Dead boy's family in Phuket 'mob' against Russians

[GreasyFingers]

If you want to ride a bike with a helmet, have speed radar & breathalyser units why don't you go home.

The beauty of this country is the lack of these regulations. When I started riding a bike the only riders that wore helmets were the track racers (unless you come from a cold country). Compulsory helmets were a retrograde step to satisfy the insurance companies (obviously not here though).

Freedom is what we want. We, like Thais, prefer to look after ourselves without do-gooders trying to put their will on us.

Great but if your hit and your head splits open your at least partly responsible for not having a helmet. Otherwise sure go for it as long as you accept the simple truth that by not wearing a helmet your also to blame.

Greater blame at the one who causes the accident but some blame for not wearing a helmet as its mandatory. Much head injury could be avoided.

But if you say yes i would be responsible to.. power to you and have fun driving without a helmet then its a 100% personal choice.

Never blame anyone for my own actions, no matter how stupid they are.

[Torrens54]

Traffic accidents in Thailand are not the fault of Thai's. Is everyone clear about that??

Without a doubt. Everything that goes wrong, even if the Sun no longer rises in the East and sets in the West, is the fault of either the Farang....or those "Dastardly" Burmese!

[GreasyFingers]

My sympathies to the family of "Lotus". They suffer and the criminals run free.

My sympathy goes to 'Lotus" ONLY!. A young life gone, because he was not instructed by his parents, re:the wisdom of providing "head-protection" for himself.

Like you listened to everything you were told when 16 yo

[NativeSon360]

If you want to ride a bike with a helmet, have speed radar & breathalyser units why don't you go home.

The beauty of this country is the lack of these regulations. When I started riding a bike the only riders that wore helmets were the track racers (unless you come from a cold country). Compulsory helmets were a retrograde step to satisfy the insurance companies (obviously not here though).

Freedom is what we want. We, like Thais, prefer to look after ourselves without do-gooders trying to put their will on us.

Great but if your hit and your head splits open your at least partly responsible for not having a helmet. Otherwise sure go for it as long as you accept the simple truth that by not wearing a helmet your also to blame.

Greater blame at the one who causes the accident but some blame for not wearing a helmet as its mandatory. Much head injury could be avoided.

But if you say yes i would be responsible to.. power to you and have fun driving without a helmet then its a 100% personal choice.

The reason why mandatory helmet laws were passed in the U.S., was mainly because "ham-brained" tough-guy Harley-Davidson riders were dying from fractured, "hard-headed" skull injuries. Then their families would sue the life/accidental insurance companies for compensation, regardless of the nucklehead bike rider's stupidity of not protecting his own life, was also his "freedom of choice" responsibility to himself.

"Whatever you do, don't put the blame on you. Blame it on the rain, yeah, yeah! Duh,

[GreasyFingers]

Robblok

read the post

Compulsory helmets were a retrograde step to satisfy the insurance companies (obviously not here though).

[Tboy928]

Typical! Blame someone else. The family should first realise that their son was riding a bike at odd hours of the night without a crash helmet. That in itself is irresponsible and should go down to poor guidance from the parents. Societies acceptance of a lack of helmet does not help either. Yes, the Russians should have made a police report (it did not state if they did), and stayed back to closed up the loose ends of this accident. That is what it was an accident.

Either way, even if they had stayed back the end result would still be the same. A senseless death, why? because of clear disregard for safety.

This is more of the family not having the opportunity to milk money off these Russians for the loss of their child. IMHO.

The way I understand your post the lack of a helmet caused him to be hit, what kind reasoning is this. Yes he may have survived the crash if he had a helmet on but the Russian hit him with a car, duh

The helmet could have saved him ,maybe.

But what is a motorcycle doing on the fast lane(because he hit a car that was doing a u turn ) ,in the middle of the night ? Speeding or slow driving ?

What is wrong with taking a u turn very slowly ? Nothing i think. And "imagine" some speeding motorcycle ,with no light (so you could not see him coming)hits you

and dies?Who is the guilty party her?

So the russians probl. payed the police ,kept their passports and fled the country.

These are no facts ,only what i think,ok.

IF i read this correct,, THE BIKE was driving same direction as the car,, fast probaly from behind , as they normaly do this kids, and the car did u turn, slowly as nothing else is possible,, then it is the bike drivers fault, simple as that . NO exuse for running away.. but the crazy thai kids drive as it is their last day on earth . Chalong police has bad reputation for extort money from people,, so not wounder why they left country.

