KBank 3 Mo. Money Seasoning Problem - Dont let this happen to you!

[exppenang]

I have had a K-Bank passbook savings account in Phuket for three years, and this is the account I *planned* on using to keep the required THB 800,000/three months on deposit before I do my 2014 retirement extension at Phuket Immigration. Previously, I had used the monthly income method, where I had to go to BKK, visit my embassy and do an income affidavit. This year I decided to skip BKK and try the THB 800,000 on deposit for three months. I thought it would be easy.

I topped my account up to 800,000+ THB about two weeks before the required three months seasoning date, but I didn't take the passbook and do an update on it right then (December 2013).

About ten days ago I updated my passbook at the machine, but the machine only printed transactions going back for sixty days. So now I have only two and a half months of 800,000+ showing in the passbook. I went inside the branch and asked for the letter to take along with me. The bank representative (Asst Manager) spoke very little English, he printed a letter in Thai showing my current balance. Three days later, off to Immigration I went with 9 left days before my current extension expires.

Inside the immigration office, the volunteers (who are always very helpful to me), spotted the 'problem' - even though the 800,000 had been in the account for over three months - the savings passbook didn't show any entries for December. They suggested that I go to KBank and try to resolve the problem.

So I went to Phuket town KBank, and asked for print outs of my last three statements.

This is when they informed me that 'their system' (at the local branch) can only go back TWO MONTHS! After two months, the account records *go to Bangkok* and If I want a printout to go back any longer, I have to fill up a form and wait ten BUSINESS days. This would put me over my extension expiry date by about 5 days.

So those funny looking computer machine thingy's in the KBank branch can only go back two months, but on the internet at HOME, I can go back a full SIX MONTHS. Are you kidding me? After much wrangling, and hearing the *Customer Service* rep tell me I should have known Passbook Updates only go back two months, and I should have known to come earlier and ask for the printout like *everyone else* does, she said she would help me, even though this problem 'not her fault'.

So after paying 200THB, they will call BKK and have the statements faxed 'only this one time'. 'You come back tomorrow, and get your statements.'

+++Lesson(s) learned+++

1. After you top-up your account to the THB 800,000, make sure you do a passbook update as soon as possible. Do not wait more than 60 days after the deposit to do the update, as older records will be buried in Bangkok somewhere (for KBank).

2. Customer Service at KBank (or possibly any other major Thai bank) is 20 years outdated. I find customer service doesn't really exist here - Thai bank staff are taught to 'follow the rules', and the entire system is designed to serve them not the customer.

3. Phuket Immigration are not there to 'Serve the Public' or even make you feel human. The immigration officer told me 'problem, bye-bye' and waved me off with a hand flick. Every other visit I have made to the Phuket office in the past went great, when I was using the income affidavit method.

I know I shouldn't be surprised by any of this - and indeed I am not - just disgusted.

[bulekee]

I do not know about your bank,I am with SCB,but from exoerience if you deal with a small branch then they do not have a clue.Once you establish yourself at a local branch (best you have your account there,then they can be more helpfull ).Thai's are not trained to think out of the box,it is no good trying to tell them because you will come up against Thainess.They have all your transaction's on computer,so you must insist they print them for you and offer to pay.They can do it,but when they tell you no,it is a loss of face.Good luck.

[Jingthing]

Yes this is definitely an issue with Kbank! Interestingly with my Kbank savings account I have the same issue with passbook updating but ALSO can only go back three months (not six) on the online bank statements. I am surprised yours goes back six. Good luck!

[curtklay]

Seems like common sense to bring your passbook when you make the deposit to top up. If you did it at an ATM, you should have gotten a receipt showing the date, amount of deposit, and new balance.

[Jingthing]

Seems like common sense to bring your passbook when you make the deposit to top up. If you did it at an ATM, you should have gotten a receipt showing the date, amount of deposit, and new balance.

