Missing Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 239 triggers Southeast Asia search

[F430murci]

They said that about Air France and it cost $100 million. And now this. A simple change wouldn't break the bank.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They found Air France immediately after. They ultimately found the boxes. Good enough. Takes time to solve all air disasters and some are still questionable when they crash next to the air port ala Concorde.

I am not sure why people on here with no dog in the fight get so worked up and feel in a position to make demands about some that does not necessary concern them. If you don't like the way airlines do things or think its unsafe, don't fly. Very simple.

If they raised tickets to address ever single demand if the few, those unrelenting few would no doubt complain about the high cost of travel.

[retell]

I see today that the Royal Australian Navy search vessel has left the search area because the weather is getting too rough. Poor boys.

Back in the 50's i remember following an aircraft carrier in a destroyer, water was breaking over the carriers deck ! we did'nt run for home.

But that was the RN ( Real Navy )

Ah the one that the village people sing about

Send with Commodore 64

[Asiantravel]

They said that about Air France and it cost $100 million. And now this. A simple change wouldn't break the bank.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They found Air France immediately after. They ultimately found the boxes. Good enough. Takes time to solve all air disasters and some are still questionable when they crash next to the air port ala Concorde.

I am not sure why people on here with no dog in the fight get so worked up and feel in a position to make demands about some that does not necessary concern them. If you don't like the way airlines do things or think its unsafe, don't fly. Very simple.

If they raised tickets to address ever single demand if the few, those unrelenting few would no doubt complain about the high cost of travel.

Good grief And which member of your family came up with this priceless hypothesis?

I wonder if you would have the same sentiments if it was one of your family members that had been on board this missing flight ?

Why would anyone in their right mind cheerlead the continued reliance of an antiquated system of searching for a piece of equipment to determine what caused a crash when a live monitoring system can be installed inexpensively ?

[sunshine51]

Here's some info on what the families have to deal with...and it's not good...

from todays Sydney Morning Herald...

"Mr Abbott said many relatives of the 239 passengers and crew on board

the plane would likely want to come to Australia in the coming days.

''I want them all to know … that they will be in the arms of a decent country.

The government has decided to waive visa fees for any relatives wishing to

come to Australia.''

But in Malaysia, airline executives said relatives of the passengers and crew

aboard MH370 will not be granted visas to fly to Australia until any debris found

in the Indian Ocean is confirmed to be from the plane. Despite sightings of

suspicious objects on satellite images, so far nothing has been recovered.

However, a government spokesman said families of passengers and crew on

flight MH370 would be eligible for a visa free of charge from midnight on Tuesday."

Presumably the last sentence came from an Australian government spokesman.

Here's the SMH link...

http://www.smh.com.au/national/grieving-families-of-illfated-mh370-clamour-for-exodus-to-australia-20140325-35gio.html#ixzz2wz3eAPhL

[JesseFrank]

Here's some info on what the families have to deal with...and it's not good...

from todays Sydney Morning Herald...

"Mr Abbott said many relatives of the 239 passengers and crew on board

the plane would likely want to come to Australia in the coming days.

''I want them all to know … that they will be in the arms of a decent country.

The government has decided to waive visa fees for any relatives wishing to

come to Australia.''

But in Malaysia, airline executives said relatives of the passengers and crew

aboard MH370 will not be granted visas to fly to Australia until any debris found

in the Indian Ocean is confirmed to be from the plane. Despite sightings of

suspicious objects on satellite images, so far nothing has been recovered.

However, a government spokesman said families of passengers and crew on

flight MH370 would be eligible for a visa free of charge from midnight on Tuesday."

Presumably the last sentence came from an Australian government spokesman.

Here's the SMH link...

http://www.smh.com.au/national/grieving-families-of-illfated-mh370-clamour-for-exodus-to-australia-20140325-35gio.html#ixzz2wz3eAPhL

So in short : We found the plane and every one died, but 24 hours later we still can not confirm that we knew what we were talking about.

[balo]

China will not believe any info coming from Malaysia before they find evidence , dead corpses or debris in the ocean outside Perth .

I think Malaysias PM and the airline did a great job so far with the daily press briefings, and answering questions and critics from the media. They do not deserve all the negativity from the press.

[tropo]

Go ahead & flame me, but I'm still just a little skeptical that all this actually ended way down there west of Perth... 'Guess I'm a hard case.

