Claiming tax refund - work ended what to do?

[Tomtomtom69]

Hi,

I worked for a Thai company for only 2 months and was on a non-B, which I entered on back in October, about 7 weeks before starting work. In early December the non-B was converted to an extension of stay valid until late January 2015. Unfortunately, due to the economic downturn I was let go from my position effective early February of this year. I cancelled my non-B and work permit at that time, left for Cambodia for a few days to run some errands then came back. In the meantime I'm on a double entry TR while interviewing for new positions, one of which I am close to obtaining.

However, I noticed that from my January payslip about 4500 Baht was deducted in taxes (including 600 Baht for social security so I guess I'm owed only 3900 Baht). According to the Thai tax schedule, I shouldn't be eligible for any taxes on my income made over the 2 month December-January period (keeping in mind also that prior to December and since February my income has come only from abroad - in the past year I've only worked in Thailand for 2 months). When I went to cancel my visa, I didn't have any tax documents for January and immigration were a bit upset about that. I however insisted that I am not coming back to immigration a second time, for starters, I don't want to have anything to do with that company anymore and it would be a great inconvenience. So I showed them my bank book, which showed a minimum salary for January higher than the threshold. The reason why immigration commented on this at all is because in December I only started working on the 11th, therefore my salary was adjusted for the time I worked and thus appeared to be less than the minimum required for my nationality to obtain an extension of stay (min. is 50,000 Baht), because they only started paying me from the 11th (obviously they weren't going to pay me for the first 10 days of December during which I hadn't started working yet).

In the end, immigration cancelled my visa extension satisfied that I made the minimum required per month and I had until the next day to leave (based on the company documents) although I chose to leave that same day having already booked a hotel in Phnom Penh. I was previously misinformed on Thai Visa that you have to leave on the same day that you come in for your visa cancellation. This is NOT true. You only have to leave the same day as the EFFECTIVE DATE of termination stated on your letter. Therefore, if the effective date is March 1, you could come in on February 24th and will have until March 1st to leave (of course a 7-day extension is also available for 1900 Baht but that's a waste of money when you can just get up and leave quickly for say Cambodia, a mere 3 hour drive away from Bangkok and come back immediately for a 15-30 day (90 days if you're Brazilian, Korean, Peruvian...) stamp depending on your nationality).

I have made photocopies of all the forms and documents that my company gave me for reference purposes. However, what nobody seems to talk about here is what does one do when your work ends to claim back taxes owed back to the taxpayer? On the December tax form, there is no tax file number or similar next to my name so I don't know how the tax department would process my tax return without this.

What do I need to do to claim my tax back?

[digitalchromakey]

You may be able to get your tax back, but possibly not until the whole tax year has expired and it would depend on your annual income for 2014.

The 4,500 THB Tax that was paid will have been entered, along with your personal tax code on the Withholding Tax form (PND 1) which is submitted every month the Tax Department by your employer.

Next March you will have to file your PND 91 Annual Personal Tax Return for 2014 (January - December), on this you record all tax owing/paid on your behalf.

If you are due a tax refund for fiscal year 2014, then having correctly filed your PND 91 showing back taxes over paid, you will get a cheque from the government in about June 2015.

However you may well find that this amount gets lost in your overall tax liability if you start a new job and then subsequently exceed your annual personal allowance for 2014.

Here is a link to the Thai Revenue Department Website.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

The relevant section for you on the Tax Department Webpage is as quoted below:

Any withholding tax or half-yearly tax which has been paid to the Revenue Department can be used as a credit against the tax liability at the end of the year.

[TerryLH]

For (Dec) 2013 you should have filed by the end of March. For filing late, you might have to pay a small fine. I've heard it's just a couple of hundred baht.

Your 2014 filing date is next March. You'll need a form from each employer when that time comes.

You won't be reimbursed for Social Security.

[Tomtomtom69]

For (Dec) 2013 you should have filed by the end of March. For filing late, you might have to pay a small fine. I've heard it's just a couple of hundred baht.

Your 2014 filing date is next March. You'll need a form from each employer when that time comes.

You won't be reimbursed for Social Security.

Thanks - as mentioned I kinda knew that social security wouldn't be reimbursed.

I didn't know about the filing requirement by end of March - my company didn't tell me anything. Can I still file for next year and obtain a refund for Dec-Jan of this year?

Also, while I have the tax forms, I don't have a tax file number. Can I just submit the one tax form I have (from December)? In December no tax was deducted from my pay, only in January. Will this be an issue? Perhaps the tax authorities could just look up my name and then send me a refund cheque?

I find it strange that my company employed me and told me about everything I need to know about the job, benefits and even the need to cancel the visa extension when the job ends but not anything about tax, which frankly is a much more complicated issue.

[digitalchromakey]

For (Dec) 2013 you should have filed by the end of March. For filing late, you might have to pay a small fine. I've heard it's just a couple of hundred baht.

