Lack of initiative far too prevalent in Thailand.

[Seastallion]

"10 days after the aircraft disappeared, Thailand's military said yesterday that its radar detected a plane that may have been the Malaysia Airlines jet, minutes after its communications went down, but did not share the data earlier because officials "did not pay any attention to it" and were not specifically asked for it."

"At 1.28am, Thai military radar "was able to detect a signal, which was not a normal signal, of a plane flying in the direction opposite from the MH370 plane," back toward Kuala Lumpur, Montol said. The plane later turned right, towards the Malacca strait.

When asked why it took so long to release the information, Montol said "...we did not pay any attention to it. The Royal Thai Air Force only looks after any threats against our country," adding that Malaysia's initial request for information in the early days of the search was not specific."

(NZ Herald, today)

So, they let a hundred or so planes and boats search in the wrong places because nobody asked specifically, "Did you see an aircraft alter course around this area at this particular time?" Considering the Thai navy was involved.... I'm speechless.

[roamer]

"At 1.28am, Thai military radar "was able to detect a signal, which was not a normal signal, of a plane flying in the direction opposite from the MH370 plane,"

" So, they let a hundred or so planes and boats search in the wrong places because nobody asked specifically, "Did you see an aircraft alter course around this area at this particular time?"

Not the same thing at all.

[Seastallion]

"At 1.28am, Thai military radar "was able to detect a signal, which was not a normal signal, of a plane flying in the direction opposite from the MH370 plane,"

" So, they let a hundred or so planes and boats search in the wrong places because nobody asked specifically, "Did you see an aircraft alter course around this area at this particular time?"

Not the same thing at all.

Not a normal signal because all transponders were off, but they knew it was a plane and tracked it turning from it's path from KL and flying to Penang Island then turned again towards Malacca Straight.

[ABCer]

Not surprised at all.

Thai students are strongly discouraged from asking questions both at school and at the Uni levels.

I do not expect the brass (Military) are encouraged to question their Command in any form at any time.

All of the above helps to Save the Faces but naturally impedes initiative and analytical capabilities.

Congrats to Thai Military capabilities. Their hardware is working. It is detecting everything. Do not ask for more...

[benalibina]

Not surprised at all.

Thai students are strongly discouraged from asking questions both at school and at the Uni levels.

I do not expect the brass (Military) are encouraged to question their Command in any form at any time.

All of the above helps to Save the Faces but naturally impedes initiative and analytical capabilities.

Congrats to Thai Military capabilities. Their hardware is working. It is detecting everything. Do not ask for more...

Cynical are we ?

[Berkshire]

"At 1.28am, Thai military radar "was able to detect a signal, which was not a normal signal, of a plane flying in the direction opposite from the MH370 plane,"

" So, they let a hundred or so planes and boats search in the wrong places because nobody asked specifically, "Did you see an aircraft alter course around this area at this particular time?"

Not the same thing at all.

Not a normal signal because all transponders were off, but they knew it was a plane and tracked it turning from it's path from KL and flying to Penang Island then turned again towards Malacca Straight.

Geez, slow day in the Thai-bashing tribe? So you gotta find something to support your tired rhetoric? If you've been following the news, you'll know that they've got a gazillion leads but nothing concrete. You'd prefer that the Thai gov muddy the waters even more? How about go back to the barstool and let the professionals do their jobs.

[mmh8]

its a lot more complicated when it comes to air space

[robblok]

"At 1.28am, Thai military radar "was able to detect a signal, which was not a normal signal, of a plane flying in the direction opposite from the MH370 plane,"

" So, they let a hundred or so planes and boats search in the wrong places because nobody asked specifically, "Did you see an aircraft alter course around this area at this particular time?"

Not the same thing at all.

Not a normal signal because all transponders were off, but they knew it was a plane and tracked it turning from it's path from KL and flying to Penang Island then turned again towards Malacca Straight.

Geez, slow day in the Thai-bashing tribe? So you gotta find something to support your tired rhetoric? If you've been following the news, you'll know that they've got a gazillion leads but nothing concrete. You'd prefer that the Thai gov muddy the waters even more? How about go back to the barstool and let the professionals do their jobs.

It seems that most of the guys posting here who's only accomplishment was getting old and getting a pension to stay in Thailand with probably almost no real formal education themselves love to critisise the Thais.

