Racism or Am I Just too Sensitive.

[CharlieH]

Its unfortunate and disagreeable for sure, far too prevelant in the Hotel trade, I have found it makes a huge difference if they know you speak Thai, or you immediately correct them in Thai if you hear something offensive.

Not that doing that will probably stop them, they just wont do it to your face, just behind your back which is again typically Thai,

To so many Thai people the universe is Thailand, not many care what happens outside their own village let alone outside the country, thats just down to poor education and no social ettiquette, and its the lower end of this same education system that end up as the service personnel in many cases.

To many Thai people, if you are not Thai, you dont really exist, you are tolerated purely as a financial source and often resented. Sad but true.

The Thai people generally are lovely, gentle and pleasant and I enjoy living amongst them, those that have been exposed to the cities, tourism, and "foreigners" on a daily rotational basis of many colors and nationalities, are the ones that tend to have "attitude" which then begs the question is it fhem, or what they have been exposed to by the foreigners and their behaviour which has given rise to their attitude or opinion.

[Somsrisonphimai]

OMG! I thought you are writing a novel. Anyway, I guess you have not seen how they treat the isaan girls at the fancy places.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[wym]

To answer your OP I think it's "yes".

To be sure this sort of racism based on skin color is endemic here.

However I also think there may be a chance you are indeed a bit sensitized maybe not imagining insult but over-estimating - they don't hate you for your race, it's just a knee-jerk mental habit resulting from social programming, and fact is they couldn't care less about you nor the other (white) customers.

Just like people thinking they're being disrespected just by the existence of the normal word "farang".

Khon khaek is only disrespectful in the context of its original meaning, applied to those many thousands of Thai nationals of subcontinental descent, implying they are only tolerated temporarily, as in "guest workers".

But that is the way it is, what are you going to do about it other than vent online?

I would suggest avoiding the fancy-pants high-end money-wasting places and get out more among the nicer Thais, the rural poor.

Or just pretend you're in South Africa, grit your teeth and bear it?

Sorry I can't offer anything more constructive, and my condolences for your troubles.

[wym]

OMG! I thought you are writing a novel. Anyway, I guess you have not seen how they treat the isaan girls at the fancy places.

I would think that's less so when the couple are roughly the same age, and check in together?

[Somsrisonphimai]

OMG! I thought you are writing a novel. Anyway, I guess you have not seen how they treat the isaan girls at the fancy places.

I would think that's less so when the couple are roughly the same age, and check in together?

Not really, they still wonder why is that hansum man with that not so pretty girl.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[CharlieH]

OMG! I thought you are writing a novel. Anyway, I guess you have not seen how they treat the isaan girls at the fancy places.

I would think that's less so when the couple are roughly the same age, and check in together?

Not really, they still wonder why is that hansum man with that not so pretty girl.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Maybe that "not so pretty girl" is in fact a beautiful person inside, not everyone judges a book by its cover you know. Especially where relationships are concerned.

or is that your "Thainess" showing through proving the OP's point ?

Edited February 20, 2014 by CharlieH

[oiboy]

To answer your OP I think it's "yes".

To be sure this sort of racism based on skin color is endemic here.

However I also think there may be a chance you are indeed a bit sensitized maybe not imagining insult but over-estimating - they don't hate you for your race, it's just a knee-jerk mental habit resulting from social programming, and fact is they couldn't care less about you nor the other (white) customers.

Just like people thinking they're being disrespected just by the existence of the normal word "farang".

Khon khaek is only disrespectful in the context of its original meaning, applied to those many thousands of Thai nationals of subcontinental descent, implying they are only tolerated temporarily, as in "guest workers".

But that is the way it is, what are you going to do about it other than vent online?

I would suggest avoiding the fancy-pants high-end money-wasting places and get out more among the nicer Thais, the rural poor.

Or just pretend you're in South Africa, grit your teeth and bear it?

Sorry I can't offer anything more constructive, and my condolences for your troubles.

Thank you for your reply. If this did not impact me I would not care very much. I mean if they were racist at home so be it. When they bring it to their job at an international hotel chain I take greater offence. I guess I can call it out then bring it to the attention of their immediate manager as well as corporate. Maybe this will cause some sort of training or discipline if pushed far enough up the chain.

