Are thai people the most illogical people you have ever met?

[Scarpolo]

This morning my wife passed up a job for the day because she couldn't find her way around town (CM)(4hrs, 1000bht plus expenses).

This afternoon I bought her a new m/c and phoned her up from the showroom to collect it, she found the Honda shop without a problem!

This evening she wanted 400bht to go shopping at the Friday market, I said no, and she went on a rant about me never giving her anything.

Oh well.

I can tell you that EVERY time we saw a Scooter sales booth set up at Fashion Island, she stopped and lit up like the lights of a baseball field, to see if I would buy her one.

I didn't

[thailiketoo]

It is more about the education system than anything else. It was the same in most western countries too when only the wealthy had any real education and everyone else was taught to learn by rote and never ask why. Educated Thais here are just as astute as their equally educated western contemporaries. When trained from birth to follow the rules given, never deviate, never think out of the box and never ask questions, it is not hard to see the problems going forward. Someone has already referred to the "American rednecks" , and it is likewise. Someone also said the same was once said about the Chinese - that was when the only Chinese we heard of were poorer classes working in restaurants or low paid manual labour - now we see the educated bankers etc, we can think differently!

We used to say it of the poor in the west, of the blacks, of the Irish, etc - because the only interaction was with uneducated ones (not though their own volition, but because they were either disallowed education or simply could not afford it). This is why it is not racism, and should be stated - no one here (I believe) actually believes there is a biological reason for it (or for the very low national IQ results), but a failed education system - hiding it does not make for impetus to change. The world laughed at Japanese products in the 50-70s, by the 90s all the best stuff comes from Japan (from suits to TVs, cars to robots).

I would say the root of the problem is the hierarchic culture. The education, proper lack of, is the result.

Well lets see. Is Thailand in Africa? Or Europe? So in comparison to whom? Laos, Burma, Cambodia and Vietnam? I would say those countries should switch their education system to the Thai one because Thailand is doing quite a bit better.

I will admit Thailand is not US or UK or Australia. Thailand is also not anywhere near the US,UK or Australia.

Fair dinkum after all. Apples to apples. Compare Thailand to her neighbors and tell me who has the problem?

Easy answer - they all do. The possible difference is that Thailand has generally had better economy to afford to do something about it - yet has not. Even when they have decided to spend money on education they come up with silly schemes that help no one, wastes money and makes companies big buck instead. Language skills are a disgrace for a country so reliant on exports and such a rich tourist industry - class sizes are positively Victorian. They don't need cheap knock-off tablets in one year, they need decent books, decent teachers and a conducive environment for learning.

It is not a fair argument to compare them to the UK, Europe or States sure - and it was only you that did - but it is not an excuse to hide behind either - this is not a poor country, it is no worse off than Japan was in the 50's and 60's - or India up until the 90's - or Brazil up until the 00's - and so on. A country that cares nothing for the education of its young deserves scorn - it's not bashing, it is facing the fact and owning up to priorities.

Thailand bought airplanes and many other technologies from Japan in the 1940's, 50's and 60's. You were the one writing about the Chinese, US and Irish above not I.

If you quickly increase Thailand's education among the poorer classes what follows might be similar to what happened in Laos and Cambodia. Pol Pot's regime targeted intellectuals - including anyone with an education, or with foreign contacts - as well as anyone from the middle or upper classes. All of the doctors, the teachers, the Buddhist monks and nuns, and the engineers died.

Before you reshape the culture of a country one should look at what happened when other cultures in the region were radically changed.

[Scarpolo]

It is more about the education system than anything else. It was the same in most western countries too when only the wealthy had any real education and everyone else was taught to learn by rote and never ask why. Educated Thais here are just as astute as their equally educated western contemporaries. When trained from birth to follow the rules given, never deviate, never think out of the box and never ask questions, it is not hard to see the problems going forward. Someone has already referred to the "American rednecks" , and it is likewise. Someone also said the same was once said about the Chinese - that was when the only Chinese we heard of were poorer classes working in restaurants or low paid manual labour - now we see the educated bankers etc, we can think differently!

