Leaving Thailand for China, here is why

[David48]

If you are going to live in the first tier cities eg Shanghai or Beijing,you will need at least 2000 US dollars a month to have a half reasonable life.

$2,000 a month,

thats half of what you would think for cosmopolitan and sofisticated

What qualifies you to give advice on the general costs of living there?

Scarpolo, have you lived extensively in China?

Please regale us with your extensive exploits there.

sofisticated - sophisticated

[strikingsunset]

Well my monthly cost of living in Shanghai is around $ 3000 a month,it can be done for $2000 a month,but it's not the lifestyle I want.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[MrHammer]

OP,

have you been to china?

I am interested to hear of your future, and hope you update your thread.

I would have been interested in golf but it appears physically defeating here,

the one poster who has been married 34 years is an exception,

but I would like to know how people prosper in thailand

I have been to Hong Kong. This time I plan to take a 3 month intensive mandarin course in Taiwan, then proceed from there.

[strikingsunset]

Golf in China,budget 200 usd per round.

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[Scarpolo]

Golf in China,budget 200 usd per round.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Average price south floirida:

$20 to $70 -

$65 - $120 in season

[angiud]

Please do not derail the thread with personal insults. The OP share his legitimate thought on Thailand and China.

Post deleted

[Nautilus05]

I still don't see where the 'bashing' element comes into play?

You're right that I've lived in an expat ghetto, though more japanese here than farang, and that I've grown tired of the partying and that's when I discovered that once I took away the party scene, there wasn't much else to interest me.

Your whole OP basically bashed Thailand. Nightlife in BKK sucks nowadays and is just filled with a bunch of sleazy Issan whores, Thais are xenophobic and have nothing but contempt for foreigners, no quality in materials or people, no business / career opportunities, etc.

All the while, it doesn't sound like it has anything to do with Thailand. Yes, if you live in a farang ghetto and center your lifestyle in an area filled with tourists, expats, and Thais who have chosen the lifestyle of working in the entertainment industry and/or who go clubbing & partying every night, then you're right, you're probably not going to find very intelligent or sophisticated people. Nor will you find great career opportunities.

Then you mention learning Thai is too high of a language barrier, so you're switching over to Mandarin. I don't really understand the logic there, but all the power to you. China may have more opportunities than Thailand, but I can promise it's going to be quite brutal to be able to seize those opportunities.

[NeverSure]

China is communist. Most of the means of production belong to the government. China's exports and economy are dropping dramatically. If there ever was a system under which you have the haves and the have nots, it's in communism.

If you get lucky and get a senior management job with a foreign company which avails itself of cheap Chinese labor, you will do very well. If you fall into the middle class even of Westerners, it will be difficult.

I know two people who have done very well in China. One is in senior management for Nike, and he started with Nike in the US. He decided to learn Mandarin and eventually got himself transferred to China.

I think he would have done just as well in the US. After all, a senior manager for Nike is going to do well.

Good luck. I'm hearing you say what you expect to find. I expect that you will be disappointed. China is another country where it really matters who you know if you try to start there.

[Morakot]

Good luck in China! Why not write a post justifying your decision for leaving Thailand.

[Soutpeel]

I spent time in PRChina 1988 to late 90's when you needed an invite from a Communist Party Official to get a multi-entry visa which is what I had. When I was in China, they were poor. No desire to go back.

I was there for nearly 2 years in the very early 90's and really enjoyed it, even with the "Party spy's" on the site watching/listening to everything going on amongst the expats, the political inteview we had to do with the security police was kinda "fun"....Even the "Party" lads were not bad people once you got to know them.

For the local Chinese lads we used to "smuggle" large quantities of Johnny Walker and Malboro reds in for them and coming through the border with HK was rather "James Bondish" and even if we got caught by customs, they got to know us, they would just laugh confiscate your excess whiskey and cigarettes and wave you on...it was all quite light hearted

the only draw back was that "fraternising" with the local single ladies at the time was frowned upon, and if you got caught, you could find yourself with a one way ticket out of China, and if the story was true the lady concerned would be getting some "re-education" in good communist "morals"

Not that it matter too much, as we were let out of China every second weekend for a long weekend in Hong Kong to go on the lash...

