Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[P45Mustang]

JACC Media Release

16 April 2014—pm

The Autonomous Underwater Vehicle, Bluefin-21, was forced to resurface this morning to rectify a technical issue. While on deck, its data was downloaded.

Bluefin-21 was then redeployed and it is currently continuing its underwater search.

Initial analysis of the data downloaded this morning indicates no significant detections.

So what's new?

We already knew this. It's been posted previously.

Sorry P45M I did not see another posting. I'l look again for the previous post. Do you know the reason for this second time that it has automatically come back up - first time was depth problem, but this time they only said "technical issue" ?

Apologies tigermonkey.

I was incorrect. Your post was later information.

JACC very good.

[coma]

The man who led the search for aviation pioneer Amelia Earhart's plane in the Pacific Ocean has been critical of the Bluefin-21.

"I can tell you it didn't work for us," Richard Gillespie, founder of the International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery, told CNN

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/04/17/11/10/plane-search-rethink-within-a-week-pm

[webfact]

BLUEFIN-21
Mini-sub completes first full mission in hunt for Malaysian jet
Agence France Presse


File photo : EPA

Perth, Australia - A mini-submarine hunting for wreckage of a missing Malaysian airliner has completed its first full mission at the third attempt, officials said Thursday, as seabed data it retrieved was being analysed.

The first two attempts to scan the deep Indian Ocean off western Australia failed to produce any results.

The first dive began Monday night but aborted automatically after breaching the sub’s maximum operating depth of 4,500 metres (15,000 feet).

The second was launched Tuesday night and cut short Wednesday morning due to unspecified "technical" troubles.

"Overnight Bluefin-21 AUV completed a full mission in the search area and is currently planning for its next mission," Australia’s Joint Agency Coordination Centre (JACC) said.

"Bluefin-21 has searched approximately 90 square kilometres (35 square miles) to date and the data from its latest mission is being analysed."

The statement gave no other detail about the next dive or the technical issues of the previous forays.

Before the device was put in the water for the third time, data was downloaded from the vehicle while on the deck of the Australian vessel Ocean Shield, which has led the search for the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 that vanished on March 8 with 239 people aboard.

But initial analysis of the data indicated no significant detections, JACC said. The Bluefin’s first mission, cut short after just six of an intended 16 hours mapping the seabed with sonar, had also drawn a blank.

After more than three weeks of hunting for black box signals, the autonomous sub was deployed for the first time on Monday night.

The US navy explained that the Bluefin-21 had automatically aborted its first mission after six hours.

JACC added that it had "exceeded its operating depth limit of 4,500 metres and its built-in safety feature returned it to the surface".

The sub was undamaged and had to be re-programmed, said US Navy Captain Mark Matthews.

Two months to scan area

Questions have been raised about how deep the seabed may be in the search area where silt is also expected to be a problem.

JACC chief Angus Houston has stressed that the mini-sub cannot operate below 4,500 metres and that other vehicles would have to be brought in to cope with greater depths.

Houston had announced Monday the end of listening for signals from the plane’s black box flight recorders and the launch of the submarine operation.

The mini-sub is supposed to conduct a sonar survey of the ocean floor for 16 hours at a time, looking for wreckage from Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 which mysteriously disappeared en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. The dive takes two hours as does re-surfacing.

The US Navy has estimated it would take the Bluefin-21 "anywhere from six weeks to two months to scan the entire search area".

The area has been narrowed down using satellite data and the detection of electronic pulses from the black box which were last heard more than a week ago.

Houston has described those detections as the best lead in the hunt for the plane, and added Monday that an oil slick had also been sighted in the search area.

JACC said Thursday the oil sample had arrived in Perth for detailed analysis.

The cause of the plane’s disappearance, after being diverted hundreds of kilometres off course, remains a mystery. No debris has been found despite an enormous search involving ships and planes from several nations.

The visual search for debris also continued Thursday, JACC said, with as many as 12 aircraft and 11 ships involved over an area of 40,349 square kilometres (15,579 square miles) more than 2,170 kilometres (1,345 miles) northwest of Perth.


