Searched By US Customs, Including Laptop & Camera

[tm8405]

I am a US citizen, male, retired architect & after 5 months in Asia (3 mo Thailand plus Vietnam & Myanmar), I flew

home this week & went through immigration & customs at the Detroit airport. After the Immigration officer saw the

countries I had visited & my 'long' stay in Thailand, I was taken aside, questioned about my trip & my bags were

searched by US Customs. Then one inspector opened my laptop & examined the contents while another scrolled

through the thousands of tourist photos on my camera. My cell phone was examined as well. They found nothing

so my passport was returned to me & I was allowed to go on my way. One of the inspectors told me that they were

looking for drugs or evidence that I was a pedophile.

I was given a printed handout which stated that US Customs has the right to not only examine electronic devices

buy to confiscate them & copy the contents. They also have the legal right to perform searches 'at random' or if

a person is a watch list or has problems w/their documents,

So single men entering to the US should be aware that they can be 'profiled' by US Immigration & Customs & the

mere fact of an extended stay in Thailand can be sufficient reason for a low-level clerk to decide to delay &

inconvenience you & violate your privacy.

[jmccarty]

No different than racial profiling and illegal!

[Jingthing]

It's completely legal and pre-dates Obama.

[Tmymaimee]

Nothing at all wrong. If their actions catch at least one pedophile, all the privacy violations will be worth it. Imagine if it was your daughter being fiddled by some of the trash you see here in Thailand.

[somchaismith]

Good job US customs.

[Jingthing]

I actually think it is very heavy handed to subject people to that just based on being single traveling in Thailand. But it is legal. Once you enter the U.S., then it wouldn't be legal without a justified search warrant.

[Tmymaimee]

How do you suggest they catch pedophiles without invading innocent peoples' privacy? I had my laptop searched 2 years back and there were a lot of questions asked about my arm around 2 5 year old hill tribe girls. I answered truthfully and never felt my privacy was violated as I had nothing to hide. It always seems to be guilty people that are first to question the legalities over wiretaps, searches and so on.

[Johpa]

So just get down on your knees right now and thank Baby Jesus that they did not make like MIchael Jackson with the one-glove routine. And remember, your constitutional rights don't begin until after you have passed through both immigration and customs.

[Jingthing]

How do you suggest they catch pedophiles without invading innocent peoples' privacy? I had my laptop searched 2 years back and there were a lot of questions asked about my arm around 2 5 year old hill tribe girls. I answered truthfully and never felt my privacy was violated as I had nothing to hide. It always seems to be guilty people that are first to question the legalities over wiretaps, searches and so on.

I love it. Question the limits of government power and to some people, that makes you guilty. Oy vey!

[wym]

Make sure you have everything backed up, either to the cloud or a device sent separately.

They can and do confiscate the equipment for full forensic testing without any evidence, reasonable cause.

A web developer friend had his livelihood very much impaired for a while, had to take up a collection from friends to get back up and running.

No rights at all at any border crossings no matter your nationality, professional status etc.

And they've even prosecuted for kiddie p0rn when it's purely animated, no live actors harmed in the making.

[nisakiman]

How do you suggest they catch pedophiles without invading innocent peoples' privacy? I had my laptop searched 2 years back and there were a lot of questions asked about my arm around 2 5 year old hill tribe girls. I answered truthfully and never felt my privacy was violated as I had nothing to hide. It always seems to be guilty people that are first to question the legalities over wiretaps, searches and so on.

I love it. Question the limits of government power and to some people, that makes you guilty. Oy vey!

Yes, it's the old "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" canard trotted out by all paid-up totalitarians to justify their intrusive policies.

[EyesWideOpen]

Easy. If you do not want some federal employee rummaging through every photo your took on your Asian trip, just use the program TrueCrypt....It has two password

levels, and is in essence uncrackable....

http://www.truecrypt.org/downloads

Edited February 16, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[vtjforyou]

Cannot stand these retards...