If you think about it, the plane has gone down in the remotest area it could have reached in 8 hours. It's one of the most hostile, remotest areas on earth.

Coincidence? Or pointed in that direction?

Are you suggesting that the plane was taken somewhere, passengers got the customary bullet in the head, cargo unloaded, and then remotely flown in the back of beyond and crashed?

NO. We can dream up hundreds of scenarios.

[JesseFrank]

Go ahead & flame me, but I'm still just a little skeptical that all this actually ended way down there west of Perth... 'Guess I'm a hard case.

If you think about it, the plane has gone down in the remotest area it could have reached in 8 hours. It's one of the most hostile, remotest areas on earth.

Coincidence? Or pointed in that direction?

Are you suggesting that the plane was taken somewhere, passengers got the customary bullet in the head, cargo unloaded, and then remotely flown in the back of beyond and crashed?

If the plane had gone up twice to 45000 feet as reported earlier, with oxygen masks disabled, there would be no need for bullets.

[Tywais]

Go ahead & flame me, but I'm still just a little skeptical that all this actually ended way down there west of Perth... 'Guess I'm a hard case.

If you think about it, the plane has gone down in the remotest area it could have reached in 8 hours. It's one of the most hostile, remotest areas on earth.

Coincidence? Or pointed in that direction?

Are you suggesting that the plane was taken somewhere, passengers got the customary bullet in the head, cargo unloaded, and then remotely flown in the back of beyond and crashed?

If the plane had gone up twice to 45000 feet as reported earlier, with oxygen masks disabled, there would be no need for bullets.

There would also be no need to go to 45000 feet. At 35000 feet with the cabin depressurized you have 45 seconds of useful consciousness with no exertion and 20 seconds useful consciousness with exertion. To climb from 35000 feet to 45000 feet, which is actually above its service ceiling, would take much longer than that. So no point at all in going that route. The pilots oxygen supply system is good for around 15 minutes.

As for reports of dropping to 12000 feet, that is the standard altitude to reach in an emergency decent in case of cabin depressurization.

[davidstipek]

Go ahead & flame me, but I'm still just a little skeptical that all this actually ended way down there west of Perth... 'Guess I'm a hard case.

If you think about it, the plane has gone down in the remotest area it could have reached in 8 hours. It's one of the most hostile, remotest areas on earth.

Coincidence? Or pointed in that direction?

Are you suggesting that the plane was taken somewhere, passengers got the customary bullet in the head, cargo unloaded, and then remotely flown in the back of beyond and crashed?

NO. We can dream up hundreds of scenarios.

Tropo

Go back and read some of my Posts... along the same path as you.. Only here (Thailand) all of a sudden my internet was going on /off Thai language got installed on my notebook...wasn't there before! Virus program tracked an intruder twice and tried to block. Finnally I was sent from Virus Company in America and Europe a program to hide our connection. We totally Packaged HD and sent it to then to study. so nothing got erased... Its gone and they have already received it (So no hi-jack in delivery process!!) I have already installed new drive they sent me and online they have reinstalled all our clean Programs and Data!!

They wanted me to post this so "Someone" could read... and know they have been caught!! There was no issue prior to the MH370 incident and massive hits after. even more everytime I posed a comment. Yes so you know... up front I was here during Vietnam, I spent 363 days in Thailand as Military on aftive duty working for/assigned to a Contractor. Not disclosing anything I have a High degree of understanding how things Operate (ATC Controller). I think now back when I came here in 1965 I spent 1 day Vietnam, left for Thailand... 363 days here... back 1 day Vietnam and back to States. When I got back I asked were certin People were that I had gone over with and I was Told they died in VC attack the night after I left. Was this to try and keep me quiet? You guys think about it... I behaved and did my job... not even my parents knew!

Getting back to subject here, I know who! Virus Company Knows who... Microsoft know who also... On this site! No one has said or done anything contrary to the allegience to our Birth Countrys... who ever they are. We had nothing to hide here.

