Another populist setback may be looming

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL
Another populist setback may be looming
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Lagging tax refunds for first-time car buyers puts government policies under the spotlight again

Thailand's low-income citizens have their burden and now it's the turn of the middle-class to bear the negative impact of political populism. Reports last week suggested that the Excise Department is running low on money to finance tax refunds for the "first-car" scheme. This is a different situation entirely from the government failing to pay farmers for their rice, of course, but it's another bad consequence of populism all the same.

The car buyers are in a better situation all round than the rice farmers. Owning a car is hardly a matter of life and death. Losing out on the tax refund you expected after buying a car won't cripple anyone financially. It is another thing entirely to be promised the best price for your farm produce, on which your family depends for daily sustenance, and then not get it. Regardless, even if the car buyers deserve less "sympathy", the government initiative that drew them into this monetary arrangement is still appalling.

The two populist programmes share several aspects in common. Financial and social analysts warned the government against both due to fiscal risk for the economy and the participants and the adverse effects of pampering the populace. The government insisted nevertheless that its intention was to help the less fortunate and the criticism was shunted aside.

Populism comes with a hefty price tag, however. While the rice price-pledging scheme has wreaked havoc on government coffers, farmers' budgets and Thai competitiveness in global exports, the first-car tax programme has rattled the domestic economy by limiting consumer spending power to just the auto sector. That the Excise Department is running out of money to refund car buyers is arguably a "lesser" impact of this controversial scheme.

The Saha Group, a consumer-product giant, has repeatedly complained that the tax-refund policy tempts people to forego other spending priorities in favour of buying a car, whether they really need one or not. Spending in sectors other than automobiles dropped significantly last year because, having made a major purchase, consumers avoided further outlays. And their car payments were at least Bt4,000 a month, another reason to scrimp in other areas.

The huge demand for vehicles resulting from the first-car policy was an "artificial demand", economists have said. Meanwhile many who claimed to be "first-car" buyers already owned cars but signed up with relatives' or friends' names.

The government insists that the rice scheme was necessary because the farmers were suffering due to low market prices, but what was the excuse for the first-car scheme? None of the reasons given were substantial. Making the first-car tax refund even more doubtful are figures showing that a large proportion of buyers live in cities where traffic and pollution are becoming more and more of a problem.

To say that the caretaker Yingluck Shinawatra administration has been expert in introducing populist measures flies in the face of the facts, which reveal that most of its populist policies have bred more trouble than social benefit. Apart from the rice and first-car programmes, the distribution of free computer tablets to schoolchildren has hit a snag in contractual problems with the tablets' Chinese makers. The Bt300 daily minimum wage drew criticism when the government first pushed for it, but this policy has been overshadowed by the controversies involving the other schemes.

Like other issues, the Pheu Thai Party's populist schemes have been sucked into the ongoing political maelstrom. Debate on their merits has been clouded by extreme prejudice. The day Thailand starts deliberating the pros and cons of populist policies without political bias may be the day we see light at the end of the tunnel.

-- The Nation 2014-04-12

[PatOngo]

Another populist setback may be looming

The huge demand for vehicles resulting from the first-car policy was an "artificial demand", economists have said. Meanwhile many who claimed to be "first-car" buyers already owned cars but signed up with relatives' or friends' names.

Owwwwwwwwwwwww!

[Melyn]

Not to mention the horrendous traffic and polution

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kurnell]

I know where they can find money to pay for the rice pledge and car refunds.

[Fryslan boppe]

"...to bear the negative impact of political populism"

It is one thing to discuss the pro's and con's of Govt. programs, another to advance political theory while doing so.

Left unchallenged, such negating of political theory and underlying principles, could be viewed as gospel....Left unchallenged, the self-serving motives would be obscured....Puts into context, over-the-top denigration of such programs by the PAD-Dem's, and why you see them seeking out each and every possible program hitch, and magnifying them.

The Ammart is opposed to what the above quote calls "political populism"...Let's be sure we know what that means.....