[Tywais]

A topic in the Travel forum that touches on the regulations of search and seizure of data devices. Protecting Your Data When Traveling Abroad

[wym]

Easy. If you do not want some federal employee rummaging through every photo your took on your Asian trip, just use the program TrueCrypt....It has two password

levels, and is in essence uncrackable....

http://www.truecrypt.org/downloads

But note that 99% of the time they will be able to see you've got encrypted data, and give you the choice of either giving them the key or losing your gear.

And some jurisdictions can jail you for refusing.

Bit trickier to set up "deniable" mode.

Would be much better if everyone used strong encryption then using it wouldn't be a symptom of being a bad guy.

Note the terrorists have won, a long time ago. . .

[Seastallion]

I would have preferred that the OP had not warned the kiddy-fiddlers.

Just as I don't think it decent for others to advise ways around it.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Seastallion

[thaibeachlovers]

I always ASSUME that I will have everything inspected by some of the unpleasant types that seem to inhabit immigration/ customs these days. Twice been held for over 4 hours while they did a fruitless search for some/ any evidence that I was a paedo, based on being a single man spent time in Thailand.

However, given that only a fool would travel with anything incriminating on a computer or camera actually with one, they are usually only wasting time. Take my Thai photo collection of thousands of photos, which would easily fit on a modern computer, do they have the hundreds of hours that it would take to inspect just my computer? I doubt it.

Seastallion wrote <Just as I don't think it decent for others to advise ways around it.> You'd have to be a real dummy not to know how to upload anything you want kept secret to an encrypted web store, and just download it once arrived in the next country.

[nisakiman]

I would have preferred that the OP had not warned the kiddy-fiddlers.

Just as I don't think it decent for others to advise ways around it.

I think you'd find that any paedophile or terrorist who isn't completely brain dead will have either encrypted and uploaded all his material to the cloud before travelling, or downloaded it to a flashdrive and posted it to himself. Like the pointless theatre of 'security' we are all subjected to before we board a flight, all this stuff is merely an exercise in instilling fear of authority, just another way of exerting control. Neither airport 'security' nor computer inspections ever catch any terrorists, paedophiles or any other serious criminals, they are just fulfilling the politicos demands that 'something must be seen to be being done', and preferably reported in the media as "The fight against terrorism!" or whatever.

[wym]

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2011/12/tsa-insanity-201112

[OMGImInPattaya]

Easy. If you do not want some federal employee rummaging through every photo your took on your Asian trip, just use the program TrueCrypt....It has two password

levels, and is in essence uncrackable....

http://www.truecrypt.org/downloads

If you are selected for enhanced screening and if it's a full electronics review as well, if such a encrypted file, folder, or container is found on any of your electronic devices and you refuse to decrypt it yourself or provide the password, you can be sure the device will be confiscated for further detailed forensic analysis. It may be months or never before you are allowed to retrieve the device. You can also be assured that your name will be entered into the CBP system and you will be chosen for enhances screening on any subsequent entries into the United States. However, the CBP cannot force you to reveal your password and there is no fine/penalty for failing to do so (other than getting on the list).

This can be a real problem for business people who need to protect propriety business data when they travel or for ordinary travelers financial, banking, and tax date they may wish to protect. The best solution is to have a "clean" traveling with minimal or no protected data on it and so that if they demand to see the encrypted data, one can decide to reveal it or refuse and the data/device loss is minimal.

Edited February 16, 2014 by OMGImInPattaya

[OMGImInPattaya]

I would have preferred that the OP had not warned the kiddy-fiddlers.

Just as I don't think it decent for others to advise ways around it.

The "kiddy fiddlers" as you call them have been onto this for like since portable computers were invented and there are lots of legitimate reasons to encrypt data and not wanting some slob government worker reviewing it.

[Ajaan]

Easy. If you do not want some federal employee rummaging through every photo your took on your Asian trip, just use the program TrueCrypt....It has two password

levels, and is in essence uncrackable....

http://www.truecrypt.org/downloads

If you are selected for enhanced screening and if it's a full electronics review as well, if such a encrypted file, folder, or container is found on any of your electronic devices and you refuse to decrypt it yourself or provide the password, you can be sure the device will be confiscated for further detailed forensic analysis. It may be months or never before you are allowed to retrieve the device. You can also be assured that your name will be entered into the CBP system and you will be chosen for enhances screening on any subsequent entries into the United States. However, the CBP cannot force you to reveal your password and there is no fine/penalty for failing to do so (other than getting on the list).

