One rotten apple in the barrel (village)

[Naam]

and they laughed when i bought a condo..............

they are still laughing

[chickenslegs]

Assuming that the village has been legally established and registered, your village rules and regulations are fully supported by Thai legislation.

Take a look at the rules & regulations - the procedure to be followed in the event of non payment of fees will be described there.

The procedure may vary according to how your village was formed/registered and under which piece of legislation.

The procedure will probably include warning notices being sent at specified periods, followed by fines being imposed, followed by restrictions regarding use of common areas and facilities, followed by seizure of the title deeds (chanot) by the Land Office (to prevent the owner from selling the property until the fees are paid).

There will, almost certainly, be an option to commence legal proceedings to recover the debt through the provincial court (small claims procedure). But, unless one of the committee members is willing/able to submit the case himself, you will need to employ a lawyer, which will probably cost more than the amount owed.

However, it might be worth the expense just to send a message to other freeloaders.

Of course, the owner may decide to pay rather than be taken to court.

[jacko45k]

and they laughed when i bought a condo..............

Where only 49% pay all the maintenance fees!

[DisparateDan]

Likewise many have never paid their maintenance at my condo, and from ny understanding the management feel the debtors will "lose face" if confronted.

I would like to sell the debt at any discount to someone with less sensitivity, but nothing will be done.

Edited March 13, 2014 by DisparateDan

[thailand49]

Most of everything especially all the legal stuff is just that? I had a Real Estate License in the States for years and have seen a number of Condos agreements here and understand as you call it " A VILLAGE " which is basically what I call a Gated community? This is very common when you have Thais living in them? it is even worse when the majority of them are Thais and even worse when the development is of lower class? Hate to think like that but time and time again it comes down to that.

My views coming is from my own experience dealing with a problem that my brother had in his so call village. Basically what not being paid is the development dues like in a Condo. it only takes one but that one can destroy the whole place. In Pattaya, one call see these throughout Pattaya where there use to be a attendant in front in their security box now it is abandon? The is usually the last part of dues not being paid.

It starts with one that the others get a wind of it others join in not to paid. There are rules to this but like the helmet law not being enforced the management company or developer is too weak or stupid to deal with the problem! That being said don't get yourself into it let the Thais deal and although nothing is being done because Thai want someone else to deal with it and when they get sick and tired of the problem they will act. What you need to do is deal with your own situation make sure everything is in order. This is a situation where the developer has promise service when they sold the property in the village and not don't have the ball to act and protect the property owner investment. Legally in most places a lawsuit would make them to act? But in Thailand it will end up being you and everyone including your girlfriend or Thai wife is going to blame you for being a shit disturber?

In time you will see especially the Farang moving out and selling at a lost.. property unable to be rented.. then the street lights will be turn off.. the story goes on so will the security and when that is gone the rats will come out and play? so shore up the security of your house?

If your utilities are paid separately by you continue to do so but stop paying the Village dues? because most likely many have already. so the best you can do is keep up your place and watch and listen as to what the others or doing.

Good luck...but not good...

[Berkshire]

Assuming that the village has been legally established and registered, your village rules and regulations are fully supported by Thai legislation.

Take a look at the rules & regulations - the procedure to be followed in the event of non payment of fees will be described there.

The procedure may vary according to how your village was formed/registered and under which piece of legislation.

The procedure will probably include warning notices being sent at specified periods, followed by fines being imposed, followed by restrictions regarding use of common areas and facilities, followed by seizure of the title deeds (chanot) by the Land Office (to prevent the owner from selling the property until the fees are paid).

There will, almost certainly, be an option to commence legal proceedings to recover the debt through the provincial court (small claims procedure). But, unless one of the committee members is willing/able to submit the case himself, you will need to employ a lawyer, which will probably cost more than the amount owed.

However, it might be worth the expense just to send a message to other freeloaders.

Of course, the owner may decide to pay rather than be taken to court.