Your 2014 filing date is next March. You'll need a form from each employer when that time comes.

You won't be reimbursed for Social Security.

Thanks - as mentioned I kinda knew that social security wouldn't be reimbursed.

I didn't know about the filing requirement by end of March - my company didn't tell me anything. Can I still file for next year and obtain a refund for Dec-Jan of this year?

Also, while I have the tax forms, I don't have a tax file number. Can I just submit the one tax form I have (from December)? In December no tax was deducted from my pay, only in January. Will this be an issue? Perhaps the tax authorities could just look up my name and then send me a refund cheque?

I find it strange that my company employed me and told me about everything I need to know about the job, benefits and even the need to cancel the visa extension when the job ends but not anything about tax, which frankly is a much more complicated issue.

Go to your local Tax Office with your Dec 2013 PND 1 (also needs a copy of the company 'till roll' payment slip print out as well) plus passport, etc and maybe proof of address.

Tell them you want to file your annual personal taxes for 2013 (Jan-Dec), they will give you a PND91 to fill out.

If they are not busy and you are lucky they will help you fill out the form.

Pay the small fine for late filing and you then will get any tax calculated as due for return on your PND 91 back in the from of a cheque posted to your home address some time around June/July.

Be prepared to be called in to the main area tax office at some point in May/June to show extra details if required.

[TerryLH]

"Can I still file for next year and obtain a refund for Dec-Jan of this year?"

" In December no tax was deducted from my pay, only in January."

December of 2013 and January 2014 are two different tax years. No refund of money not payed for December.

If this was me, I'd tackle it like this;

Go to the Revenue Office and tell them you want to file for 2013. You won't be in their system because no taxes were collected.

They may say not to bother to file, but if you don't it might cause questions at immigration the next time you go to extend.

The form is easy, but in Thai. They should have someone help you fill out the short form. They do have an English version of the form somewhere on line that you can fill out sort of as a cheat sheet. The actual form you'll submit will be all in Thai.

They should also deal with the tax ID issue.

Ask them to look you up for January. Make sure they have the money your employer collected. If they don't have it in the system, better to get it fixed now instead of a year from now.

Taxes aren't complicated - for most.

Good luck.

[Satcommlee]

Be very careful claiming anything back from the tax man if your affairs before and after your employment are not 100% legal...

If you had an active thai bank account before you started work they can look at it (Where did the money come from???), and the same applies to any activity after you finish work!

Maybe this is a bit paranoid for such a petty amount being claimed back, but it is certainly true for large rebates..

[TerryLH]

"Maybe this is a bit paranoid..."

Perhaps a little more than a bit.

"...they can look at it..."

Who are 'they'?

[Tomtomtom69]

"Can I still file for next year and obtain a refund for Dec-Jan of this year?"

" In December no tax was deducted from my pay, only in January."

December of 2013 and January 2014 are two different tax years. No refund of money not payed for December.

If this was me, I'd tackle it like this;

Go to the Revenue Office and tell them you want to file for 2013. You won't be in their system because no taxes were collected.

They may say not to bother to file, but if you don't it might cause questions at immigration the next time you go to extend.

The form is easy, but in Thai. They should have someone help you fill out the short form. They do have an English version of the form somewhere on line that you can fill out sort of as a cheat sheet. The actual form you'll submit will be all in Thai.

They should also deal with the tax ID issue.

Ask them to look you up for January. Make sure they have the money your employer collected. If they don't have it in the system, better to get it fixed now instead of a year from now.

Taxes aren't complicated - for most.

Good luck.

OK thanks for the tips. Thai form is OK as I'm fluent in it. Anyway looks like I can choose to wait until next year to file for this year's taxes. Since no tax was deducted in December there's nothing to refund as you say.

[JimHuaHin]

You may be able to get your tax back, but possibly not until the whole tax year has expired and it would depend on your annual income for 2014.

The 4,500 THB Tax that was paid will have been entered, along with your personal tax code on the Withholding Tax form (PND 1) which is submitted every month the Tax Department by your employer.

Next March you will have to file your PND 91 Annual Personal Tax Return for 2014 (January - December), on this you record all tax owing/paid on your behalf.

If you are due a tax refund for fiscal year 2014, then having correctly filed your PND 91 showing back taxes over paid, you will get a cheque from the government in about June 2015.

However you may well find that this amount gets lost in your overall tax liability if you start a new job and then subsequently exceed your annual personal allowance for 2014.

Here is a link to the Thai Revenue Department Website.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

The relevant section for you on the Tax Department Webpage is as quoted below:

Any withholding tax or half-yearly tax which has been paid to the Revenue Department can be used as a credit against the tax liability at the end of the year.

From my quick reading of the above website ... http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html ... even foreign retirees are required to pay income tax on monies we bring/transfer into Thailand - is that correct?