No one has spoke of... or very little about the abnormal Aircraft in South China Sea at time MH370 disapeared! (4 or more) Fire in sky could have been a hit by someone to pierce Cockpit to disable Pilots, not to down Plane then the AWAC's (Yes there was one in South China Sea just a little east and 10 degrees North of KL.) took remote operations of KH370. Some fancy flying to get controls zeroed in and disable the rest onboard.... So what do we do now?? Put2 and 2 together.... everything fits together nicely-depending who you are... Right?... Plane does everything they say it did... Except it was flown to D.C. all done remotely off loaded and launched again this time with fresh fuel and auto pilot set to ditch... Where suposedly no one would EVER find it. Did they find any Mangosteens... They will float and show up somewhere and we all know here in Thailand the husk (Skin) is 1/2 to 3/4 inch and with its oil very much like a sealed spong resist sinking almost float forever! Let's see who ends up with 3-4 tons on their Beach... We all know who ti Bill for Clean-up....

So if I disappear.... You all have my email in my personal section... It is funny that we had 3 computers and anywhere from 8-12 hrs apart their IP addresses were found and accesses were tried and attempted over and over after we blocked them out , after first couple days when we did get an intruder... now with line being secured My access is stealth. No this is not an add, trying to sell something... I just think things need to be told! I even tried to access a site that was blocked before (by we know who...) no issue connecting, but not my cup of tea!

Few typos fixed....

[tobf16]

search called off due to bad weather ,planes cant take off .but ships can get there.

the under water 3d scape is alarming for a search so could give a boost to technology to find it .

obviously black boxes are no longer up to the job .

It did surprise me that black boxes still only have power to last about 4 weeks - especially in the aftermath of the Air France crash.

It's only the ping (the locator) in the black boxes that has a limited time on the battery for approx. 30 days.

All the data in the boxes will still be there. It took a few years in the AF accidents to locate and recover the boxes, and all data were still intact.

[tobf16]

Go ahead & flame me, but I'm still just a little skeptical that all this actually ended way down there west of Perth... 'Guess I'm a hard case.

If you think about it, the plane has gone down in the remotest area it could have reached in 8 hours. It's one of the most hostile, remotest areas on earth.

Coincidence? Or pointed in that direction?

It's quite obvious that there is more than meets the eye. From the time the aircraft switched from KL control to Vietnam control it has cast suspicion upon itself. It flew in a way that suggests it was being piloted manually. One cannot deny it. Switching off instruments, making controlled/evasive turns. Flown to ensure it evaded Thai airspace by flying just south of the border. Fascinatingly close in some areas. Too convenient for a auto pilot to plot by itself.

The ghost ship theory only works for me as a result of whatever went on in the skies above the Andaman Sea and the greater Bay of Bengal

I think the clue to it is working out what happened between the plane leaving Malaysian airspace to the west and the next turn it made.

No matter how one looks at it "the rat smells to high heavens".

P.S Malaysian daily brief on live shorly

I saw a comment by an experienced (Australian) pilot saying that it was very likely on auto-pilot once it headed south-west over the Indian Ocean.

It is most likely. For that matter, the plane could be on all autopilot and maintain heading, altitude and speed until it ran out of fuel at which point the engines would stop and the aircraft fall out of the sky. The pilots wouldn't even have to be alive or in the cockpit.

[JesseFrank]

I saw a comment by an experienced (Australian) pilot saying that it was very likely on auto-pilot once it headed south-west over the Indian Ocean.

It is most likely. For that matter, the plane could be on all autopilot and maintain heading, altitude and speed until it ran out of fuel at which point the engines would stop and the aircraft fall out of the sky. The pilots wouldn't even have to be alive or in the cockpit.

I think "or in the cockpit" is one of the keywords.

[tobf16]

It's chilling to think of the possibility that any of the passengers might have remained conscious down to, or regained consciousness prior to, a water impact, if that's in fact what's happened. Having the overhead masks peter out with lethal levels of smoke or fumes in the cabin, or a plane full of dead bodies for several hours, or passengers awake and wondering what the heck is going on (for hours on end), all seem equally horrific. One way or the other, I'll bet Hollywood's already working on stories....

Go ahead & flame me, but I'm still just a little skeptical that all this actually ended way down there west of Perth... 'Guess I'm a hard case.

I simply can't imagine what the families have been going through.

And I believe what is adding further to this scepticism is the extraordinary way Malaysian authorities are refusing to hand over any information or evidence to Chinese journalists regarding their conclusion that the plane went down “ beyond reasonable doubt “in that location.