[ARISTIDE]

In China you could get arrested and the police can simply seize your belongings or for no reason. With the attitude I doubt you will be popular in China either!

[daveAustin]

Interesting post despite the racist undertone (weird looking halfbreeds?); but perhaps you should've broadened your horizons. Bkk is just a city and an ugly one at that.

Much of what you say is not untrue (wanting their cake and to eat it). I think more of us would escape if we had the will to, it is all too easy to coast and accept/brush off contempt/rotten service etc, but the much higher cost of living, political upheaval and burgeoning violence/disdain for others in general is swaying more and more people to move on.

All the best with it and don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out.

[Khun Loong]

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Look at Myanmar as well. Now that its opened up their is a huge boom for skilled workers. The rest is the rest. Good luck in China

No please no more whore mungers from Thailand to Burma. It's still so nice there because it's not flooded with white trash yet.

[gabruce]

Why do you feel the need to explain yourself here ? No one cares.

totster

I disagree. Thoughtful posts here are useful. It gives me a chance to see a different perspective and see if it prompts something new in my reasons for being here. Of course if someone is here just waiting to die, or staying for a brief holiday, then the post has no relevance or utility. There are many different types of people that are in Thailand (or thinking of coming here), some find this useful, some don't. I found it useful reading and appreciate the time the poster took to share.

[Mentors]

Some good points. Good luck in China.

[MrHammer]

I still don't see where the 'bashing' element comes into play?

You're right that I've lived in an expat ghetto, though more japanese here than farang, and that I've grown tired of the partying and that's when I discovered that once I took away the party scene, there wasn't much else to interest me.

Your whole OP basically bashed Thailand. Nightlife in BKK sucks nowadays and is just filled with a bunch of sleazy Issan whores, Thais are xenophobic and have nothing but contempt for foreigners, no quality in materials or people, no business / career opportunities, etc.

All the while, it doesn't sound like it has anything to do with Thailand. Yes, if you live in a farang ghetto and center your lifestyle in an area filled with tourists, expats, and Thais who have chosen the lifestyle of working in the entertainment industry and/or who go clubbing & partying every night, then you're right, you're probably not going to find very intelligent or sophisticated people. Nor will you find great career opportunities.

Then you mention learning Thai is too high of a language barrier, so you're switching over to Mandarin. I don't really understand the logic there, but all the power to you. China may have more opportunities than Thailand, but I can promise it's going to be quite brutal to be able to seize those opportunities.

I could mention other things which add to my decision such as the insane traffic, polution, lack of caring about common areas, for example, the fact that people in my soi drive Porsches but throw their trash on the street like a Mumbai slum. That you can't walk 100 meters without some horrible noise blaring at you or a commercial playing at full volume everywhere. That visa requirements are specifically made to keep people from staying (you get 3 months as a given in Taiwan and Hong Kong for example). That permanent residence here is all but impossible, where as there are fixed and firm rules for such things in Taiwan and Hong Kong.

I mean, these are minor annoyances, but I've been willing to accept them because I felt the price was worth it. I don't do so now. I don't think learning Mandarin will be easier, but I think the return on investment will be worth it compared to learning Thai in Thailand. After all, speaking Mandarin opens all kind of doors, where as speaking Thai doesn't really do much.

[kannot]

OP,

have you been to china?

I am interested to hear of your future, and hope you update your thread.

I would have been interested in golf but it appears physically defeating here,

the one poster who has been married 34 years is an exception,

but I would like to know how people prosper in thailand

My Wife works flat out is how I prosper, +200k a month, however before I gave her the helping hand to realise what she could earn she was on 11-12k a month and I dont mean I started her up spending millions in "yet another noodle bar", the investment was more in time than money and long since the initial investment has been fully returned to me.

