Health Insurance - Beware of Hidden Clauses

[jacko45k]

Seems strange to be paying for and signing a policy you can not understand, perhaps you were swayed by the fact that a relative was involved and your wife wanted him to get the commission!

What you call an agent is likely only a salesperson.

Can we ask how much the premium was and your age?

I have a group plan which originates with AXA. and was happy that it paid about 90% of my bill and a few post-stay out patient visits in full.

I have a summary of the cover in English.

A pity you cannot name the company/policy as it would be useful for the membership. Health cover is the most important worry of my living here.

[Benmart]

All insurance companies worldwide, no matter what the insurance is for may it be a car a house etc... are all thieving wanke_rs.

I've yet to deal with "All" insurance companies and most likely never will. Therefore, I am unable to make a similar blanket statement.

[Benmart]

I am just wondering why an English translation of a policy is useful. Surely, the Thai policy will contain a clause to the effect that the Thai-language policy will prevail????? Meaning, an insurance company can leave anything out of an English-language policy that it wants to hide.

Your statement has merit in my opinion. However, an English translation would've a useful tool in making a decision before signing a contract. In the end, it's buyer beware.

[shirtless]

I took out insurance with a company in Australia, Thinking all would be dealt with if i became sick, when i tried to make a claim all they did was give me bad advice trying to send me to the most expensive hospitals without clarifying my insurance policys status.In the end when i read through the fine print i realised they basically insured you for zip,They declined my claim and i got stuck with a 100k bill. covermore is really coverless insurance.

[NoshowJones]

.Advice: take the simple Thai Insurance for foreigners and book a private room in case of emergency. Cheap and efficient. Saving a lot money you are paying now to your precious insurance company

That seems good advice, but there are certain things required, I believe that you have to get certain things from your local Amphur (I think it's called) and this being Thailand, every government office are like their Immigration offices, some will do this, some won't, some will do that, some won't.

If it was as simple as it sounds, then every ex pat including me, would be taking it out.

[NoshowJones]

.Advice: take the simple Thai Insurance for foreigners and book a private room in case of emergency. Cheap and efficient. Saving a lot money you are paying now to your precious insurance company

http://www.thaihealth.co.th/2012/index_eng.php

Good advice!

This link is absolutely useless, it is in Thai, and clicking on the UK sign does not change it.

[NoshowJones]

.Advice: take the simple Thai Insurance for foreigners and book a private room in case of emergency. Cheap and efficient. Saving a lot money you are paying now to your precious insurance company

That seems good advice, but there are certain things required, I believe that you have to get certain things from your local Amphur (I think it's called) and this being Thailand, every government office are like their Immigration offices, some will do this, some won't, some will do that, some won't.

If it was as simple as it sounds, then every ex pat including me, would be taking it out.

It seems that I have misunderstood, I clicked the link and found that it is not the one I though it was, but it is in Thai, and it only translates the first page to English, which makes it totally useless.

[steve73]

I went with BUPA for the simply reason that they were one of the few companies here who will continue to provide insurance providing you start before age 60...

But whoever you decide to go with you need to clarify ALL pre-conditions BEFORE committing.

I fully declared my previous medical history, some of which were classified as pre-conditions, and either not covered at all, or not for a certain period. 1 year later I suffered a slipped disc requiring surgery. They refused my claim, on the basis that I'd visited the hospital 2 years prior to commencing the insurance, and been diagnosed with musclur strain - despite having declared that visit on my application form and them having not commented on it. They then informed me that ANY back problems will no longer be covered, so I didn't even bother to attempt a claim a year later when I required further surgery for a re-herniated disc.

They have however been very reasonable with my (Thai) wife's needs & claims.

At the end of the day, ALL insurance co's are out to make a profit, and on average it is better to self-insure, if possible.

[Pormax]

Health Insurance - Beware of Hidden Clauses

There on pages 43 -46 was a list of procedures and the percentages they would pay. in some cases it was as low as 10%. For instance for a cataract operation they will only pay 50%.

So they weren't hidden, but the effort to read through it all was too much for you. Surely even in the enchanted UK Nanny State you're expected to request something in writing before signing a contract or handing over payment??

In the UK I feel this sort of practice would end up in the courts but TIT.

I recall having BUPA (British United Provident Association) policies for a number of years and having to wade through pages of information, codicils, limitations, stipulations to find what they would pay for various procedures, but I guess that's how Brits conduct their business as well.

if you read my post you would have noted that the blue folder containing the booklet and 50+ pages of policy with the clauses were not given and were not available in Thai or English at the time I took out and paid the money this was delivered to me about 2 weeks later and it was impossible to read through it all as it was all in Thai.

So yes I believe they are hidden and suggest this is deliberate.

[Sheryl]

I can understand that naming and shaming would leave TV open to litigation in Thailand. Maybe the mods should think about an 'off shore' site that members can access to warn others of these sharp practices? Or alternatively, 'rhymes with' or 'sounds like' references?

An offshore site is a brilliant idea. I believe EVERY foreigner here has bad experiences that he/she could share with other TV members. I know that I do! Lots of people could save lots of money and life would become more pleasant as well! Also, there is no need to limit such a reference site to bad experiences. Listing good experiences would be just as useful.

Finally, I think that ThaiVisa would become an extremely popular site!

Would the moderators kindly comment whether this is feasible?

No, it is not. Being "off shore"would not protect TV from prosecution under Thailand's draconian libel laws.