Actually that would not have been good enough to prove the money seasoning. If there is any aggregate summing on your passbook it might be IMPOSSIBLE to tell from the passbook whether the money seasoning rule had fully been met. That is because the balance can't go one baht under 800K during period. It's easy to lecture people but the first time I saw aggregate summing on my passbook I was really shocked.

BTW, typically people top up their 800K qualifying accounts by SWIFT transfers from abroad, not at ATMs. Also ATMS aren't what immigration is looking for. They need passbook records or official bank statements.

Cheers.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Jingthing

[bulekee]

Not wanting to put the cat amoungst the pigeons,but you can insist they show all trasnactions at the branch.I had a similar problem 12 years ago and the bottom line was I was robbed by my partner.I do not want to suggest that your situation was the same as mine.But I did find when I put their back's against the wall they came up with the info.Again not wishing to spread doubt,but Thai's will protect Thai's.I suggest you track the money from your home bank and record the result,you will be surprised the difference in attitude.Good luck,I hate what they do.

[Jingthing]

I find the responses odd here. If the branch told the OP the further back records need to be sent from Bangkok and they are willing to get them from Bangkok but there is normally a delay to have that happen, why is that so hard to believe? I believe it. I see no logical reason why they wouldn't supply the records locally if they could and make up a lie about needing to contact Bangkok. Now if they told you it was impossible to ever get the records in any way, I would suspect a lie just to avoid work.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Jingthing

[bulekee]

I find the responses odd here. If the branch told the OP the further back records need to be sent from Bangkok and they are willing to get them from Bangkok but there is normally a delay to have that happen, why is that so hard to believe? I believe it. I see no logical reason why they wouldn't supply the records locally if they could and make up a lie about needing to contact Bangkok. Now if they told you it was impossible to ever get the records in any way, I would suspect a lie just to avoid work.

Remember you are dealing with Thai"s.Lying is not in there vocabulary.Believe (from bitter experience they back each other).But when you have proof they come up withthe info i.e. your bank against theirs.

[exppenang]

Seems like common sense to bring your passbook when you make the deposit to top up. If you did it at an ATM, you should have gotten a receipt showing the date, amount of deposit, and new balance.

Actually that would not have been good enough to prove the money seasoning. If there is any aggregate summing on your passbook it might be IMPOSSIBLE to tell from the passbook whether the money seasoning rule had fully been met. That is because the balance can't go one baht under 800K during period. It's easy to lecture people but the first time I saw aggregate summing on my passbook I was really shocked.

BTW, typically people top up their 800K qualifying accounts by SWIFT transfers from abroad, not at ATMs. Also ATMS aren't what immigration is looking for. They need passbook records or official bank statements.

Cheers.

Jingthing and Curtklay,

Thanks for your responses. I often find it helpful to stay tuned to this forum when I am getting ready to do an extension, and the info here has helped me tremendously. I always try to know 'the latest rules' and do my best to follow them to avoid problems at immigration.

This was my first time using the 800k/3 month method. Jingthing put it just right - this 'aggregate summing' on my passbook also shocked me, and that caused the problem. I use the 'no paper' option on my account, so I don't get statements mailed every month. At the time, I didn't see this as a problem, because I assumed if I needed a statement, I could just go to the local branch and have it printed. Of course, I expected to wait a day or two for them to do it, but ten business days (14 calendar days) seems ridiculously long to wait.

Yes, I used wire transfers to put the money in, and I just thought I would bring my passbook and do the update when I went to the bank for the letter. I try not to carry important documents (passport, passbook) around with me unless I need them right then, because I don't want to lose them. My branch is a small branch, and their ability to assist is limited by the language barrier (and truth be told the look on their face says they wish I would just blow away). Even though the rep at the Phuket Town branch moaned and complained about having to call BKK and ask for the fax, at least she (eventually) offered to do it. She did show me the computer screen which only showed the two month history - she even let me watch the screen when she tried to go back farther - and indeed records older than two months would not show up.