The official newspaper of China's ruling Communist Party, the People's Daily, said many questions remained unanswered, including why the plane ended up in the Indian Ocean and what exactly the new satellite evidence was.

China has demanded that Malaysia hand over the satellite data that led to its judgement.

In a meeting overnight, deputy foreign minister Xie Hangsheng asked Malaysia's ambassador to China, Iskandar Bin Sarudin, to provide the "detailed evidence" that led to the conclusion, China's ministry of foreign affairs said.

"We demand the Malaysian side state the detailed evidence that leads them to this judgement, as well as supply all the relevant information and evidence about the satellite data analysis," Mr Xie said, according to a statement on the ministry's website.

This has angered the Chinese journalists to such a degree, the Chinese government is sending a special envoy to Malaysia – “Chinese President Xi Jinping will send a special envoy to Kuala Lumpur to consult with the Malaysian government over the missing Malaysia Airlines plane, state news agency Xinhua said on Tuesday.”

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-25/malaysian-authorities-announce-mh370-lost-southern-indian-ocean/5328552

Getting a bit off track, but there is something truly ironic for the Chinese government to demand truthful statements from another government..... :-)

I think you forgot to high light Chinese

[F430murci]

They said that about Air France and it cost $100 million. And now this. A simple change wouldn't break the bank.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They found Air France immediately after. They ultimately found the boxes. Good enough. Takes time to solve all air disasters and some are still questionable when they crash next to the air port ala Concorde.

I am not sure why people on here with no dog in the fight get so worked up and feel in a position to make demands about some that does not necessary concern them. If you don't like the way airlines do things or think its unsafe, don't fly. Very simple.

If they raised tickets to address ever single demand if the few, those unrelenting few would no doubt complain about the high cost of travel.

Good grief And which member of your family came up with this priceless hypothesis?

I wonder if you would have the same sentiments if it was one of your family members that had been on board this missing flight ?

Why would anyone in their right mind cheerlead the continued reliance of an antiquated system of searching for a piece of equipment to determine what caused a crash when a live monitoring system can be installed inexpensively ?

If a family member was on board that flight, then I would be one of those that "had a dog in the fight." I would be upset if my family member was lost in a plane crash regardless as to whether the found the plane immediately or not.

There is nothing antiquated about the aviation industry. A 777 is high tech. This is an anomaly. I am not convinced there is an inexpensive, easy solution for any of this monitoring stuff. It is certainly not fact just because you say so or others on here that have nothing better to do with their time than listen to Alex Jones and constantly complain about the sad state of the world and oppressive government say so.

Okay, screw pilots. Lets go high tech and have robots fly planes as they do not get upset about wives, political strife or want to commit suicide. Where does it stop?

When is the last time boxes were not located and the cause of a commercial crash not discovered? NTSB does a good job. Airlines provide safe travel. Boeing builds safe jets. Accidents happen. The aviation industry is not slow to react to remedial measures that are logical and costs effective.

I am not cheerleading anything. I view this logically and objectively. I do not have some innate desire to blame pilots who may have acted heroically, blame a country who may be doing everything within their power to locate the jet or blame Boeing who may be using the latest and most reliable technology.

Why all this hype and focus on blame instead of feeling compassion for those family's impacted. Why the eagerness to blame a pilot whose wife is now a widow and children are without a father. You guys are messed up.

[F430murci]

If you think about it, the plane has gone down in the remotest area it could have reached in 8 hours. It's one of the most hostile, remotest areas on earth.

Coincidence? Or pointed in that direction?

Are you suggesting that the plane was taken somewhere, passengers got the customary bullet in the head, cargo unloaded, and then remotely flown in the back of beyond and crashed?

NO. We can dream up hundreds of scenarios.

Tropo

Go back and read some of my Posts... along the same path as you.. Only here (Thailand) all of a sudden my internet was going on /off Thai language got installed on my notebook...wasn't there before! Virus program tracked an intruder twice and tried to block. Finnally I was sent from Virus Company in America and Europe a program to hide our connection. We totally Packaged HD and sent it to then to study. so nothing got erased... Its gone and they have already received it (So no hi-jack in delivery process!!) I have already installed new drive they sent me and online they have reinstalled all our clean Programs and Data!!