Populism refers to "programs for ordinary people"...So in the context of this quote, the statement actually says that "Political programs for ordinary people is a bad thing"

And that is the mantra of BKK. centered political circles, who decry what they see as national financial wherewithal being wasted on ordinary folks not of their station.

Does that give you a clue as to their electoral futility? Does that give you an inkling about all the furor and noise they generate against Govt. programs designed to 'spread the wealth'.

It is why the Lumpini crowd wants to establish a Civilian Dictatorship of their own kind, to put an end to such programming which does not cater to them exclusively....

The only way they can do that is non-electorally.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Fryslan boppe

[Mentors]

"...to bear the negative impact of political populism"

It is one thing to discuss the pro's and con's of Govt. programs, another to advance political theory while doing so.

Left unchallenged, such negating of political theory and underlying principles, could be viewed as gospel.

The Ammart is opposed to what the above quote calls "political populism"...Let's be sure we know what that means.....

Populism refers to "programs for ordinary people"...So in the context of this quote, the statement actually says that "Political programs for ordinary people is a bad thing"

And that is the mantra of BKK. centered political circles, who decry what they see as national financial wherewithal being wasted on ordinary folks not of their station.

Does that give you a clue as to their electoral futility? Does that give you an inkling about all the furor and noise they generate against Govt. programs designed to 'spread the wealth'.

It is why the Lumpini crowd wants to establish a Civilian Dictatorship of their own kind, to put an end to such programming which does not cater to them exclusively....

The only way they can do that is non-electorally.

Maybe in nearer future the very educated Bangkokians must grow rice, fruits and vegetable on their fancy 1sqm balkonies or on rooftops...

[rabas]

Not to mention the horrendous traffic and polution

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In Bangkok this is not a problem, since no more cars will fit onto the small amount of available roadway.

[moe666]

"...to bear the negative impact of political populism"

It is one thing to discuss the pro's and con's of Govt. programs, another to advance political theory while doing so.

Left unchallenged, such negating of political theory and underlying principles, could be viewed as gospel.

The Ammart is opposed to what the above quote calls "political populism"...Let's be sure we know what that means.....

Populism refers to "programs for ordinary people"...So in the context of this quote, the statement actually says that "Political programs for ordinary people is a bad thing"

And that is the mantra of BKK. centered political circles, who decry what they see as national financial wherewithal being wasted on ordinary folks not of their station.

Does that give you a clue as to their electoral futility? Does that give you an inkling about all the furor and noise they generate against Govt. programs designed to 'spread the wealth'.

It is why the Lumpini crowd wants to establish a Civilian Dictatorship of their own kind, to put an end to such programming which does not cater to them exclusively....

The only way they can do that is non-electorally.

What is your day job, clown in the circus. Neither the car scheme nor the rice scam were for the ordinary people as they cannot afford a car and do not own the storage or millers mills and have a inside track with the present government to be designated a trader of choice.

[Thaddeus]

Populism refers to "programs for ordinary people"...So in the context of this quote, the statement actually says that "Political programs for ordinary people is a bad thing"

When the promises offer hope, but actually deliver despair, please explain how that isn't a 'bad thing'

Farmers have committed suicide already, do first time car buyers have to start doing the same thing before you come to realise how foul your messages are?

[Bluespunk]

"The car buyers are in a better situation all round than the rice farmers. Owning a car is hardly a matter of life and death. Losing out on the tax refund you expected after buying a car won't cripple anyone financially. It is another thing entirely to be promised the best price for your farm produce, on which your family depends for daily sustenance, and then not get it. Regardless, even if the car buyers deserve less "sympathy", the government initiative that drew them into this monetary arrangement is still appalling"

I agree with sentiment in this quote, however, the point is both policies were ill conceived, poorly thought out, inept examples of criminally stupid economic thinking. PT has been a disaster for Thailand. If (ok, more likely, when) they win the next election they need to seriously rethink their approach to both how they rule (concensus politics, please) and the policies they implement (more thought, less pie in the sky populist stupidity) or the current mess will start all over again.

