Hefty withdrawal fee from local atm's- Not the 150 baht variety

[steelepulse]

Over the last two months, I made a withdrawal of 5000 baht at a SCB branch, and a 10K withdrawal from a kbank. In the past I never really even looked at the fees, as it was always around 150 baht and 1% of withdrawal value. It now appears that my US based bank is stinging me for 3% plus the local bank for $5.00 ( not 150 baht).

3% seens awfully steep on top of the $5.00. I'm going to ask the US based bank for clairification on these usurious rates charged for a withdrawal, seeing as they don't even pay 3% per annum on deposits!

[Pib]

Not uncommon....many banks (the majority) have a 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee and maybe also a flat fee added on top for use of their debit/credit card in a foreign area. In fact I think Bank of America debit cards charge a 3% fee plus $5 flat fee for a foreign transaction. And of course any local ATM fee, like the Bt150-180 foreign card fee charged by Thai banks/AEON is passed along to your bank account also. But there are banks/companies out there that do not charge any foreign transaction fee and even reimburse local ATM fees...such as the Schwab debit card.

Since I mentioned BoA, take a look at this very recent post in the thread about AEON now charging the Bt150...the post talks about BoA the debit card foreign transaction fee of 3% + $5 per transaction. BoA's fee is on the high side but many banks do charge 1, 2, or 3% and maybe also a flat fee.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Pib

[steelepulse]

I missed that thread mentioned, but B of A are indeed the culprits..........shysters!

[Pib]

I still have a BoA bank account (not really sure why) along with their debit card and one of their credit cards...BoA was my main bank account when arriving Thailand years back, but I knew their cards carried foreign transaction fees, but it really didn't sink-in to how the foreign transaction fees could drain my pockets and make the bank rich. BoA is fine for use within the U.S. and for ACH transfers, but generally BoA has healthy foreign transaction fees on most of its card products. But I recovered and opened new bank and credit card accounts that do not charge a foreign transaction fee like Schawb Bank, Capital One credit cards, plus other banks/companies. Plenty of threads on ThaiVisa about such no foreign transaction fee products. You just need to open some new accounts which do not charge foreign transaction fees. Cheers.

[alfalfa19]

I'm getting a schwab card before my next trip. Has anyone recently used AE traveler's checks? I've heard some reports that the cashing fee is now 150 baht instead of the 30 I am accustomed to. Can anybody verify or debunk this?

[Pib]

I'm getting a schwab card before my next trip. Has anyone recently used AE traveler's checks? I've heard some reports that the cashing fee is now 150 baht instead of the 30 I am accustomed to. Can anybody verify or debunk this?

It's true...Thai banks have raised their traveler checks cashing fee five fold from 30 baht plus 3 baht stamp duty to 150 baht plus 3 baht stamp duty for each and every check. This has occur over the last month or so. Please note the govt stamp duty remained 3 baht...it's just the Thai banks increasing their fee by five fold...the govt did not increase any fee. Had a friend visit from the U.S. a few weeks ago who brought over some traveler checks...cashing fee was 153 per check.

So, if you bring traveler checks bring BIG denomination check to minimize your fee. Say you brought over five $100 checks...total fee to cash all five would be 153 baht times 5 for 765 baht...but if you brought over one $500 check the fee would 153 baht times 1 for 153 baht.

[alfalfa19]

I'm getting a schwab card before my next trip. Has anyone recently used AE traveler's checks? I've heard some reports that the cashing fee is now 150 baht instead of the 30 I am accustomed to. Can anybody verify or debunk this?

It's true...Thai banks have raised their traveler checks cashing fee five fold from 30 baht plus 3 baht stamp duty to 150 baht plus 3 baht stamp duty for each and every check. This has occur over the last month or so. Please note the govt stamp duty remained 3 baht...it's just the Thai banks increasing their fee by five fold...the govt did not increase any fee. Had a friend visit from the U.S. a few weeks ago who brought over some traveler checks...cashing fee was 153 per check.

So, if you bring traveler checks bring BIG denomination check to minimize your fee. Say you brought over five $100 checks...total fee to cash all five would be 153 baht times 5 for 765 baht...but if you brought over one $500 check the fee would 153 baht times 1 for 153 baht.