They wanted me to post this so "Someone" could read... and know they have been caught!! There was no issue prior to the MH370 incident and massive hits after. even more everytime I posed a comment. Yes so you know... up front I was here during Vietnam, I spent 363 days in Thailand as Military on aftive duty working for/assigned to a Contractor. Not disclosing anything I have a High degree of understanding how things Operate (ATC Controller). I think now back when I came here in 1965 I spent 1 day Vietnam, left for Thailand... 363 days here... back 1 day Vietnam and back to States. When I got back I asked were certin People were that I had gone over with and I was Told they died in VC attack the night after I left. Was this to try and keep me quiet? You guys think about it... I behaved and did my job... not even my parents knew!

Getting back to subject here, I know who! Virus Company Knows who... Microsoft know who also... On this site! No one has said or done anything contrary to the allegience to our Birth Countrys... who ever they are. We had nothing to hide here.

No one has spoke of... or very little about the abnormal Aircraft in South China Sea at time MH370 disapeared! (4 or more) Fire in sky could have been a hit by someone to pierce Cockpit to disable Pilots, not to down Plane then the AWAC's (Yes there was one in South China Sea just a little east and 10 degrees North of KL.) took remote operations of KH370. Some fancy flying to get controls zeroed in and disable the rest onboard.... So what do we do now?? Put2 and 2 together.... everything fits together nicely-depending who you are... Right?... Plane does everything they say it did... Except it was flown to D.C. all done remotely off loaded and launched again this time with fresh fuel and auto pilot set to ditch... Where suposedly no one would EVER find it. Did they find any Mangosteens... They will float and show up somewhere and we all know here in Thailand the husk (Skin) is 1/2 to 3/4 inch and with its oil very much like a sealed spong resist sinking almost float forever! Let's see who ends up with 3-4 tons on their Beach... We all know who ti Bill for Clean-up....

So if I disappear.... You all have my email in my personal section... It is funny that we had 3 computers and anywhere from 8-12 hrs apart their IP addresses were found and accesses were tried and attempted over and over after we blocked them out , after first couple days when we did get an intruder... now with line being secured My access is stealth. No this is not an add, trying to sell something... I just think things need to be told! I even tried to access a site that was blocked before (by we know who...) no issue connecting, but not my cup of tea!

Few typos fixed....

Wow. Awesome stuff. This prove my point in the above post. Some of you guys are just straight messed up. Love it. Thailand certainly relieves the USA of some winners . . . Thank you Thailand.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Is there a SPECIFIC reason, my perfectly VALID posts,, Violating NO forum rules, are being deleted,, REPETEDLY!

Yes there is a specific reason. I removed two of your posts for containing profanity/inappropriate language and for being inflammatory in content.

That is at least two of the forum rules being broken.

Try reading them some time.

[SeaVisionBurma]

and yet ANOTHER conspiracy post removed.

[tobf16]

Trouble with the voice recorder is, it is a loop, so it records over "old" recordings.

Requirements is that it must be able to loop and record for 30 minutes but NTSB has recommended 2 hours. Either case,at the original loss of contact with the aircraft, the voice data for that time is gone.

Alt correct, the voice recorder will only hold the last 2 hours of sounds in the cockpit, however it could have been disconnected at an earlier stage, so it might not even give any usable data.

[tobf16]

Trouble with the voice recorder is, it is a loop, so it records over "old" recordings.

Requirements is that it must be able to loop and record for 30 minutes but NTSB has recommended 2 hours. Either case,at the original loss of contact with the aircraft, the voice data for that time is gone.

They must be using some pretty old tech to have that kind of time limitation. I can't imagine why they couldn't have the last several flights saved up as mp3 files in a bank of flash drives.

You could with the new tech as you mentioned, but normally at accidents, only the last period before a crash is interesting.

''Normally'' an accident doesn't take 7-9 hours, so you don't really need to have the last 4-5 flights recorded, but they might change the rules after this one.

[F430murci]

Trouble with the voice recorder is, it is a loop, so it records over "old" recordings.

Requirements is that it must be able to loop and record for 30 minutes but NTSB has recommended 2 hours. Either case,at the original loss of contact with the aircraft, the voice data for that time is gone.

They must be using some pretty old tech to have that kind of time limitation. I can't imagine why they couldn't have the last several flights saved up as mp3 files in a bank of flash drives.