[virtualtraveller]

It's the financial institutions that will be effected, not the individual. These car purchases are all tied up in financing, when the rebate cheque comes it goes straight to the bank. Still, there are a lot of people who bought cars but now can't really afford them but cannot sell them, so give them up, having lost a lot of money on a liability. Cars are liabilities, not assets, that's the saddest thing about this program. It simply caused the working class to consume rather than save.

[noitom]

In Thailand "populism" is a euphemism or code word for any initiative that doesn't have a built in edge for the establishment elite, but rather favors the majority of ordinary Thais that do not have "privilege."

[Melyn]

"...to bear the negative impact of political populism"

It is one thing to discuss the pro's and con's of Govt. programs, another to advance political theory while doing so.

Left unchallenged, such negating of political theory and underlying principles, could be viewed as gospel....Left unchallenged, the self-serving motives would be obscured....Puts into context, over-the-top denigration of such programs by the PAD-Dem's, and why you see them seeking out each and every possible program hitch, and magnifying them.

The Ammart is opposed to what the above quote calls "political populism"...Let's be sure we know what that means.....

Populism refers to "programs for ordinary people"...So in the context of this quote, the statement actually says that "Political programs for ordinary people is a bad thing"

And that is the mantra of BKK. centered political circles, who decry what they see as national financial wherewithal being wasted on ordinary folks not of their station.

Does that give you a clue as to their electoral futility? Does that give you an inkling about all the furor and noise they generate against Govt. programs designed to 'spread the wealth'.

It is why the Lumpini crowd wants to establish a Civilian Dictatorship of their own kind, to put an end to such programming which does not cater to them exclusively....

The only way they can do that is non-electorally.

Furor?

Haha!!!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[djjamie]

Populism destroys prosperity. In 2 years populism destroyed Thailand's ranking in the global rice market.

When you make people accustomed to populism, they always demand more of it. Populism, when unleashed, doesn't go away and often eats its own master.

This OP highlights another example of this cancer.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Rimmer
Fonts

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"...to bear the negative impact of political populism"

It is one thing to discuss the pro's and con's of Govt. programs, another to advance political theory while doing so.

Left unchallenged, such negating of political theory and underlying principles, could be viewed as gospel....Left unchallenged, the self-serving motives would be obscured....Puts into context, over-the-top denigration of such programs by the PAD-Dem's, and why you see them seeking out each and every possible program hitch, and magnifying them.

The Ammart is opposed to what the above quote calls "political populism"...Let's be sure we know what that means.....

Populism refers to "programs for ordinary people"...So in the context of this quote, the statement actually says that "Political programs for ordinary people is a bad thing"

And that is the mantra of BKK. centered political circles, who decry what they see as national financial wherewithal being wasted on ordinary folks not of their station.

Does that give you a clue as to their electoral futility? Does that give you an inkling about all the furor and noise they generate against Govt. programs designed to 'spread the wealth'.

It is why the Lumpini crowd wants to establish a Civilian Dictatorship of their own kind, to put an end to such programming which does not cater to them exclusively....

The only way they can do that is non-electorally.

Blame the ammart, blame the ammart, blame the ammart...

Time to get a new playbook.

Edited April 12, 2014 by scorecard

[thesetat2013]

This artcle is a crock and is BS. The money that was promised as a rebate to 1st time car buyers is in fact actually paid by the car manufacturers in taxes. That money is sent to the finance ministry until the excise dept request it sent to the individual who putchased the car. So basically all it is is a rebate from the manufacturer.

So what happened to this money?

By the way, the details for all mentioned above were told to my wife by the excise dept so it is true.

If the car manufacturers sent the rebates to the finance ministry (which is most certain) then how can they not have the money to pay these car buyers?

