Raising Our Kids Thai Style Is Driving Me Insane

[bowerboy]

Well this is the root of the dissapointment actually...i know many foreigners that are married to Thais whereby the Thai mother has embraced the "western" way of child raising and I am just amazed at what an amazing job they have done of raising their children...if you get it right the combination of Thai calmness and Western drive is about the best combination you can ask for ...BUT it DOES have to be 50/50.

I am not suggesting to completely abandon the Thai way but rather to think about the pros and cons of each way and adapt accordingly.

I know there are a lot of arguments around this but what life and career opportunities would be better for your child? Those opportuntities typically afforded to the average child born and raised in Roi Et or the opportunities for the average child raised in the UK?

I know that Thai's appear to be very happy with their lot but much of that comes from not knowing what they dont have and not being educated to question or think about what they don't have.

Just wondering what else can you expect If you are out at work all day. You're son's Mother is Thai., your wife's Mother is Thai...how can you expect your son to be reared in any manner other than in the Thai way.....If your wife was American...and her Mother was an American.....your son would be reared the American way....only logical...is it not?

[bowerboy]

If you are not in the OP's situation it will be easy for you to say it's his fault. Truth is, if you did a survey in this country about the definition of parenting, you would be shocked by the difference between Thais and the west. I would go as far to say that parenting, as a concept, does not even exist here (at least among the masses) beyond the idea of meeting basic needs and getting the kids into the system. Sure there will be exceptions, but the amount of times I have seen people turn everyday events into learning experiences here, I could count on one hand. Always the path of least resistance is chosen. If the OP's missus is not on the same page with him on this, he has years of frustration coming up. The best thing to do is to get her out west to spend a little time with western moms and kids. Sure the moms are paranoid and obsessive, but a lot of those kids are absolutely brilliant.

I concur.

Completely agreed...absolutely spot on.

[empireboy]

Not trying to be funny but what exactly are you contributing to your children's up bringing ? Sounds to me like your leaving all this to the wife and relatives and not contributing anything

Breadwinner. As in most families any where in the world I am working 8 to 6pm to get the money to feed my family, provide for the future and educate my children.

Yes of course I am leaving the bulk of it to the wife...by necessity....as is done almost everywhere in the world (not just Thailand).

As it seems not a good plan....

Work roles in life are a choice. Not saying your not feeling differently, but I assert you could make different choices and become a lot more involved in your children's life and educate your wife by example IN THE PROCESS. Take a month off work for example. Work a 4 day week. Get a different job. Start your own business.... that's all I can think of in 30 seconds, but if it's seriously important to you then maybe consider reasonable and creative options where YOU change first??

[Toscano]

I would like to add , my own children are in their forties . My daughter 44yrs is married to a German and lives in Berlin , she has two children a girl aged 12 and a boy aged 10 . My daughter was a nanny for about ten years and then a Montesori teacher . She is very capable at bringing up children and teaches English in a bilingual school , however hers son has been exceedingly unruly and rude . My two sons aged fortyfive and forty both married late and both have very small children . Their very intelligent wives have little order in mothering , children scream and don't sleep , so they get very tired . I say this because I think parenting in the west is not what it should be and used to be . My late wife and I had a strict programme from morning till night , that didn't include television or computers . Meals at the table at precise times , rest after lunch , for mother too , a walk in the afternoon or playing in the garden , summer days on the beach , I taught them to ride ponies , they used to go sailing with us in our yacht and later had dinghy sailing lessons . My wife and I gave a lead and did fun things with our children .

[wvavin]

Sounds like its the recipe for disaster has started brewing. Wish you good luck.

[kannot]

Bringing up kids is hard work and its easy to stick them in front of a tv or i pad............. shes idle plain and simple , at least in that respect.

All i see these days is a gormless face stuck in an i pad or phone, joy of joys if the things all vanished.

[Pii Kate]

First you are expecting your wife to raise your child in a way unknown to her. And yes, you work but someone has to model European child rearing. Sit with son, read to him, go for walks after dinner. Get him educational toys and have fun with him. Set rules, no phones, TV, etc. during meals and you honor that too. 30-45 min. a day with your son will help you both bond and he will want to do your European family stuff because he will want to please you. No spontaneous family visits after sundown. Little ones need more than 12 hours of sleep a night, snacks and fluids between meals. No wonder he has been cranky. Oh and lastly, he needs a strong father figure. Be present to him when you are home. Good luck, parenting ain't easy.

