Checks begin on foreigners working in Phuket dive industry

[Khun Robert]

I hope the checks will not stop at Phuket but will go around all the other destinations for diving.

Last time I visited a dive boat with a friend the Boatmaster told me that I'm not welcome on the boat. Well I work as Scuba Dive Instructor (written in my work permit), I went out to perform a scuba review, my friend did not dive for 4 years.

I asked the boatmaster if he holds a work permit, his answer: "No, why"?.

A few month ago, i had to report to Tourist Police in Krabi. I took all my original papers and a full set of photo copies, marked with the text: "For Tourist Police" to the office.

After check I asked them what the problem is, I was reported as working illegal in Thailand by 2 dive centers in Ao Nang.

Tourist Police declared all my papers are official and correct and I can work as Instructor.

In Ao Nang there is no extortion of money by the Police, it is a voluntary contribution every month. All the dive centers claim that it is cheaper to make a monthly contribution than to organize the paper works for their staff.

As long as every body is happy, the dive centers with paying, the police with collection, this will go on.

Unfortunately very good Thai dive masters, good in English, sitting at home because the shops prefer illegal guides above the local Thais, otherwise the voluntary contribution is done for nothing.

When I'm out diving I see the boats coming in from Phuket. Can somebody explain me how it works: only 191 Instructors working for 114 shops. Thats less than 2 Instructors a shop?

They much teach a lot of people at the same time. I prefer smaller groups, sorry.

[impulse]

How many qualifed Thai underwater tour guides are there? I can't imagine that these Thai's not only are instructors or at least divemasters, but have the requisite tour guide licence that is issued by the TAT.

We have dozens of very qualified Thai divers doing work on our offshore installations regularly. My offshore safety certification included instruction from extremely qualified Thai commercial divers.

But most of them wouldn't take the pay cut required to go to work as employees in the tourist dive market. Weed out the foreigners working on a subsistence wage just to stay in Thailand and dive to their hearts' content, and maybe the salaries on offer would increase enough that they'd go back to guiding tourists.

Still sucks for anyone who has finely crafted a lifestyle for themselves within the loopholes.

[Fookhaht]

So, it sounds like the foreign instructors can teach the customers how to dive. Then a Thai drives them out to the diving site. Then the customers dive into the sea and hope to find the coral. If they get into problems, bad luck.

Why can't Thai instructors teach customers how to dive? It's not a question of intelligence or skill is it?

The spirit of the labor laws are that jobs for foreigners are limited to only things that Thais CANNOT do.

I don't get it.

[MMarlow]

Just what do they mean about not working as " Underwater tour guides " ? Are they saying that Instructors or Divemasters are no longer allowed to take certified divers around the dive sites ? There needs to be review of the working laws in Thailand so everyone knows just what they can and cannot do to avoid situations like this.

Read the OP, that's what this is all about!

[MMarlow]

Just what do they mean about not working as " Underwater tour guides " ? Are they saying that Instructors or Divemasters are no longer allowed to take certified divers around the dive sites ?...

It seems that is what they are saying.

That is considered tourguiding, which has never been allowed. That is also why only instructors, not divemasters, can obtain a workpermit.

I don't mind this check at all, although this has happened multiple times this season, but would be even happier if they were to check for people working without workpermits.

Agree with you, but technically that is what is going to be happening, those in the dive business doing things the WP does not allow are effectively working without a permit.

[Halion]

Have been diving in this region for over 30 years mainly wreck diving down to 60 meters. I have dived with about every nationality under the sun including some Thai nationals who were proficient, however, the safety culture in Thailand or rather lack of it makes it problematic to have a Thai in charge of the safety of tourist divers some of whom have little experience and are only marginally qualified.

When incidents occur under water in a dive situation problems become exponential if proper actions are not taken immediately. This Tour Guide scenario is just so typical of this myopic nation who want to provide income for their nationals at the expense of safety for their customers.

[somchaismith]

They should've stopped whining about being shaken down. Plenty of illegals in that industry - can't have something for nothing.

A pity for the ones who didn't rock the boat.

[Noi657]

Rules are rules, like it or loath it you have two choices!