This can be a real problem for business people who need to protect propriety business data when they travel or for ordinary travelers financial, banking, and tax date they may wish to protect. The best solution is to have a "clean" traveling with minimal or no protected data on it and so that if they demand to see the encrypted data, one can decide to reveal it or refuse and the data/device loss is minimal.

You weren't paying attention: TrueCrypt has TWO password levels. You store the things you WANT people searching you to find at one level, and, after you let them pressure and threaten you, you "reluctantly surrender" that password. However, there's a second level of encryption in the file--which is completely invisible--which is only able to be opened with the second password, which you never give them. The file looks just like one encrypted file, it's just which password you enter that determines which level of the file will be opened.

Of course, governments know about this by now (TrueCrypt is free and open source, and it's no secret that it has this hidden encryption level capability), and if they REALLY suspect you of something (that is, have other evidence to incriminate you beyond just your appearance), they'll confiscate your device no matter whether you give them a password or not. But they still won't be able to get into the second encryption level, if you have one. TrueCrypt is really, really good at what it does.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Ajaan

[Loptr]

It's completely legal and pre-dates Obama.

A little defensive JT?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Easy. If you do not want some federal employee rummaging through every photo your took on your Asian trip, just use the program TrueCrypt....It has two password

levels, and is in essence uncrackable....

http://www.truecrypt.org/downloads

If you are selected for enhanced screening and if it's a full electronics review as well, if such a encrypted file, folder, or container is found on any of your electronic devices and you refuse to decrypt it yourself or provide the password, you can be sure the device will be confiscated for further detailed forensic analysis. It may be months or never before you are allowed to retrieve the device. You can also be assured that your name will be entered into the CBP system and you will be chosen for enhances screening on any subsequent entries into the United States. However, the CBP cannot force you to reveal your password and there is no fine/penalty for failing to do so (other than getting on the list).

This can be a real problem for business people who need to protect propriety business data when they travel or for ordinary travelers financial, banking, and tax date they may wish to protect. The best solution is to have a "clean" traveling with minimal or no protected data on it and so that if they demand to see the encrypted data, one can decide to reveal it or refuse and the data/device loss is minimal.

You weren't paying attention: TrueCrypt has TWO password levels. You store the things you WANT people searching you to find at one level, and, after you let them pressure and threaten you, you "reluctantly surrender" that password. However, there's a second level of encryption in the file--which is completely invisible--which is only able to be opened with the second password, which you never give them. The file looks just like one encrypted file, it's just which password you enter that determines which level of the file will be opened.

Of course, governments know about this by now (TrueCrypt is free and open source, and it's no secret that it has this hidden encryption level capability), and if they REALLY suspect you of something (that is, have other evidence to incriminate you beyond just your appearance), they'll confiscate your device no matter whether you give them a password or not. But they still won't be able to get into the second encryption level, if you have one. TrueCrypt is really, really good at what it does.[/qudumb]

Yeah...these guys are dumb but not that dumb.

Its pretty easy to see that the size of the decrypted data doesn't match the size of the folder/drive.

Edited February 16, 2014 by OMGImInPattaya

[Ajaan]

You weren't paying attention: TrueCrypt has TWO password levels. You store the things you WANT people searching you to find at one level, and, after you let them pressure and threaten you, you "reluctantly surrender" that password. However, there's a second level of encryption in the file--which is completely invisible--which is only able to be opened with the second password, which you never give them. The file looks just like one encrypted file, it's just which password you enter that determines which level of the file will be opened.

Of course, governments know about this by now (TrueCrypt is free and open source, and it's no secret that it has this hidden encryption level capability), and if they REALLY suspect you of something (that is, have other evidence to incriminate you beyond just your appearance), they'll confiscate your device no matter whether you give them a password or not. But they still won't be able to get into the second encryption level, if you have one. TrueCrypt is really, really good at what it does.[/qudumb]

Yeah...these guys are dumb but not that dumb.

Its pretty easy to see that the size of the decrypted data doesn't match the size of the folder/drive.