As for receipts for deposits, I do keep them until they show up on my account when I check it on the internet. After the deposits show on the internet, I toss the receipt. I doubt showing a deposit receipt at immigration would help anyway.

At Immigration, they are looking for specific things to prove the money was there three months before extension renewal and stayed there, and this must clearly show on the passbook. If it doesn't, you need three months of full statements to prove it.

Of course I will not let this happen next time - I will be sure and update the passbook *as soon* as the money is in the account, regardless of the method of deposit (cash at ATM, transfer, SWIFT). Had I known about KBank's two month limit and 'aggregate summing' on the passbook, this wouldn't have happened.

This is why I am posting the boring details, so hopefully other TV members can benefit from my experience, and not make the same mistake I did.

Cheers to all and happy extension renewing!

[Jack Mountain]

That you have to show your bankbook at immigration is new for me, i thought a bankletter would be enough ... something learned.

[Lite Beer]

Bank letter and passbook showing the same date and the same balance.

[Paul888]

Whilst it is annoying when transactions are lumped together when updating books, I think you actually need a real statement anyway as the bank book on its own is not sufficient.

As I understand it, how the Kasikorn system works is that the year is split into two six month sections running 1st Jan to 30th June and 1st July to 31s December. Branches have access to transactions from whatever day you go into the bank, back to either 1st January or 1st July but not before so if you go in on say 30th December you might get almost 6 months transactions but if you go in on 10th January, most you will see is 10 day's transactions although they can order you a hard copy statement for whatever period you want and it will arrive in about 3 or 4 days normally. You can also order this through the call centre, you just have to tell them which branch you want to pick it up from.

When you update the bank book inside the bank rather than through the machine outside, you will get itemized transactions back to either of those 1st Jan or 1st July dates and aggregated before.... even if you ask for fully itemized. They just can't do it.

I believe that the external machines will give you the most recent 20 or so transactions itemized and then aggregate the rest.

[ubonjoe]

The bank book is accepted by immigration and is preferred over any statement you get.

It does not matter if you use the machine or have a teller do the update it will not show any transactions older than 60 days at most if not all banks.

[JesseFrank]

This is when they informed me that 'their system' (at the local branch) can only go back TWO MONTHS! After two months, the account records *go to Bangkok* and If I want a printout to go back any longer, I have to fill up a form and wait ten BUSINESS days. This would put me over my extension expiry date by about 5 days.

They are clearly telling you porkies. I have had 2 year of transactions been printed out on the spot at Kasikorn bank.

[Gonsalviz]

Seems like common sense to bring your passbook when you make the deposit to top up. If you did it at an ATM, you should have gotten a receipt showing the date, amount of deposit, and new balance.

Seems easy enough to update your passbook at the time of the deposit, before 60 days is up and again just before you apply for extension. Not that difficult with branches all over place.

[moe666]

I am still wondering why it was the banks fault you didn't up date your pass book when deposits made leading to a series of issues which they did help you with although not to happy about. Whats that saying about the result of unintended consequence. And complaints are made about Thais not taking responsibility

Edited March 6, 2014 by moe666

[exppenang]

I am still wondering why it was the banks fault you didn't up date your pass book when deposits made leading to a series of issues which they did help you with although not to happy about. Whats that saying about the result of unintended consequence. And complaints are made about Thais not taking responsibility

Moe,

Somehow I see this slightly differently than you. I don't really look at it in terms of whose 'fault' it is. Passbooks (and indeed most paper based transactions) are almost a thing of the past, even in Malaysia. Why they are so dependent here on such outdated methods is quite obvious and a true in-your-face snapshot of how far behind Thailand is, even when compared to Malaysia.