-- The Nation 2014-04-17

[catterwell]

BLUEFIN-21

Mini-sub completes first full mission in hunt for Malaysian jet

Agence France Presse

The second was launched Tuesday night and cut short Wednesday morning due to unspecified "technical" troubles.

The statement gave no other detail about the next dive or the technical issues of the previous forays.

The US navy explained that the Bluefin-21 had automatically aborted its first mission after six hours.

JACC added that it had "exceeded its operating depth limit of 4,500 metres and its built-in safety feature returned it to the surface".

The sub was undamaged and had to be re-programmed, said US Navy Captain Mark Matthews.

I understand the default action for the Bluefin-21 when "an exception" occurs is to give up and go home. The "exception" was to exceed to specified limit depth. I think they changed the programmed action to ignore and carry on. The manufacturer says the maximum depth is 4,500 m, but (with some risk) I suppose it could be pushed a bit further. I posted the manufacturer's website details earler, which includes some info on how the software works.

The whole thing can be run by one guy and a laptop running windows, by the way.

[Chicog]

There is technology that can go much deeper than that, so I don't see what the problem is.

Like I said before, get James Cameron on it, if he hasn't approached them already. Him and Clive Cussler love this <deleted>

[canman]

There is technology that can go much deeper than that, so I don't see what the problem is.

Like I said before, get James Cameron on it, if he hasn't approached them already. Him and Clive Cussler love this s**t.

The Remus is rated for 6000m

[balo]

There is technology that can go much deeper than that, so I don't see what the problem is.

Like I said before, get James Cameron on it, if he hasn't approached them already. Him and Clive Cussler love this s**t.

The Remus is rated for 6000m

Why don't they use it then ? The sea depth is more than 4500m .

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[tigermonkey]

There is technology that can go much deeper than that, so I don't see what the problem is.

Like I said before, get James Cameron on it, if he hasn't approached them already. Him and Clive Cussler love this s**t.

The Remus is rated for 6000m

Why don't they use it then ? The sea depth is more than 4500m .

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

AFAIK there are only 4 AUV in the world which are rated to 6000 meters. You are right, one of them is Remus in Germany. The other 3 are Abyss( USA, Wood's Hole), Autosub6000 (England) and Qianlong-1 (China) - all can be Googled. Based on nominal published capabilities and prior performance, Abyss would seem to be the best choice, but I had heard that it had not yet finished re-certification ( for depth) after recent refurburbishment and upgrade, that was about 4 months ago when I was at Scripps Institute in San Diego. I have no idea of the availability of the others.

[oldsailor35]

This search reminds me of the troubles of dealing with Russia's Kursk submarine, which sunk several years ago near the Arctic Circle. It took European equipment to get the job done. In this case, it's doubtful the Malaysians or the Chinese have what's needed. Revert to farang technology.

Oh i don't know. They have the Shaman and his basket, the farang don't even have that.

[coma]

Watching an interesting documentary on true vision's discovery channel called " Flight 370 : The missing links ". Giving a good summary and explanations of what happened leading up to its disappearance. Lots of aviation expert's with real faces giving good insight to the layman.

[P45Mustang]

How deep can a US nuclear sub go?

[CTO]

Deepest prob about 500 - 700 m

[P45Mustang]

Deepest prob about 500 - 700 m

Well that won't be much good then.

Remus and Romulus found the Air France plane in the Atlantic.

Not sure about the depth. But if Remus can go down to 6000, why are they fiddling about with Bluefin who seems to have problems at less than 4500?

[balo]

Deepest prob about 500 - 700 m

Well that won't be much good then.

Remus and Romulus found the Air France plane in the Atlantic.

Not sure about the depth. But if Remus can go down to 6000, why are they fiddling about with Bluefin who seems to have problems at less than 4500?

Maybe they're trying to save time and money ?

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[P45Mustang]

Doesn't look cost effective to me to stick with Bluefin.

How's about the PRC one certified to 7000?

Beijing could make a lot of capital by supplying it FOC.