I did post on tA too and not to bash but to get a different perspective as many people on there are travellers and not expats living in the LOS

[mauGR1]

Nice rant, OP.

Ignorant racist people are everywhere, in India they used to call me " angregi " , not exactly a friendly word.

Better get over it, eventually you'll grow a thicker skin.

[Sayonarax]

Its always racist when.. some other race isn't queued up before a white guy.

The Cafe shop instance was your not a hotel guest so they made sure you weren't going to jump on the bill...

The Hotel instance was the rooms were actually full and other guest had to be moved about to accommodate your lazy check out.

Yes you are just ranting because your insecure about your self not anyone else.

If you wanna see racial profiling, go drive around the city and see every black guy get detained.

[Berkshire]

there was a reason why I asked that.

I know there is. You fail at comprehension. The rest of your blather is drivel.

Fail

You seem to enjoy pulling my statements out of context. Are you trying to prove that you're a d*ckhead? Because enough already, I'm convinced.

[geriatrickid]

I see that you are from Montreal, which appreciably is a cosmopolitan city. However, it is a city that is no stranger to acts of bias and you most likely would have encountered similar events at some point in some parts of that city. However., the SE Asian community stays in certain parts of Montreal, which parallels the Bangkok situation as it does London and Paris. I am not offering an excuse, but if you have traveled all over the world and visited India, then you would have seen similar treatment as there is pecking order for people based upon their visible ethnicity. For example, it is not uncommon for Indians to use the expression "chink" when referring to north eastern Indians, or some harsh adjectives when referring to Bengalis or Tamils. Yes, Indians can get a rough ride in Thailand, but that is due in part to the types of Indians who work in Thailand and who come as tourists. The educated and well off Indians don't usually come to Thailand. Why would they, when they can go to destinations more suitable to their respective station in life? I'm sorry, but you went to Pattaya. Did you honestly think that you were going to be treated with kid gloves in a destination where foreigners are perceived as sex tourists? Seriously, you are educated, married and respectable and you vacationed in Pattaya? You should hear the colourful terms Thais have for the Europeans who visit Pattaya (and Patong).

Edited February 20, 2014 by geriatrickid

[Berkshire]

Thank you for your reply. If this did not impact me I would not care very much. I mean if they were racist at home so be it. When they bring it to their job at an international hotel chain I take greater offence. I guess I can call it out then bring it to the attention of their immediate manager as well as corporate. Maybe this will cause some sort of training or discipline if pushed far enough up the chain.

I did post on tA too and not to bash but to get a different perspective as many people on there are travellers and not expats living in the LOS

Oiboy, you never did answer my question, which is, if you've been to Thailand so many times before, how come you've never experienced this type of treatment before?

You should also realize that on these forums, many farangs have made allegations of racism against them as well. So perhaps the Thais are equal opportunity racists...if you can even call it that. And further, I have found that farangs in Thailand who hate the Thais almost always hate Indians even more. So you're asking for sympathy from folks who may actually despise you. Just saying....

[cashpower]

You seem to enjoy pulling my statements out of context. .

'context' isn't something you conjure up later to try to hide your failures.

strike two

[oiboy]

Nice rant, OP.

Ignorant racist people are everywhere, in India they used to call me " angregi " , not exactly a friendly word.

Better get over it, eventually you'll grow a thicker skin.

I agree with you. As said I care less if someone calls me names in certain social situations. I do however take offence when I get served second or service sucks based strictly on my race.

[Somsrisonphimai]

OMG! I thought you are writing a novel. Anyway, I guess you have not seen how they treat the isaan girls at the fancy places.

I would think that's less so when the couple are roughly the same age, and check in together?

Not really, they still wonder why is that hansum man with that not so pretty girl.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Maybe that "not so pretty girl" is in fact a beautiful person inside, not everyone judges a book by its cover you know. Especially where relationships are concerned.

or is that your "Thainess" showing through proving the OP's point ?

I feel like I'll put myself at a corner no matter how I explain it. Racism has no nationality period. You just have to go on about your day and don't care too much of anything that bring you pain.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[oiboy]

Thank you for your reply. If this did not impact me I would not care very much. I mean if they were racist at home so be it. When they bring it to their job at an international hotel chain I take greater offence. I guess I can call it out then bring it to the attention of their immediate manager as well as corporate. Maybe this will cause some sort of training or discipline if pushed far enough up the chain.