You could with the new tech as you mentioned, but normally at accidents, only the last period before a crash is interesting.

''Normally'' an accident doesn't take 7-9 hours, so you don't really need to have the last 4-5 flights recorded, but they might change the rules after this one.

RE: Flight recorded

Are flash drives or other storage devices capable of withstanding the Gs and heat generated by a crash?

RE: Black Box or data recorders and uplink suggestions

While the technology may exist, there may be satellite upload bandwidth issues and security issues. I believe one proposal would be to limit uploading to only when an aircraft is encountering difficulties or pilots have concerns. Starting the upload may be last thing on a pilot's mind if a catastrophic event happens without warning. Then the NTSB would have zero hope of recovering any data ever. What if the plane loses connection or sending device goes out at the wrong time?

Another issue is costs. Assuming $ 100,000 per aircraft just for installation, airlines won't do this unless all airlines are required to do it. Does not sound like much, but airlines are very sensitive to operational costs and have to be to remain competitive. If there is to be a change, one would need to look to the NTSB, FAA or Federal Government to require that all carriers utilize the technology.

Streaming technology sounds good in principle. Perhaps this incident will force government agencies to work out the details or bugs and force all airlines to implement.

[GentlemanJim]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Interesting tidbit from Yahoo news regarding the hard drive of the captain. Seems pretty important,

but have not seen this in other media outlets yet. From what I have read the FBI has been very

quiet about contents on the hard drive.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-airlines-plane-mh370-captains-wife-faces-interrogation-132703796.html#nwdzHxV

"The hard drive of his flight simulator seized from his home was being examined. It emerged that programs on it were deleted and that he used it to practice extreme landings, including on remote Indian Ocean islands, such as the US air base in Diego Garcia."

Any pilot flying across remote parts of the Ocean as the MAS flights do on certain routes should always be thinking, 'where do I go now if I have a problem, where now if I have a fire, where now if I have a fuel problem'. Many pilots use the Microsoft suite of flight sim products to practice the procedures involved in diverting to remote unusual airfields. When you have an emergency and are burning or running out of gas you dont want to drain capacity thinking about where you are going and what the procedures are for the first time. So they practice...a lot. This guy had a simulator and the flights to the remote islands in the Indian Ocean etc could be a testament to his remarkable professionalism in wanting to prepare for the things you hope will never happen. That is maybe why there is nothing of any issue for the FBI or any other authority to make comment on it. Until evidence indicates otherwise, it tells me he was a professional dedicated Captain.

[hawker9000]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Interesting tidbit from Yahoo news regarding the hard drive of the captain. Seems pretty important,

but have not seen this in other media outlets yet. From what I have read the FBI has been very

quiet about contents on the hard drive.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/malaysia-airlines-plane-mh370-captains-wife-faces-interrogation-132703796.html#nwdzHxV

"The hard drive of his flight simulator seized from his home was being examined. It emerged that programs on it were deleted and that he used it to practice extreme landings, including on remote Indian Ocean islands, such as the US air base in Diego Garcia."

Any pilot flying across remote parts of the Ocean as the MAS flights do on certain routes should always be thinking, 'where do I go now if I have a problem, where now if I have a fire, where now if I have a fuel problem'. Many pilots use the Microsoft suite of flight sim products to practice the procedures involved in diverting to remote unusual airfields. When you have an emergency and are burning or running out of gas you dont want to drain capacity thinking about where you are going and what the procedures are for the first time. So they practice...a lot. This guy had a simulator and the flights to the remote islands in the Indian Ocean etc could be a testament to his remarkable professionalism in wanting to prepare for the things you hope will never happen. That is maybe why there is nothing of any issue for the FBI or any other authority to make comment on it. Until evidence indicates otherwise, it tells me he was a professional dedicated Captain.

Agree. Also, I think a lot of flightsimmers (including those who are not professional or real-world pilots) get a kick out of flying to the out-of-the-way, off-the-grid, challenging, remote airports just for the novelty of it as well (i.e., doing stuff in the virtual world they could never do in the real world). That this professional pilot was checking out Diego Garcia, a place he'd probably never visit in real life, doesn't surprise (or concern) me much at all. As for the deleted files, that might sound suspicious, but perhaps he was merely freeing up limited drive space, pruning his scenery library (or other simulator features) for performance reasons and/or wasn't particularly impressed with add-on scenery or add-on aircraft and just decided after he'd seen it/them to get rid of it.