I agree that the association must have some kind of by-law that specifies corrective action in situations such as this. The association (or management company, if you have one) should send the deadbeats an official letter detailing the consequences of not paying their fees. Legal action could and should be pursued. As another poster said, if this gets around that one can refuse to pay the maintenance fee with impunity, it absolutely will become contagious.

[canman]

You mentioned they use the pool alot. Use some of that million baht to secure the pool and restrict access with a lock; only rate payers get a key. This would only be fair as only the people paying the rates are paying for the maintenance of the pool.

[gmac]

You mentioned they use the pool alot. Use some of that million baht to secure the pool and restrict access with a lock; only rate payers get a key. This would only be fair as only the people paying the rates are paying for the maintenance of the pool.

Or do what my old village did and charge those that don't pay maintenance a fee to use the pool. Issue membership cards to those who have paid their fees and insist on the card being presented each time the pool is used.

Edited March 14, 2014 by gmac

[giddyup]

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Or do what my old village did and charge those that don't pay maintenance a fee to use the pool. Issue membership cards to those who have paid their fees and insist on the card being presented each time the pool is used.

You mentioned they use the pool alot. Use some of that million baht to secure the pool and restrict access with a lock; only rate payers get a key. This would only be fair as only the people paying the rates are paying for the maintenance of the pool.

Wouldn't that require a full-time person standing by the gate to the pool at least 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, checking cards?

[giddyup]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You mentioned they use the pool alot. Use some of that million baht to secure the pool and restrict access with a lock; only rate payers get a key. This would only be fair as only the people paying the rates are paying for the maintenance of the pool.

Might work, but we'd need to put a security gate on the pool.

[giddyup]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Most of everything especially all the legal stuff is just that? I had a Real Estate License in the States for years and have seen a number of Condos agreements here and understand as you call it " A VILLAGE " which is basically what I call a Gated community? This is very common when you have Thais living in them? it is even worse when the majority of them are Thais and even worse when the development is of lower class? Hate to think like that but time and time again it comes down to that.

My views coming is from my own experience dealing with a problem that my brother had in his so call village. Basically what not being paid is the development dues like in a Condo. it only takes one but that one can destroy the whole place. In Pattaya, one call see these throughout Pattaya where there use to be a attendant in front in their security box now it is abandon? The is usually the last part of dues not being paid.

It starts with one that the others get a wind of it others join in not to paid. There are rules to this but like the helmet law not being enforced the management company or developer is too weak or stupid to deal with the problem! That being said don't get yourself into it let the Thais deal and although nothing is being done because Thai want someone else to deal with it and when they get sick and tired of the problem they will act. What you need to do is deal with your own situation make sure everything is in order. This is a situation where the developer has promise service when they sold the property in the village and not don't have the ball to act and protect the property owner investment. Legally in most places a lawsuit would make them to act? But in Thailand it will end up being you and everyone including your girlfriend or Thai wife is going to blame you for being a shit disturber?

In time you will see especially the Farang moving out and selling at a lost.. property unable to be rented.. then the street lights will be turn off.. the story goes on so will the security and when that is gone the rats will come out and play? so shore up the security of your house?

If your utilities are paid separately by you continue to do so but stop paying the Village dues? because most likely many have already. so the best you can do is keep up your place and watch and listen as to what the others or doing.

Good luck...but not good...

Might be time to invest in a couple of Dobermans.

[JesseFrank]

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Assuming that every house has its individual rubbish bin, it would be good to inform the company that empties them that 2 houses are exempted from that service.

That crossed my mind as well, but I guess the defaulters in question can make a cash payment to the council to cover their rubbish removal. I think that's a really paltry amount, like 40 baht a month.

The city garbage collection doesn't service private villages, so your garbage collector is a private company, to which you dictate which houses he serves and which not.

[giddyup]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Assuming that every house has its individual rubbish bin, it would be good to inform the company that empties them that 2 houses are exempted from that service.