By the way, this is not about rich and elite and ammart as that previous poster always claims. This rebate was intended to help those who never owned a car obtain one. It put the nee owner in serious debt. In some cases money was borrowed simply because of the rebate promised and people are counting on that money to reducr their debts which were incurred to purchase the car. For this article to say its not that important is irresponsible. But even more so it is filled with holes as to what happened to the money that the manuafacturer sent to the finance ministry. The excise dept only job was to qualify participants and forward payment amounts due to the finance ministry.

Is this another example of corruption and laying blame?

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[djjamie]

In Thailand "populism" is a euphemism or code word for any initiative that takes huge amounts of money from the tax payer and relocates it somewhere that the government refuse to tell anyone because as Kittiratt says "it is confidential and not available to the public" While he says this the benefactors of the populism are not getting paid or refunded for the populist policies they voted for.

Rice scheme - Payments stopped

​First car buyers - Refunds stopped

So we are expected to trust a govt that has no money for the populist policies and when the voters ask where the money has gone the govt say "we can't tell you"

Mark my words after the results of the 2014 election the majority are well aware of this corrosive cancer perpetrated by the PTP and they (didn't) vote accordingly and the ones that did, 7 million turned there backs on the PTP when compared to 2011.

Populism kills it's master. I said this 2011. I stand by it today. I will stand by it in 50 years. Academia will stand by it forever.

It is written and discussed by academics. It has been proven in history to destroy. Academia and "learning from the past" are not PTP strong points and are to be demonized at all costs, thus one can understand why the refuse to believe this FACT.

Edited April 12, 2014 by djjamie

[rametindallas]

Another populist setback may be looming

The huge demand for vehicles resulting from the first-car policy was an "artificial demand", economists have said. Meanwhile many who claimed to be "first-car" buyers already owned cars but signed up with relatives' or friends' names.

Owwwwwwwwwwwww!

I am shocked that Thai people would 'scam' the system; but I am Farang. How naive is the government, who is Thai, to not think the Rice Support Scheme and the First Car Buyers's Scheme would not be 'scammed'.

[bkkbarbara]

More effort on making promises than keeping them. A cruel wake-up call for those who believed "the check's in the mail" and spent accordingly.

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[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Not to mention the horrendous traffic and polution

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

We were only talking about this yesterday, I suggested the good CTPM Yingluck should have gone for gas rebate fitted to cars, much more sensible idea and pollution friendly than Gasoline, probably not a vote buyer though.

[geriatrickid]

Populism destroys prosperity. In 2 years populism destroyed Thailand's ranking in the global rice market.

When you make people accustomed to populism, they always demand more of it. Populism, when unleashed, doesn't go away and often eats its own master.

This OP highlights another example of this cancer.

Ignorance destroys an attempt at an intelligent discussion. Vietnam and India had bumper rice harvests. India poured large amounts into its rice subsidy program and engaged in trade deals that other countries who respect trade sanctions would not enter into. India dumped rice on the market. Don't let those inconvenient facts get in your way.

The automobile incentive was intended to boost the Thai automotive sector when it most needed support. Although not as large as the US and Canadian government bailouts of their auto industries, it provided a much needed boost to the auto manufacturers who had suffered from the Thai floods. Thailand auto sector is a major source of revenue for the government and skilled jobs for its workers. The incentives were welcomed by the business sector and were considered helpful.

[geriatrickid]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Not to mention the horrendous traffic and polution

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

We were only talking about this yesterday, I suggested the good CTPM Yingluck should have gone for gas rebate fitted to cars, much more sensible idea and pollution friendly than Gasoline, probably not a vote buyer though.

Gas is already indirectly subsidized.

[Ricardo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"...to bear the negative impact of political populism"

It is one thing to discuss the pro's and con's of Govt. programs, another to advance political theory while doing so.

Left unchallenged, such negating of political theory and underlying principles, could be viewed as gospel....Left unchallenged, the self-serving motives would be obscured....Puts into context, over-the-top denigration of such programs by the PAD-Dem's, and why you see them seeking out each and every possible program hitch, and magnifying them.