The rule is 800k/3 months on deposit, most of us understand that part, and I complied with the rule. The point I am making here is that simply complying with the rule is not enough. There are certain steps you must take to prove to *the satisfaction of the individual immigration officer on any given day* that the money was there. To achieve this here in Thailand, you are therefore dependent on your bank to assist you. I was told a stamped printout was required regardless of the accompanying bank passbook.

Nearly every major Thai bank has funds on deposit from retirement visa accounts (probably a significant portion of the total). A bank system that mysteriously cuts-out and/or loses records that are only 3 months old (or even less if you read the post above) will create recurring problems for those of us who are still learning the ropes here. It is incumbent on the bank to keep proper records for you, and provide them to you in a reasonable amount of time. In today's financial system, 10 business days (12-16 calendar days) to receive a record is riduculous.

You can take your 'always update your passbook' to the extreme and go to the bank every time a small transaction occurs. How many times a week (or a day) would you be going there then? The point is if I had *known* about the sixty day limit, I certainly would have updated it sooner. If I had *known* my records were going to have a heyday in BKK, I would have known what to do.

Knowledge is power Moe.

It isn't about whose fault it is. It's about working together on this forum and sharing knowledge to help your fellow expat.

I do, however, thank you for responding.

[xylophone]

That you have to show your bankbook at immigration is new for me, i thought a bankletter would be enough ... something learned.

The immigration folk can do whatever they want depending upon their mood and if they take a disliking to you.

I had a bank letter and copies from my bank book going back 4 months, and the a....hole at immigration wanted copies going back ONE YEAR.

When I queried this he waved me away and said GO.

So I had to go back to my home in Patong to get this, and then he made me jump through hoops in getting multiple copies of my passport pages etc.............took me four hours in all.

All this because I refused to pay him 500 baht for having two passports (expired and new one). He tried to con me and it didn't work, so he made a simple process a nightmare for me.

He is still there and I will not use him, instead waiting for another place to become available.

[curtklay]

Living in Thailand is a never ending learning process. Just when you think you've got it figured out, something unknown and illogical comes to light and trips you up. Even when you know all the facts, you can be at the mercy of some "authority" who can interpret things to suit his mood. To our Western minds, it is incomprehensible and frustrating. It is called "Amazing Thailand" for the wrong reasons.

All we can do is plug away, and try our best to learn the process. I think we all learned something from this thread.

[steve73]

As I understand it, for future extensions you only need to show that the money has been in the account for 60 days, so you should be OK with a passbook update just before you need to extend..

Edited March 6, 2014 by steve73

[exppenang]

That you have to show your bankbook at immigration is new for me, i thought a bankletter would be enough ... something learned.

The immigration folk can do whatever they want depending upon their mood and if they take a disliking to you.

I had a bank letter and copies from my bank book going back 4 months, and the a....hole at immigration wanted copies going back ONE YEAR.

When I queried this he waved me away and said GO.

So I had to go back to my home in Patong to get this, and then he made me jump through hoops in getting multiple copies of my passport pages etc.............took me four hours in all.

All this because I refused to pay him 500 baht for having two passports (expired and new one). He tried to con me and it didn't work, so he made a simple process a nightmare for me.

He is still there and I will not use him, instead waiting for another place to become available.

Maybe I got the same guy! Can you give a description of him? Next time I will not use him either, and wait for the next one.

[xylophone]

Will send you a pm with description, as posting it here may be against TV forum rules.

[Jingthing]

As I understand it, for future extensions you only need to show that the money has been in the account for 60 days, so you should be OK with a passbook update just before you need to extend..

Incorrect.

FIRST time extensions require only TWO months of money seasoning (using the 800K method).

All subsequent ones require THREE months.

Cheers.

[slipperx]

Living in Thailand is a never ending learning process. Just when you think you've got it figured out, something unknown and illogical comes to light and trips you up. Even when you know all the facts, you can be at the mercy of some "authority" who can interpret things to suit his mood. To our Western minds, it is incomprehensible and frustrating. It is called "Amazing Thailand" for the wrong reasons.