We used to say it of the poor in the west, of the blacks, of the Irish, etc - because the only interaction was with uneducated ones (not though their own volition, but because they were either disallowed education or simply could not afford it). This is why it is not racism, and should be stated - no one here (I believe) actually believes there is a biological reason for it (or for the very low national IQ results), but a failed education system - hiding it does not make for impetus to change. The world laughed at Japanese products in the 50-70s, by the 90s all the best stuff comes from Japan (from suits to TVs, cars to robots).

There's a man talking sense! I agree. We are mostly born equal.

Ah yes, the education. Can't get enough of the education. It's all about the education. Wait a minute, aren't you the guy who got fleeced by the Thai ex-wife? She managed to take you for all your assets? A well-traveled, well educated (according to you) man-of-the-world, taken to the cleaners by a peasant farm girl. So now you're here to get back at the Thais....or at least in your mind. An axe to grind. The classic profile of the Thai-bashing farang. Wise up little man, it's time to move on.

Are you talking about me or Slipperx??? As I am the one that mentioned education, I take it you were referring to me - so I'll answer you, for what it is worth: Nope - never been skinned by a Thai women - been married to one for 17 years, she is the bread winner and I home school our teenage kids - see I put my money where my mouth is! I have taught here and at home - here I have taught mostly at college level - I have seen bright kids trying to get a decent education, when they are rammed into classes of 65 where half the class turns up 45 minutes into the lesson because their previous lesson is in another block and always over runs. I personally have post grad qualifications and teaching qualifications, so I do know a little of what I am talking about.

Yes, I do have a axe to grind - not the kind you allude to, but the kind where a fairly wealthy country wastes masses of money on unworkable policies that benefit very few, ignoring warnings from their own experts (academia), and pretend it will make a difference. When if they listened to their own people, they could instead spend that money on premises, books, a decent curriculum and teachers. If you call that Thai bashing, then sorry, you will do better addressing someone else as you clearly do not understand the difference between concern and attack!

It is clearly, fend for yourself in Thailand.

The focus is on foreign direct investment. There is no plan for improving the populace

[wym]

If you quickly increase Thailand's education among the poorer classes what follows might be similar to what happened in Laos and Cambodia. Pol Pot's regime targeted intellectuals - including anyone with an education, or with foreign contacts - as well as anyone from the middle or upper classes. All of the doctors, the teachers, the Buddhist monks and nuns, and the engineers died.

Before you reshape the culture of a country one should look at what happened when other cultures in the region were radically changed.

Now who's Thai bashing?

Giving those ignorant peasants a decent education may lead to MASS GENOCIDE??

Now I've heard it all. . .

That was actually a direct result of the US' "secret" bombing campaign during Vietnam.

The data released by Clinton shows the total payload dropped during these years to be nearly five times greater than the generally accepted figure. To put the revised total of 2,756,941 tons into perspective, the Allies dropped just over 2 million tons of bombs during all of World War II, including the bombs that struck Hiroshima and Nagasaki: 15,000 and 20,000 tons, respectively. Cambodia may well be the most heavily bombed country in history.

A single B-52d “Big Belly” payload consists of up to 108 225-kilogram or 42 340-kilogram bombs, which are dropped on a target area of approximately 500 by 1,500 metres. In many cases, Cambodian villages were hit with dozens of payloads over the course of several hours. The result was near-total destruction. One US official stated at the time, “We had been told, as had everybody . . . that those carpetbombing attacks by B-52s were totally devastating, that nothing could survive.” Previously, it was estimated that between 50,000 and 150,000 Cambodian civilians were killed by the bombing. Given the fivefold increase in tonnage revealed by the database, the number of casualties is surely higher.

The Cambodian bombing campaign had two unintended side effects that ultimately combined to produce the very domino effect that the Vietnam War was supposed to prevent. First, the bombing forced the Vietnamese Communists deeper and deeper into Cambodia, bringing them into greater contact with Khmer Rouge insurgents. Second, the bombs drove ordinary Cambodians into the arms of the Khmer Rouge, a group that seemed initially to have slim prospects of revolutionary success.

http://www.yale.edu/cgp/Walrus_CambodiaBombing_OCT06.pdf

Edited March 21, 2014 by wym

[beachproperty]

This morning my wife passed up a job for the day because she couldn't find her way around town (CM)(4hrs, 1000bht plus expenses).

