To Sin-Sot or not? What is fair to both sides?

[Boxclever]

Show me her picture and I'll put a price on it

[Mossfinn]

Usually sin soots apply only to bargirls.

Oh dear, the absolute nadir of intelligence

[craigt3365]

Let's move this over to the marriage and divorce forum.

Topic Moved.

[Somtamme]

Yes, but that's my point, it is what is considered reasonable, and more to do what is right for both. There is should not be any specific value nor amount. But it is part of Thai tradition, so one could argue it is part of a culture.

I like the analogies and would agree one shouldn't be going to market nor following a herd when entering into a marriage.

But if I could bring another analogy and It's much like our wedding vows we made which still ring true "for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death to us part" it's about compromises and what is reasonable in each case

[whoisyourdaddy]

Yes, but that's my point, it is what is considered reasonable, and more to do what is right for both. There is should not be any specific value nor amount. But it is part of Thai tradition, so one could argue it is part of a culture.

I like the analogies and would agree one shouldn't be going to market nor following a herd when entering into a marriage.

But if I could bring another analogy and It's much like our wedding vows we made which still ring true "for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death to us part" it's about compromises and what is reasonable in each case

But when a foreigner marries a Thai, should it not be both traditions?

My tradition is father of the bride pays for the wedding.

So if i am expected to pay sin sod, it is only fair to expect her father to pay for the wedding.

I am sure in genuine relationship and marriage traditions of both should be respected, do not you agree?!

Now, one member stated his brother in law paid 100K for uni student, so would it be justified paying 250K for an ex hooker with a couple of kids?

I was joking around with my maid not too long ago that i wanted to marry her 19 year old virgin daughter. Her reply was 100K and 5 baht of gold.

I agreed, but said she(mother would have to put down deposit for a house) after few mins of thinking, she actually agreed.

Now, just need to convince the daughter to date and to marry me

At the same time, one of my staff is getting married to a foreigner double her age and triple her weight, she is divorced with 2 kids, he is paying 150K plus 5 baht of gold.

Bottom line is when the relationship is genuine and intention of her family are pure, they will not be asking for silly amounts of money but just some, possibly to follow the tradition and for show.

Not the practice when it comes to bar girls and their family's

[473geo]

A sin sod is part of Thai culture and one should respect this. The amount comes down to what is considered reasonable to achieve common aims. If you realise and accept this it should earn you more in the end.

Few years ago i was engaged to marry a young uni student( 10 years younger than me), mother a teacher, father in earth moving business.

When i raised the question of Sin Sod with the mother,(teacher) she told me she was not selling a cow and only wanted for her daughter to be happy.

So i would not be betting all my money on Thai culture theory. Its a tradition yes, an old one yes. Do all Thai follow it? NO

"When i raised the question of Sin Sod with the mother,(teacher) she told me she was not selling a cow and only wanted for her daughter to be happy."

That has always been my opinion, and also a lot of posters here on TV. Glad to hear a

Thai having the same opinion. The only TV members espousing the great value of

paying sin sot to a greedy mother are the ones who paid it. Reminds me of the Aesop fable about the fox with no tail....

"

The Fox Who Had Lost His Tail

A FOX caught in a trap escaped, but in so doing lost his tail. Thereafter, feeling his life a burden from the shame and ridicule to which he was exposed, he schemed to convince all the other Foxes that being tailless was much more attractive, thus making up for his own deprivation. He assembled a good many Foxes and publicly advised them to cut off their tails, saying that they would not only look much better without them, but that they would get rid of the weight of the brush, which was a very great inconvenience. One of them interrupting him said, "If you had not yourself lost your tail, my friend, you would not thus counsel us."

Well done straight into the trap, some fox you would be, if you had any idea of just how much sinsod I paid you would know that your suggestion in my case is well wide of the mark! My 'wedding' was at the farm a few family and friends, the sinsod might have just covered it!! the official marriage was 7 years later same MO with a few relatives from abroad. So your fox tail analogy is a little invalid...........unless....perhaps if it is turned on its head....and those who do not wish to pay sinsod have no tail

Edited February 23, 2014 by 473geo

[473geo]

Must admit though some very sensible thoughtful posts on this thread.....sinsod is not open and shut, it is possible to be offered the opportunity to avoid it, but if I am honest I was a little embarrassed to know my wife is teased about the amount of sinsod I paid, so after 7 years I was happy to lash out on an additional one baht of gold silly extravagent romantic fool that I am!