[kannot]

If you are not in the OP's situation it will be easy for you to say it's his fault. Truth is, if you did a survey in this country about the definition of parenting, you would be shocked by the difference between Thais and the west. I would go as far to say that parenting, as a concept, does not even exist here (at least among the masses) beyond the idea of meeting basic needs and getting the kids into the system. Sure there will be exceptions, but the amount of times I have seen people turn everyday events into learning experiences here, I could count on one hand. Always the path of least resistance is chosen. If the OP's missus is not on the same page with him on this, he has years of frustration coming up. The best thing to do is to get her out west to spend a little time with western moms and kids. Sure the moms are paranoid and obsessive, but a lot of those kids are absolutely brilliant.

I concur.

Completely agreed...absolutely spot on.

Agreed too, its nothing more than being bone idle, parenting is a 24/7 job its hard work keeping them entertained everyday.

[bowerboy]

Sorry just one point...I said she was great Mother and she truly is (and a great wife)...what I am saying is that she is not a great parent...thats really the point...parenting is completely different to mothering (in my opinion).

I remember my brothers wife always saying that my brother was way too "pally" or "chummy" with his kids and that kids have plenty of friends and what they need you to be is parents rather than friends (or at least rather than pals or chums for want of a better word.

That always stuck with me and I thionk she was/is right.

[benalibina]

Sent you a message...read it

[AnotherOneAmerican]

If you are not in the OP's situation it will be easy for you to say it's his fault. Truth is, if you did a survey in this country about the definition of parenting, you would be shocked by the difference between Thais and the west. I would go as far to say that parenting, as a concept, does not even exist here (at least among the masses) beyond the idea of meeting basic needs and getting the kids into the system. Sure there will be exceptions, but the amount of times I have seen people turn everyday events into learning experiences here, I could count on one hand. Always the path of least resistance is chosen. If the OP's missus is not on the same page with him on this, he has years of frustration coming up. The best thing to do is to get her out west to spend a little time with western moms and kids. Sure the moms are paranoid and obsessive, but a lot of those kids are absolutely brilliant.

Hmmmmm

As an old single dude, let me tell you my perspective looking in from the outside.

In the US, street gangs abound, and kids often make rude comments or gestures as you pass.

In Thailand, kids are extremely polite, smile and say hello as I pass.

Which countries parents do I think are more successful?

[canuckamuck]

If you are not in the OP's situation it will be easy for you to say it's his fault. Truth is, if you did a survey in this country about the definition of parenting, you would be shocked by the difference between Thais and the west. I would go as far to say that parenting, as a concept, does not even exist here (at least among the masses) beyond the idea of meeting basic needs and getting the kids into the system. Sure there will be exceptions, but the amount of times I have seen people turn everyday events into learning experiences here, I could count on one hand. Always the path of least resistance is chosen. If the OP's missus is not on the same page with him on this, he has years of frustration coming up. The best thing to do is to get her out west to spend a little time with western moms and kids. Sure the moms are paranoid and obsessive, but a lot of those kids are absolutely brilliant.

Hmmmmm

As an old single dude, let me tell you my perspective looking in from the outside.

In the US, street gangs abound, and kids often make rude comments or gestures as you pass.

In Thailand, kids are extremely polite, smile and say hello as I pass.

Which countries parents do I think are more successful?

What percentage of American kids would you say are running in gangs and harassing folks. I would say about the same percentage that have been let down by the system and or their parents. That doesn't mean that people in America don't generally strive for good parenting.

And don't be fooled by the polite Thai kids, it's all passive aggressive here. They'll get you when they got the numbers or when you are away.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I know there are a lot of arguments around this but what life and career opportunities would be better for your child? Those opportuntities typically afforded to the average child born and raised in Roi Et or the opportunities for the average child raised in the UK?

I know that Thai's appear to be very happy with their lot but much of that comes from not knowing what they dont have and not being educated to question or think about what they don't have.

Can't speak for kids in the UK,

But in the USA there isn't much hope or opportunity for the average kid. Health care and dental treatment beyond the reach of most families. Same for education. University fees are through the roof with little change of earning enough to pay them back. Most people back home, work till they drop dead for 3 weeks vacation a year and a divorce where the woman gets the lot.

The west was a great place to be a kid 40 years ago (I was there), but it isn't the same now.