I did post on tA too and not to bash but to get a different perspective as many people on there are travellers and not expats living in the LOS

Oiboy, you never did answer my question, which is, if you've been to Thailand so many times before, how come you've never experienced this type of treatment before?

You should also realize that on these forums, many farangs have made allegations of racism against them as well. So perhaps the Thais are equal opportunity racists...if you can even call it that. And further, I have found that farangs in Thailand who hate the Thais almost always hate Indians even more. So you're asking for sympathy from folks who may actually despise you. Just saying....

In my past experience in Thailand I did not experience this as much. I'm not trying to garner any sympathy. I'm actually trying to figure out what other peoples opinion is on this and how proactive are they when they see these kinds of situation. To some extent I feel that going with the flow when it's to your advantage is sort of supporting and validating this kind of behaviour. If the Brit in line behind be had common sense he could have also spoke up and said that it was not appropriate. I know I would have. I'm sure there would be huff and puff if it was say a Jewish person told they get served second. Why is this kind of stuff acceptable to foreigners here and not in their countries of origin?

[cashpower]

. I'm sure there would be huff and puff if it was say a Jewish person told they get served second.

There we go. That wasn't so hard was it? Racist. ok ok its not a race. Point stands

[wym]

You seem to enjoy pulling my statements out of context. Are you trying to prove that you're a d*ckhead? Because enough already, I'm convinced.

No proof required, clearly the impression he's been striving for since his very first post, fresh off his private jet to shop for multiple properties, complaining about the protests causing crowded conditions in the BTS !!

Open the dictionary under troll and there's his photo.

Hall of Fame quality for sure. . .

[Berkshire]

You seem to enjoy pulling my statements out of context. Are you trying to prove that you're a d*ckhead? Because enough already, I'm convinced.

No proof required, clearly the impression he's been striving for since his very first post, fresh off his private jet to shop for multiple properties, complaining about the protests causing crowded conditions in the BTS !!

Open the dictionary under troll and there's his photo.

Hall of Fame quality for sure. . .

Aaah, thanks Wym. That explains a lot. And to think I wasted a few seconds of my life communicating with that fool.

[cashpower]

Open the dictionary under troll and there's his photo.

.

You seriously think that everyone values the opinion of a fat old pervert dont you? Sicko.

Tell us about your next "date". Lemme guess - a ladyboy and a 9yr old "farmgirl"? Creep

[sam3384]

I've witnessed and personally experienced many forms of racism in Thailand; but nothing to to the degree put up by Indians.

If I were Indian I would boycott LOS. I would never go somewhere I am not wanted.

[ford8]

Unforunately you are paying the price of the perceived overall culture of your countrymen, valid or not.

There is a well known Thai caveat, "If you see a snake and an Indian, kill the Indian first"

This is not a racist post simply to point out the realities of the world we live in.

[wym]

Why is this kind of stuff acceptable to foreigners here and not in their countries of origin?

Because the core reason most of us - old men - are here, is to be able to freely and openly bonk young girls.

Even less acceptable back home than a little racism isn't it?

True freedom, no one telling you what to think and say.

That's why.

The fact you were in Pattaya tells me your story isn't that different, in Thailand gotta take the bad with the good.

The fact that most of us are white, and most of them are brown is (I think) besides the point.

[rct99q]

I didn't really come to Thailand to eat Indian food. In fact I'm not a huge fan of Indian food with the exception on South Indian food. Perhaps I'm sensitive. I guess it's due to the fact that I haven't been exposed to overt displays of racism in my life. Perhaps I'm lucky for that. I wonder how you would feel if the the shoe was on the other foot?

I find it hard to believe you have not encountered overt displays of racism. You stated you are Canadian. I would assume you are not from Red Deer, otherwise you would truly know what racism is. In fact if you were from places such as Alberta, Saskatchewan, NWT, Manitoba, certain parts of BC, PEI, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Quebec and certain parts of Ontario you would have experienced overt displays of racism.

I have experienced (and seen) more overt cases of racism in Canada than in Thailand. But I am white so maybe it is because of that fact.......being white nowadays in Canada I do get a feel for what you are describing....

[wym]

I've witnessed and personally experienced many forms of racism in Thailand; but nothing to to the degree put up by Indians.

Africans? Rohingya and other Burmese?