That crossed my mind as well, but I guess the defaulters in question can make a cash payment to the council to cover their rubbish removal. I think that's a really paltry amount, like 40 baht a month.

The city garbage collection doesn't service private villages, so your garbage collector is a private company, to which you dictate which houses he serves and which not.

Already looked into that, but I think the non-payers can make a cash payment every month for their garbage collection.

[JesseFrank]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Assuming that every house has its individual rubbish bin, it would be good to inform the company that empties them that 2 houses are exempted from that service.

That crossed my mind as well, but I guess the defaulters in question can make a cash payment to the council to cover their rubbish removal. I think that's a really paltry amount, like 40 baht a month.

The city garbage collection doesn't service private villages, so your garbage collector is a private company, to which you dictate which houses he serves and which not.

Already looked into that, but I think the non-payers can make a cash payment every month for their garbage collection.

The village committee decides which company collects the garbage, so it decides also if that company accepts cash payments from individuals or if the company will be changed.

[giddyup]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Assuming that every house has its individual rubbish bin, it would be good to inform the company that empties them that 2 houses are exempted from that service.

That crossed my mind as well, but I guess the defaulters in question can make a cash payment to the council to cover their rubbish removal. I think that's a really paltry amount, like 40 baht a month.

The city garbage collection doesn't service private villages, so your garbage collector is a private company, to which you dictate which houses he serves and which not.

Apparently the garbage collector was given instructions to ignore the non-payer in the future. He didn't get told until after he'd alreaady emptied their bin, but hopefully will ignore it in the future.

[gmac]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Or do what my old village did and charge those that don't pay maintenance a fee to use the pool. Issue membership cards to those who have paid their fees and insist on the card being presented each time the pool is used.

You mentioned they use the pool alot. Use some of that million baht to secure the pool and restrict access with a lock; only rate payers get a key. This would only be fair as only the people paying the rates are paying for the maintenance of the pool.

Wouldn't that require a full-time person standing by the gate to the pool at least 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, checking cards?

Don't know how your village is laid out, with ours you had to pass the office to get to the pool so it wasn't a problem.

[Munger]

When I was a rep for tenants in my block of flats in London the anti-social minority were the bain of the Committees life (these Tower-bridge apartments rented out for GBP 2,500 plus a month!). People who just refused to pay their due fees and put up ridiculous smoke screens.

I suspect it's a world-wide phenomenon. 1%+ of the population are @rse'oles and always will be.

Isn't the standard T-V response from the internet tough guys to physically confront the scoffaws and demand sarisfaction.

NO," the standard T-V response" is " its the same as the UK"

[bkkjames]

Buy one of those mossie zapping lights and present it to them as a gift.

They will thank you ....and wonder why every bug in the moo baan is showing up at their house on a nightly basis.

[piston broke]

overall its going to be much easier to apply pressure to a non payer in a condo than a non payer in a house.

When you sell a condo, you need a certificate of no debt from the condo JP.

You won't get your certificate until you clear your account.

No certificate, no sale.

You don't need anything like this to sell a house.

[ThaiBob]

overall its going to be much easier to apply pressure to a non payer in a condo than a non payer in a house.

When you sell a condo, you need a certificate of no debt from the condo JP.

You won't get your certificate until you clear your account.

No certificate, no sale.

You don't need anything like this to sell a house.

You sure about that? Even if the developer registered the village at the Land Office and all the rules, regulations, covenants, etc.? We are not talking about a single family house outside a village. If what you say is true then a lien on the property should be filed with the Land Office.

[anotheruser]

Punishment???????? You could cut the powerline to their meter as well as cut the water supply to their house.....this is quick and very do-able.....wear some heavy rubber gloves for the electric

If you can locate the main drain pipe to the home....you could plug it with concrete....and sit back and wait for the plumbing visit

You can squirt super glue into any accessible lock to the home

....or isn't this what you had in mind?

These things could also quite obviously be illegal.

[Satcommlee]

Name and shame board.