All we can do is plug away, and try our best to learn the process. I think we all learned something from this thread.

I think you just have to expect to roll with it. Latest issue asked for Owner to submit Alien in Residence notification which seems to be the flavor of the month. Owner took several days to agree and I thought it wasn't going to get signed. I guess that would mean an expired visa and a whole new non-B application. Sheesh.

[MeowBundit]

After deposit, update your passbook immediately. The clerk is (impolite word self-moderated) must to do this for you! They have book printers.

[steve73]

As I understand it, for future extensions you only need to show that the money has been in the account for 60 days, so you should be OK with a passbook update just before you need to extend..

Incorrect.

FIRST time extensions require only TWO months of money seasoning (using the 800K method).

All subsequent ones require THREE months.

Cheers.

Thanks for correcting me Jt...and apols if I'd misled anyone.

I extended my retirement visa on Monday (3rd), with my Kasikorn passbook updated earlier that day (and going back to 8th Dec with summaries, i.e. just 85 days). I guess I was lucky to be granted the extension, given the OP's experience.

Edited March 6, 2014 by steve73

[exppenang]

Whilst it is annoying when transactions are lumped together when updating books, I think you actually need a real statement anyway as the bank book on its own is not sufficient.

As I understand it, how the Kasikorn system works is that the year is split into two six month sections running 1st Jan to 30th June and 1st July to 31s December. Branches have access to transactions from whatever day you go into the bank, back to either 1st January or 1st July but not before so if you go in on say 30th December you might get almost 6 months transactions but if you go in on 10th January, most you will see is 10 day's transactions although they can order you a hard copy statement for whatever period you want and it will arrive in about 3 or 4 days normally. You can also order this through the call centre, you just have to tell them which branch you want to pick it up from.

When you update the bank book inside the bank rather than through the machine outside, you will get itemized transactions back to either of those 1st Jan or 1st July dates and aggregated before.... even if you ask for fully itemized. They just can't do it.

I believe that the external machines will give you the most recent 20 or so transactions itemized and then aggregate the rest.

Paul,

Thanks for the info about ordering up the statements from the call center! Appreciate that ... this is a good way to skip the 30 minute long process at the bank of trying to explain what I want to the non-english speaker. The call center normally has English speakers available - easy to call and have them send to the branch.

[jack2964]

Oh dear I am in the same situation as OP. I too failed to update my passbook on bumping up the balance to satisfy the 800k/3mth rule and my renewal is due in a fortnight.

I logged into Kbank internet banking was able to get the Dec2013 statement showing the date my account has fulfilled the 800k rule. I got a printout of this statement and if I get my local Kbank manager to sign it would Immigration accept that?

Anyway thanks to Exppenang for the heads up, I think I'd better request BKK branch to give me some hardcopies.

[Jingthing]

Oh dear I am in the same situation as OP. I too failed to update my passbook on bumping up the balance to satisfy the 800k/3mth rule and my renewal is due in a fortnight.

I logged into Kbank internet banking was able to get the Dec2013 statement showing the date my account has fulfilled the 800k rule. I got a printout of this statement and if I get my local Kbank manager to sign it would Immigration accept that?

Anyway thanks to Exppenang for the heads up, I think I'd better request BKK branch to give me some hardcopies.

If I were you, I really wouldn't take that risk. Try to order account statement printouts right now ... try calling the help center and having them sent to your local branch. You want to show detailed transactions going back AT LEAST for the entire time of the seasoning period. Safer to have the entire year back just in case. If you act now, you can have all that, yes?

[captnhoy]

It seems that some of the replies here are a bit smug with a "you should have known" flavor to them. Those who truly know just what is needed would have to be psychic because there is no telling what that official will require of you. I've extended my retirement stay 6 times now and it has never been exactly the same requirement on any of those occasions. My branch of the bank even tries to tell me incorrectly what Immigration wants. "They no need letter - just book" . Riiiiight.