[tomyumchai]

Hit and run, flee the country. This is OK with all of you?

well it does comform with the thai MO of 'hit and run' flee the scene so really, they were just doing what any other thai would have done.

[Cuban]

Passenger lists of the air-planes departing Thailand on the days they are suspected of leaving ?

If collated with a Russian reader processing the list it's a day's work - it's likely the two names will be sitting next to each other.

[Trouble]

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Typical! Blame someone else. The family should first realise that their son was riding a bike at odd hours of the night without a crash helmet. That in itself is irresponsible and should go down to poor guidance from the parents. Societies acceptance of a lack of helmet does not help either. Yes, the Russians should have made a police report (it did not state if they did), and stayed back to closed up the loose ends of this accident. That is what it was an accident.

Either way, even if they had stayed back the end result would still be the same. A senseless death, why? because of clear disregard for safety.

This is more of the family not having the opportunity to milk money off these Russians for the loss of their child. IMHO.

So, let me get it straight. According to the article, the woman did a U-turn and hit a teenager on a bike. The husband was following her in another car, they saw the kid was dead/dying and they decided to flee the scene.

In Western countries, that right there would be enough to get her in jail for fleeing the scene and for not providing assistance to the kid.

In addition, the article doesn't say anything about the kid being at fault, besides him failing to wear a helmet. And, yet, you turn that into "an opportunity for the family to milk money out of those poor Russians???" That is widely uncalled for. They're the ones who now have to live without their child while those Russians just took the first flight home.

Edit: The article actually says he was driving in the same direction than the woman. Since she was making a U-turn, the kid had the priority over her (he was driving straight on), at least based on what has been reported.

Thank you Nicolas. I never cease to be amazed at the stupid and insensitive comments made by some of the fools here on TV. Unfortunate that the boy was not wearing a helmet but irrelevant to what the Russian woman, her husband, and the witness did. Whether it is a Thai, Russian or whomever it was wrong to leave the scene of the accident and further to flee the country. Tells you something about the character of these particular Russians. Why does it seem necessary for some here to blame the boy or the family for not wearing the helmet or suggesting that the family is only interested in collecting compensation. Kind of a warped sense of righteousness by those suggesting that this is anything but a hit and run and that the three Russians are somehow less than at fault for this incident.

[mikebike]

Thought number one: In general a car will move to the left shoulder and signal a right turn to initiate a U-turn. As a bike or car behind the U-turner, travelling in the same direction, I would move to the 'fast' lane and pass the U-turner expecting them to wait until all traffic had cleared and it was safe to cross four lanes of traffic (thought I would be cautious that the U-turner didn't dart right out). This sounds like the situation at hand.

Thought number two: Discussion of mitigating factors seems presumptuous without more detail. We have no idea of the cause of death. Might not have been head injuries, who knows... so we have no idea whether a lid would have made ANY difference, it certainly MAY have. We also have no idea if either of the parties had valid driving licence(s) so we cannot presume here either. Finally we have no idea if the car initiated a proper, signalled U-turn or if the motorbike was using, or even had, a headlight, no idea if either of the parties had imbibed... no facts whatsoever to hang a presumption on here either!

Thought number three: What we DO know. Car initiated/attempted a U-turn and bike went down, rider died That's it peeps. Everything else posted here is 8 pages of total speculation.

Thought number four: Other drivers (specifically Thai nationals) doing a "runner" after an accident has no logical basis as an excuse or mitigating factor in this case. Every hit-and-run case must be judged on its own merits - it is NOT alright to say it's OK because someone else does it.

Final thought: I have sympathy for the young lad who died. I have sympathy for his family who will probably never know exactly what happened to their son that night. Also, it may surprise some TV posters, not all Thai's are money-grubbing dicks and the feeling I get is that these people would value the closure more than the compensation (this 'feeling' comes mostly from the fact that they donated the lads organs and to me that indicates more compassion than they are being given credit for).

OK - flame away blame-gamers!!

[marstons]

A 16 Y.O. wandering about at 1.A.M. No Crash Hat.If the Lad was mine id feel some resposibility.Perhaps im just Old Fashioned.RIP.