[473geo]

A sin sod is part of Thai culture and one should respect this. The amount comes down to what is considered reasonable to achieve common aims. If you realise and accept this it should earn you more in the end.

Few years ago i was engaged to marry a young uni student( 10 years younger than me), mother a teacher, father in earth moving business.

When i raised the question of Sin Sod with the mother,(teacher) she told me she was not selling a cow and only wanted for her daughter to be happy.

So i would not be betting all my money on Thai culture theory. Its a tradition yes, an old one yes. Do all Thai follow it? NO

The mother wanted the daughter to be happy refused sinsod, not selling.......and did you marry?

[wym]

Scarpolo,

You seem to want to inform yourself about the Thai POV about their own custom.

It is true there are hundreds of threads just from the past couple of years, but you will get very little of value on that aspect of the topic from this forum, maybe a couple of dozen thoughtful and informative responses.

The fact is there is no "formula", the amount - total and its composition between cash and gold, as well as the contribution toward party/ceremony expenses, disposition of the gift envelopes etc - are all up for negotiation.

This is done within a fairly formal structured ritual setting, between the bride's family elders on the one side - usually led by the women, and an older respectable family member representing the groom. In the case of a foreign visitor, he may represent himself, but for the sake of ceremony you should really have an older friend come along.

I have gone through this process over a dozen times and it has never been a stressful or confrontational occasion, and I've greatly enjoyed participating each time.

The variables determining price are:

The age, beauty and perceived pseudo-virginal status of the bride, her level of education and profession.

The wealth of her family.

What the groom should be able to afford.

As many have posted, all or much of the cash component of the sin sot are often returned to the couple to help them establish themselves.

I have seen many young couples get married where the sin sot was under 30,000.

Most farang are asked to front at least 100K.

In the upper classes, many pay millions, include luxury cars, houses etc.

If you have other questions feel free to post them.

[whoisyourdaddy]

A sin sod is part of Thai culture and one should respect this. The amount comes down to what is considered reasonable to achieve common aims. If you realise and accept this it should earn you more in the end.

Few years ago i was engaged to marry a young uni student( 10 years younger than me), mother a teacher, father in earth moving business.

When i raised the question of Sin Sod with the mother,(teacher) she told me she was not selling a cow and only wanted for her daughter to be happy.

So i would not be betting all my money on Thai culture theory. Its a tradition yes, an old one yes. Do all Thai follow it? NO

The mother wanted the daughter to be happy refused sinsod, not selling.......and did you marry?

We did not marry but not for the reasons you thinking.

I could not keep it in my pants and decided to break it off as I did not want to hurt the girl or the family.

[473geo]

A sin sod is part of Thai culture and one should respect this. The amount comes down to what is considered reasonable to achieve common aims. If you realise and accept this it should earn you more in the end.

Few years ago i was engaged to marry a young uni student( 10 years younger than me), mother a teacher, father in earth moving business.

When i raised the question of Sin Sod with the mother,(teacher) she told me she was not selling a cow and only wanted for her daughter to be happy.

So i would not be betting all my money on Thai culture theory. Its a tradition yes, an old one yes. Do all Thai follow it? NO

The mother wanted the daughter to be happy refused sinsod, not selling.......and did you marry?

We did not marry but not for the reasons you thinking.

I could not keep it in my pants and decided to break it off as I did not want to hurt the girl or the family.

Accepted, just interested if the mother was sending a message by not attempting to accept payment, but not the case, ok, not trying to catch you out.

[aveabeeror2]

My Thai brother in law has been married twice in the last 3 years, first sinsod 80k baht, not returned, second sinsod a month ago 100k baht not returned

In most Thai cases I think the sinsod just about covers the wedding, so if you are going for grandiose then expect to pay more for the show, and the Bride

In my opinion not contributing to the proceedings at all is an insult, and to offer a pittance after further negotiation, only compounds the insult

In essense the person is paying for their own wedding.

not as unusual in the states as it may seem to others here,

not every girls father pays

Cant you read OP?? you have been told 1000 times where to get opinions .(for what they are worth)

[marko kok prong]

I would be interested to know if the op scarpolo is american,as to them how much is so important,how much do you make at work,how much this ,how much that,in the Uk /australia we consider this very vulgar and it is rarely if ever a subject to be discussed.

