My 6 month conclusions on Thailand (and the women)

[Scarpolo]

when you've had over 30yrs experience of Thailand then you can come to some conclusions.

6months doesnt give you time to wet your whistle.

I seriously doubt anyone will want the conclusions of an 84 year old, 30 years from now,

for those new to thailand, 3 weeks to 18 weeks, my offering can be of value,

to those who are old timers, you have heard it all before, but consider others, with less time to decide what 6 months is of value, and FWIW,

I didnt come on a shoe string, and I leave with more financially than when I arrived thanks to the beginning phase of the second leg, of the major bull market in gold

[crazydrummerpauly]

One of the funniest things i ever read on TV : "I found the people here honest and without aggression." I love a good laugh !!!

[faraday]

It's good to see some positive reflections & opinions.....for a change.

What amazes me though on here & everywhere else is when people say that & 'due to experience & time spent in such & such as situation' they now understand more.

Of course this is true to a certain extent as we do learn, & with this learning we also change, then we revaluate the situation based on this.

Have a good trip back, be happy & stay healthy.

[joshstiles]

6 months here = 6 months experienc.......but in no way could you possibly gotten to know the entire "thailand world"....you received a snapshot of life in thailand and although there are wonderful honest girls in thailand.....I have serious doubt that you found one (given the profession). These girls are first and foremost highly skilled in the art of deception. Don't be so ignorant.....it was all about your money or she would not have been with you....step back once and see the much bigger picture which takes more than six months to see. Try a long term study of a 10 year timeframe....I am sure you will draw different conclusions. Good luck back in Amerfukya....nothing has changed. I man of your age should already know you don't teach an old dog new tricks. Enjoy your perspective on thai life....next time try a real visit....you'll see things differently

[joshstiles]

One of the funniest things i ever read on TV : "I found the people here honest and without aggression." I love a good laugh !!!

yeah....i laughed too and threw up from laughing so hard

[joshstiles]

One of the funniest things i ever read on TV : "I found the people here honest and without aggression." I love a good laugh !!!

yeah i laughed too

[Scarpolo]

I will just simply say, "see you later", because judging by your post, you enjoyed yourself and you will miss it after a few months back in the states.Time will tell. Safe travels.

You would be 100% right,

I did enjoy myself, and I learned quite a bit about the people, from the people.

I did meet the girls mother, who is without education, as is the rest of the older generation, none of them went to school and cannot read or write, whereas this girl owns her home (28 years to go on mortgage), but she isnt a renter, owns 3 homes in the nort, one where her mother and brother free load, and two she gets small rental income, but the property value skyrockted, so, she isnt the typical girl from the north, and we live, in a very nice gated community near safari world surrounded by gold courses and upper middle class people, (I started in Huai Kwang where my long time friend who invited me here lives) so I know the difference in the way people are living here, (some, even here, live in huts made of building material scraps outside the farms and ongoing building projects)

I spent time in Chaing Mai, visited Pattaya (had too) although I didnt see all of it,

I met and played with several different musicians and may play tonight at Sport One with the Isn't Band, which is very highly skilled,

And, because Americans with education and resources are not seen in this part of town, I felt very welcome,

Now, that said, if I didnt have a Thai native girlfriend able to speak for me, this would have been entirely a different experience, and the first few weeks that I was here, it was very isolating

[Berkshire]

Good Post!.....sounds like you had a Great time in Thailand.

Not sure what you're really looking for BUT the immigration thing seems to have bothered you most. Why not go for a "retirement visa" where the hassle is minimal. Renewal once a year (less than an hour at immigration) and 90 day reporting (less than 15 minutes)....at least that has been my experience for the last 10 years. If that is TOO MUCH of a hassle for you to deal with to stay here .....then I agree with benabilina....."have a good flight back".

As for the women and having to take care of their family......this is Thailand and it is actually one of the things I like! In America the "old folks " are disposable and put in "homes" once they are no longer useful....SAD!

I have been lucky in my 10 years here as extended family have not asked much, so when I give to them its because I want to! Many are barely in survival mode and the little I give helps out greatly! I am happy to do it.