What on earth are spouting off about? He was killed by a car being driven illegally, helmet or not, the car driver caused his death.

And at 16 years old was the motor bike being driven legally as per the engine size regs. ? No helmet bike also being driven illegally.

Personally if I were the parent I would be blaming myself.

Edited April 11, 2014 by marstons

[Eloelo]

It is simply just a cowardly act to leave a dying boy on the side of the road after you have hit him with your car, a lot of posters here are saying this is Thailand Thais do it all the time etc. etc. So FXXXNG what if they do...These people were guests in the country and after killing a local boy have just fxxxed off. It is inhumane, and before anyone starts yelling foul.. what would you do and how would you feel if it was your son! Maybe it is time the rental car agencies actually recorded the details of the passports held as a security.. this should help track down the scum.

[MickGC]

Motor scooters are a cheap form transport for whole family's who cannot afford a car. Anybody can buy a helmet here for Bt 200 but its not going to protect your noggin' in an accident. A decent helmet would cost the average country worker at least 2 weeks in wages. That ain't gonna happen any time soon.

[EnigmaBurn]

Utter sadness, I agree RIP, condolences, yadda-yadda...

The response in this thread are all over the map as far as blame or just simple response the handling of the situation. I could cite just about every post I've read so far in some - most for good points - but I will just say this:

First, I agree with another commenter here that driving here does scare the shit out of me, though I think I am decent at it and have survived more than a decade of it. I have learned - just as others have commented - from Thais themselves, that if you are in an accident,it is your fault as a farang. This was explained to me in best I can describe as a Buddhist-extostentionalist view that we [farang] are here only as visitors (God knows for all the hemming and hawing we do on this site, I assume we all know this pointedly), as such in karma-like terms 'if' an accident occurs in which a farang is involved, the farang is automatically at fault, because, if the farang had not decided to come here - and been welcomed as a visitor by the Thai people - then there never would have been an accident. Thus, farang's fault unless it can be proven or obviously shown beyond even an unreasonable doubt that the other [Thai] driver was at fault.

This brings us to the next point where, now knowing we are at fault - and as another commentator notes - THAIS and FARANG have learned to RUN AWAY! I have been told numerous times almost always by Thais that if I am in an accident (especially if it involves grevious bodily harm or death) to get the &lt;deleted&gt; out of there!! And, as we know, it is what a Thai would do! They just don't like when farang do it.

And finally we already know the farang (sic. 'Russian') driver is at fault; that is a foregone conclusion as we know, the problem is only worse here due to the fact that this young driver - an A level student no doubt who tore himself from his studies in the dead of night simply to rush out and get some nozzie repellant to aid in his care efforts for elderly grandmother sadly forgetting his helmet that he ALWAYS wears as he was hurrying to insure her comfort...

Yeah. Sure, now that we understand that, we can understand the outrage better.

Edited April 11, 2014 by EnigmaBurn

[robblok]

Motor scooters are a cheap form transport for whole family's who cannot afford a car. Anybody can buy a helmet here for Bt 200 but its not going to protect your noggin' in an accident. A decent helmet would cost the average country worker at least 2 weeks in wages. That ain't gonna happen any time soon.

Real brand helmets.. a step up from index are to be had from 1600 bt and are good. They are DOT certified. That is not 2 weeks of wages but close to it. But its a one time investment.

I wear a 20k shoei helmet on the big bike and a 2k real helmet on the scooter. Just common sense.

I still feel the car driver is main responsible but a lot could probably have been prevented if the bike driver wore a helmet.

As for those who say the bike driver is at fault.. NO of course not they did a U turn and that is a special movement and then everyone can go before you. You have no right of way so if someone hits you... your to blame.

[Smiles]

A 16 Y.O. wandering about at 1.A.M. No Crash Hat.If the Lad was mine id feel some resposibility.Perhaps im just Old Fashioned.RIP.

Did you read that he went out to buy some insect repellent?

He is already supporting his family in some ways. You cannot fault someone on a bike out buying something at 1.00am.

[sirchai]

A 16 Y.O. wandering about at 1.A.M. No Crash Hat.If the Lad was mine id feel some resposibility.Perhaps im just Old Fashioned.RIP.

What on earth are spouting off about? He was killed by a car being driven illegally, helmet or not, the car driver caused his death.

And at 16 years old was the motor bike being driven legally as per the engine size regs. ? No helmet bike also being driven illegally.