This afternoon I bought her a new m/c and phoned her up from the showroom to collect it, she found the Honda shop without a problem!

This evening she wanted 400bht to go shopping at the Friday market, I said no, and she went on a rant about me never giving her anything.

Oh well.

I can tell you that EVERY time we saw a Scooter sales booth set up at Fashion Island, she stopped and lit up like the lights of a baseball field, to see if I would buy her one.

I didn't

Hmmmm ....interesting...

Why would she want a scooter when she is such a wealthy prostitute! Just remembering your prior posts wherein you indicate that she has rental properties in CM, a paid off 2 yr old car. .....ETC.... if she was sooooooo rich and wanted one why didn't she just buy one!

I guess THAT'S her being illogical.....

Edited March 21, 2014 by beachproperty

[Scarpolo]

What girl doesn't want "NEW?"

She owns a scooter now, and a paid for car.

In Thailand, that and some home ownership makes you upper middle class.

Her neighbors have mostly Thai cars although I did see a few mercedes in the community.

I wouldn't go on a scooter here unless it was one of these, and it wasn't on a Bangkok vicinity road:

holed up in the north since Sept. waiting my return

Edited March 21, 2014 by Scarpolo

[MJP]

What girl doesn't want "NEW?"

She owns a scooter now, and a paid for car.

In Thailand, that and some home ownership makes you upper middle class.

Her neighbors have mostly Thai cars although I did see a few mercedes in the community.

Brother, in the UK these days that makes you upper middle class.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[beachproperty]

Her neighbors have mostly Thai cars

AND what brand would that be?

[Scarpolo]

Her neighbors have mostly Thai cars

AND what brand would that be?

It seems Nissan, Honda and Toyota dominate the area, and several Ford trucks, although the people getting out of them wear dress clothes, so perhaps it is status

[thailiketoo]

Now who's Thai bashing?

Giving those ignorant peasants a decent education may lead to GENOCIDE??

Now I've heard it all. . .

Education would alter the status quo. Cambodia they killed the middle class. North Vietnam took all of the land from the wealthy Catholic landowners. The same kind of things (not the Catholics) would have happened in Thailand except when Thailand asked for help SEATO came and helped.

Just my opinion but I have always thought that the Americans were kicked out of Thailand in 1975 because of all the schools we set up and all of the wealthy people we were creating in construction, oil and gas and all the other technical skills we taught the Thais in the 10 years we were in Thailand.

Edited March 21, 2014 by thailiketoo

[beachproperty]

Her neighbors have mostly Thai cars

AND what brand would that be?

It seems Nissan, Honda and Toyota dominate the area, and several Ford trucks, although the people getting out of them wear dress clothes, so perhaps it is status

Then I guess I misunderstood your statement.....as those ARE Japanese and USA Cars.....

Have you been smoking some Thai stick?

[wym]

Education would alter the status quo.

Yes it would, for the better; ridiculous to think otherwise.

[Scarpolo]

Her neighbors have mostly Thai cars

AND what brand would that be?

It seems Nissan, Honda and Toyota dominate the area, and several Ford trucks, although the people getting out of them wear dress clothes, so perhaps it is status

Then I guess I misunderstood your statement.....as those ARE Japanese and USA Cars.....

Have you been smoking some Thai stick?

I wish,

all I found was crappy Cambodian

and the good buds I buried in a planter with a pipe here in my LA hotel, was discovered, only a week ago, and my license expired while in Thailand

[Showbags]

^ easy enough to figure out he meant thai built...not imported.....try it some time, not so hard...staves of dementia too....think thats how you spell stave

[thailiketoo]

It seems Nissan, Honda and Toyota dominate the area, and several Ford trucks, although the people getting out of them wear dress clothes, so perhaps it is status

Then I guess I misunderstood your statement.....as those ARE Japanese and USA Cars.....

Have you been smoking some Thai stick?

That does bring up an interesting point. If a car is manufactured in Thailand is it a Thai car? They buy the steel from the lowest bidder and cast the engine block in Thailand. So is it a Thai engine or an engine from where the steel came from?

Edited March 21, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Scarpolo]

It seems Nissan, Honda and Toyota dominate the area, and several Ford trucks, although the people getting out of them wear dress clothes, so perhaps it is status

Then I guess I misunderstood your statement.....as those ARE Japanese and USA Cars.....