Unfortunate. It looks like the best option is a swab card w/ b of a backup card, and a pocketful of hundred dollar bills.

[Pib]

I'm getting a schwab card before my next trip. Has anyone recently used AE traveler's checks? I've heard some reports that the cashing fee is now 150 baht instead of the 30 I am accustomed to. Can anybody verify or debunk this?

It's true...Thai banks have raised their traveler checks cashing fee five fold from 30 baht plus 3 baht stamp duty to 150 baht plus 3 baht stamp duty for each and every check. This has occur over the last month or so. Please note the govt stamp duty remained 3 baht...it's just the Thai banks increasing their fee by five fold...the govt did not increase any fee. Had a friend visit from the U.S. a few weeks ago who brought over some traveler checks...cashing fee was 153 per check.

So, if you bring traveler checks bring BIG denomination check to minimize your fee. Say you brought over five $100 checks...total fee to cash all five would be 153 baht times 5 for 765 baht...but if you brought over one $500 check the fee would 153 baht times 1 for 153 baht.

Unfortunate. It looks like the best option is a swab card w/ b of a backup card, and a pocketful of hundred dollar bills.

Unfortuante!!?? Thai bankers are quite happy about it.

[Pib]

Since I can usually find fees on the Bangkok Bank website pretty easy since they do have a good website (many times better than other Thai banks IMHO), here's a cut and paste showing their travelers cheque cashing fee. By the way, my visiting friend cashed her travelers cheques at a Krung Thai bank and a Krungsri bank and she was charged 153 baht per cheque at each bank. I think most of the Thai banks have transitioned to the higher fee already...I think they did the transition effective 1 Mar 14.

[alfalfa19]

Thanks Pib. That makes things pretty clear. I guess this goes for the little booths where they exchange money as well? I'm guessing they are all affiliated with some bank or other.

[Pib]

If you mean one of those little booths like at the airport, yea, because they are just little bank outlets. But if you mean some non-bank money changer I couldn't speak to that....maybe they only exchange cash/notes. Also keep in mind that traveler checks get you a higher exchange rate than notes/cash, so keep that in mind in your cost analysis. You can use this website for your analysis since it shows notes and travelers cheques exchange rates for various Thai banks : Link

And completely ignore the websites statement about just use the TT rate to determine ATM rates as it's completely bogus. You get the Visa/Mastercard exchange rate at ATMs minus any foreign transaction fee your "card-issuing" bank may charge. Of course this assumes you don't accept an ATM possible offer to use the bank's Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) exchange rate which will usually be 3 to 4% lower than the Visa/Mastercard rate....and the ATM display words regarding DCC might well be displayed in warm & fussy terms like Bank Rate or Home Rate since the bank knows many people know DCC is a ripoff rate. Banks don't even publish ATM rates. Why? Because they use the Visa/Mastercard exchange rates....and they definitely don't want to publish their DCC ATM exchange rates although a few do for credit card transactions and the rate is 3 to 4% lower. I expect the website only has that statement since they know most people probably only visit the website to find out TT Buying Rate (used for incoming wire transfers) and ATM rates....if people knew their statement was bogus the people wouldn't visit the site again and the site would lose visitor count which affects how much the site can get for ads. And don't forget the Thai bank/AEON ATM fee of Bt150 to Bt180 for foreign cards.

And if you happen to be staying close to a SuperRich money exchanger outlet, here's their website for rates. Link.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Pib

[davejones23]

There is a very simple solution. If your bank charges too much, then change banks. I'm not sure why so many people find this difficult. Some people seem to rather pay more and complain that do something about it.

[worgeordie]

These banks sure want there pound of flesh,you may pay commission

when you buy travelers cheques, then they get exchange rate difference

AND 150 bht for each one you sell.