Sure there are a lot of dumb uneducated Thais but to think that Thailand has no experts and professionals gets a bit old. There are guys and girls that are super bright just like everywhere else. You just don't encounter them much but they are here.

Its quite arrogant to think that you or others are always better but seems to be the norm for foreigners that are not too happy with their own life and need to put Thais down and act like they are so much better, just to stay happy.

Many of the foreigners in Thailand don't impress me at all usually damaged goods or oddballs.

[samran]

Watching this whole story unfold it is pretty clear that the only idiots are the ones who think something needs to be said when there is really nothing to say.

Watching cnn this morning and I think it is better that they all wear tinfoil hats with the number of conspiracy theories they are throwing out there evey hour.

Throwing the Thai military into the mix is yet another conspiracy theory is just simply another one for the tin foil hat brigade

[Seastallion]

"At 1.28am, Thai military radar "was able to detect a signal, which was not a normal signal, of a plane flying in the direction opposite from the MH370 plane,"

" So, they let a hundred or so planes and boats search in the wrong places because nobody asked specifically, "Did you see an aircraft alter course around this area at this particular time?"

Not the same thing at all.

Not a normal signal because all transponders were off, but they knew it was a plane and tracked it turning from it's path from KL and flying to Penang Island then turned again towards Malacca Straight.

Geez, slow day in the Thai-bashing tribe? So you gotta find something to support your tired rhetoric? If you've been following the news, you'll know that they've got a gazillion leads but nothing concrete. You'd prefer that the Thai gov muddy the waters even more? How about go back to the barstool and let the professionals do their jobs.

Actually, I'm quite pro-Thai and do not sit on a bar stool all day, however the Malaysian Air incident is a subject on may people's minds and when an idiot, of any country, shows such a lack of initiative when hundreds of lives are at stake, not to mention hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on wild goose chase searches, I will call a spade a spade.

[ABCer]

Not surprised at all.

Thai students are strongly discouraged from asking questions both at school and at the Uni levels.

I do not expect the brass (Military) are encouraged to question their Command in any form at any time.

All of the above helps to Save the Faces but naturally impedes initiative and analytical capabilities.

Congrats to Thai Military capabilities. Their hardware is working. It is detecting everything. Do not ask for more...

Cynical are we ?

What's wrong with being cynical? Cynicism = Optimism + Experience.

Actually I wasn't cynical. I have been realistic. Do not ask of people more than they can give and avoid disappointment.

Which part of my post you are not ready to sign under?

[thailiketoo]

Not surprised at all.

Thai students are strongly discouraged from asking questions both at school and at the Uni levels.

I do not expect the brass (Military) are encouraged to question their Command in any form at any time.

All of the above helps to Save the Faces but naturally impedes initiative and analytical capabilities.

Congrats to Thai Military capabilities. Their hardware is working. It is detecting everything. Do not ask for more...

No military encourages questions.

Theirs not to make reply,

Theirs not to reason why,

Theirs but to do and die:

Speaking of the Crimea.

[namdocmai]

Some years ago there were many vacancy's for air-tower controllers. If i remember well they needed farang for those functions (Don't ask me why).

So probably the airspace around Thailand is observed by farang now.

[duanebigsby]

"[/size]At 1.28am, Thai military radar "was able to detect a signal, which was not a normal signal, of a plane flying in the direction opposite from the MH370 plane," [/size]

" [/size]So, they let a hundred or so planes and boats search in the wrong places because nobody asked specifically, "Did you see an aircraft alter course around this area at this particular time?"[/size]

Not the same thing at all.[/size]

Not a normal signal because all transponders were off, but they knew it was a plane and tracked it turning from it's path from KL and flying to Penang Island then turned again towards Malacca Straight.

Geez, slow day in the Thai-bashing tribe? So you gotta find something to support your tired rhetoric? If you've been following the news, you'll know that they've got a gazillion leads but nothing concrete. You'd prefer that the Thai gov muddy the waters even more? How about go back to the barstool and let the professionals do their jobs.

It seems that most of the guys posting here who's only accomplishment was getting old and getting a pension to stay in Thailand with probably almost no real formal education themselves love to critisise the Thais.

Sure there are a lot of dumb uneducated Thais but to think that Thailand has no experts and professionals gets a bit old. There are guys and girls that are super bright just like everywhere else. You just don't encounter them much but they are here.