There is however no restriction to naming places/people in a positive light, and the type of feedback in this thread -- which does not in any way portray the company as having failed to live up to its obligations -- would also not be a problem.

[Sheryl]

Health Insurance - Beware of Hidden Clauses

I recall having BUPA (British United Provident Association) policies for a number of years and having to wade through pages of information, codicils, limitations, stipulations to find what they would pay for various procedures, but I guess that's how Brits conduct their business as well.

if you read my post you would have noted that the blue folder containing the booklet and 50+ pages of policy with the clauses were not given and were not available in Thai or English at the time I took out and paid the money this was delivered to me about 2 weeks later and it was impossible to read through it all as it was all in Thai.

So yes I believe they are hidden and suggest this is deliberate.

The decision to take out the policy and pay for it without first obtaining the booklet was yours. Surely there was no emergency that you couldn't have delayed this pending clarification of what the policy would cover?

As to the idea that the policy being written only in Thai is a deliberate attempt to conceal facts from non-Thai speakers I think that is rather far-fetched. Non-Thais likely account for a very small percentage of this company's policy holders and the lack of materials in English probably has more to do with the fact that they aren't specifically targeting foreigners.

[Pormax]

Health Insurance - Beware of Hidden Clauses

I recall having BUPA (British United Provident Association) policies for a number of years and having to wade through pages of information, codicils, limitations, stipulations to find what they would pay for various procedures, but I guess that's how Brits conduct their business as well.

if you read my post you would have noted that the blue folder containing the booklet and 50+ pages of policy with the clauses were not given and were not available in Thai or English at the time I took out and paid the money this was delivered to me about 2 weeks later and it was impossible to read through it all as it was all in Thai.

So yes I believe they are hidden and suggest this is deliberate.

The decision to take out the policy and pay for it without first obtaining the booklet was yours. Surely there was no emergency that you couldn't have delayed this pending clarification of what the policy would cover?

As to the idea that the policy being written only in Thai is a deliberate attempt to conceal facts from non-Thai speakers I think that is rather far-fetched. Non-Thais likely account for a very small percentage of this company's policy holders and the lack of materials in English probably has more to do with the fact that they aren't specifically targeting foreigners.

I understand what you are saying, but please read a previous post of mine where I stated that recently, 3 days ago, I went to the local office as I was willing to upgrade to the VIP cover but this time with the previous experience I had, I requested a look at the full policy to see the clauses. They could or would not supply this saying the policy is only written when you have accepted and paid the money.

There was no information on the agents laptop for him to show me.

Needless to say with this informationor or should I say, lack off, I refused to take out extra cover.

This applies to the local population as well as foreigners. So I stand by what I said in that this information is, I would suggest, deliberatley withheld.

.

[cooked]

.Advice: take the simple Thai Insurance for foreigners and book a private room in case of emergency. Cheap and efficient. Saving a lot money you are paying now to your precious insurance company

http://www.thaihealth.co.th/2012/index_eng.php

Good advice!

This link is absolutely useless, it is in Thai, and clicking on the UK sign does not change it.

Does

[banK]

I am in the throws of researching health insurance. I am soon to becoming 66 yo. Have been in Thailand for about 8 years without health insurance.

I have found Cigna (via their Glasgow office in the UK). One can apply at any age, and have had quotes for their International Health Insurance.

They have 3 plans - Silver, Gold and Platinum.

For what they cover - on the surface of it - it seems a very good deal.

If I go ahead with it I will probably opt for the gold plan (max limit 1,300,000 pounds). Many of the incidents are "paid in full", including cancer care.

The silver plan (max limit 650,000 pounds).

They also have other plans - Outpatient Plans, Visual and Dental Plans, and Repatriation Plans

You are able to continue the insurance until the day you "pop off". The premiums will probably increase around 3 percent per year.

There are a few questions I need to clarify before going with them, i.e. what happens if one gets cancer and then come to renew the following year - is it excluded or do the premiums increase and a couple of other questions.

The quotes I got were Gold with a 1000gbp deductible 220.35 gbp per month or 4% discount if paid annually

500gbp deductible 247.89 gbp per month " "

Silver with a 1000gbp deductible 176.28 per month)

500gbp deductible 198.31 per month) 4% if paid annually.

They say the they direct bill the hospital after the deductible has been paid.

The deductible is accumulative during the year of cover - i.e. if you have paid the deductible then thereafter they pay as per the benefit schedule.

[Sheryl]

Thanks for that info, very useful as there are many TV members having a problem getting insurance due to age.

Is the policy you describe IPD only, or both IPD and OPD?

[Jonmarleesco]

You have seemingly been conned, but I suppose that depends on how much the Thai agent [cousin] knew and how the information on his computer differed from that in the T&Cs. You could always consult a western lawyer, though for the amount you probably paid for the cover, I doubt it would progress far.

Just one reason it pays to be covered by a company that uses the English language and English law.

[Sheryl]

As others have said, the "agent" was probably more of a sales person.

Using an insurance broker, i.e. an independent person not working for any specific insurance company, is useful for those who find it difficult to sort through policy details.

And, only consider companies that are focused primarily on health insurance -- give life insurance companies, and others for whom "health insurance" is an add-on, wide berth. Ditto the "insurance" plans some banks offer.

[banK]

Thanks for that info, very useful as there are many TV members having a problem getting insurance due to age.

Is the policy you describe IPD only, or both IPD and OPD?

The plans that I was quoted for basically in patient/day patient. However there are several instances where outpatient charges are included, e.g. for cancer care and followup.