They should be required to wear masks,the robbing bandits.

regards Worgeordie

[carken]

Why not just open an account at USAA Bank (San Antonio TX)

You can open free checking acct online with $25

you can use any address you want for home address

I used my Thai home address on my USAA acct

They will mail you your ATM Debit card to Thailand free of charge

Anytime you use USAA Bank ATM card anyplace in the world

they will not charge any ATM fee. If local bank who owns the

ATM you used charges you a fee USAA bank will rebate the entire

fee back into your acct next month. ....i.e.ATM withdrawals any

where in the world costs you nothing nada zip from USAA acct

PROBLEM SOLVED

Edited April 3, 2014 by carlekennedy

[Pib]

Why not just open an account at USAA Bank (San Antonio TX)

You can open free checking acct online with $25

you can use any address you want for home address

I used my Thai home address on my USAA acct

They will mail you your ATM Debit card to Thailand free of charge

Anytime you use USAA Bank ATM card anyplace in the world

they will not charge any ATM fee. If local bank who owns the

ATM you used charges you a fee USAA bank will rebate the entire

fee back into your acct next month. ....i.e.ATM withdrawals any

where in the world costs you nothing nada zip from USAA acct

PROBLEM SOLVED

Problem not solved. You might want to reread the USAA debit card ATM reimbursement and foreign transaction rules...the ATM fee reimbursement only applies to ATMs "within the U.S." and the debit card "has a 1% foreign transaction fee." Have you actually used the card in Thailand yet....possibly a brand new USAA bank member and just misunderstood the ATM fee structure?

P.S. I'm a USAA bank account holder also...when I first opened the account 3 or 4 years I used my USAA debit in Thailand (just to ensure it worked knowing it had a foreign transaction fee and didn't reimburse foreign ATM fees)...and sure enough I didn't initially get reimbursed (see Edit below for more info) and got charged a 1% fee (or maybe it was 0.5% at the time). Anyway, my USAA debit card now lives in my Bangkok home safe now due to its no foreign ATM fee reimbursement (or can be hard to get) and the 1% foreign transaction fee...but i do use it for an occasional online Ebay buy to keep it active.

https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/no_fee_checking_main

Edit: here is an older email regarding USAA reimbursement for foreign ATM withdrawals. Link. More brain cells are now activating and I think the USAA ATM reimbursement rules were slightly different several years back, but I think I did get reimbursed the Bt150 local ATM fee but it took several phones calls to USAA and an email via their ibanking website with an attachment of the ATM receipt showing the fee. But the 1% foreign transaction fee is enough for me not to use the card since I later on opened bank accounts at Schwab Bank and St Farm Bank which do not have a foreign transaction fee and do reimburse domestic and foreign ATM fees....Schwab provides unlimited reimbursement per month but St Farm is $10 per month I think.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Pib

[carken]

Why not just open an account at USAA Bank (San Antonio TX)

You can open free checking acct online with $25

you can use any address you want for home address

I used my Thai home address on my USAA acct

They will mail you your ATM Debit card to Thailand free of charge

Anytime you use USAA Bank ATM card anyplace in the world

they will not charge any ATM fee. If local bank who owns the

ATM you used charges you a fee USAA bank will rebate the entire

fee back into your acct next month. ....i.e.ATM withdrawals any

where in the world costs you nothing nada zip from USAA acct

PROBLEM SOLVED

Problem not solved. You might want to reread the USAA debit card ATM reimbursement and foreign transaction rules...the ATM fee reimbursement only applies to ATMs "within the U.S." and the debit card "has a 1% foreign transaction fee." Have you actually used the card in Thailand yet....possibly a brand new USAA bank member and just misunderstood the ATM fee structure?

P.S. I'm a USAA bank account holder also...when I first opened the account 3 or 4 years I used my USAA debit in Thailand (just to ensure it worked knowing it had a foreign transaction fee and didn't reimburse foreign ATM fees)...and sure enough I didn't initially get reimbursed (see Edit below for more info) and got charged a 1% fee (or maybe it was 0.5% at the time). Anyway, my USAA debit card now lives in my Bangkok home safe now due to its no foreign ATM fee reimbursement (or can be hard to get) and the 1% foreign transaction fee...but i do use it for an occasional online Ebay buy to keep it active.

https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/no_fee_checking_main

Edit: here is an older email regarding USAA reimbursement for foreign ATM withdrawals. Link. More brain cells are now activating and I think the USAA ATM reimbursement rules were slightly different several years back, but I think I did get reimbursed the Bt150 local ATM fee but it took several phones calls to USAA and an email via their ibanking website with an attachment of the ATM receipt showing the fee. But the 1% foreign transaction fee is enough for me not to use the card since I later on opened bank accounts at Schwab Bank and St Farm Bank which do not have a foreign transaction fee and do reimburse domestic and foreign ATM fees....Schwab provides unlimited reimbursement per month but St Farm is $10 per month I think.