Put a large map of the site somewhere near the entrance to the estate, highlighting green houses who have paid and red houses who have not paid..

Nothing like loss of face to help people comply.

[giddyup]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Name and shame board.

Put a large map of the site somewhere near the entrance to the estate, highlighting green houses who have paid and red houses who have not paid..

Nothing like loss of face to help people comply.

I suggested that, but the Thais who are on the committee are frightened of the repercussions. I don't know what that might entail, but I guess they don't want to find out.

[kurnell]

Every village/moobaan has this problem. Best to hurl the occasional turd just to release the tension and get on with life.

[leeroy221]

Every answer i could think of has been mentioned numerous times. I'm not trying to put down the OP but every answer provided has had a reply of tried that, cant do that, that would then cause 'x' problem etc.

Again, already mentioned but in the contract there must be a policy laid out for such problems. Taking this, or grtting the commitee to go to the land office would be my next step. I see the problem though, it would appear they do not have the balls to do so because of maybe some repercussion. If this is the case then you really are stuck.

Sorry

[Spaniel]

I live in a gated community in Bangkok of 105 houses and we have one Thai family that refuses to pay the yearly maintenance fee. They weren't issued a vehicle sticker so when they enter they must turn in their ID. Also if they should decide to sell their house then they need a document from the community office to submit to the land office stating they have no financial obligations. So to get this letter they will have to pay all back maintenance fees.

[prk888]

I recall to my cost and aggravation that if vehicles were parked "illegally" in UK then a large-very-difficult-to-remove-sticker was stuck on my front windscreen (driver's side) and also driver's side window with a suitable message . I only had it happen to me once but never parked there again !!

[topt]

This issue has been reported on TV on a number of occasions with never any real results reported back.

The village I am in also has this problem although we have about 6 non payers out of 50 odd houses. Supposedly Liens have been registered at the land office on the serial non payers and the largest single outstanding amount was eventually paid when the then owner sold. This does not help much if however the owner has no intention of ever selling.

The village have tried to put in place a sticker system for vehicles with non sticker owners and visitors having to leave ID but this is a bit hit and miss at the moment. If we had a stronger Chair and JP then this could be enforced better. Also the garbage is not collected from the houses that have not paid and they have to deal with it themselves. Other than this the committee could not agree on any other measures to take at the last AGM. This in itself was a result as it has taken three AGMs that I have been present at just to get these measure put in place. The village also tried the board to name and shame but that did not last long and seemingly had no effect.

The suggestion which was not acted on straight away is to try and restrict access of vehicles of those not paying as they are driving over "village" roads to reach their property. Legally this seemed to be an unknown when it was discussed.

As others have said I see the biggest issue potentially if others follow suit and decide not to pay in the future.

[NanLaew]

Every answer i could think of has been mentioned numerous times. I'm not trying to put down the OP but every answer provided has had a reply of tried that, cant do that, that would then cause 'x' problem etc.

Again, already mentioned but in the contract there must be a policy laid out for such problems. Taking this, or grtting the commitee to go to the land office would be my next step. I see the problem though, it would appear they do not have the balls to do so because of maybe some repercussion. If this is the case then you really are stuck.

Sorry

I do not see the OP as having a problem with these non-payers as much as I see this very weak 'Committee' having absolutely no interest in carrying out their stated responsibilities. Yes, I have been around these traps long enough to appreciate that 'money talks' which allows some to lord it over others and even local Government officers to bow and scrape.

Get a hold of the Committee's 'statement of obligations' (or whatever its legal name is) and ascertain via a lawyer, exactly what the Committee legally can and cannot do. If they are failing their legal obligations by simply acquiescing to some cultural pressures, then retain the lawyer to file against the Committee for dereliction of duty. Force the Committee to do their job instead of trying to do their job for them. You may not make any friends in the Committee but to be honest, their apparent need to remain friendly with someone who is abusing the rules that their neighbours wish to respect is nauseating.

Just remember, don't bring a knife to a gun fight.