I am referring to the family and extended family "expecting" that the youngers take care of them,

even if they have to sell their bodies to do it,

and if you agree with that, then, that's your choice,

C'mon, Scarpolo, get real. Nearly all of these girls selling their bodies do so to take care of their own kids. And if they're sending money home to mommie from Pattaya, it's because mommie is looking after their kids for them. If not for the single mother situation, most of these bargirls would be working in factories or 7/11 and yes, they would still help their parents out if they could. I agree with the Beach dude in this regard. This is the reason why there are so few nursing homes in Thailand, because the Thais wouldn't typically send their aged parents away to be cared for by someone else. They would look after them until the end. I've seen this in many, many families.

[Scarpolo]

"due to the nature of her work when we met (she stopped for me)", the same old sad story. You could just keep this sentence and stop there.

They seem to have a different view of their "work"

It has afforded her some semblance of wealth, and she doesn't associate with her co workers, in fact, her entire friends list, and all of her friends, are completely unaware of her job, thinking she has money from real estate income in the north, where they know she owns homes and land,

that she exaggerates the ability of that to sustain her, escapes me, but, we do live in a beautiful home in a gated community and we shop at Fashion Island and the Promenade there. If I didnt know ,I would think I was in Miami

I think classifying all the girls who work as "bar girls" is over simplifying, and creates an air of inaccuracy about the type of person.

I have stated before, when I was younger, I was a taxi driver in NYC and Miami, and the amount of beautiful, married women, who were moonlighting as call girls, shocked me

[Scarpolo]

I will just simply say, "see you later", because judging by your post, you enjoyed yourself and you will miss it after a few months back in the states.Time will tell. Safe travels.

I am sure you are right.

I will miss many things, including my living arrangement,

But I have a renewed appreciation for south florida now,

Time will tell if I can readjust,

one thing for sure, I have a Piaggio 500 at home, which I can ride without fear, to most places,

in Thailand, I do not dare drive, anything, and I was a professional driver for years

[Scarpolo]

on reading your post, my first thought was for the young Thai lady that put in on the line for you .... perhaps you have contributed to the anti-American movement ... came in nice and polite, taken what you wanted/needed and (atypically American) gone home ... don't let the door hit ya ...

Not true,

I have business reasons to go back, and I "have" to go back to clean up a spill I left from the last marriage,

The girl, has benefitted greatly,

before I got her she didnt have a hot water heater for her shower, or a vacumb, which I purchased quickly when I moved in, as well, a large refridgerator to house my large supply of vegetables that I regularly juice,

I also finished her kitchen for her,

try not to look at this as being one way,

I took very good care of her, and she wants me back,

We have both known from the beginning I would have to go back once certain matters came to conclusion and required my presence, and I have real business needs that must be done in person,

The question is, do I return?

She wants me too, and I might,

I just do not know, and the door is left open for me

Trust me, all her friends know she has been happier than they have seen her in several years, so this was a mutually beneficial arrangement, and she was by far, no servant

[dazzler40]

Im also happy you had a good time in Thailand.

Thai people the majority who live outside the tourist destinations are very welcoming.

Even if you carry a pricetag.

I urge others to take your time don't be generous but be fair.

Its the same in most Asian countries

[i claudius]

when you've had over 30yrs experience of Thailand then you can come to some conclusions.

6months doesnt give you time to wet your whistle.

Is 23 years ok ,or do i have to make 30?

[Robininbkk]

I feel sad for the OP. Trapped in the US of A system. Just figured there is a better place out there.

And That's all what the OP wants, that's what we all want, happiness, right?

Good luck to ya anyway and wish you the best.

[Scarpolo]

Your post started off pretty well.

I agree, far too many low income earning women are fleeced by their mothers and extended families under the "I took care of you when you were little" excuse – thus many end up selling their bodies to keep their parents in whisky and card games and elevate face in the village that "she's a good daughter".

But then you got into the relationship stuff and ended with:

"At 54, with a g/f 32, there is no way I will get involved with a girl over 40 again, unless I am 65 perhaps, but now? No way."

Why not? What do you have in common with a 32 year-old Thai woman? Music taste? Literature? Golf? Greek mythology?

Be honest, you enjoyed perving all over a young body for 6 months and she let you because she's seeking a secure future for her kids, family and herself, and as a prostitute will not be able to find a Thai or foreign man around her own age.