Thanks for the input. I stand corrected. I thought every bank charged at least 1%, I'll have to check out Schwab and see about opening an account. In regard to the USAA foreign ATM reimbursement I also found out the hard way that USAA doesn't reimburse all ATM's. It has to be an ATM that electronically shows USAA on their end that there was a fee . Some banks/ATM's do some don't. It took me a couple of tries to find the right ATM's in our area that did electronically disclose to USAA the ATM fee. So of course I only use those ATM's as I really don't travel that much anymore. If my calculations are right it looks to me like USAA now charges 1.5%

Thanks again for the Schwab info

[Pib]

No, USAA's their foreign transaction fee is only 1% per their website. If you are seeing approx 1.5% in fees that other 0.5% is probably the local ATM fee like the Bt150-B180 foreign card fee charged by Thai bank/AEON ATMs. Depending on how the ATM bank transmits their fee and how USAA reflects any fee on your USAA account statement, the fee(s) could be shown separately or lumped into the withdrawal amount.

USAA is a great bank...they are one of my primarily banks, but their debit and credit cards carry foreign transaction fees so use outside of the U.S. will result in that foreign transaction fee. And if you are looking at a "credit" card for foreign use, Capital One and Pentagon Federal Credit offer no foreign transaction fee credit cards....and some of those cards have really good cash back rewards programs.

Don't worry, the executives at the banks/card companies offering no foreign transaction fee cards and reimburse debit card fees are still eating very well and making good profits for their shareholders. Get some of those no foreign transaction fee cards. Cheers

[Langsuan Man]

I will no longer give USAA Savings Bank the unqualified endorsement that I used to give them

Their SWIFT wire fees are the highest that I have come across and as already mentioned their 1% foreign transaction fee on both USAA branded Credit Cards and ATM cards is a bit much for a company that was founded to assist service members who in many cases were overseas

Recently they honored a $ 209 direct debit from my checking account by US Medicare Payments without any request or paperwork from me. Now I am supposed to obtain a Notary Public to notarize their internal form to fight the direct debit and recover the funds.

They have cancelled and re-issued my USAA Master Card 4 times now because of suspected fraud yet go ahead an take cash from my checking account because they can without any back up documentation. Fortunately I can live without the money till I get it refunded from Medicare but USAA Savings Bank is soon to be a memory in my portfolio

[Pib]

USAA's international wire fee (a.k.a., SWIFT) is only $25...that's on the low side for SWIFT fees where $30 to $50 seem to be the norm. Link

And there is no USAA sending fee for ACH transfers like for the many folks who use USAA to send money to their Bangkok Bank accounts by using the Bangkok Bank New York Branch ACH routing number. Of course you still have some Bangkok Bank fees to receive the funds sent via ACH but you have some of those fees with SWIFT transfers also.

I expect in some of the Medicare signup paperwork you authorized Medicare to make such debits if/when required, like for the periodic premium, reimbursement payments, and even when Medicare needs to pull money back due to reimbursement overpayment. Plus you would have provided your bank account info during the signup just for those purposes. I seriously doubt any U.S. bank would block a government debit being made by one of Uncle Sam's agencies like Medicare.

Regarding USAA credit card fraudelent use, I also have a USAA Mastercard credit card and about 6 months ago it had a couple of fraudulent charges made against it in Arizona...a charge in a restaurant and charge in some kind of a specialty store. Fortunately I spotted the fraudulent charges within 2 days because I just happened to log onto my USAA ibanking account and saw the charges on a Sunday afternoon...I immediately called USAA. The USAA rep asked me a few questions like are you sure it was you or someone with a supplemental card like my wife....I said no because both the wife and I are here in Bangkok, never been to Arizona, and "just no we didn't make or authorize the charges." The rep then said the card number is cancelled effective now, in approx 3 business days you will see adjustments to your account, new cards with a new account number will be mailed to you, and a form to sign saying it was not me or any of my supplemental card holders (i.e., my wife) making the charges. Three days later on Wednesday the charges were removed from my account and approximately two weeks later in separate mailings the new cards and form showed up at my APO address. The one page form didn't require any notary/additional signatures...just my signature confirming it was not me or any supplemental card holder nor anyone else I had authorized to make the charge. I signed it same day, mailed it back, and never heard anything more. Have used the new card once or twice for a couple of small Ebay buys no problem.