[kannot]

I still don't see where the 'bashing' element comes into play?

You're right that I've lived in an expat ghetto, though more japanese here than farang, and that I've grown tired of the partying and that's when I discovered that once I took away the party scene, there wasn't much else to interest me.

Your whole OP basically bashed Thailand. Nightlife in BKK sucks nowadays and is just filled with a bunch of sleazy Issan whores, Thais are xenophobic and have nothing but contempt for foreigners, no quality in materials or people, no business / career opportunities, etc.

All the while, it doesn't sound like it has anything to do with Thailand. Yes, if you live in a farang ghetto and center your lifestyle in an area filled with tourists, expats, and Thais who have chosen the lifestyle of working in the entertainment industry and/or who go clubbing & partying every night, then you're right, you're probably not going to find very intelligent or sophisticated people. Nor will you find great career opportunities.

Then you mention learning Thai is too high of a language barrier, so you're switching over to Mandarin. I don't really understand the logic there, but all the power to you. China may have more opportunities than Thailand, but I can promise it's going to be quite brutal to be able to seize those opportunities.

I could mention other things which add to my decision such as the insane traffic, polution, lack of caring about common areas, for example, the fact that people in my soi drive Porsches but throw their trash on the street like a Mumbai slum. That you can't walk 100 meters without some horrible noise blaring at you or a commercial playing at full volume everywhere. That visa requirements are specifically made to keep people from staying (you get 3 months as a given in Taiwan and Hong Kong for example). That permanent residence here is all but impossible, where as there are fixed and firm rules for such things in Taiwan and Hong Kong.

I mean, these are minor annoyances, but I've been willing to accept them because I felt the price was worth it. I don't do so now. I don't think learning Mandarin will be easier, but I think the return on investment will be worth it compared to learning Thai in Thailand. After all, speaking Mandarin opens all kind of doors, where as speaking Thai doesn't really do much.

Many things you say ring true but many just wont see it, however on a recent business class flight on Emirates Uk to Thailand there was the most obnoxious English man I have ever heard, drunk and swearing constantly, money doesnt make anyone a better person, I can just see the Porsche owner chucking his crap out of the window, they might have the money but still have NO CLASS whatsoever probably more of a "look at me" type.

[jkinbkk]

Absolutely and whole heartedly agree with the OP's summary, including his point on Business & Career Opportunities. I am experiencing the exact same phenomenon.

I lived in BKK for 8 years before spending a 3 year stint in India. Having returned 1 year ago to BKK and felt immediately uncomfortable and uninterested.

To remedy this I relocated up country and have found again the Thailand i fell in love with all those years ago.

Life is fabulous here.

I avoid like the plague BKK these days as it's demise seems to have accelerated in recent months due to knock of effects of the mod insurgence. The terminal velocity of this downward spiral has yet to be reached!

When it does it's gonna be pretty f-cking ugly for all there!

[strikingsunset]

I agree,learning Mandarin will not be easy.I studied the language for a term/semester at Jiaotong university in Shanghai,on the first day of term there were 30 eager students,2 months later in the last class I attended there were 3,so a dropout rate of 90 per cent,I Think 70 per cent is more the norm, it is an incredibly difficult language to master.

I admire your ambition to go to China,but without fluent Mandarin ( surely a 2 year immersion needed for that) and without "Guanxi" ( connections),you are in for an incredible challenge to sustain a life there,unless you can survive on unearned income ( current savings etc).

Yes it's possible to meet lovely girls,their first question,almost without exception is..

" what is your job?",so they can ascertain your income level in relation to their expectations.

Then you have the " visa " hurdle to constantly face,I Would do some internet research and read blogs on this to get yourself up to speed on that issue.