Fact is, if you made a prostitute the number one woman in your life in the USA, you'd have no problem securing her "love" either.

We share a value system, and, I am a 54 year old artist, from the financial industry, not a retired garbage truck driver 60 pounds over weight, skimping it out on a meager pension.

At 32, she surprisingly, has an old school style, dresses very conservatively, and has a 1940's style outlook on the world, with a desire for modern life, a first generation mixture of the girl from a family with no education and the first to go to school, and then enter the business world, which failed due to theft from her brothers wife,

it was then that she entered the sex trade, and couldnt believe the amount of money she could make in the soapy massage business, which quickly elevated her to a level unseen by her family and their peers.

I dont agree with it, but cannot argue it,

She also has a dissassociative capacity to be a different person at work, then she is here, and because I met her "there" I know the difference in how she "performs" at work, and who she really is,

a person cannot hide who they really are for very long,

I was enticed by her "work" personality, but it wasn't until I moved in with her, that I learned who she really is.

I had to adjust to that.

She is ok with her job, and has it completely compartmentalized from her private life, and walks proudly.

We have never been discriminated against in her area, and it is only in the tourist areas where falange's stare at her, unwarrantedly long

I have gotten a few dissaproving looks from some short ugly thai women, but by and large, I felt accepted, and always safe

[thailiketoo]

Your post started off pretty well.

I agree, far too many low income earning women are fleeced by their mothers and extended families under the "I took care of you when you were little" excuse – thus many end up selling their bodies to keep their parents in whisky and card games and elevate face in the village that "she's a good daughter".

But then you got into the relationship stuff and ended with:

"At 54, with a g/f 32, there is no way I will get involved with a girl over 40 again, unless I am 65 perhaps, but now? No way."

Why not? What do you have in common with a 32 year-old Thai woman? Music taste? Literature? Golf? Greek mythology?

Be honest, you enjoyed perving all over a young body for 6 months and she let you because she's seeking a secure future for her kids, family and herself, and as a prostitute will not be able to find a Thai or foreign man around her own age.

Fact is, if you made a prostitute the number one woman in your life in the USA, you'd have no problem securing her "love" either.

We share a value system, and, I am a 54 year old artist, from the financial industry, not a retired garbage truck driver 60 pounds over weight, skimping it out on a meager pension.

At 32, she surprisingly, has an old school style, dresses very conservatively, and has a 1940's style outlook on the world, with a desire for modern life, a first generation mixture of the girl from a family with no education and the first to go to school, and then enter the business world, which failed due to theft from her brothers wife,

it was then that she entered the sex trade, and couldnt believe the amount of money she could make in the soapy massage business, which quickly elevated her to a level unseen by her family and their peers.

I dont agree with it, but cannot argue it,

She also has a dissassociative capacity to be a different person at work, then she is here, and because I met her "there" I know the difference in how she "performs" at work, and who she really is,

a person cannot hide who they really are for very long,

I was enticed by her "work" personality, but it wasn't until I moved in with her, that I learned who she really is.

I had to adjust to that.

She is ok with her job, and has it completely compartmentalized from her private life, and walks proudly.

We have never been discriminated against in her area, and it is only in the tourist areas where falange's stare at her, unwarrantedly long

I have gotten a few dissaproving looks from some short ugly thai women, but by and large, I felt accepted, and always safe

You wrote, "We share a value system, and, I am a 54 year old artist, from the financial industry, not a retired garbage truck driver 60 pounds over weight, skimping it out on a meager pension."

You want to know her value system?

The retired garbage truck driver is staying in Thailand and he is the handsome man who will put the rice on her table.

Her value system and the retired garbage truck driver is the same.

[beachproperty]

Good Post!.....sounds like you had a Great time in Thailand.

Not sure what you're really looking for BUT the immigration thing seems to have bothered you most. Why not go for a "retirement visa" where the hassle is minimal. Renewal once a year (less than an hour at immigration) and 90 day reporting (less than 15 minutes)....at least that has been my experience for the last 10 years. If that is TOO MUCH of a hassle for you to deal with to stay here .....then I agree with benabilina....."have a good flight back".

As for the women and having to take care of their family......this is Thailand and it is actually one of the things I like! In America the "old folks " are disposable and put in "homes" once they are no longer useful....SAD!