Hard telling how bad guys get card numbers sometimes especially when your card is locked away in a safe/rarely used. I expect a database somewhere was hacked that contains the number....maybe the USAA database...maybe the PayPal database....maybe credit card reporting agency databases...and private or govt database which may contain the number...who knows....so many different databases contain financial information on us nowdays. We frequently see news reports of some database being hacked somewhere and possibly compromising card numbers and other personal data...and I just know databases are hacked without it being known about and/or ever being reported. And then the bad guys may lay low for a while, sometimes for years, before using the hacked data like to make fraudulent online transactions, make fake cards for in-store fraudulent purchases, etc. Thank goodness the U.S. has strong consumer protection laws which favor the consumer versus the banks/merchants.

Good luck in getting things straightened out with USAA and Medicare. Personally, I consider USAA a very friendly bank to expats.

[steelepulse]

Here's what the shysters at B of A write. I love how they buried the announcement of a raise in fees via a monthly statement, not in a direct message.

"

Thank you for your inquiry dated 4/1/2014 regarding the international transaction fees. We will be happy to assist you. Please note that the International ATM fee is $5.00. This fee is assessed for each withdrawal, transfer or balance inquiry performed at a non-Bank of America ATM or non-Global ATM Alliance bank located in a foreign country. Effective 11/8/2013, Bank of America will assess an international transaction fee of 3% for all ATM transactions processed in foreign currency. You were notified of these pricing changes with an insert in your August statement. In addition, Bank of America will assess an international transaction fee for debit card transactions in foreign currency or in U.S. dollars with foreign merchants in the amount of 3% of the U.S. dollar amount of the transaction. The fees are assessed as a separate transaction fee on the posting date of the purchase or withdrawal. Our records indicate that your records have not been notified of your travel plan. To ensure the security of your account, ATM/debit cards may be automatically blocked when used outside of the United States. We request you to place a travel flag through Online Banking. To set a travel notice, sign in to online banking and go to the Help & Support page, select the Checking & Savings accounts topic and then select Use your card while traveling link and enter your trip details. If you experience any issues using the debit card, we welcome you to contact us at 1.602.597.2395 from outside of the United States. We are available 24 hours a day and 7 days a week. For additional information on Global ATM Alliance and debit card usage, please visit https://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/manage/faq-atm-fees.go. We value you as a customer and appreciate your business. If we may be of further assistance, please contact us again by e-mail. Thank you for choosing Bank of America. Sincerely,

[Pib]

Or said another way, please go to your BoA ibanking, notify us of your foreign travel, and then use your card as much as you want...make us rich and fat because 3% plus a $5 flat fee per foreign transaction will make BoA much more profitable and our executives happy & fat.

[Langsuan Man]

USAA's international wire fee (a.k.a., SWIFT) is only $25...that's on the low side for SWIFT fees where $30 to $50 seem to be the norm. Link

And there is no USAA sending fee for ACH transfers like for the many folks who use USAA to send money to their Bangkok Bank accounts by using the Bangkok Bank New York Branch ACH routing number. Of course you still have some Bangkok Bank fees to receive the funds sent via ACH but you have some of those fees with SWIFT transfers also.

I expect in some of the Medicare signup paperwork you authorized Medicare to make such debits if/when required, like for the periodic premium, reimbursement payments, and even when Medicare needs to pull money back due to reimbursement overpayment. Plus you would have provided your bank account info during the signup just for those purposes. I seriously doubt any U.S. bank would block a government debit being made by one of Uncle Sam's agencies like Medicare.

Regarding USAA credit card fraudelent use, I also have a USAA Mastercard credit card and about 6 months ago it had a couple of fraudulent charges made against it in Arizona...a charge in a restaurant and charge in some kind of a specialty store. Fortunately I spotted the fraudulent charges within 2 days because I just happened to log onto my USAA ibanking account and saw the charges on a Sunday afternoon...I immediately called USAA. The USAA rep asked me a few questions like are you sure it was you or someone with a supplemental card like my wife....I said no because both the wife and I are here in Bangkok, never been to Arizona, and "just no we didn't make or authorize the charges." The rep then said the card number is cancelled effective now, in approx 3 business days you will see adjustments to your account, new cards with a new account number will be mailed to you, and a form to sign saying it was not me or any of my supplemental card holders (i.e., my wife) making the charges. Three days later on Wednesday the charges were removed from my account and approximately two weeks later in separate mailings the new cards and form showed up at my APO address. The one page form didn't require any notary/additional signatures...just my signature confirming it was not me or any supplemental card holder nor anyone else I had authorized to make the charge. I signed it same day, mailed it back, and never heard anything more. Have used the new card once or twice for a couple of small Ebay buys no problem.