Its quite arrogant to think that you or others are always better but seems to be the norm for foreigners that are not too happy with their own life and need to put Thais down and act like they are so much better, just to stay happy.

Many of the foreigners in Thailand don't impress me at all usually damaged goods or oddballs.

I agree completely. So many say Thais are xenophobic and don't want to know about the world.

My students want to know everything I can tell them about the World. I pull a map out and we start talking about tons of stuff.

Where are all the ignorant Thais? Not in my class, they all seem to be curious.

[ABCer]

Some years ago there were many vacancy's for air-tower controllers. If i remember well they needed farang for those functions (Don't ask me why).

So probably the airspace around Thailand is observed by farang now.

First I thought the same.

Than I thought it is observed but not evaluated.

Now I think the Big Brother isn't really Big, he doesn't see much and what he sees is not registered.

Really, people are made to believe that sat photo cameras know where they are, mikes can tune in on private mouth to ear conversation and computers register every bank transaction they make.

But Boeing 777 full of people and fuel can 'disappear' into thin air because

- some pilot disconnected flight electronic device(s)

- the jumbo jet altered its course

- the jumbo jet flew over the military airbase

- the jumbo jet was registered by various military radars without being identified

- all of the above has happened 260 hours ago

- AND EVERYBODY IS A VIRGIN WITH A CLEAR FACE!

Those who believe it possible say 'ay'...

Want to know the truth? Don't look up. Don't look at sea. Don't look in remote lands.

Look at Malaysians in command in high places very closely. They are all in on the cover up.

[Johnnie99]

Lack of initiative far too prevalent in Thailand.

Quite so.

[David Barker]

Just another theory but as yet I have not heard anyone mention the question what was in the hold ? Possibly one hell of a robbery.

[HeijoshinCool]

I worked air traffic control in the air force for six years. I also worked three years for the FAA at Seattle ARTCC.

I certainly would have said something, as would any of my fellow controllers. That was our job.

[thailiketoo]

Lack of initiative far too prevalent in Thailand.

Quite so.

[chrisinth]

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Not surprised at all.

Thai students are strongly discouraged from asking questions both at school and at the Uni levels.

I do not expect the brass (Military) are encouraged to question their Command in any form at any time.

All of the above helps to Save the Faces but naturally impedes initiative and analytical capabilities.

Congrats to Thai Military capabilities. Their hardware is working. It is detecting everything. Do not ask for more...

No military encourages questions.

Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:

Speaking of the Crimea. alt=biggrin.png width=20 height=20>

Doubt their radar would've picked up the 777 either......................

[wym]

Not saying anything specifically Thai here, but it seems obvious the signals were ignored because this particular anomaly did not represent any threat to Thai security.

"Not our mission" to be helpful to our neighbors or the world at large.

Most likely they had no idea of the incident at the time - for the same reason.

And by the time they did hear about it, most likely watching the news after clocking off, probably didn't even connect the dots that they might have something to contribute.

I'm not saying they are idiots because they are Thai.

I do think they were being idiotic.

[chrisinth]

I seem to remember that a Malaysian officer right at the beginning made a report that the 777 was picked up on radar over the Malacca straits and was ridiculed for bringing this to attention, that it was deemed as false information. Appears he may have been right.

As for the withheld information, you have to remember that this is military and not civilian sources. I am sure it would have been reported/logged when it was spotted, then lost or retained in the system, perhaps classified as national security? Again, I am not sure if they have the ability to retain video records of the air picture, and checked these later?

[samran]

I seem to remember that a Malaysian officer right at the beginning made a report that the 777 was picked up on radar over the Malacca straits and was ridiculed for bringing this to attention, that it was deemed as false information. Appears he may have been right.

As for the withheld information, you have to remember that this is military and not civilian sources. I am sure it would have been reported/logged when it was spotted, then lost or retained in the system, perhaps classified as national security? Again, I am not sure if they have the ability to retain video records of the air picture, and checked these later?

Indeed, joint US/Australia bases may/may not have data as well. Whatever the case, they weren't telling.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-plea-to-us-to-release-pine-gap-data-20140319-hvkf2.html

[FiftyTwo]

This is clearly a case of alien abduction.