It's not that good a place for a straight adult male to live and work now either.

At least in Thailand, free medical for all, nobody hungry and nobody cold.

If I had to choose kids in the USA or Thailand now, and I wasn't seriously wealthy.

Thailand would get my vote, at least they have a chance of some happiness.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

What percentage of American kids would you say are running in gangs and harassing folks.

When I was a kid, almost everyone I knew was in a gang.

Can't imagine it has improved.

Your idea of normal kids in the west has a hint of rose colored specs.

I was a normal kid in the USA, I was in a gang.

Edited April 27, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[benalibina]

What percentage of American kids would you say are running in gangs and harassing folks.

When I was a kid, almost everyone I knew was in a gang.

Can't imagine it has improved.

Your idea of normal kids in the west has a hint of rose colored specs.

I was a normal kid in the USA, I was in a gang.

This topic is thairelated.

We all have different perceptions of...normality...

There are way more societies than the american 1.

Do you have children in Thailand ?

[VMOMMO]

Small children should not be watching TV and should not be playing with iPads. This is not the "Thai" way of bringing up a child, it is unfortunately something happening everywhere. Take away the iPad and limit the TV. There is plenty of research about this. My two daughters hardly ever watched TV. They were read to by both parents. iPads didn't exist then but they were never allowed to play video games. Two well adjusted honour students. My sister-in-law has a 2 1/2 yr old. He has his nose in his iPad half the day and watches dramas on TV the rest. He cannot speak a single word yet at 2 1/2...

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Do you have children in Thailand ?

No, but I am Thai and I had 10 Thai Uncles and Aunts and they have countless kids/grandkids.

All of whom appear polite and respectful to adults, even the ones in gangs.

I probably have 100+ relatives under the age of 20 in Thailand.

One of the serious problems in the west is the young victimizing the elderly, that's very rare here.

In my opinion, poor Thail parents do a far better job of bringing up children than poor western parents.

Poor people being the norm, in every country in the world.

I think part of the problem with all the Thai bashing threads is essentially culture shock.

Elderly western men from a privileged background, mixing with dirt poor young Thai women.

They've never mixed with the poor before, and suddenly it's completely different.

Can't imagine many TV posters are poor or uneducated.

If they were, they wouldn't be in Thailand, playground for men with a bit of money.

Edited April 27, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Som wat]

Reattach your testicles. Ban all Thai family from the house.

As just a start.

Jaysus christius, put your foot down and don't be the bitch in the relationship, what you says goes and that's all there is to it.

It might be different if she (they) had some idea of how to live, raise a child, but they obviously don't.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Som wat

[benalibina]

Do you have children in Thailand ?

No, but I am Thai and I had 10 Thai Uncles and Aunts and they have countless kids/grandkids.

All of whom appear polite and respectful to adults, even the ones in gangs.

I probably have 100+ relatives under the age of 20 in Thailand.

One of the serious problems in the west is the young victimizing the elderly, that's very rare here.

In my opinion, poor Thail parents do a far better job of bringing up children than poor western parents.

Poor people being the norm, in every country in the world.

I think part of the problem with all the Thai bashing threads is essentially culture shock.

Elderly western men from a privileged background, mixing with dirt poor young Thai women.

They've never mixed with the poor before, and suddenly it's completely different.

Can't imagine many TV posters are poor or uneducated.

If they were, they wouldn't be in Thailand, playground for men with a bit of money.

Well apart from your sweeping generalizations, the only norm for you to raise a kid properly is to teach them to be polite and respectful, on the outside.

Correct that is the poor Thai way.....as far as it goes.

No wonder the OP has issues.

[Robby nz]

Don't know if the direction this topic has gone is just what you envisaged but possibly I could bring it back to suggestions.

If you have space outside build him a sand pit and get the appropriate toys, put a shade cloth cover over it for MR"s and MIL probably wont want him out in the sun getting black like a ............................, not allowed to say in this PC world.

Get him to help you build it, teach him the English names of the tools and toys and how to use them, get him to ask mum the Thai names.

A paddling pool and water toys also, covered same, then take him out to play in them. Don't leave him alone in the water of course.

That should get him running up to you when you get home wanting to go out and play, so even if you feel tired do it for him.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

........ the only norm for you to raise a kid properly is to teach them to be polite and respectful, on the outside.

Polite and respectful works for me.

What more could anyone wish for from other peoples' children?