Hard telling how bad guys get card numbers sometimes especially when your card is locked away in a safe/rarely used. I expect a database somewhere was hacked that contains the number....maybe the USAA database...maybe the PayPal database....maybe credit card reporting agency databases...and private or govt database which may contain the number...who knows....so many different databases contain financial information on us nowdays. We frequently see news reports of some database being hacked somewhere and possibly compromising card numbers and other personal data...and I just know databases are hacked without it being known about and/or ever being reported. And then the bad guys may lay low for a while, sometimes for years, before using the hacked data like to make fraudulent online transactions, make fake cards for in-store fraudulent purchases, etc. Thank goodness the U.S. has strong consumer protection laws which favor the consumer versus the banks/merchants.

Good luck in getting things straightened out with USAA and Medicare. Personally, I consider USAA a very friendly bank to expats.

Not to get into a pissing contest with you Pib but you need to delve a little deeper into USAA International wire fee schedule (note the small print)

SERVICE FEES

International (Int’l) Wire Service Fee - Outgoing

........................................................................................................

$25

Total fee for sending international wire transfers is $45 ($20 Wire Transfer Fee + $25 International Wire Service Fee

source:

https://content.usaa.com/mcontent/static_assets/Media/DaD0406_BillPay0704_SvcFee0606.pdf?cacheid=1418981297?SearchRanking=3&SearchLinkPhrase=Wire%20service%20fees

And as far as Medicare is concerned it seems strange that Medicare would bill me quarterly (which I paid using a credit card) since last October and suddenly in March "find" this mysterious Direct Debit form that USAA honored, despite my account being fully paid up to the end of May

They have cancelled my USAA Master Card just for suspicious activity the they deemed to be suspicious without notifying me. Fortunately the Cap One Card that you recommended has never had that problem and is foreign fee free and is now what I use every where

The purpose of these forums is to allow everyone to cite their own experiences and how they relate to life in Thailand. USAA is not the same company that it was 45 years ago when I was a new lieutenant. And the changes have not been good. Anytime a company wants to brag about it Fortune 500 status I get leery

[steelepulse]

Or said another way, please go to your BoA ibanking, notify us of your foreign travel, and then use your card as much as you want...make us rich and fat because 3% plus a $5 flat fee per foreign transaction will make BoA much more profitable and our executives happy & fat.

That's pretty much what I told them, but not so politically correct .

[Pib]

USAA's international wire fee (a.k.a., SWIFT) is only $25...that's on the low side for SWIFT fees where $30 to $50 seem to be the norm. Link

And there is no USAA sending fee for ACH transfers like for the many folks who use USAA to send money to their Bangkok Bank accounts by using the Bangkok Bank New York Branch ACH routing number. Of course you still have some Bangkok Bank fees to receive the funds sent via ACH but you have some of those fees with SWIFT transfers also.

I expect in some of the Medicare signup paperwork you authorized Medicare to make such debits if/when required, like for the periodic premium, reimbursement payments, and even when Medicare needs to pull money back due to reimbursement overpayment. Plus you would have provided your bank account info during the signup just for those purposes. I seriously doubt any U.S. bank would block a government debit being made by one of Uncle Sam's agencies like Medicare.