The Ammart is opposed to what the above quote calls "political populism"...Let's be sure we know what that means.....

Populism refers to "programs for ordinary people"...So in the context of this quote, the statement actually says that "Political programs for ordinary people is a bad thing"

And that is the mantra of BKK. centered political circles, who decry what they see as national financial wherewithal being wasted on ordinary folks not of their station.

Does that give you a clue as to their electoral futility? Does that give you an inkling about all the furor and noise they generate against Govt. programs designed to 'spread the wealth'.

It is why the Lumpini crowd wants to establish a Civilian Dictatorship of their own kind, to put an end to such programming which does not cater to them exclusively....

The only way they can do that is non-electorally.

Blame the ammart, blame the ammart, blame the ammart...

Time to get a new playbook.

Correct.

Once again the PTP-led government has shown itself to be incapable of carrying out its stated-policies, that has everything to do with their own lack-of-competence & failure-to-deliver, not some malign 'third hand' sabotage.

When the payments due under-the-scheme fail to arrive, people will cut back on other spending, which worsens the already-poor prospects for economic-growth this year.

Yay for Red Economic-Management !

The Big Boss must be fuming, seeing how repeated cabinet-reshuffles have failed, or have produced people apparently-unable to do as he tells them ? Or could it possibly be that the orders were wrong, and he's not the great business & economic-thinker, that they all thought he was ?

Edited April 12, 2014 by Ricardo

[rametindallas]

Not to mention the horrendous traffic and polution

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

This Scheme was designed to hurt Bangkokians. The well-off in Bangkok may own cars but they can't use them now as the traffic is so bad. Clever. The rural folk must be having a good laugh at how PTP made the city people suffer.

[djjamie]

Populism destroys prosperity. In 2 years populism destroyed Thailand's ranking in the global rice market.

When you make people accustomed to populism, they always demand more of it. Populism, when unleashed, doesn't go away and often eats its own master.

This OP highlights another example of this cancer.

Ignorance destroys an attempt at an intelligent discussion. Vietnam and India had bumper rice harvests. India poured large amounts into its rice subsidy program and engaged in trade deals that other countries who respect trade sanctions would not enter into. India dumped rice on the market. Don't let those inconvenient facts get in your way.

The automobile incentive was intended to boost the Thai automotive sector when it most needed support. Although not as large as the US and Canadian government bailouts of their auto industries, it provided a much needed boost to the auto manufacturers who had suffered from the Thai floods. Thailand auto sector is a major source of revenue for the government and skilled jobs for its workers. The incentives were welcomed by the business sector and were considered helpful.

Ignorance destroys an attempt at an intelligent discussion.

Condescension ensures no rebuttal. Pity because your argument has more holes that swiss cheese.

Well done. Can't help yourself can you.

[CWMcMurray]

There are ways to make populist policies that actually help the poor and not be rampant with corruption

The car scheme while not perfect, is at least a bit better than the Rice program...

If run like the rice scheme.. The government would have bought 1million cars from manufacturers with vouchers with 0% interest on the promise that they will later pay the manufacturers

The government would then take all the cars and store them in huge parking lots paying storage costs and letting the cars deteriorate while waiting to be sold to customers at a lower cost than the government promised to pay the manufacturers

But at the same time, not all the normal dealerships would be allowed to sell cars to the public

Only a few dealerships that can be put on this short list can actually sell the cars

Then while the next part would never actually happen in the car market... Just need to put it in to link up with the rice program analogy ...

Then the import tax on cars is reduced... So customers in Thailand can now by the same car that The Thai government has been keeping in parking lots deteriorating for the last year from the manufacturer directly at any dealership country wide for cheaper than the price than what the Thai gov is selling at only a few select dealerships

How could this be anything other than a success?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thaddeus]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Not to mention the horrendous traffic and polution

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

We were only talking about this yesterday, I suggested the good CTPM Yingluck should have gone for gas rebate fitted to cars, much more sensible idea and pollution friendly than Gasoline, probably not a vote buyer though.