[VMOMMO]

Good suggestions for toys and things to do. Kids love to do things with their parents. It makes them feel that they are important.

Also, when you have kids, your life as you used to know it is over. At least for the first few years. The evenings alone with your wife relaxing while the kiddies sleep just don't happen very often. Even with western kids and western (now ex) wife, there was always something happening or going wrong.

Try to spend time with them. They will grow up very quickly. Let the wife have a break for a while when you get home, it will help her too.

[KunMatt]

OP you know what is best for your kids and you have to do what you know is right so you do it your way.

We lived in Isaan in my wife's village for 2 years, from when my son was 6 months old, we had a daughter last year too. I tried to make the most of living in the village and raising him with his extended Isaan family but in the end I decided that for the good of my children to move away to Bangkok before one of my kid's got seriously injured or worse. His family are good people and would never do anything to intentionally hurt my kids who they completely adore, however my son was getting hurt and injured every single time he went and spent any time with them and it got to the point where I would worry whenever he was in their care.

In the beginning I think I made a lot of concessions letting his grandparents do things their way a few times, this lead to my son developing some behavioural problems which I believe can be directly attributed to their style of discipline and care. The most serious problem was that they would never discipline him when he was naughty, so he would hurt one of them and they all would laugh and cheer, so he would go around and punch them each in the face and they would all laugh and clap, this then got to the point where whenever he was with anyone he would punch them in the face; we would walk down the street and he would take a swing at any stranger who was within reach, it is very hard to unteach a child something like this once he has got a lot of attention for it before so I tried to put a stop to it as soon as I could. I told all of them to not laugh at him when he was naughty and to tell him off and put him in the naughty corner when he did so, but they all said it was cruel to do that to him and nothing at all changed. Apply this mindset to every aspect of my child's upbringing with them and he developed a lot of problems which I found very difficult to correct even to this day. We've been living in BKK now for 4 months and my son is so much better than when we first moved here, he goes to an international play-school every day and the teachers are commenting that they don't understand why my son will be happy and playing with another kid and then out of the blue punch him in the face and carry on playing like it's normal.

The behavioural side was a big factor but even worse was that I feared for the safety for my son. He would get injured every single time he spent any time with his Isaan family, coming home after just 1 hour away with a huge bruise over his face or body, or a gash on a leg or arm, and they would say "it's his fault for falling off of a table/wall/motorbike", like their supervision doesn't cover stopping him from climbing onto a wall or motorbike. Of course my son would get the occasional knock with me too but I can count on one hand in 3 years the sort of injuries he has received under my care that he would get every single day in Isaan. I work in an industry where health and safety is paramount and if there is a pattern of repeating incidents then the job would be shut down and the conditions and the mindset of all involved would have to be changed because statistics have shown that repeating small incidents always lead up to a catastrophe if nothing is changed, and I could not change the mindset of my Isaan family to stop my son getting hurt every time she was in their care and a serious incident was looming if I did nothing.

It was a very harsh step moving away from his loving Isaan family but it is for the best and he is doing so much better here in Bangkok now with just his parents. Health and safety is nothing here and people think it is funny to take a huge risk with life, the same people will be screaming in disbelief when something horrible happens because of their negligence, but nothing will change after that.

Do what is best for your kids. Which is worse; offending your Thai family or having something horrible happen to your kids because you didn't step in when you needed to?

[Puyai]

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Thanks for the thoughts guys...I am defnitely going to aim for the pre school starting in May...at the end of the day if we cant provide some semblance of structure then school is a good foundation block to start from.

As for the coming home from work and spending time with our Son it is that part that is driving me insane. I love spending time with him and the time we spend together on the weekend is really the only time he gets out of the house. But when I get home at 6;30 what I would like to happen is that I spend quality focused time with him and what I see as mormal back in the west (and what I would like) is something like this:

6:30 - Play time together.

7:15 bath and story time

8pm sleep

8pm to 10:30 relax with wife and unwind

What hapens due to lack of structure is that I get home and 6;30 and he is running around or feeding or playing or bathing or sleeping (yes he sometimes doesnt even wake up from afternoon nap until 6:30pm) it is anyones guess. Then it is basically chaos for the rest of the evening until 10pm at which point he may or may not sleep and because he is now so used to sleeping with us that he wont sleep unless we are in the bed with him! So basically due to lack of structure and poor parenting I have no time to relax and unwind (or my wife either). EVERYONE I know in the UK does it the right way so the kid has discipline and also so they have a routine and time for themselves.