Regarding USAA credit card fraudelent use, I also have a USAA Mastercard credit card and about 6 months ago it had a couple of fraudulent charges made against it in Arizona...a charge in a restaurant and charge in some kind of a specialty store. Fortunately I spotted the fraudulent charges within 2 days because I just happened to log onto my USAA ibanking account and saw the charges on a Sunday afternoon...I immediately called USAA. The USAA rep asked me a few questions like are you sure it was you or someone with a supplemental card like my wife....I said no because both the wife and I are here in Bangkok, never been to Arizona, and "just no we didn't make or authorize the charges." The rep then said the card number is cancelled effective now, in approx 3 business days you will see adjustments to your account, new cards with a new account number will be mailed to you, and a form to sign saying it was not me or any of my supplemental card holders (i.e., my wife) making the charges. Three days later on Wednesday the charges were removed from my account and approximately two weeks later in separate mailings the new cards and form showed up at my APO address. The one page form didn't require any notary/additional signatures...just my signature confirming it was not me or any supplemental card holder nor anyone else I had authorized to make the charge. I signed it same day, mailed it back, and never heard anything more. Have used the new card once or twice for a couple of small Ebay buys no problem.

Hard telling how bad guys get card numbers sometimes especially when your card is locked away in a safe/rarely used. I expect a database somewhere was hacked that contains the number....maybe the USAA database...maybe the PayPal database....maybe credit card reporting agency databases...and private or govt database which may contain the number...who knows....so many different databases contain financial information on us nowdays. We frequently see news reports of some database being hacked somewhere and possibly compromising card numbers and other personal data...and I just know databases are hacked without it being known about and/or ever being reported. And then the bad guys may lay low for a while, sometimes for years, before using the hacked data like to make fraudulent online transactions, make fake cards for in-store fraudulent purchases, etc. Thank goodness the U.S. has strong consumer protection laws which favor the consumer versus the banks/merchants.

Good luck in getting things straightened out with USAA and Medicare. Personally, I consider USAA a very friendly bank to expats.

Not to get into a pissing contest with you Pib but you need to delve a little deeper into USAA International wire fee schedule (note the small print)

SERVICE FEES

International (Int’l) Wire Service Fee - Outgoing

........................................................................................................

$25

Total fee for sending international wire transfers is $45 ($20 Wire Transfer Fee + $25 International Wire Service Fee

source:

https://content.usaa.com/mcontent/static_assets/Media/DaD0406_BillPay0704_SvcFee0606.pdf?cacheid=1418981297?SearchRanking=3&SearchLinkPhrase=Wire%20service%20fees

And as far as Medicare is concerned it seems strange that Medicare would bill me quarterly (which I paid using a credit card) since last October and suddenly in March "find" this mysterious Direct Debit form that USAA honored, despite my account being fully paid up to the end of May

They have cancelled my USAA Master Card just for suspicious activity the they deemed to be suspicious without notifying me. Fortunately the Cap One Card that you recommended has never had that problem and is foreign fee free and is now what I use every where

The purpose of these forums is to allow everyone to cite their own experiences and how they relate to life in Thailand. USAA is not the same company that it was 45 years ago when I was a new lieutenant. And the changes have not been good. Anytime a company wants to brag about it Fortune 500 status I get leery

When I say your response above about the international transfer fee and taking another look at this USAA Link I had previously provided, I thought to myself what the heck is a International Outgoing Fee "Plus" International Wire Service Fee...what is USAA really trying to say? So I searched some more on the USAA website and this Q&A page helped to clear it up for me. Below is a cut and paste of the Q&A.

Basically it says $20 for the international wire transfer "plus" $25 to hopefully cover any additional fees foreign banks may charge....but at the end of the Answer it also says the beneficiary bank may still end up charging a receiving fee which is typically 200 to 500 baht for Thai banks. Those words don't give me comfort that $45 is all I would pay for a international transfer. Internatonal wires are just pricey in comparison to ACH transfers if a person can use the ACH method. Since USAA has no ACH sending fee and if a person had a Bangkok Bank account, a person can send money a lot cheaper than via SWIFT...for example a $2,000 transfer which would cover many typical monthly govt pension payments would be approx $11.25 "including all Bangkok Bank fees.

Regarding that Medicare $209 debit to your USAA bank account and since you said your USAA credit card was cancelled and reissued 4 times (and is now cancelled I think you said), "if" you had the USAA credit card on file with Medicare for the quarterly payment maybe when Medicare charged the credit card it rejected and then Medicare just reverted to using your USAA bank account which you have on file with them. But a quarterly Medicare premium is around $315 ($104.90/month) where the $209 you mentioned only covers around 2 months. Sure the $209 debit wasn't some reimbursement being pulled back or something similar? Then again maybe if you just recently signed up for Medicare the $209 was just for a quarterly partial period. Dealing with the agencies of Uncle Sam can indeed be frustrating sometimes. I'm definitely no expert on Medicare as I'm not quite old enough to signup yet but I'm getting there...father time marches on. Even though living in Thailand full time and Medicare don't cover you outside the U.S., for me as a military retiree to maintain my Tricare health care coverage past 65 I have to signup/pay for Medicare...this allows me to continue to use Tricare until I crock.