I have been lucky in my 10 years here as extended family have not asked much, so when I give to them its because I want to! Many are barely in survival mode and the little I give helps out greatly! I am happy to do it.

Not interested in the retirement visa due to IRS reporting requirements and disclosures.

One of the reasons to leave the States is the oncoming Obamacare tax role which applies penalties for filers

"IRS reporting requirements and disclosures" What would they be? Am I missing something.....I still have properties in the States and by also living in Thailand the ONLY form that I know is the one requiring disclosure of your bank accounts abroad (one simple form ....fill in the amount and bank) which I file when I do my Taxes.....

WOW ....another hassle and good reason for you to go home. As many have said ...."have a good flight home"

Edited March 14, 2014 by beachproperty

[ultimate weapon]

54 yeas old and u think a young girl went anywhere near you for any other reason but money? Lol

I don't know why but farang men like to think that way maybe not with farang women but they always do it with say asian girls.

[Mudcrab]

Your post started off pretty well.

I agree, far too many low income earning women are fleeced by their mothers and extended families under the "I took care of you when you were little" excuse – thus many end up selling their bodies to keep their parents in whisky and card games and elevate face in the village that "she's a good daughter".

But then you got into the relationship stuff and ended with:

"At 54, with a g/f 32, there is no way I will get involved with a girl over 40 again, unless I am 65 perhaps, but now? No way."

Why not? What do you have in common with a 32 year-old Thai woman? Music taste? Literature? Golf? Greek mythology?

Be honest, you enjoyed perving all over a young body for 6 months and she let you because she's seeking a secure future for her kids, family and herself, and as a prostitute will not be able to find a Thai or foreign man around her own age.

Fact is, if you made a prostitute the number one woman in your life in the USA, you'd have no problem securing her "love" either.

And what is wrong with that? You married a virgin?

[Scarpolo]

go back to her 'job'..hehehehehehehehe she left the job for u??..what 'job is that???

He was honest from the beginning she was a sex worker, but "high end soapie" not a bar girl.

Add to that:

Her home is finely furnished, her car is 2 years old, bought new and paid for in cash.

It is hard to argue that she has made the best of a bad situation.

Her book shelf consists of books written by Alan Greenspan (a cousin of my grandmother) and others who authors are in Thai also geared towards finance and economics, which is my field as well,

She was also an entrepreneur whose clothing store failed to theft from the brothers first wife.

So, she gave it an effort, and it didnt work out. I suspect she will eventually be in the clothing business again, but will require a sponsor, to get her to overcome her fesr of failure, and to be willing to take the risks for the first 3-5 months, that every business needs to get going.

If I return, that will be the plan, as, I have no intentions of being the boyfriend, of lover of an active sex worker, "active" being the key.

My second wife was from high soceity brazilian jewish community, with plenty of wealth and live in servants, and she turned into a sex slave for every one of her boyfriends, and husbands, (including me), but she didnt seem to mind, and didnt have to do much work, as, many of the very pretty and well built north and south american girls are prone too,

at least this girl gets paid up front for her service,

my last wife wound up with very little at the end of her first two marriages where, according to her, she was abused.....

I think that if any man tried something with her at work, that she objected too, and it persisted, they would dump him in the trash bin behind the building.....this girl is nobody's slave and doesnt take shit from anyone, starting with me,

it has been a highly respectful relationship, and we have both grown from it, which defines it for me

she also now speaks more english than any of her friends, and, good enough to assist anyone with simple translation, and I have told her, that one full year with me, and she would speak it much better than she ever believed.

It helps that we watch movies with thai subtitles in english speaking,

and when she hears words and phrases that I use regularly, spoken in the movie and sees it in use in the movie, it becomes enforced.

The word "exactly" is used by me more than I realized, and she didnt understand it, until she started hearing it a lot in movies,

It is these simple methods that have increased her language skills dramatically, which let's face it, helps the thai's dramatically

[ultimate weapon]

Your post started off pretty well.

I agree, far too many low income earning women are fleeced by their mothers and extended families under the "I took care of you when you were little" excuse thus many end up selling their bodies to keep their parents in whisky and card games and elevate face in the village that "she's a good daughter".

But then you got into the relationship stuff and ended with:

"At 54, with a g/f 32, there is no way I will get involved with a girl over 40 again, unless I am 65 perhaps, but now? No way."