So,I am not trying to " rain on your parade", just pass on some of my experience.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Braddockrd]

555 you are really ignorant my friend... You are leaving the pot for the frying pan... Oh yeah, the Chinese are friendly and love foreigners, and if you are white they kneel in from of you. Stop dreaming. The attributes you mention are a constant all throughout Asia. The disdain of foreigners is a constant no matter where you go, even more in Northern Asia. The only ones who will respect you are the rice eaters in the villages where they have never seen the white man. You must be proud of that! Other than Philippines or Indonesia, Asians tend to be cold and unfriendly. And In Philippines and Indonesia friendliness is not gratuitous either. Maybe Singapore has the most evolved culture, but that makes them respectful, not necessarily friendly. If you want to escape all those things you mention just go to Central or South America. Spanish will be easier for you to learn than Chinese!

Edited March 31, 2014 by Braddockrd

[danmarnj]

Chasing affordability by hopping to different third world countries is a prime example why I bit the bullet in my younger days and put in the required years for a good pension/savings plan and transferable benefits from my western country.

Not saying that the OP is not well off, but suggesting to younger expats with no career benefits accumulated to think about older age which sneaks up pretty quickly

[NanLaew]

I am actually a long time reader of TV but over the years I have refrained from posting mainly because of the negative thai bashing people on here.

Then of Friday I was talking to a mate about this forum and I asked why do expats that live in Thailand just bag the the place and it's people and yet still stay there?

We'll he said those people with such attitudes will never be happy anywhere on earth it's just in their DNA basically they are just narks and lead a miserable life and want other people to come down to their level.

You and I won't call you sir are a typical example of the negative farangs that should have never stayed in the first place.

So go and take your negative thai bashing views and go and inflict your racist negative views on the Chinese .

Their loss thai lands gain.

And I hope the doors hits you on the way out!

And you sir is a perfect example of the other side of the coin, the hopeless naive who will be back here in a couple of years moaning over having lost their house or having been scammed.

If you read the post at all, you would have noticed that I do not really blame the Thai, nor could what I wrote in any way be construed as 'racist' or 'Thai bashing'.

There is always another side to the coin. One man's trash is another man's treasure and reverse. What appeals to many about Thailand: the corruption and freedom associated with it, the low education levels and therefore low incomes and low cost of living, is also the reason for many of its problems. For me, the positives do no longer outweigh the negatives and so, I have chosen to leave. That is a personal decision and one which you don't have to agree with. Maybe your requirements for a happy life are different than mine?

I might be a miserable nark, but I'll be slightly less miserable once I leave Thailand.

To paraphrase the self-proclaimed, 'non Thai bashing' OP...

The clientele on the lady side is still the same Isaan whores... but what the &lt;deleted&gt; is the point in having to compete for isaan prostitutes?... unless you want to meet the destitute farmer girl. ...There is always the implied idea that you're a whoremonger with the Thais. ... [in China] The white man is not seen merely as a despicable walking wallet to be fleeced in between whoremongering activities. ...Oh yeah, and their women are far more attractive than the isaan prostitutes or the weird looking halfbreeds adored by the Thai media. ...I won't be back except perhaps for a quick prostitution spree - the Thai way.

So, how much exactly did your Isaan princess screw you out of?

[MrHammer]

555 you are really ignorant my friend... You are leaving the pot for the frying pan... Oh yeah, the Chinese are friendly and love foreigners, and if you are white they kneel in from of you. Stop dreaming. The attributes you mention are a constant all throughout Asia. The disdain of foreigners is a constant no matter where you go, even more in Northern Asia. The only ones who will respect you are the rice eaters in the villages where they have never seen the white man. You must be proud of that! Other than Philippines or Indonesia, Asians tend to be cold and unfriendly. And In Philippines and Indonesia friendliness is not gratuitous either. Maybe Singapore has the most evolved culture, but that makes them respectful, not necessarily friendly. If you want to escape all those things you mention just go to Central or South America. Spanish will be easier for you to learn than Chinese!