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Can't speak to USAA 45 years ago as I've only been with them around 4 years...and so far the relationship has been good...easy bank to deal with...and they sure seem expat friendly since a lot of their members are active duty military and retired military living all over the world. But as mentioned in other posts their debit/credit cards do carry foreign transaction fees...that why my USAA debit and credit cards pretty much live in the darkness of my home safe except for the credit card being exercised occasionally for a low cost Ebay/PayPal buy. Cheers.

[JimGant]

Recently they honored a $ 209 direct debit from my checking account by US Medicare Payments without any request or paperwork from me.

Actually the authorization would be on the Medicare side, not USAA. And unless you signed up for Medicare Easy Pay, Medicare wouldn't have either your authorization for direct debit, nor the bank account info.....

Did you inadvertently sign up for Medicare Easy Pay (you would have had to provide a voided check from you USAA account)? And, on your last Medicare bill (CMS-500), which you said you paid by credit card, was there a "this is not a bill" notice at the top? If so, this would tell you that you are signed up for Medicare Easy Pay. And that you'll then be direct debited monthly. And that you'll probably end up with a situation like you currently have.

If you hadn't signed up, Medicare would have no way, as far as I can tell, to have your bank account information. But, if they *did* have your bank account info, this would have been in a package to include your authorization for them to direct debit.

Can't see how USAA has any fault in any of this.....

(Nice that you can wait to collect Social Security at a post-Medicare age. Too many years of wear and tear in my youth told me to collect 'soonest,' or probably not at all )

Oh, a recent post somewhere on this forum had someone using the domestic wire route, through Bangkok Bank NY, to his BB account in Thailand. Pretty clever, as it would cost $20 vs $45. Not sure why, however, he wouldn't want to just pay $10 and go the ACH route thru BB NY. However, there's been some discussion about problems going to 3rd party accounts via the ACH method. A domestic wire form includes all the pertinent 3rd party info, so it should assure that getting money to a 3rd party Bangkok Bank account doesn't bounce.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Re the OP's post, there was a pretty big hubub in the U.S. toward the end of last year when BofA hiked their foreign transaction fees to $5 flat fee plus 3% of the withdrawal amount.

It had previously been $5 flat plus 1%.

With the new rate, they're right up there at the peak of U.S. banks in terms of the most expensive foreign transaction fees to be found. But I believe one or two of the other mega bank companies

also have the same $5 plus 3% fee structure on foreign ATM withdrawals.

Just FWIW, this morning I was reading the disclosures about the Amex credit card that's offered as part of Fidelity's Cash Management Account. The nice feature is that Fidelity's AMEX credit card

has 2% cash back on transactions and only a 1% foreign currency fee. So effectively, you're getting a 1% return on foreign transactions, which isn't as good as some of the Cap One and other cards out there.

But they I looked at the other fees associated with the Fidelity AMEX card for things like cash advances or counter withdrawals: $10 flat fee plus 5%!!!!

And yes, all the Thai banks also are moving to the new, higher traveler's cheque fees, 153b per check. They're not all implementing the new fee at the same time, so there still may be some out there with the lower fee,

but they're all going to end up at the new higher fee eventually. IMHO, traveler's cheques are not the way to buy Thai baht in Thailand.

[lomatopo]

FWIW, Fidelity's Visa Debit card credits the 150 THB local ATM fee immediately, the credit shows as the same date as the associated withdrawal, and there are no additional charges or fees.

Also, Bank of America charges $ 3.00 (three dollars) for an ACH to BBL/NY, which is reasonable IMO (BBL/NY charges a flat fee of $10 or $20 depending on amount, and BBL/THL charges up to 500 baht in-bound), you can originate

that from Thailand on-line assuming your mobile from the U.S roams here, which T-Mobile does now - so you can receive an OTP, otherwise you need to get SafePass card.