like Snowden, who aid them are the evil ones.

You and those who agree with you seem to hold the opposite view.

And yet you are willing to do nothing and let evil take away your liberty

I am glad you trust the government so much, I mean I't not like they lied to as before

[7by7]

Sireneou, please explain how a computer somewhere scanning my emails etc. for certain keywords and phrases and then discarding them when nothing is found has deprived me of my liberty.

The same 'deprivation of liberty' and 'invasion of privacy' arguments are used by some about CCTV; but I feel a lot safer walking down a street covered by CCTV knowing the chances of my being mugged have been significantly reduced.

The freedom to walk down that street safely means more to me than any possible invasion of privacy due to my journey being on CCTV.

These monitoring measures have not prevented all attacks, but have prevented some. Even if they save just one life, I think it's a small price to pay.

Another quote often misattributed, this time to Thomas Jefferson:

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.

You obviously disagree.

[sirineou]

Sireneou, please explain how a computer somewhere scanning my emails etc. for certain keywords and phrases and then discarding them when nothing is found has deprived me of my liberty.

Here is a quick one

How about information collected on people that oppose the NCS and it's agenda. How do you know they would not use such information against them???

How do you know they have not already none so?

I wonder why Mr Clapper is not persecuted for perjuring him self in front of Congress.???

Typo edit

Edited January 31, 2014 by sirineou

[7by7]

Getting a bit paranoid, aren't you. Anything to hide? Expecting the knock on your door?

Whether or not Clapper perjured himself is open to debate; even Snowden's most ardent supporter in the UK, The Guardian newspaper, accepts that.

You want Clapper prosecuted for perjury, yet you want to give Snowden, a man who betrayed his and your country and in so doing has possibly put many lives at risk, the Nobel peace prize!

[sirineou]

Getting a bit paranoid, aren't you. Anything to hide? Expecting the knock on your door?

Whether or not Clapper perjured himself is open to debate; even Snowden's most ardent supporter in the UK, The Guardian newspaper, accepts that.

You want Clapper prosecuted for perjury, yet you want to give Snowden, a man who betrayed his and your country and in so doing has possibly put many lives at risk, the Nobel peace prize!

plenty to hide, My life is not as simple as yours.

even Paranoids have real enemies

Why do we even need a legal system when we have The Guardian?

[7by7]

As I have nothing to hide then just like the millions of others who also have nothing to hide, I have nothing to fear.

Unlike you, it seems.

[sirineou]

As I have nothing to hide then just like the millions of others who also have nothing to hide, I have nothing to fear.

Unlike you, it seems.

You are being a little presumptuous in thinking that because your life is so simple with nothing to hide, The vast majority of people are just like you.

and I am afraid a little disingenuous

Most people have lives , part of which is private and part of which is public.

Information is Power, Information of you, is power over you,

If you cant understand that, then what else is there to talk about?

we are just simply wasting ink.

[folium]

Not sure why everyone is getting so excited about this nomination. There are a total of some 270 nominees this year and Snowden's entry courtesy of some Scandi lefty, who wants to wind up the Americans, is all too teenage for words.

There is a rumour that Putin has also been nominated, but as some toady also proposed Stalin back in the 1930's, it seems that there is previous form in having dictatorial monsters as nominees.

[Jingthing]

Well, that's a good point, but it seems to me it's not impossible that he will actually win it.

[folium]

Well, that's a good point, but it seems to me it's not impossible that he will actually win it.

Perhaps if George W was still President....!

Personally I would like to see the three female human rights activists from Russia win ( nicely coinciding with the Winter Olympics), but the likely favourite is Mulala after her speech to the UN.

[7by7]

As I have nothing to hide then just like the millions of others who also have nothing to hide, I have nothing to fear.

Unlike you, it seems.

You are being a little presumptuous in thinking that because your life is so simple with nothing to hide, The vast majority of people are just like you.

and I am afraid a little disingenuous

Most people have lives , part of which is private and part of which is public.

Information is Power, Information of you, is power over you,

If you cant understand that, then what else is there to talk about?

we are just simply wasting ink.

As my private life contains nothing illegal or detrimental to the security of the UK or any other nation, then I do have nothing to hide; and I am sure most people are the same, even if you're not.

If for some reason the government wanted to lock me up, then I fail to see how reading my emails and SMS and monitoring my phone calls would help them; all they'd find out is things like I have a dentist appointment next week or my boss wants me to meet him in a certain place for work or my cars ready for collection after it's service and MoT!

None of which threatens the security of the UK. (Although as my dentist is a Muslim, there are members here who may think otherwise!)

[sirineou]

As I have nothing to hide then just like the millions of others who also have nothing to hide, I have nothing to fear.

Unlike you, it seems.

You are being a little presumptuous in thinking that because your life is so simple with nothing to hide, The vast majority of people are just like you.

and I am afraid a little disingenuous

Most people have lives , part of which is private and part of which is public.

Information is Power, Information of you, is power over you,

If you cant understand that, then what else is there to talk about?

we are just simply wasting ink.

As my private life contains nothing illegal or detrimental to the security of the UK or any other nation, then I do have nothing to hide; and I am sure most people are the same, even if you're not.

If for some reason the government wanted to lock me up, then I fail to see how reading my emails and SMS and monitoring my phone calls would help them; all they'd find out is things like I have a dentist appointment next week or my boss wants me to meet him in a certain place for work or my cars ready for collection after it's service and MoT!

None of which threatens the security of the UK. (Although as my dentist is a Muslim, there are members here who may think otherwise!)

Not all information desired private is illegal,

some is embarrassing and you might not want public,, other information reveals weakness you might not want to reveal, other pertains strategy you might not want others to know in advance,and some information is proprietary.

I don't mean disrespect to you, but your view on the subject is very simplistic.

[7by7]

Not all information desired private is illegal,

some is embarrassing and you might not want public,, other information reveals weakness you might not want to reveal, other pertains strategy you might not want others to know in advance,and some information is proprietary.

And why would the government want or need to use such information against me? Even if it was recorded, which it isn't.

You may say it's so they can discredit me for some reason, but if they ever wanted to do that it would be easier and cheaper for them to simply make something up.

Your paranoia is shining like a bright beacon; do you own a tin foil hat perchance?

[sirineou]

Not all information desired private is illegal,

some is embarrassing and you might not want public,, other information reveals weakness you might not want to reveal, other pertains strategy you might not want others to know in advance,and some information is proprietary.

And why would the government want or need to use such information against me? Even if it was recorded, which it isn't.

You may say it's so they can discredit me for some reason, but if they ever wanted to do that it would be easier and cheaper for them to simply make something up.

Your paranoia is shining like a bright beacon; do you own a tin foil hat perchance?

You obviously don't get it

They might not want to discredit you, but they might want to discredit your representative,

or any one they perceive as a threat.

Senetor Bernie Sanders question to the NSA:

"is NSA spying on members of Congress?"

NSA answer:

Members of Congress have the same privacy protections as all Americans"

But in a previous post you said that the people in the government are good man and you trust them,

And that's good enough for me

By the way, my tin hat looks very nice on me , it brings out the color of my eyes, How does your tin brain look?

[LarryBird]

I'm curious how many of you read the chapter in Super Freakonomics regarding the profiling of terrorists. One thing that came out of datamining was the interesting fact that suicide bombers don't buy life insurance....

The British Gov't was able to look at the bank records of people, and accurately guess which ones would be a terrorist...

I think one of the interesting things about this 'meta-data' stuff is that in order for them to know it was useful, they would have already had to sift through this information to realize it could be valuable. That's something that hasn't been talked about.