[thepool]

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Have been diving in this region for over 30 years mainly wreck diving down to 60 meters. I have dived with about every nationality under the sun including some Thai nationals who were proficient, however, the safety culture in Thailand or rather lack of it makes it problematic to have a Thai in charge of the safety of tourist divers some of whom have little experience and are only marginally qualified.

When incidents occur under water in a dive situation problems become exponential if proper actions are not taken immediately. This Tour Guide scenario is just so typical of this myopic nation who want to provide income for their nationals at the expense of safety for their customers.

Who in their right mind would take a "marginally qualified diver" to 60 meters

Sorry

I already know it is "Super Person" AKA "know it all" farang !

[benny1616]

i really agree for this reason. this diving companys are far overcharging they customers, take so much money for diving that the ordinary exploitet thai can never afford to learn this sport diving. its only for farang and therefore really strange. wonder why the goverment not put a price restriction and not only for ripping of companys like them. i would kick out of thailand all companys like them

[CWN]

Sorrry to say, but better boycott Phuket and maybe all Thailand for a couple of years.

Their work permit laws are just insane and stupid.

You cannot even paint your own villa or pick up friends by your car, showing them around the Island.

Let it all sink, maybe some Thai can wake up and swim.

[Maroon Watcher]

We want it NOW - we want inflated (price) - we want it done OUR way...

Oh! Its GONE!!

So, it sounds like the foreign instructors can teach the customers how to dive. Then a Thai drives them out to the diving site. Then the customers dive into the sea and hope to find the coral. If they get into problems, bad luck.

[manarak]

So basically the extortion racket is changing offices?

sometimes things meant to be a joke turn out to be what really happens.

[fonsboy]

That foreigners still invest in Thailand is a mystery to me! You can't own your own business 100% and if you work outside you office or province you are violating your work permit rules . Bullshit rules.

boi investment 100%, but yes not for cheap charlie's..

A small diving business cannot afford a BOI. It’s mostly for big export orientated companies.

90% of Fallangs " working " in Thailand cannot afford it but they still bum around .

[HeavyDrinker]

Be thankful you got fair warning or tomorrow there could have been a corking pic in the papers, here and on TV showing loads of Westerners on some Phuket dock on their haunches, caught without their documents in order, with chubby officers pointing at them,

[connda]

Thanks for the advanced notice!

[tonypace02]

That foreigners still invest in Thailand is a mystery to me! You can't own your own business 100% and if you work outside you office or province you are violating your work permit rules . Bullshit rules.

Wish we had such laws in the U.S. And I think the UK could use some of that Bullshit as well.

[DLP]

i really agree for this reason. this diving companys are far overcharging they customers, take so much money for diving that the ordinary exploitet thai can never afford to learn this sport diving. its only for farang and therefore really strange. wonder why the goverment not put a price restriction and not only for ripping of companys like them. i would kick out of thailand all companys like them

How could they sink so low ?

[stickylies]

Have been diving in this region for over 30 years mainly wreck diving down to 60 meters. I have dived with about every nationality under the sun including some Thai nationals who were proficient, however, the safety culture in Thailand or rather lack of it makes it problematic to have a Thai in charge of the safety of tourist divers some of whom have little experience and are only marginally qualified.

When incidents occur under water in a dive situation problems become exponential if proper actions are not taken immediately. This Tour Guide scenario is just so typical of this myopic nation who want to provide income for their nationals at the expense of safety for their customers.

well let them do it. if it's gonna be like u say say thailand will get bad reputation and people will dive elsewhere or ... die.

i don't get the fuzz to be honest. except that farang AGAIN think they are very important here......

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

That foreigners still invest in Thailand is a mystery to me! You can't own your own business 100% and if you work outside you office or province you are violating your work permit rules . Bullshit rules.

boi investment 100%, but yes not for cheap charlie's..

A small diving business cannot afford a BOI. It’s mostly for big export orientated companies.

90% of Fallangs " working " in Thailand cannot afford it but they still bum around .