Edited April 17, 2014 by P45Mustang

[laolover88]

Still makes no sense.

However deep the ocean the 777 is full of crap that floats. Someone want to assert that the plane is intact 2 miles down? I don't buy any of the so far aired 'conspiracy' theories/; though I think it is possible, for various reasons, the captain went 'amok'. In the absence of debris I have to conclude the plane is on land!

I think there is lots of inconvenient information that, one day, may or may not, emerge.

[davidstipek]

Still makes no sense.

However deep the ocean the 777 is full of crap that floats. Someone want to assert that the plane is intact 2 miles down? I don't buy any of the so far aired 'conspiracy' theories/; though I think it is possible, for various reasons, the captain went 'amok'. In the absence of debris I have to conclude the plane is on land!

I think there is lots of inconvenient information that, one day, may or may not, emerge.

Thank you! you have reflected, Something I find it hard to believe.. but inevitablely conclusive....

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed. It is generally accepted, but not written into law, that quoting the first two or three sentences of an article and giving a link to the source is considered “fair use” and not a violation of copyright.

[tigermonkey]

Deepest prob about 500 - 700 m

Well that won't be much good then.

Remus and Romulus found the Air France plane in the Atlantic.

Not sure about the depth. But if Remus can go down to 6000, why are they fiddling about with Bluefin who seems to have problems at less than 4500?

Not to be picky but Romulus and Remus were the mythical wolves that founded Rome.

For AF447 it was Abyss AUV doing the search and Remora ROV doing the recovery. Abyss is a Remus type of AUV, but the actual Remus is in Germany.

[tigermonkey]

JACC Media Release
17 April 2014—pm

At the recent media conference conducted by the Chief Coordinator of the Joint Agency Coordination Centre, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston (Ret'd), said that the Australian Defence Vessel Ocean Shieldhad detected an oil slick on Sunday evening in her current search area.

Preliminary analysis of the sample collected by ADV Ocean Shield has confirmed that it is not aircraft engine oil or hydraulic fluid.

Additionally, Phoenix International, with the assistance of Bluefin, have assessed that there is a small but acceptable level of risk in operating the vehicle in depths in excess of 4,500 metres. This expansion of the operating parameters allows the Bluefin-21 to search the sea floor within the predicted limits of the current search area.

Some media reports today state that it would take Bluefin-21 anywhere from six weeks to two months to scan the entire underwater search area. This is incorrect.

Since the US Navy provided comment some days ago, the underwater search has been significantly narrowed through detailed acoustic analysis conducted on the four signal detections made by the Towed Pinger Locator on ADV Ocean Shield.

This analysis has allowed the definition of a reduced and more focused underwater search area. This represents the best lead we have in relation to missing flight MH370 and where the current underwater search efforts are being pursued to their completion so we can either confirm or discount the area as the final resting place of MH370.

http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr026.aspx

[tigermonkey]

There is technology that can go much deeper than that, so I don't see what the problem is.

Like I said before, get James Cameron on it, if he hasn't approached them already. Him and Clive Cussler love this <deleted>

Clive will get Dirk Pitt on it right Away. It should all be done before Easter !

[maichai40]

Deepest prob about 500 - 700 m

Well that won't be much good then.

Remus and Romulus found the Air France plane in the Atlantic.

Not sure about the depth. But if Remus can go down to 6000, why are they fiddling about with Bluefin who seems to have problems at less than 4500?

Not to be picky but Romulus and Remus were the mythical wolves that founded Rome.

For AF447 it was Abyss AUV doing the search and Remora ROV doing the recovery. Abyss is a Remus type of AUV, but the actual Remus is in Germany.

Not to be even more picky, Romulus and Remus were children, not wolves (how could wolves found a city?).

[boomerangutang]

Doesn't look cost effective to me to stick with Bluefin.

How's about the PRC one certified to 7000?

Beijing could make a lot of capital by supplying it FOC.

If the Chinese had it, and it worked, it would be on the scene. They want desperately to at least appear as though they're useful in the search. Thus far, they've been marginal at best.