Haha...you don't know much about TrueCrypt, do you? Go to their website, read and learn.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Ajaan

[JLCrab]

I solved this problem for myself at least -- I don't bring a computer into the USA after 1-2 years in Thailand but buy a new laptop when I get there. Nothing I really need for the 2-3 weeks in the USA that cannot be stored as email /attachment or dropbox, etc.

[OMGImInPattaya]

What would be really interesting to get a handle on is the profile used by CBE for selecting persons for enhanced screenings for either drugs or child pornography. We all assume we know the "typical" suspect: Balding middle-aged male returning from an overseas trip, especially from know "hotspots" like SE Asia and central and south America (could provably add parts of Europe as well). Also, enforcement seems to vary by city as my friends tell me Honolulu and LAX are very tough entry points while my experience at SFO has always been a breeze. This is doubly so as I fit the profile to a tee and have multiple Cambodian visas in my passport. In 15 years of living in Thailand and going back and forth maybe a dozen times, I've only been selected for a cursory baggage inspection once and never for enhanced screening. Usually its just "welcome home sir" or the agent may ask what I'm doing in thailand and I answer honestly that I live there. A couple have mentioned their own trips to thailand or comment that it's a place they want to visit. Then they mark my customs form and I'm invariably waived on out of the arrivals hall and into the main terminal and back into America

[OMGImInPattaya]

You weren't paying attention: TrueCrypt has TWO password levels. You store the things you WANT people searching you to find at one level, and, after you let them pressure and threaten you, you "reluctantly surrender" that password. However, there's a second level of encryption in the file--which is completely invisible--which is only able to be opened with the second password, which you never give them. The file looks just like one encrypted file, it's just which password you enter that determines which level of the file will be opened.

Of course, governments know about this by now (TrueCrypt is free and open source, and it's no secret that it has this hidden encryption level capability), and if they REALLY suspect you of something (that is, have other evidence to incriminate you beyond just your appearance), they'll confiscate your device no matter whether you give them a password or not. But they still won't be able to get into the second encryption level, if you have one. TrueCrypt is really, really good at what it does.[/qudumb]

Yeah...these guys are dumb but not that dumb.

Its pretty easy to see that the size of the decrypted data doesn't match the size of the folder/drive.

Haha...you don't know much about TrueCrypt, do you? Go to their website, read and learn.

And what, you dont think TSA knows how to read a website? Are you some Snowden wannabe posting from a computer in mommy's basement..have you ever traveled internationally...do you even have a passport? Yeah its all fine and good to drone on about the glories of TC (and I agree, it, and PGP, are the best encryption programs out there) but we're talking about the distopian world of US border security and not some Jeffersonian ideal of perfect liberty here.

I've know about and used TC for over 10 years. On my clean traveling computer I don't store any sensitive data so I've no need for encryption. Also, just having the program on a traveling device that is selected for enhanced screening will arouse suspicion. I'm not going to fight them, especially when I've nothing to hide. When I travel internationally, I want to get in and out of border checks points quickly and with a minimum of fuss. Using TC on a traveling device would defeat that objective.

Edited February 16, 2014 by OMGImInPattaya

[simon43]

When I returned to the UK last week for the first time in 7 years, my status as a single male, living and travelling in South East Asia ensured that I was singled out for extra screening.

Pedophile?, Drug-runner?

No, the customs guy explained, as he swabbed my laptop and bag, and deposited the swab into some electronic device, he was checking for traces of Semtex !!

Simon

[NeverSure]

The TSA in all of these years since 9/11 have never caught or stopped a would-be terrorist or bomber. 13 years.

This begs the question: "Has their mere presence stopped anyone from trying?" I think probably.

They have found kiddie porn, drug smugglers, 11 firearms and apprehended illegal aliens and people with false travel documents. No one was linked to terrorists.

There have been a couple of incidents of passengers apprehending someone such as the Shoe Bomber, but he was inbound, in flight.

We haven't lost another plane since 9/11. I don't mind them searching for bombs and guns before I get on an airplane, but I think searching my computer is patently a violation of the US constitution. And they can't tell me I'm not on US soil being dealt with by US law enforcement just because I haven't cleared customs.