In many places Khmer. . .

[oiboy]

Its always racist when.. some other race isn't queued up before a white guy.

The Cafe shop instance was your not a hotel guest so they made sure you weren't going to jump on the bill...

The Hotel instance was the rooms were actually full and other guest had to be moved about to accommodate your lazy check out.

Yes you are just ranting because your insecure about your self not anyone else.

If you wanna see racial profiling, go drive around the city and see every black guy get detained.

Let me answer your post one by one. (Hope I'm not feeding a troll)

Its always racist when.. some other race isn't queued up before a white guy.

It wasn't the fact he was white. If someone arrives 8 minutes after you, the hostess sees you waiting and then proceeds to walk around you to serve someone behind you ..... I'm sure you can come up with a story to justify this treatment.

The Cafe shop instance was your not a hotel guest so they made sure you weren't going to jump on the bill...

Like I said there is a certain degree of decorum that needs to be followed. I was not eating at a small little shop. It was the Marriott Cafe at the JW. It's almost as if I was being accused of stealing when I did not.

The Hotel instance was the rooms were actually full and other guest had to be moved about to accommodate your lazy check out.

If you can comprehend the English language you will understand the point is the hotel was not full. In fact was told by the GSM that occupancy was at 60%. If you are a frequent traveller and are loyal to certain hotel brands they give you something called a loyalty card which offers certain benefits including late check out. Upgrades, among other things.

If you wanna see racial profiling, go drive around the city and see every black guy get detained.

I don't agree with that either. I don't buy the argument that it's ok as others have it worst than you. Really?

I'm not at all insecure. I'm speaking from specific experiences. (generalization) Perhaps most Indians are used to being treated like sh*t in foreign countries? I'm not. I call BS when I see it.

[oiboy]

Why is this kind of stuff acceptable to foreigners here and not in their countries of origin?

Because the core reason most of us - old men - are here, is to be able to freely and openly bonk young girls.

Even less acceptable back home than a little racism isn't it?

True freedom, no one telling you what to think and say.

That's why.

The fact you were in Pattaya tells me your story isn't that different, in Thailand gotta take the bad with the good.

The fact that most of us are white, and most of them are brown is (I think) besides the point.

True freedom, no one telling you what to think and say.

Remember the guy who didn't stand up before a movie?

The fact you were in Pattaya tells me your story isn't that different, in Thailand gotta take the bad with the good.

If you eluding to the fact that I came here to monger, that's just not the case. I had two days between flights and wanted to originally fly to a beach in the south but my flight back to BKK arrived too late. So I decided on Pattaya as my beach destination. (I know it sucks, but some beach is better than no beach)

Even less acceptable back home than a little racism isn't it?

Not really. Of course as long as everyone is of age there is really no issue. Sure some hardcore feminists may disagree with this thought and call it exploitation, but they really don't understand the semantics of the situation. I feel it's mutual exploitation.

[angrybird]

How does the Indian Caste System deal with discrimination ?

[Munger]

OMG! I thought you are writing a novel. Anyway, I guess you have not seen how they treat the isaan girls at the fancy places.

So who the <deleted>> are THEY ?, (how THEY treat the Isaan girls at fancy places) Do you mean Thais ?

[oiboy]

I didn't really come to Thailand to eat Indian food. In fact I'm not a huge fan of Indian food with the exception on South Indian food. Perhaps I'm sensitive. I guess it's due to the fact that I haven't been exposed to overt displays of racism in my life. Perhaps I'm lucky for that. I wonder how you would feel if the the shoe was on the other foot?

I find it hard to believe you have not encountered overt displays of racism. You stated you are Canadian. I would assume you are not from Red Deer, otherwise you would truly know what racism is. In fact if you were from places such as Alberta, Saskatchewan, NWT, Manitoba, certain parts of BC, PEI, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Quebec and certain parts of Ontario you would have experienced overt displays of racism.

I have experienced (and seen) more overt cases of racism in Canada than in Thailand. But I am white so maybe it is because of that fact.......being white nowadays in Canada I do get a feel for what you are describing....

Let me correct myself. I have never had overt racism affect me. Nut jobs like the Heritage Front, KKK, hammer skins and other hate groups have little impact on my day to day life. They are as important to me as dog sh*t you step in. They can rant and rave all they want but are generally marginalized in society.