Personally if I were the parent I would be blaming myself.

What the heck is wrong with so many people here? The boy was killed, old enough to have a license, but wasn't wearing a helmet?

My first big bike was a Honda 750 four in 1977. We didn't wear helmets, as the law didn't t yet exist and we loved it to speed with 180 km/h.

How can you blame the parents? This boy was killed with a weapon in form of a car. Full stop. Please blame yourself, not others. Thanks.

[Alwyn]

When I lived in Rawai some 4 year or so ago I was living bang on the main road from the Chalong roundabout towards Rawai beach. About 3 in the morning we heard this almighty crash out the front. A Russian lady had hit a car so hard she moved it maybe 50 meters or so. She was driving toward Chalong on the wrong side of the road and hit a parked car. She was stumbling around the place, at first i thought she was hurt but she was pissed out of her mind. 2 minutes later a Fortuna full of Russian chaps pulled up and bundled her into their car while another collected a half dozen or more bottles of spirits from the written of truck she'd been driving. Then they were gone. All of the above comments about "shoe on the other foot" and "parents are responsible as he didn't have a helmet on" etc maybe correct but this is a real problem - not just Russians but a lot of foreigners believe it's okay to drive around mindlessly drunk. Shame the police aren't up to speed and bit more on the ball.

[happysanook]

When in Rome....

And...

Would the mob had formed if a Thai had killed the poor kid? No way.

[Eloelo]

Hit and run, flee the country. This is OK with all of you?

well it does comform with the thai MO of 'hit and run' flee the scene so really, they were just doing what any other thai would have done.

except they were not thai or is this when in rome?and stereotyping what all thais do in the case of an accident is misguided as there are some thais who do the right thing!

[LivinginKata]

Time to remind members of the forum rules ..

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11) Do not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

A large number of posts are being removed under member's registration agreement to conform with these rules when posting.

[Neeranam]

A 16 Y.O. wandering about at 1.A.M. No Crash Hat.If the Lad was mine id feel some resposibility.Perhaps im just Old Fashioned.RIP.

So it's the dead boy's parents fault? Ridiculous thing to say.

The Russians did the right thing in driving away from the scene. I would do the same, However I would then go to the police station to report it.

[Seelow]

Can not disagree about the BB comment but they were only following well established Thai traditions.

Hit and run seems ingrained in Thai culture and is so common it's often not even reported.

How many Thais have a valid driving license, legally obtained, not bought? How many, any nationality, bother to obey Thai law regarding helmets?

As the saying goes, When in Rome..........

As has been stated before the foreignor appears to have no rights or rule of law on his side and as such is forced to take the law into his own hands.

It is disgusting, but until this country cleans up it's act, this behavior will be never ending.

[NamKangMan]

I think the BiB are getting soft.

The Russian girl hosting the party, Anna, should have been arrested for working illegally (party hosting) and therefore the blame of the accident put on her. She remains in gaol until she pays compensation to the family and is then deported.

Case closed.

Edited April 11, 2014 by NamKangMan

[atyclb]

If you want to ride a bike with a helmet, have speed radar & breathalyser units why don't you go home.

The beauty of this country is the lack of these regulations. When I started riding a bike the only riders that wore helmets were the track racers (unless you come from a cold country). Compulsory helmets were a retrograde step to satisfy the insurance companies (obviously not here though).

Freedom is what we want. We, like Thais, prefer to look after ourselves without do-gooders trying to put their will on us.

Precisely. don't forget to complete the organ donor card please even if the liver cannot be used.

[robblok]

A 16 Y.O. wandering about at 1.A.M. No Crash Hat.If the Lad was mine id feel some resposibility.Perhaps im just Old Fashioned.RIP.

What on earth are spouting off about? He was killed by a car being driven illegally, helmet or not, the car driver caused his death.

And at 16 years old was the motor bike being driven legally as per the engine size regs. ? No helmet bike also being driven illegally.

Personally if I were the parent I would be blaming myself.

What the heck is wrong with so many people here? The boy was killed, old enough to have a license, but wasn't wearing a helmet?

My first big bike was a Honda 750 four in 1977. We didn't wear helmets, as the law didn't t yet exist and we loved it to speed with 180 km/h.

How can you blame the parents? This boy was killed with a weapon in form of a car. Full stop. Please blame yourself, not others. Thanks.