The US satellite system had pictures of the plane being dragged into the alien Mothership, but are keeping the whole thing top secret in the interests of national security.

That's my theory anyway.

Alien conspiracy is always the best.

Edited March 19, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[Seastallion]

Not saying anything specifically Thai here, but it seems obvious the signals were ignored because this particular anomaly did not represent any threat to Thai security.

"Not our mission" to be helpful to our neighbors or the world at large.

Most likely they had no idea of the incident at the time - for the same reason.

And by the time they did hear about it, most likely watching the news after clocking off, probably didn't even connect the dots that they might have something to contribute.

I'm not saying they are idiots because they are Thai.

I do think they were being idiotic.

They recognised that it was not "a normal signal". A low level report should have been made. That low level report should have made it's way up at least to an officer. Any officer, in any branch of any country's military, should be aware of major world events....should be intelligent and educated enough to make it his/her business to be aware of what's happening in the world, but especially in his/her part of the world.

The Thai Navy had been deployed.

The Government was aware.

Someone near the top, if not at THE top, especially in light of the first report re Malacca Staight radar sightings, should have sent word down to be alert.

[humqdpf]

My take on this is quite different. I think that the truth of the matter is that what the radar picked up was not actually seen by anyone but instead was recorded (it was the middle of the night). It was not in Thai airspace and therefore did not trip any automatic alarms.

It was only when someone had to review the tapes that they found it and then had to pretend that they had seen it - face-saving, the usual motivation!

[EASYDOGG]

Some years ago there were many vacancy's for air-tower controllers. If i remember well they needed farang for those functions (Don't ask me why).

So probably the airspace around Thailand is observed by farang now.

But we are talking of observations on Thai Military Radar now, surely. And to be in the Thai army I am guessing the requirement is to be a Thai national. But all things considered, did Malaysia not ask for this information before? Did Thailand not think to offer it? It seems it's all a bit Mickey Mouse to me.

Edited March 19, 2014 by EASYDOGG

[Claude Balls]

Lack of initiative far too prevalent in Thailand.

Quite so.

and the same could probably be said about intelligence too?

[Nautilus05]

Well OP, then you better head straight over to the air force base, and show these guys how to properly track a civilian plane that turned its transponder off. Oh, and teach them how to conduct a search and rescue operation while you're there, because you obviously know their jobs better than they do.

[JimGant]

My take on this is quite different. I think that the truth of the matter is that what the radar picked up was not actually seen by anyone but instead was recorded (it was the middle of the night). It was not in Thai airspace and therefore did not trip any automatic alarms. It was only when someone had to review the tapes that they found it and then had to pretend that they had seen it - face-saving, the usual motivation!

Exactly. As the AVCM said, the track was of no concern to Thai air defense, since it was not on a heading to penetrate the Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ). And, since it had: 1. not originated in Thailand air space, it did not carry a Thai track number (to remain until it exited radar coverage); 2. was probably a very intermittent track, since it was only being painted by primary radar (i.e., secondary radar, the transponder, had been "strangled"); and 3. it could have been confused with clutter return, as, again, as it wasn't on an inbound heading for Thai airspace, there wasn't any reason to be overly concerned about a possible track vs clutter.

But, yeah, when the news hit, sure the tapes were pulled, and the radar data scrutinized. The AVCM said as much, saying it took experts to discern the track, once it was determined that something unusual had occurred.

I worked with RTAF Air Defense folks for a couple of years during Vietnam, and they were not slouches. And later I was involved in military sales for the upgrade and automation of their air defense system.

Also, I was Air Staff (XOO) when KAL 007 screwed up its INS inputs, managing to penetrate Soviet air space. I was then involved in the automation of the Alaska radar system, so I got hit with the repetitive question of, "Why didn't the Air Force advise 007 that he was off course?" Well, besides not recognizably deviating from course (not that we had his projected course plotted) until almost out of radar coverage, we had to point out that we were in the air defense business of projected penetrating tracks, and not the flight follow business of flights exiting the ADIZ (sure, if requested, we are -- but not as a matter of course-- and not much changed post KAL 007).

Anyway, the RTAF are professionals -- and their T-28 "interceptor" fleet even got a kill during Vietnam (well, the "unknown" when sandwiched by two T-28's, over controlled and stalled into the ground. But, a kill's a kill.)

So, cut them so slack, ok?