Yeah, I am sure you are right, however I have in fact known quite a few chinese in recent years and I do at least like that they don't mask their emotion as much. I do not need or want fake friendliness or groveling. I would much rather a chinese from the old generation curse me out in public, than a Thai smiling at me then muttering the same to their friends. I prefer less frequent genuine smiles over fake smiles every day.

I hear your suggestion about central and south america and have considered it seriously but businesswise I am not sure it is the right place to be for me at the moment. I have time to go there later too.

[HeavyDrinker]

So basically the OP feels he is getting too old for the scene?

He can't get any tail or feels out-shined by the younger lads so it's off to try another country with plenty of impoverished women who may be lining up to dip into his pants and savings?

The snag is that he is looking for some imagined Shangri-La (which I doubt exists) full of willing hot young crumpet, people queueing up to employ the white man brimming with sophisticated ideas and his perfect employment record....but isn't everyone? I have a feeling that when he arrives he'll find he's not the first in the line....

Edited March 31, 2014 by HeavyDrinker

[lovetotravel]

have you ever lived in China before? I have spent some 6 months there, in various places. And have many friends who haved lived there. Their list of reasons for leaving are as long as yours. But as you say, from a business point of view, there are good opportunities there.

For me, it is a great country to visit, but I could never live there. The lack of safety standards there is as bad or worse than here. My buddy lived in Shanghai for 8 years. He said he had a hospital visit about every 6 months due to food problems. one resulted in a week long stay.

The constant spitting, honking horns, terrible drivers pushing and shoving, etc are too much for me. Along with the "little emperor" attitude of many.

Best of luck and hope you make the best of your move! I am also looking for alternatives to Thailand. Just haven't found one that fits me yet. ;-(

[ppmacready]

If I wasn't 53 and lived here so long , I'd move on too!

[chrisinth]

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Quote

Quote

I spent time in PRChina 1988 to late 90's when you needed an invite from a Communist Party Official to get a multi-entry visa which is what I had. When I was in China, they were poor. No desire to go back.

I was there for nearly 2 years in the very early 90's and really enjoyed it, even with the "Party spy's" on the site watching/listening to everything going on amongst the expats, the political inteview we had to do with the security police was kinda "fun"....Even the "Party" lads were not bad people once you got to know them.

For the local Chinese lads we used to "smuggle" large quantities of Johnny Walker and Malboro reds in for them and coming through the border with HK was rather "James Bondish" and even if we got caught by customs, they got to know us, they would just laugh confiscate your excess whiskey and cigarettes and wave you on...it was all quite light hearted

the only draw back was that "fraternising" with the local single ladies at the time was frowned upon, and if you got caught, you could find yourself with a one way ticket out of China, and if the story was true the lady concerned would be getting some "re-education" in good communist "morals"

Not that it matter too much, as we were let out of China every second weekend for a long weekend in Hong Kong to go on the lash...

That's funny, I spent nearly 3 years in HK trying to stop the Chinese chaps smuggling the Marlboro & Johnny Walker in via smuggling boats at the time. That was along with the Mercedes, minivans and anything else that wasn't bolted down. Hundreds of high speed purpose built boats doing the run every night.

Obviously it didn't work out too well from our side....................

HK at that time was the place to go on the lash................

[JLCrab]

As the OP mentions pollution:

Now China’s Super Rich Are Fleeing to Avoid Smog

http://time.com/28858/china-smog/ 18 March 2014

[Scarpolo]

OP,

have you been to china?

I am interested to hear of your future, and hope you update your thread.

I would have been interested in golf but it appears physically defeating here,

the one poster who has been married 34 years is an exception,

but I would like to know how people prosper in thailand

My Wife works flat out is how I prosper, +200k a month, however before I gave her the helping hand to realise what she could earn she was on 11-12k a month and I dont mean I started her up spending millions in "yet another noodle bar", the investment was more in time than money and long since the initial investment has been fully returned to me.

thank you for your (non) answer