"probably not a vote buyer though"

Anyone got a Hi-Liter pen?

[Melyn]

This artcle is a crock and is BS. The money that was promised as a rebate to 1st time car buyers is in fact actually paid by the car manufacturers in taxes. That money is sent to the finance ministry until the excise dept request it sent to the individual who putchased the car. So basically all it is is a rebate from the manufacturer.

So what happened to this money?

By the way, the details for all mentioned above were told to my wife by the excise dept so it is true.

If the car manufacturers sent the rebates to the finance ministry (which is most certain) then how can they not have the money to pay these car buyers?

By the way, this is not about rich and elite and ammart as that previous poster always claims. This rebate was intended to help those who never owned a car obtain one. It put the nee owner in serious debt. In some cases money was borrowed simply because of the rebate promised and people are counting on that money to reducr their debts which were incurred to purchase the car. For this article to say its not that important is irresponsible. But even more so it is filled with holes as to what happened to the money that the manuafacturer sent to the finance ministry. The excise dept only job was to qualify participants and forward payment amounts due to the finance ministry.

Is this another example of corruption and laying blame?

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I would add that part of the process in getting a proper number plate for the car is that the tax has been paid in full to the government.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Melyn]

Not to mention the horrendous traffic and polution

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

This Scheme was designed to hurt Bangkokians. The well-off in Bangkok may own cars but they can't use them now as the traffic is so bad. Clever. The rural folk must be having a good laugh at how PTP made the city people suffer.

Haha!

Its true that around half of those cars ended up in Bangkok where the roads are already both insufficient and poorly managed from a traffic perspective.

The thing is that at this time of year we also see how the additional cars put the entire nation's road system to a halt.

Wife drove up to Udon yesterday. 14 hours!!!!!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[djjamie]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"...to bear the negative impact of political populism"

It is one thing to discuss the pro's and con's of Govt. programs, another to advance political theory while doing so.

Left unchallenged, such negating of political theory and underlying principles, could be viewed as gospel....Left unchallenged, the self-serving motives would be obscured....Puts into context, over-the-top denigration of such programs by the PAD-Dem's, and why you see them seeking out each and every possible program hitch, and magnifying them.

The Ammart is opposed to what the above quote calls "political populism"...Let's be sure we know what that means.....

Populism refers to "programs for ordinary people"...So in the context of this quote, the statement actually says that "Political programs for ordinary people is a bad thing"

And that is the mantra of BKK. centered political circles, who decry what they see as national financial wherewithal being wasted on ordinary folks not of their station.

Does that give you a clue as to their electoral futility? Does that give you an inkling about all the furor and noise they generate against Govt. programs designed to 'spread the wealth'.

It is why the Lumpini crowd wants to establish a Civilian Dictatorship of their own kind, to put an end to such programming which does not cater to them exclusively....

The only way they can do that is non-electorally.

Blame the ammart, blame the ammart, blame the ammart...

Time to get a new playbook.

Like the PTP, he does not give intelligent answers, but he does give answers that the UDD want to hear.

As a 1940's leader said. "I need the jews to scapegoat as without them we would have no one to blame for all the problems in his country"

Today without the ammart, the PDRC, the DEM's, the courts, the military, the medical association, the civil servants, the labor unions, the Green Politics group, the Thai Constitution Protection Association, the Thai press then the PTP would have no one to blame, but themselves.

They need the ammart to survive more than a human needs oxygen to survive. Just as without oxygen a human will die the PTP would die without the ammart to blame all their own faults on. They would then be seen for what they truly are. A weak, incompetent, reprehensible entity with no morales that support only 1 of 15 principles of democracy to achieve their goal of complete domination.

So when you read the above it is not because it really is the ammarts fault. It is because they use the ammart as a convenience for their own faults. In a way he is thanking the ammart for being there and he does respect them for the convenience that it affords his arguments.

Edited April 12, 2014 by djjamie