Have you been smoking some Thai stick?

That does bring up an interesting point. If a car is manufactured in Thailand is it a Thai car? They buy the steel from the lowest bidder and cast the engine block in Thailand. So is it a Thai engine or an engine from where the steel came from?

I had never seen any of these cars before, so frankly I wouldnt know what they are

[beachproperty]

here in my LA hotel, was discovered, only a week ago, and my license expired while in Thailand

Your obviously on something then...as you are making not only illogical statements (guess the Thai's aren't the only ones)...but false and misleading ones

Let's recap....You were in Thailand for 6 months (With, according to you, a high end Prostitute!)....

On Tuesday (a few days ago) you flew back to the States and Yesterday you posted how well You Know San Francisco (obviously an expert after being there one day).....

AND NOW...you are referring to YOUR LA hotel....and finding your stash a week ago! (oh and by the way .......What does your license expiring have to do with anything?????)

[wolf5370]

It seems Nissan, Honda and Toyota dominate the area, and several Ford trucks, although the people getting out of them wear dress clothes, so perhaps it is status

Then I guess I misunderstood your statement.....as those ARE Japanese and USA Cars.....

Have you been smoking some Thai stick?

That does bring up an interesting point. If a car is manufactured in Thailand is it a Thai car? They buy the steel from the lowest bidder and cast the engine block in Thailand. So is it a Thai engine or an engine from where the steel came from?

Gets much more confusing: American Company (registered) - owned by shareholders around the world - built in Thailand, from Indian Steel and Chinese aluminium!

[wym]

I'm starting to understand why his posts sometimes seem rational but then often go right off the deep end.

Get yourself sober dude, plenty of NA meetings there in CA, you might even make some decent friends. . .

[thailiketoo]

Education would alter the status quo.

ridiculous.

See how snipping quotes changes the meaning?

I wrote, "Education would alter the status quo. Cambodia they killed the middle class. North Vietnam took all of the land from the wealthy Catholic landowners. The same kind of things (not the Catholics) would have happened in Thailand except when Thailand asked for help SEATO came and helped.

Just my opinion but I have always thought that the Americans were kicked out of Thailand in 1975 because of all the schools we set up and all of the wealthy people we were creating in construction, oil and gas and all the other technical skills we taught the Thais in the 10 years we were in Thailand."

And you wrote, "Yes it would, for the better; ridiculous to think otherwise."

My response would be that America tried to change the education system but they kicked us out because we were effecting the status quo.

I think Thailand is not ready for any serious education. Let it go. When they want our opinions they will ask.

[wym]

Gets much more confusing: American Company (registered) - owned by shareholders around the world - built in Thailand, from Indian Steel and Chinese aluminium!

Corporations transcend borders, nationality is increasingly irrelevant.

[wolf5370]

Easy answer - they all do. The possible difference is that Thailand has generally had better economy to afford to do something about it - yet has not. Even when they have decided to spend money on education they come up with silly schemes that help no one, wastes money and makes companies big buck instead. Language skills are a disgrace for a country so reliant on exports and such a rich tourist industry - class sizes are positively Victorian. They don't need cheap knock-off tablets in one year, they need decent books, decent teachers and a conducive environment for learning.

It is not a fair argument to compare them to the UK, Europe or States sure - and it was only you that did - but it is not an excuse to hide behind either - this is not a poor country, it is no worse off than Japan was in the 50's and 60's - or India up until the 90's - or Brazil up until the 00's - and so on. A country that cares nothing for the education of its young deserves scorn - it's not bashing, it is facing the fact and owning up to priorities.

Thailand bought airplanes and many other technologies from Japan in the 1940's, 50's and 60's. You were the one writing about the Chinese, US and Irish above not I.

If you quickly increase Thailand's education among the poorer classes what follows might be similar to what happened in Laos and Cambodia. Pol Pot's regime targeted intellectuals - including anyone with an education, or with foreign contacts - as well as anyone from the middle or upper classes. All of the doctors, the teachers, the Buddhist monks and nuns, and the engineers died.

Before you reshape the culture of a country one should look at what happened when other cultures in the region were radically changed.