Why not? What do you have in common with a 32 year-old Thai woman? Music taste? Literature? Golf? Greek mythology?

Be honest, you enjoyed perving all over a young body for 6 months and she let you because she's seeking a secure future for her kids, family and herself, and as a prostitute will not be able to find a Thai or foreign man around her own age.

Fact is, if you made a prostitute the number one woman in your life in the USA, you'd have no problem securing her "love" either.

We share a value system, and, I am a 54 year old artist, from the financial industry, not a retired garbage truck driver 60 pounds over weight, skimping it out on a meager pension.

At 32, she surprisingly, has an old school style, dresses very conservatively, and has a 1940's style outlook on the world, with a desire for modern life, a first generation mixture of the girl from a family with no education and the first to go to school, and then enter the business world, which failed due to theft from her brothers wife,

it was then that she entered the sex trade, and couldnt believe the amount of money she could make in the soapy massage business, which quickly elevated her to a level unseen by her family and their peers.

I dont agree with it, but cannot argue it,

She also has a dissassociative capacity to be a different person at work, then she is here, and because I met her "there" I know the difference in how she "performs" at work, and who she really is,

a person cannot hide who they really are for very long,

I was enticed by her "work" personality, but it wasn't until I moved in with her, that I learned who she really is.

Does all of that apply to the prostitutes in the US? They have a life story too.

[Mudcrab]

When you have been here for longer than 6-months then you will actually be able to comment on Thailand and the people and culture with far more authority. But until then ... listen... though some of the things you said only scratched the surface ... have a good trip home.

At what point can someone claim legitimacy to be able to comment on Thailand and the culture?

The person who immersed themselves for 2 years in the village life and took the trouble and time to learn the language and the nuances of day to day life?

Or the 20 year veteran who lives in a farang ghetto, plays golf with farang friends, drinks in a farang bar or pub and has no Thai friends female or male?

[Mudcrab]

A good post. More thoughtful and honest than 90% of the embittered grumpy old gits who post here.

I object to the term 'old'

If the shoe slipper fits

[Scarpolo]

Some posters should not be so hard on the OP............most of us were still enchanted after only the first 6 months.

What I would like to hear from OP is: how did your, now ex, girlfriend take it when you broke it to her that

she was alright to be your number one and only one, for 6 months, but that you are moving on now?

I am still here, not leaving until Tuesday.

She has known from the beginning that I have pending matters in the US which absolutely require my presence to resolve and that several million Baht are at stake, to lose, if I don't get myself there quickly,

What we didnt know was the date.

She intends to wait for me.

I have asked her to accompany me, but she wants time to consider her future, and doesnt think she can easily get a visa.

She has also already told me, she wants a baby, and with two at 26 and 23, that prospect for me is "difficult" tp absorb, and I have already made the grave mistake of making a lover, a mother. She doesnt understand the full impact, and sees her friends struggling with young children and husbands that are less than stellar,

I am not "moving on" and, if my post wasn't clear, I am not sure if and when I would return, as, I have to see what the States feel like to me now, and, I have business interests there, that may not make it easy for a quick return.

At first, I thought I would take care of business and then come right back,

now I am not as sure, and have been honest with her about that,

because this is transparent and open and honest, we intend to continue to appreciate the time together, and to quote Kris Kristoffferson,

we are focussed on "the good times"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytdE30eTUVk

[Mudcrab]

What do you have in common with a 32 year-old Thai woman? Music taste? Literature? Golf? Greek mythology?

That pretty much goes for a Thai woman of any age. Might as well go for a young, pretty one.

True statement. That's why I question the logic of many young farangs in Thailand, thinking that they somehow have more in common with a Thai woman of the same age. They don't. Language (big one), cultural beliefs, values, etc., are vastly different, regardless of the age. Now if the farang dude can speak Thai fluently, a whole new ballgame.

I agree that speaking Thai fluently is a big advantage, But I've been here several decades and only know few a Westerners who do. Otherwise, how many Thai women of any age have any real insights into foreign music, literature or Greek mythology? Very, very few.

how many Western women of any age have any real insights into foreign music, literature or Greek mythology? Very, very few.