Its not what is wrong with people, but there is partial blame for not wearing a helmet is he died from a head injury. The Russians are the main to blame and leaving the scene is unforgivable.

I drive a bike and helmets are required the scull is not that strong.

That you drove 180 without a helmet is all nice and fine but does not change the fact that helmets protect and are mandatory here.

I am scared a lot when i drive the car that I might hit one of those helmet less motorcycles doing crazy stuff. Good chance they are dead at that point and I will be in so much more trouble as if he had worn a helmet. So yea i feel stuff like that should be taken into account. Sure look who is to blame for the accident but also look who is to blame for not protecting himself with a helmet and making matters worse. Its unfair to put that part of the blame onto the car driver too. So I look at this from multiple sides as a car driver and as a bike driver.

I have taken out a high insurance on both my bike and car with bail-bond because just such a thing. Plus I drive around with a desk cam to help my case. Why because the police is not always partial. But I would NEVER leave the scene. That is just criminal.

[chrissables]

Maybe just maybe he not died if wearing helmet, but those Russian have to go to jail anyway.

Maybe if he stayed bed too. Never venture out of the house without full body armor, that's how to live.....NOT!

You think is it same thing when you drive motorbike without helmet or go out without full body armor? congratulation for you and just drive without helmet don't worry Buddha will protect you!

Helmet or not, body armor or not, was not the cause of the accident!

[chrissables]

Maybe just maybe he not died if wearing helmet, but those Russian have to go to jail anyway.

Maybe if he stayed bed too. Never venture out of the house without full body armor, that's how to live.....NOT!

You think is it same thing when you drive motorbike without helmet or go out without full body armor? congratulation for you and just drive without helmet don't worry Buddha will protect you!

I think I finally found who he acted so aggressive combative against the people who mentioned helmets. He is one of the idiots who refuse to wear one and then blame others 100% if he dies of head injury instead of taking some of the blame himself because he was so stupid not to wear one. (not that he could blame himself dead.. but as a matter of speech)

Actually i always wear a helmet. But find idiots who think wearing one will stop an accident or MAYBE reduce injury smug and uneducated. The only country i know of who has done proper studies of the advantages or otherwise of helmet use is America, About half of the states don't enforce wearing them because they have not proven to save lives.So my view regarding wearing them remains, personal choice. By not wearing a helmet i am not causing accident or harming anyone, so leave me the f##k alone please.

[duanebigsby]

If you want to ride a bike with a helmet, have speed radar & breathalyser units why don't you go home.

The beauty of this country is the lack of these regulations. When I started riding a bike the only riders that wore helmets were the track racers (unless you come from a cold country). Compulsory helmets were a retrograde step to satisfy the insurance companies (obviously not here though).

Freedom is what we want. We, like Thais, prefer to look after ourselves without do-gooders trying to put their will on us.

There is no lack of regulations regarding helmets, speed and drunk driving.

Helmets are mandatory, there are speed limits, and drunk driving is against the law in Thailand.

You want the freedom to drive drunk? I want the freedom not to be killed by you.

Compulsory helmet laws in many countries were enacted to offset gov't funded health care systems.

Why should I pay higher taxes because you are too dumb to put a crash hat on?

[BwindiBoy]

A 16 Y.O. wandering about at 1.A.M. No Crash Hat.If the Lad was mine id feel some resposibility.Perhaps im just Old Fashioned.RIP.

What on earth are spouting off about? He was killed by a car being driven illegally, helmet or not, the car driver caused his death.

Or maybe she had her right turn indicator on and he ran into the back of her either because he was under the influence or maybe he didn't know what the indicator light meant as he had never used one himself.

Or maybe she was drunk after a party and didn't see him.

Either way the Russians new it would be farangs fault and was going to cost them a lot of money

Yes, this (first line) is almost exactly what happened to our hotel owner in Chiang Mai in 2009 - he indicated with his indicators AND his arm that he was doing a legal u-turn and then, at the very last moment, a young Thai tears up the outside just as our driver starts his turn. Bang! Into the driver's door. Fortunately, the lad on the moped was wearing a helmet and was relatively OK. Our (German) driver was having to defend himself and had to pay for the damage to his own car; he was resigned to it, being the farang.

This is tragic for the Thai who died. Also tragic for the comments quoted as coming from the policeman.