It was not sudden education that caused the issues in Cambodia etc, it was the French pulling out and leaving a power vacuum. It is a completely different scenario - there are already an educated ruling class here - and always has been - it is just that the poor are so willing to be fodder to earn those wealthy elite their ransom without some kind of payback now - some chance of lifted themselves up. This is the crux of the problems that have been happening here since the 73 uprising. Why has it not happened here yet? Simply because, IMO at least, other powerful countries have made sure that communism does not take root in Thailand and that has been the rallying call around which much of the revolution in Asia (and South America) was. Times have moved on - communism is a failed experiment and Thailand is far too consumerist to seriously move that way. The only real thing that changes with education (of the masses) is that economies tend to move from agriculture and production to services and design/invention.

I was referring to the countries you listed, " Laos, Burma, Cambodia and Vietnam" - i.e. neighbours with respect to "all of them should do better" and Thailand best of all due to their larger and more mature economy. I was also talking specifically of education of the underclasses (the masses) - there will always be an elite class of educated business owners to provide technology etc over seas - this only makes them wealthier as individuals and their shareholders most of which are not going to be those masses. Japan in the 50s had a largely under-educated masses (they had schools similar to Thailand well before the war - but only the Elite were properly educated) - as their economy rose and lead the tiger nations, so did their spending on education - they now have one of the best education systems and most literate people anywhere (yes they also have a high student suicide rate - but that is more to do with their concept of second place is failure). China too have been spending on educating their masses - and they have a lot of masses! For the amount of GDP spent on education here, it stinks! It needs to change if Thailand is to compete post ASEAN and in the future - agriculture is getting more competitive and will continue to do so - and as GM crops are accepted wider, then more countries will be able to grow their own and only shop for the cheapness.

There really is no excuse for not educating you own young when you can afford to.

[besth]

Thai logic sounds like an oxymoron to most of us, but it is just a different thought process.

The bit that upsets me sometimes is when I am told "you don't understand". I f#@ing do understand,

I disagree. It is OK to disagree, but look at it this way.

Yes, you guessed, "you don't understand".

I think it is more the matter of them being unable to contemplate things from a different point of view,

because Thai ways are better, than cultural disagreements/different so called logics.

[Rooney860]

_{Yes, they are like children !}

[Rooney860]

Agree 100% mate!!!!!

[wym]

I think Thailand is not ready for any serious education.

The PEOPLE are more than ready, parents are desperate for it.

I honestly think the problem isn't the intention of the repressive PTB, much more that the people expect the government to solve the problem, but they are not competent at any level, they're the root cause of it, and the culture doesn't allow for others to step in and offer creative solutions.

So rather than education causing bloody revolutions, I think in this case that's what it might take to have a chance at fixing the problems. IOW, won't happen.

[thailiketoo]

Easy answer - they all do. The possible difference is that Thailand has generally had better economy to afford to do something about it - yet has not. Even when they have decided to spend money on education they come up with silly schemes that help no one, wastes money and makes companies big buck instead. Language skills are a disgrace for a country so reliant on exports and such a rich tourist industry - class sizes are positively Victorian. They don't need cheap knock-off tablets in one year, they need decent books, decent teachers and a conducive environment for learning.

It is not a fair argument to compare them to the UK, Europe or States sure - and it was only you that did - but it is not an excuse to hide behind either - this is not a poor country, it is no worse off than Japan was in the 50's and 60's - or India up until the 90's - or Brazil up until the 00's - and so on. A country that cares nothing for the education of its young deserves scorn - it's not bashing, it is facing the fact and owning up to priorities.

Thailand bought airplanes and many other technologies from Japan in the 1940's, 50's and 60's. You were the one writing about the Chinese, US and Irish above not I.

If you quickly increase Thailand's education among the poorer classes what follows might be similar to what happened in Laos and Cambodia. Pol Pot's regime targeted intellectuals - including anyone with an education, or with foreign contacts - as well as anyone from the middle or upper classes. All of the doctors, the teachers, the Buddhist monks and nuns, and the engineers died.

Before you reshape the culture of a country one should look at what happened when other cultures in the region were radically changed.