[ronthai]

600 baht tax, run away

[ubonjoe]

From my quick reading of the above website ... http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html ... even foreign retirees are required to pay income tax on monies we bring/transfer into Thailand - is that correct?

That is not correct.

If you read the info under tax base 2.1 it states it has to be income from working and etc. There is no mention anywhere of pensions.

[Time Traveller]

From my quick reading of the above website ... http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html ... even foreign retirees are required to pay income tax on monies we bring/transfer into Thailand - is that correct?

That is not correct.

If you read the info under tax base 2.1 it states it has to be income from working and etc. There is no mention anywhere of pensions.

Nice try.

In section 1 of that link it clearly states...."A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand"

Are you qualified to give taxation advice. ?

[Satcommlee]

Tax is a minefield, but you are supposed to pay tax on incomes from abroad if Thailand does not have a reciprocal tax treaty with that country.

I won't pretend I understand it properly, but if a person was receiving a tax free income from abroad and is ''temporarily for tax purposes a resident in Thailand'', then that income sourced from abroad should also be subject to tax.

However the income shall not be double taxed - ie: taxed at source as well as taxed in Thailand.

It makes perfect sense, because Thailand could be a super tax haven for the wealthy if tax was only paid by foreigners on work permit income.... Although I doubt many of us fall into such a category of abuse.

Hence my accountants advice.... Never ever claim a tax refund as it can open a can of worms!!!!!

[ubonjoe]

As I wrote before it depends upon the source of the income. If you take time to read 2.1 on the webpage posted it tells you what income is taxable.

Pensions are not.

[Tywais]

From Tilleke & Gibbins International Ltd. pdf file here

Under the Revenue Code, an individual, Thai or foreign, who derives assessable income from sources in Thailand is liable to pay personal income tax whether or not such income is paid within or outside Thailand

A person (Thai or foreign) who resides in Thailand at one or more times for an aggregate period of 180 days or more in any tax (calendar) year will be regarded as a resident of Thailand for tax purposes. A resident of Thailand is liable for personal income tax on income from sources inside Thailand and on assessable income derived from sources outside Thailand. However, the imposition of tax on income derived outside Thailand will apply only to income derived and brought into Thailand in the same year in which such income is earned. A non-resident is subject to pay tax only on income from sources within Thailand (irrespective of the place of payment).

Assessable income from sources in Thailand include the following:

a. income from a post or an office held in Thailand;
b. income from a business carried in Thailand;
c. income from the business of an employer in Thailand;
d. income from a property situated in Thailand.

Assessable income from sources outside Thailand include the following:

a. income from a post or office held abroad;
b. income from a business carried on abroad;
c. income from a property situated abroad.

More on accessible income from the rd site below - note, pensions are not mentioned.

2.1 Assessable Income

Income chargeable to the PIT is called “assessable income”. The term covers income both in cash and in kind. Therefore, any benefits provided by an employer or other persons, such as a rent-free house or the amount of tax paid by the employer on behalf of the employee, is also treated as assessable income of the employee for the purpose of PIT. Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :

1. income from personal services rendered to employers;
2. income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;
3. income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;
4. income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;
5. income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;
6. income from liberal professions;
7. income from construction and other contracts of work;
8. income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.

[Satcommlee]

Define Pension?

Is this a state entitement where tax was paid on contributions (assuming the state has a reciprocal arrangement), or savings and investments that continue to mature and pay interest?

It really ain't as clear cut as you say!

although the guys who find themsleves at the immigration office for 1 year extensions proving thier 65K a month or 800K in the bank probably have nothing to worry about!

[ubonjoe]

I suggest you read what was posted very carefully.

You seem to be misreading it. Income from investments, savings and etc. that you seem to be construing into a pension the are earned outside of Thailand are not on the taxable list

[JimHuaHin]

Interesting .... the contradictions ... or dare I use the phrase 'differing interpretations of the taxation regulations'.

Like many in this forum, I am on a 'retirement' non-immigrant O-A visa. The only income I receive in Thailand is interest earned from my Thai bank account.

I receive a retirement superannuation pension from Australia, which is taxed in Australia until I am 60 years young. I maintain a bank account in Australia (where I earn higher interest that I would in any Thai bank), and the interest I earn from this account is taxed in Australia. And like some other retirees here, I transfer monies from my Australian account to my Thai bank as the need arises.

I gather that many of the expats in this forum come from countries which have a dual taxation agreement with Thailand - these countries are listed on the Thai Revenue Department's web page.

My understanding is that if one has paid tax on income from their 'home' country, then they do not have to pay tax again on that income in Thailand, if a dual taxation agreement is in place between the two countries; and, if one is not required to pay tax on their income in their 'home' country, for example superannuation pension incomes in Australia for those aged 60+ years young are not taxable, does one have to pay tax on that income when it comes into Thailand?

Does that make sense?