[Scarpolo]

I'm on the OP's side mostly. Say 90%. I think he shows remarkable insight for being here a relatively short time. Of course, the dinosaurs ("I've been here eleventy-hundred years and I know EVERYgoddamnTHING!") may quibble, but based on my experience out here in provinces, he's pretty much spot on.

A couple of observations were fair...BUT...

You are a million miles away from understanding anything about Thai women if you base your conclusions on one prostitute you dated from a soapy massage parlour.

Let's disregard the millions of other women who get up and go to work in numerous other industries and hail from all different walks of life, shall we?

Take a step back for a moment and consider how ridiculous that is.

On its face, you are right, that seems limited.

I should add, I came here to visit a friend, who is married to a tahi for 15 years, and she speaks perfect english,

and there was a lineup of her friends, "coming over" every time I was there, and I was shown my standing in thai soceity, from the start,

I also had the "pleasure" of being in Chaing Mai with my friend at first, and then I stayed another two weeks alone, as I hooked up with the music scene there,

I also returned to Chaing Mai with her, and had a "different" experience.

I dont have the same interests as others, and my lifestyle, is different,

And I also believe that our relationships are "mirrors" of who WE are,. as well as theother person. so,

if the shoe fits.......I am fine to walk in mine....I know who I am,

normal? girls, wouldnt want much to do with me, very long.

I should point out that at the end of both my marriages, both wives stated to me, that all they were to me in the end, were my whores.

what else is there left to say

[beachproperty]

I should point out that at the end of both my marriages, both wives stated to me, that all they were to me in the end, were my whores.

what else is there left to say

I Believe that says it all....Your ex wives saying that to you, says MORE about you than them......Think about it!

[Scarpolo]

What do you have in common with a 32 year-old Thai woman? Music taste? Literature? Golf? Greek mythology?

That pretty much goes for a Thai woman of any age. Might as well go for a young, pretty one.

Again, another ridiculous generalisation. I have a lot in common with my wife, why else would I marry her? Being of similar age we like similar music, not all, but a fair bit, she enjoys reading, as do I, she also hits a pretty mean ball at the golf range.

When you say "Thai woman of any age". Are you talking about the upcountry women who didn't finish school?

This is why foreigners look so stupid to Thais. Because they come over, befriend, hang out with and marry the most undesirable, uneducated women. It's harsh to say it, but these are the women no decent Thai men want to be with and no decent Thai woman with half a brain wants to be around.

No matter how pretty the face, if a man has any sort of brain rolling around in his head, surely he would want to be able to relate, converse and enjoy mutual interests with his GF/wife. I guess its no wonder there are so many guys sitting around on bar stools moaning about Thai women and being bitter. What did you expect choosing a partner on such a shallow basis. This is a huge recipe for unhappiness.

Things "in common" mean many and different things....

To some, being in a honest relationship which is supportive to the others interests are as equally important, as coming into the relationship with common interests,

my last wife was a singer and guitarist and I am a guitarist, and although you would think that was a great mix, it turns out, we couldnt stand to play with each other, and therefore, we didnt

I also am an artist as is she, and, she disdained my desire to be an artist, thinking I was somehow "using her" to learn. or copying her,

not considering that I was an artist before I met her, and a guitarist before I met her, and my mother is an artist,

things in common are over rated,

opposites attract and require eachother to fulful the human element of yin yang, male femle, harmonic balance, and love, which can be called many different things,

We are both adults, and she has experience with men that affords her the luxury of knowing bullshit when she sees and hears it.

I find her, refreshing

[Scarpolo]

Nice post but Don't fool yourself. She's probably thinking that you were a waste of 6 months of her time.

The woman you described was looking for a husband.

She benefitted greatly being with me, and describes me as a very good man, taking very good care of her,

I don't dispute your analysis that she was looking for something more permanent from me,

but I also dispute it was a waste of her time,

on the contrary

it was time very well invested, by both of us,

and the future is uncertain

[thailampang2012]

At 54, in America, if you are not rich, not will be easy for you to find a match under 40, with one exception. Hispanic women. If they live in America already may be spoiled with the culture, but...if you meet them in their countries, specially in Mexico and Brazil, probably don't.

If you like Thailand, and looks like you do, and you can qualify for a retirement visa extension, come back. I will write to you about.

Good luck.