It was not sudden education that caused the issues in Cambodia etc, it was the French pulling out and leaving a power vacuum. It is a completely different scenario - there are already an educated ruling class here - and always has been - it is just that the poor are so willing to be fodder to earn those wealthy elite their ransom without some kind of payback now - some chance of lifted themselves up. This is the crux of the problems that have been happening here since the 73 uprising. Why has it not happened here yet? Simply because, IMO at least, other powerful countries have made sure that communism does not take root in Thailand and that has been the rallying call around which much of the revolution in Asia (and South America) was. Times have moved on - communism is a failed experiment and Thailand is far too consumerist to seriously move that way. The only real thing that changes with education (of the masses) is that economies tend to move from agriculture and production to services and design/invention.

I was referring to the countries you listed, " Laos, Burma, Cambodia and Vietnam" - i.e. neighbours with respect to "all of them should do better" and Thailand best of all due to their larger and more mature economy. I was also talking specifically of education of the underclasses (the masses) - there will always be an elite class of educated business owners to provide technology etc over seas - this only makes them wealthier as individuals and their shareholders most of which are not going to be those masses. Japan in the 50s had a largely under-educated masses (they had schools similar to Thailand well before the war - but only the Elite were properly educated) - as their economy rose and lead the tiger nations, so did their spending on education - they now have one of the best education systems and most literate people anywhere (yes they also have a high student suicide rate - but that is more to do with their concept of second place is failure). China too have been spending on educating their masses - and they have a lot of masses! For the amount of GDP spent on education here, it stinks! It needs to change if Thailand is to compete post ASEAN and in the future - agriculture is getting more competitive and will continue to do so - and as GM crops are accepted wider, then more countries will be able to grow their own and only shop for the cheapness.

There really is no excuse for not educating you own young when you can afford to.

I agree at least partly but would point out that I think what you mean is education that you think is adequate.

China also is experiencing a flood of graduates in its labour market, causing many of its graduates to settle for low salaries, some of which are almost on par with wages for labourers. Some experts predict that in the next 10 years, this problem will only become worse, making a solution difficult to find. The solution for China is to decrease growth in its higher education sector from 20% to 6 – 8% by setting more rigorous admission standards.

The latest news also reports that Cambodia has hundreds of thousands of unemployed graduates. The Economic Institute of Cambodia (EIC) reported that in 2007, only 1 graduate in 10 could find a job.

In Thailand, the Education Council estimated that the number of new students enrolled in bachelors programs between 2007 and 2016 will be approximately 500,000 each year, resulting in between 300,000 to 400,000 new graduates per annum. The only problem is that Thailand’s labour market does not need this number of graduates with bachelors degrees.

http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/print.php?id=2435

[Scarpolo]

here in my LA hotel, was discovered, only a week ago, and my license expired while in Thailand

Your obviously on something then...as you are making not only illogical statements (guess the Thai's aren't the only ones)...but false and misleading ones

Let's recap....You were in Thailand for 6 months (With, according to you, a high end Prostitute!)....

On Tuesday (a few days ago) you flew back to the States and Yesterday you posted how well You Know San Francisco (obviously an expert after being there one day).....

AND NOW...you are referring to YOUR LA hotel....and finding your stash a week ago! (oh and by the way .......What does your license expiring have to do with anything?????)

Marijuana license.

Expired last month.

Yes, and I will be back in SF on saturday to see this band perform:

http://www.zepparella.com/shows.php

I stay at Fairmont properties, want to call me in LA, (after I return from the steam room that is) today

and on Saturday call me in SF?

[thailiketoo]

I think Thailand is not ready for any serious education.

The PEOPLE are more than ready, parents are desperate for it.

I honestly think the problem isn't the intention of the repressive PTB, much more that the people expect the government to solve the problem, but they are not competent at any level, they're the root cause of it, and the culture doesn't allow for others to step in and offer creative solutions.

So rather than education causing bloody revolutions, I think in this case that's what it might take to have a chance at fixing the problems. IOW, won't happen.

You are changing the meaning of my posts by snipping parts and leaving other parts just as I pointed out in the last post so I will no longer respond.

Thai Visa rule, "15) Do not make changes to quoted material that changes the intended meaning of the quoted post."

If you want to make your own rules launch your own forum.

[Naam]

Are thai people the most illogical people you have ever met?

the most illogical people i have met in 7½ years reading and posting in Thaivisa