Phonecalls, emails, & social networking msgs sent & received just prior to the flight seem much more worth looking into, but it should be done objectively (and with as much as sensitivity as possible toward his survivors) and not as part of a witch hunt or smear campaign. I think most professional pilots, should an aircraft being flown by them be involved in an extraordinarily tragic incident like this, with so much mystery surrounding it, would accept that their private communications are going to necessarily undergo some scrutiny.

[3NUMBAS]

AF cost 25 million to find the boxes,MH will cost 250 million and they may not be able to find them without a clue where to start

[Thai at Heart]

Sorry if this has been here before.

UK satellite operator used 19th century physics to trace missing plane

(Reuters) - Britain's Inmarsat used a wave phenomenon discovered in the 19th century to analyze the seven pings its satellite picked up from Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 to determine its final destination.

---8<---

From the time the signals took to reach the satellite and the angle of elevation, Inmarsat was able to provide two arcs, one north and one south that the aircraft could have taken.

Inmarsat's scientists then interrogated the faint pings using a technique based on the Doppler effect, which describes how a wave changes frequency relative to the movement of an observer, in this case the satellite, a spokesman said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/24/us-malaysia-airlines-inmarsat-pings-idUSBREA2N1OJ20140324

Can any physicist or anyone else figure out what they did?

The series of pings gave a certain distance, which could have only happened on two sets of arcs. Or I assume 4 sets of arcs, but the west side of the satellite was not in play.

How would the Doppler effect be different on the southern track versus the northern track? The shapes of the tracks did not appear to be symmetrical on a map, so I assume their satellites are not quite over the equator. Would that have anything to do with it? Is is related to the fact that the earth is not a perfect sphere and the satellite is slightly off the equator?

It was complicated. They knew it was on either a north or south line because of the time it took to reach the satellite. Then they used the Doppler effect and some clever trigonometry to work out whether it was going north or south.

Very clever bunch

[hawker9000]

Sorry if this has been here before.

UK satellite operator used 19th century physics to trace missing plane

(Reuters) - Britain's Inmarsat used a wave phenomenon discovered in the 19th century to analyze the seven pings its satellite picked up from Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 to determine its final destination.

---8<---

From the time the signals took to reach the satellite and the angle of elevation, Inmarsat was able to provide two arcs, one north and one south that the aircraft could have taken.

Inmarsat's scientists then interrogated the faint pings using a technique based on the Doppler effect, which describes how a wave changes frequency relative to the movement of an observer, in this case the satellite, a spokesman said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/24/us-malaysia-airlines-inmarsat-pings-idUSBREA2N1OJ20140324

Can any physicist or anyone else figure out what they did?

The series of pings gave a certain distance, which could have only happened on two sets of arcs. Or I assume 4 sets of arcs, but the west side of the satellite was not in play.

How would the Doppler effect be different on the southern track versus the northern track? The shapes of the tracks did not appear to be symmetrical on a map, so I assume their satellites are not quite over the equator. Would that have anything to do with it? Is is related to the fact that the earth is not a perfect sphere and the satellite is slightly off the equator?

It was complicated. They knew it was on either a north or south line because of the time it took to reach the satellite. Then they used the Doppler effect and some clever trigonometry to work out whether it was going north or south.

Very clever bunch

I thought I understood Doppler shift, but don't understand how it could be used to work out northern arc or southern arc either, as it seems to me both would have had identical slight "opening" relative velocities as observed from a geo-stationary satellite. But just because I don't have that particular technical understanding doesn't mean I don't accept its validity. I actually think this satellite data is, so far, the most helpful & reliable information available revealing what became of this flight, far more-so than indistinct satellite photos of floating debris and people claiming they saw something from 35,000 ft. It pretty much "cures me" of the landed-in-Pakistan-or-Iran theory, for now...

[RubbaJohnny]

Why would the Maly woman or Maldive islanders indpendently fabricate lies,we know state agencies do all the time.

As for 6 mile vision we can see the stars ask any sea caprain 6 miles in good light would easily allow someone to see a 200ft aircraft as I see local flights from Laos 5 miles away daily

[canuckamuck]

Requirements is that it must be able to loop and record for 30 minutes but NTSB has recommended 2 hours. Either case,at the original loss of contact with the aircraft, the voice data for that time is gone.