[Scarpolo]

I would be interested to know if the op scarpolo is american,as to them how much is so important,how much do you make at work,how much this ,how much that,in the Uk /australia we consider this very vulgar and it is rarely if ever a subject to be discussed.

Yes, I am American,

I have also sat in bars in Beverly Hills, where farm girls, ie., Kansas, Kentucky, Iowa, all gorgeous blondes, would within minutes, as a man, what his net worth was.

This is straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

yes, they were gorgeous, and very interested in money; only

[BlueSkyCowboy]

Amounts would vary on girls family status, girls virginity status, girls education, job and prospects.

For a divorced female with kids sinsod is nothing, but to make family look good, one can put up some money, just for show

For girl from prominent family with good education, good job and no previous kids or marriages, can go anywhere from 100K to Millions.

My maids son just go married, he paid 10 000 baht sin sod, married girl of same "level"

We got married in Bangkok. We improved the parents house and I bought 30 Rai of land, planted rubber trees and we planted another 20 rai of rubber trees on the family land.

The wife is about as good as it gets, she has a college degree and a great personality, she works very hard in our business, (her talent and my money). No commotion at her home in Issan. (no previous marriage or kids) People in the village know whats going on. When her sister, a nurse who works for the government, got married we loaned them the money for the show of the sin sot. So it all depends on the people involved.

[BlueSkyCowboy]

I would be interested to know if the op scarpolo is american,as to them how much is so important,how much do you make at work,how much this ,how much that,in the Uk /australia we consider this very vulgar and it is rarely if ever a subject to be discussed.

Yes, I am American,

I have also sat in bars in Beverly Hills, where farm girls, ie., Kansas, Kentucky, Iowa, all gorgeous blondes, would within minutes, as a man, what his net worth was.

This is straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

yes, they were gorgeous, and very interested in money; only

Folks remember Zsa Zsa Gabor? Her Hungarian mother always married her to the richest man she could sell her daughter to. Zsa Zsa said "I am a very good housekeeper, when ever I get divorced, I keep the house". So what was the question again LOL

[BlueSkyCowboy]

My Thai brother in law has been married twice in the last 3 years, first sinsod 80k baht, not returned, second sinsod a month ago 100k baht not returned

In most Thai cases I think the sinsod just about covers the wedding, so if you are going for grandiose then expect to pay more for the show, and the Bride

In my opinion not contributing to the proceedings at all is an insult, and to offer a pittance after further negotiation, only compounds the insult

In essense the person is paying for their own wedding.

not as unusual in the states as it may seem to others here,

not every girls father pays

Cant you read OP?? you have been told 1000 times where to get opinions .(for what they are worth)

I told u a million times not to exaggerate LOL

[FiftyTwo]

Mine had a 100k loan to pay off on the family farm.

I agreed to 50k after 1 month of marriage, another 50k after the second month, chanote to be transferred to her name.

Wedding at Amphur office, 30bht.

I thought that was a pretty good deal, and I got my marriage Visa extension after the first month.

Been together 4 years now, a baby too.

And I have the chanote for the farm, she says she couldn't trust anyone else in her family to keep it for her.

Edited February 27, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[realenglish1]

Wake up and smell the Coffee She is divorced with a Child . There is NO SIN SOD period Although the family and others would like to take advantage of farangs ignorance.

I would tell her family you will help from time to time but you have paid a heap in all departments and she should just be glad you are taking care of her and her child

So do what you want but there is NO SIN SOD

THe dude from Canada was marring a single girl never married no children So yes there is Sin Sod

[ozyjon]

They want i pay cash to her family,, what does my family get ?

Pay me some cash, after all i will be taking care of her for

many years to come, what do i get? and my family ?

[slipperylobster]

Sin sot is just wrong...any way you look at it...no matter what the price.

To tell you the truth, the idea has become a joke on unsuspecting farangs.

If you think I am wrong..go to Date In Asia and ask these older ladies how much their Sin Sot is.

They will all want the money up front....and never return it. They will say it is for their credit problems.

Traditional Sin Sot is given at the wedding and returned to you after the wedding...perhaps minus costs. Tradition has been corrupted for us...and we are not expected to understand.

So yes...you will be buying a wife. She is selling herself to a farang to get ahead of her credit problems.