Maybe those "bums" create allot of jobs for the locals and fill up the local hotels and other tourist related businesses and are great ambassadors for getting tourist coming here (something the Thais in Phuket having a hard time to understand). Personally I would not put my life in a Thai Diving or parachute instructor’s hand , "safety first" Thai style is "profit first"

[Phuketboy]

It would be much easier to simply make work permits universal. This would mean you have a permit to work in Thailand, run business and not be worried. This is what happens in other countries, however as we all know Thailand isn't all countries and I understand they want to protect Thai jobs. So make the permit universal for all work except that which is restricted or Thai only.

[GAZZPA]

That foreigners still invest in Thailand is a mystery to me! You can't own your own business 100% and if you work outside you office or province you are violating your work permit rules . Bullshit rules.

Completely agree. The reality is that Thailand doesn't want you here, they want your money but not you, all of the evidence points to this. This is all a roundabout way of trying to make it as difficult as possible but without losing your money and keeping you as restricted as possible. For locals the rules are different of course.

Probably get shot down for this but it is my opinion that Thailand has to create bullshit rules because without the "unlevel" playing field Thailand could not compete. If you look at the 2 big food grocers in Thailand BIG C and Tesco both are foreign owned,, this is very unusual for a country with over 70 million people to not have it's own local, dominant supermarket.

i don't know why the foreign money doesn't go elsewhere nowadays, there are other investment opportunities in Asia with easier and more friendly working practices.

As mentioned a million times across many posts the corruption and nonsense is what will hold Thailand back,, it needs to grow up or fall behind.

[BlackJack]

I dont mean to be pedantic but 2 words jump out

teacher (dive instructors) and student (dive customers)

“According to the work permit, dive instructors may only teach their customers how to dive correctly; they can’t work as [underwater] tour guide. I’m going to remind them again about this.”

There is no tour guide going on - there is managing students.

Its is the same as a teacher in a school managing students doing what they are studying.

The dive companies run commercial enterprises and so do schools but i wouldn't call them tours if you are studying.

[rosst]

I live in Isaan, was going to dive Thailand, forget it, Philippines here I come. What bullship

[Muhendis]

So the Atus complains to the governor about police extortion and the police are not investigated. 'Tis all them foreigners again........

[Fullstop]

New

Crackdown

ZZzzz

[stevenl]

So the Atus complains to the governor about police extortion and the police are not investigated. 'Tis all them foreigners again........

Not true, the alledged extortion is being investigated.

[stevenl]

I dont mean to be pedantic but 2 words jump out

teacher (dive instructors) and student (dive customers)

According to the work permit, dive instructors may only teach their customers how to dive correctly; they cant work as [underwater] tour guide. Im going to remind them again about this.

There is no tour guide going on - there is managing students.

Its is the same as a teacher in a school managing students doing what they are studying.

The dive companies run commercial enterprises and so do schools but i wouldn't call them tours if you are studying.

This has been explained earlier in the tread. There is dive instruction for students, either beginers or more advance students, and guiding for divrrs who do not want more instruction. For instruction a foreigner can get a workpermit, foreigner, not farang with many asian instructors in the aa, guiding is a profesion reserved for Thai, so a foreigner can not get a workpermit for that and is not allowed to do that.

[stevenl]

I live in Isaan, was going to dive Thailand, forget it, Philippines here I come. What bullship

What exactly is bullshit? I am in the industry, and would really like it if the illegal companies were terminated and people without workpermit would be done something about as well. For the whole of Thailand diving please.

[steelepulse]

I live in Isaan, was going to dive Thailand, forget it, Philippines here I come. What bullship

What exactly is bullshit? I am in the industry, and would really like it if the illegal companies were terminated and people without workpermit would be done something about as well. For the whole of Thailand diving please.

I'm not in the industry, but do recreational dives here and I rarely if ever see a Thai divemaster or instructor on any of the boats I've ever been on. I'm curious as to how many qualified underwater tour instructors there actually are working in the industry. Are there enough to sustain the industry as it is now? What's your guessimate on this? Furthermore, I'd be curious if a poll was taken, how many foreign dive students feel safe with a Thai underwater tour guide. I'd dare to say the percentage would be quite low.

I really do see this clampdown as payback for the whistle being blown on the bib perps for rocking their boat ( ie, infringing on their nice little money maker they had going).