They must be using some pretty old tech to have that kind of time limitation. I can't imagine why they couldn't have the last several flights saved up as mp3 files in a bank of flash drives.

You could with the new tech as you mentioned, but normally at accidents, only the last period before a crash is interesting.

''Normally'' an accident doesn't take 7-9 hours, so you don't really need to have the last 4-5 flights recorded, but they might change the rules after this one.

RE: Flight recorded

Are flash drives or other storage devices capable of withstanding the Gs and heat generated by a crash?

RE: Black Box or data recorders and uplink suggestions

While the technology may exist, there may be satellite upload bandwidth issues and security issues. I believe one proposal would be to limit uploading to only when an aircraft is encountering difficulties or pilots have concerns. Starting the upload may be last thing on a pilot's mind if a catastrophic event happens without warning. Then the NTSB would have zero hope of recovering any data ever. What if the plane loses connection or sending device goes out at the wrong time?

Another issue is costs. Assuming $ 100,000 per aircraft just for installation, airlines won't do this unless all airlines are required to do it. Does not sound like much, but airlines are very sensitive to operational costs and have to be to remain competitive. If there is to be a change, one would need to look to the NTSB, FAA or Federal Government to require that all carriers utilize the technology.

Streaming technology sounds good in principle. Perhaps this incident will force government agencies to work out the details or bugs and force all airlines to implement

Currently the data is being recorded on a tape deck. Do you really think it has an advantage in a crash scenario over a tiny piece of solid state tech that could be shielded from impact, fire, water, and G-force much more easily. and could have multiple redundant backups. A 32 GB thumb-drive is about 10 bucks these days.

As far as uplink goes, they already have ACARS, which sends text messages I believe. The bandwidth it uses is insignificant. I am just talking about beefing it up a little. No need for the pilot to think about it, He doesn't need to worry about ACARS does he?

And in addition to the black box upgrades, they need to have an indestructible beacon that jettisons in any impact, like an airbag. This device should float, and have the capability to send text messages to the airline head office (or whoever) by Sat phone (Including GPS coordinates, and ID) They only need to get one text and the Sat company will have everything in record. This is instead of trying to find a sonar ping at the bottom of the ocean.

Seriously, the 777 is high tech but the black boxes and recovery system appear to be circa 1965.

[coma]

The captain of flight MH370 was facing serious family problems, including separation from his wife and problems with another woman he was seeing, according to a long-time associate who believes he may have taken the Boeing 777 for a "last joyride" before crashing into the Indian Ocean.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/26/07/28/mh370-pilot-captain-zaharie-ahmad-shah-no-state-of-mind-to-fly-friend

[boomerangutang]

Why all this hype and focus on blame instead of feeling compassion for those family's impacted. Why the eagerness to blame a pilot whose wife is now a widow and children are without a father. You guys are messed up.

The couple were split up but still living in the same place.

The following is from the Yahoo article

The hard drive of his flight simulator seized from his home was being examined. It emerged that programmes on it were deleted and that he used it to practise extreme landings, including on remote Indian Ocean islands, such as the US air base in Diego Garcia.

Another development, reported in the Mail on Sunday, was that investigators were examining reports of a two-minute call from a mystery woman Shah received before the plane took off.

The mobile phone number was allegedly obtained under a false identity. The Sim card was said to have been trace to a number in Kuala Lumpur.

The timing of the call intensified scrutiny on Shah to establish whether missing MH370 flight was involved in a hijacking attempt or a catastrophic accident.

Malaysian police denied the claims saying the paper has not been privy to details of the investigation.

A police spokesman said: "The Inspector-General of Police has never issued any public statement that categorically place the MH370 investigation under an act of terrorism.

Malaysian authorities are very reluctant to reveal any info which may implicate one of their own in a possible terrorist scenario - particularly any info which might show the pilot was planning a suicide/mass murder. It's identical to Egyptian authorities refusing to acknowledge that one of their brethren, the pilot of an Egypt Air flight - was shown to be a suicide/mass murder - from evidence of investigations.

All significant data (in the Malaysian Air disaster) which points to possible pilot suicide/murder will come from farang investigations, not from Malaysian authorities.