[slipperylobster]

Sin sot is just wrong...any way you look at it...no matter what the price.

To tell you the truth, the idea has become a joke on unsuspecting farangs.

If you think I am wrong..go to Date In Asia and ask these older ladies how much their Sin Sot is.

They will all want the money up front....and never return it. They will say it is for their credit problems.

Traditional Sin Sot is given at the wedding and returned to you after the wedding...perhaps minus costs. Tradition has been corrupted for us...and we are not expected to understand.

So yes...you will be buying a wife. She is selling herself to a farang to get ahead of her credit problems.

[inzman]

Can't we just pin a thread on this. I am so sick of sin sod ripoff threads coming up almost weekly! It's their culture not ours, just say it! Jezz, how many millions should I pay to my hookers family so she will marry me, then dump me for her Thai boyfriend. Get over it already.

Edited February 27, 2014 by inzman

[NoshowJones]

There is like 327 Sin Sot topics now open on Thai Visa as I write. Why would anyone want to open another? Can't you use the search button? Why OH Why would anyone want another Sin Sot thread? Isn't there a pinned sin sot somewhere?

Here is what you do. Go to the upper right and type in Sin Sot and then you get 15 pages of sin sot topics back in a fraction of a second. Talk about high tech. It is a sin sot's lover's paradise.

There are always topics here that have been posted before, and rightly so, there are posters who look at Thaivisa regularly and posters who only look sometimes. From what I can see Thaivisa caters for all kinds of posters, and if the same subject keeps popping up from time to time, it is still interesting as you are getting more different opinions from different posters, and long may it continue.

[NoshowJones]

Hmm sex and travel = F* Off in most places mate

I didn't know that. You mean there is more than one person who thinks Thai Visa needs another Sin Sot thread?

A guy who says he is never going to get married starts a thread about Sin Sot for us al,l not himself?

Does anyone need more information about Sin Sot? The OP does not need any information he is acting as a good Samaritan for others who need to know about Sin Sot.

What is wrong with that? Any TV poster has the right to post anything that interests him/her. Just because the topic does not involve him/her, does it matter? I still enjoy reading topics that have been on before. You get many different questions and answers, and it can still be very enjoyable.

[Guitar God]

I'll bet there are far more posts from people complaining "What, another sin sod thread?" than there are with relevant/helpful/interesting information about the topic.

How hard is it to NOT read a thread that you're not interested in ?

All you have to do is not click. It isn't like you have to chase it out of your yard or anything...

[thailiketoo]

I'll bet there are far more posts from people complaining "What, another sin sod thread?" than there are with relevant/helpful/interesting information about the topic.

How hard is it to NOT read a thread that you're not interested in ?

All you have to do is not click. It isn't like you have to chase it out of your yard or anything...

A guy sits in the middle of a room with every known brand of toilet paper. There are literally thousands of brands of toilet paper in this room. Toilet paper on shelves. In boxes and hanging from the ceiling. Toilet paper on the floor and on the walls.

The door slowly opens and a small voice says, "You, you. You want some toilet paper?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/855 ... planation/

http://www.marrythailand.com/thailand-dowry.php

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader/reader1815.htm

http://absolutelybangkok.com/sin-sod-th ... r-do-they/

http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthr ... ge-Sin-sod

Edited February 27, 2014 by thailiketoo

[belg]

some people say bride, some people say BRIBE

[thailiketoo]

some people say bride, some people say BRIBE

Guess which ones are free? Brideswealth is a tradition in many countries.

[sirchai]

I think I paid marriage counselors and psychologists for my wife and HER psychologically abused daughter from a madman, tens of thousands, p;us legal fees for their custody battles,

So the marriage counselors were only for her. And the psychologically abused daughter doesn't make her "Sod." Sod means fresh, as far as I know.

Nor does your statement about HER daughter does any good for you, or your wife. You know that she is not your daugher and I hope that she'll have a father as well. But a father who loves her, is what kids need. Not between a madman, and now you.

The Sin Sod in most cases is only to show the guests what the guy puts on the table. You'll get it back.

Please try to stay calm, or you'll be the next madman.You might think again, if you really want to get married, as so many people believe that a piece of paper is creating a better relationship. It doesn't. Good luck from an already 12 years happily married guy from Sisaket.-

Edited February 27, 2014 by sirchai