Personally, I don't have much faith in Chinese made tech. For starters, it's all copies of farang made items. I've bought faucets made in china and they crack and break at about 6 months. Similarly, power strips, power tools, drill bits and other items are less than well-crafted. I know that's a far cry from sophisticated equipment, but if their manufacturing can't make decent quality on the little stuff, how can we expect them to make good quality on the highly technical items?

[tigermonkey]

Well that won't be much good then.

Remus and Romulus found the Air France plane in the Atlantic.

Not sure about the depth. But if Remus can go down to 6000, why are they fiddling about with Bluefin who seems to have problems at less than 4500?

Not to be picky but Romulus and Remus were the mythical wolves that founded Rome.

For AF447 it was Abyss AUV doing the search and Remora ROV doing the recovery. Abyss is a Remus type of AUV, but the actual Remus is in Germany.

Not to be even more picky, Romulus and Remus were children, not wolves (how could wolves found a city?).

You're right , of course, they were only taken care of by a female wolf, after they were abandoned. My apologies - it's been more than a half century since high school. Actually, it was Romulus who founded Rome after he killed his twin brother Remus.

"how could wolves found a city?" - quite easily in a legend, but actually about as easily as finding MH370.

[tigermonkey]

Doesn't look cost effective to me to stick with Bluefin.

How's about the PRC one certified to 7000?

Beijing could make a lot of capital by supplying it FOC.

If the Chinese had it, and it worked, it would be on the scene. They want desperately to at least appear as though they're useful in the search. Thus far, they've been marginal at best.

Personally, I don't have much faith in Chinese made tech. For starters, it's all copies of farang made items. I've bought faucets made in china and they crack and break at about 6 months. Similarly, power strips, power tools, drill bits and other items are less than well-crafted. I know that's a far cry from sophisticated equipment, but if their manufacturing can't make decent quality on the little stuff, how can we expect them to make good quality on the highly technical items?

Yes, the Chinese have it and it works very well - Qianling-1 AUV, cerified to 6,000 meters. I have seen some of its results.

http://english.cas.cn/Ne/CASE/201311/t20131108_112311.shtml

There are 3 reasons not to use the Chinese asset:

!) the crew and equipment have little experience in a search mode;

2) the US Navy is very anxious to maintain a lead position in this high profile search; and

3) the language barriers to an efficient operation would be almost insurmountable.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Doesn't look cost effective to me to stick with Bluefin.

How's about the PRC one certified to 7000?

Beijing could make a lot of capital by supplying it FOC.

If the Chinese had it, and it worked, it would be on the scene. They want desperately to at least appear as though they're useful in the search. Thus far, they've been marginal at best.

Personally, I don't have much faith in Chinese made tech. For starters, it's all copies of farang made items. I've bought faucets made in china and they crack and break at about 6 months. Similarly, power strips, power tools, drill bits and other items are less than well-crafted. I know that's a far cry from sophisticated equipment, but if their manufacturing can't make decent quality on the little stuff, how can we expect them to make good quality on the highly technical items?

Yes, the Chinese have it and it works very well - Qianling-1 AUV, cerified to 6,000 meters. I have seen some of its results.

http://english.cas.cn/Ne/CASE/201311/t20131108_112311.shtml

There are 3 reasons not to use the Chinese asset:

!) the crew and equipment have little experience in a search mode;

2) the US Navy is very anxious to maintain a lead position in this high profile search; and

3) the language barriers to an efficient operation would be almost insurmountable.

You might consider the source of the above link. It sound like glorified propaganda to me and I doubt the little ling has any practical purpose.

[boomerangutang]

Doesn't look cost effective to me to stick with Bluefin.

How's about the PRC one certified to 7000?

Beijing could make a lot of capital by supplying it FOC.

If the Chinese had it, and it worked, it would be on the scene. They want desperately to at least appear as though they're useful in the search. Thus far, they've been marginal at best.

Personally, I don't have much faith in Chinese made tech. For starters, it's all copies of farang made items. I've bought faucets made in china and they crack and break at about 6 months. Similarly, power strips, power tools, drill bits and other items are less than well-crafted. I know that's a far cry from sophisticated equipment, but if their manufacturing can't make decent quality on the little stuff, how can we expect them to make good quality on the highly technical items?

Yes, the Chinese have it and it works very well - Qianling-1 AUV, cerified to 6,000 meters. I have seen some of its results.

http://english.cas.cn/Ne/CASE/201311/t20131108_112311.shtml

There are 3 reasons not to use the Chinese asset:

!) the crew and equipment have little experience in a search mode;

2) the US Navy is very anxious to maintain a lead position in this high profile search; and

3) the language barriers to an efficient operation would be almost insurmountable.

reason #1, Plausible. If so, then their equipment is not yet ready to deploy.

reason #2 The USN is not riding shotgun in the search. It is the Aussies, and they're using some US donated tech.

reason #3 They're all looking for wreckage deep undersea. Language barrier should not be an impediment. If you see something of interest, you (and others) decide whether it needs closer inspection.

[coma]

Doesn't look cost effective to me to stick with Bluefin.

How's about the PRC one certified to 7000?

Beijing could make a lot of capital by supplying it FOC.

If the Chinese had it, and it worked, it would be on the scene. They want desperately to at least appear as though they're useful in the search. Thus far, they've been marginal at best.

Personally, I don't have much faith in Chinese made tech. For starters, it's all copies of farang made items. I've bought faucets made in china and they crack and break at about 6 months. Similarly, power strips, power tools, drill bits and other items are less than well-crafted. I know that's a far cry from sophisticated equipment, but if their manufacturing can't make decent quality on the little stuff, how can we expect them to make good quality on the highly technical items?

2) the US Navy is very anxious to maintain a lead position in this high profile search; and

You are joking. Right ?

[tigermonkey]

Doesn't look cost effective to me to stick with Bluefin.

How's about the PRC one certified to 7000?

Beijing could make a lot of capital by supplying it FOC.

If the Chinese had it, and it worked, it would be on the scene. They want desperately to at least appear as though they're useful in the search. Thus far, they've been marginal at best.

Personally, I don't have much faith in Chinese made tech. For starters, it's all copies of farang made items. I've bought faucets made in china and they crack and break at about 6 months. Similarly, power strips, power tools, drill bits and other items are less than well-crafted. I know that's a far cry from sophisticated equipment, but if their manufacturing can't make decent quality on the little stuff, how can we expect them to make good quality on the highly technical items?

2) the US Navy is very anxious to maintain a lead position in this high profile search; and

You are joking. Right ?

No joke. From the outset, almost all of the technology employed in the search is either USA sourced or USA owned, such as search aircraft, towed pinger locater (TPL25) and AUV ( Bluefin). If the JACC were to suddenly announce that US technology was inadequate, and that they were going to use technology from other countries, the USA (US Navy) would be less than amused. Of course, this would not happen since the JACC and USA are joined at the hip.

Any thought that international politics and prestige are not a strong force in the background is truly naive - just the way it is - not right or wrong or good or bad.

[hawker9000]

2) the US Navy is very anxious to maintain a lead position in this high profile search; and

You are joking. Right ?

No joke. From the outset, almost all of the technology employed in the search is either USA sourced or USA owned, such as search aircraft, towed pinger locater (TPL25) and AUV ( Bluefin). If the JACC were to suddenly announce that US technology was inadequate, and that they were going to use technology from other countries, the USA (US Navy) would be less than amused. Of course, this would not happen since the JACC and USA are joined at the hip.

Any thought that international politics and prestige are not a strong force in the background is truly naive - just the way it is - not right or wrong or good or bad.

Oh, pul-lease! NOT "the way it is" at all. Get a grip. Is there no limit to this rubbish! "The U.S. Navy would not be amused". My sweet tukus.. Oooooooo - Seal Team Six is probably tracking you right now! Go find a table & hide under it. Quick!

Yes, it's a joke. A fairly lame one though.