I fear my wife (as is common here) just takes the easy way out without being able to think of the future and possible consequences. Give him the ipad now, or let him sleep for 4 hours, or chase him around with food to save 5 minutes of pain without any possible way of conceiving of the idea that the 5 minutes less pain causes 4 hours of pain later!!

Anyway, many thanks for the comments and he is starting school on 12th May...

The sleep routine is one thing I was adamant my son would have. He has his nap at 12.00 (ish) for an hour and a half (ish) and is in bed for 8, asleep for 8.30 (no matter who comes round). Unfortunately changing your sons routine is going to be extremely difficult now and will have to be done gradually with help from your wife. I don't think your wife will see it at as problem though, Thais like their children to stay up late, maybe because it's too hot in the day to do anything, and most people tend to socialise in the evenings.

Your so right about chasing the children around with a bowl of food!! What's wrong with teaching them to sit down and eat? Everything you have said, I have been there! Fortunately, I am home a lot more than you and have the time to spend with my son to play, read, swim, talk, go for walks and do things which actually stimulate his mind!.

Get him to play school and off that i pad.

Good luck with changing your wife's attitude to bringing up children.

[Kitsune]

Parenting skill are totally ignored here.

Nothing to do with being Thai, just plain ignorance.

Kids are pretty much left to their own devise, sometimes at risk: my friend's 18 months old daughter is often left unsupervised by her granma: If she sleeps, grandma takes the opportunity to leave the house and leaves her behind unsupervised. Or she would leave her alone in the house while she's in the garden for hours on end. My friend really gets upset as he find scratches and scars some big ones on the toddler's body every time he leaves his daughter to the grandma's care.

The typical reaction to a kid misbehaving, being reckless, anguished, or even crying is to ignore it , at best they get a "babababa" to make them stop but nothing is ever addressed, (why are you crying/ whats happened/ No you can't have icecream) nothing is explained nothing is taught, emotionally or intellectually.

[brd]

BowerBoy

In life raising a pet and a kid the first 2 years are very similar and in Thailand kids remain pets all their life :

no discipline, play, play, play, unreliable, moody, various smiling faces hiding their minds and the problem come from education they have like raising buffalo.

I went through the same experience than yours but I kicked out grand ma grand pa and relatives as they were more than interfering in what

is educating kids.

Kids are their entertainment as they are laughing at all their excesses of all kinds included their sex plays like animals.

We have 3 and my wife got the message finished to be her mother daughter to rely on her now she is my wife of who is a smart foreigner

she is lucky I picked up her and we are blessed with three charming kids.

Thai education is non existent because they do not bother to say no to them and do not like to hear them crying.

Teaching is at its minimum....

You are doing right Thai need to change and it is not going to happen overnight.

Dead people do not know they are dead same same with stupid people they do not know they are stupid.....That they all understood it.

Never give up and it will work because your wife knows you are right.

Take well care of your kids with your presence as much as possible.

[ggt]

Anyway this whole situation is driving me insane!

When you "put your foot down" expect to get a great deal of gruff from wife...and possibly Thai family...don't expect them to change...it will only make matters worse...they will resent you for it...

This is Thailand...not Europe...do not try to hold the Thais to European standards...

Best advice...either chill...go with the flow...making suggestions for improving yours son's upbringing...along the way...or go to that part of the world you deem so necessary for your son's wellbeing...and raise him there...

You are fighting a losing battle...like asking a Thai not to watch those juvenile Thai soap operas...not going to happen...

[funcat]

Do you have children in Thailand ?

No, but I am Thai and I had 10 Thai Uncles and Aunts and they have countless kids/grandkids.

All of whom appear polite and respectful to adults, even the ones in gangs.

I probably have 100+ relatives under the age of 20 in Thailand.

One of the serious problems in the west is the young victimizing the elderly, that's very rare here.

In my opinion, poor Thail parents do a far better job of bringing up children than poor western parents.

Poor people being the norm, in every country in the world.

I think part of the problem with all the Thai bashing threads is essentially culture shock.

Elderly western men from a privileged background, mixing with dirt poor young Thai women.

They've never mixed with the poor before, and suddenly it's completely different.

Can't imagine many TV posters are poor or uneducated.

If they were, they wouldn't be in Thailand, playground for men with a bit of money.

If you are Thai and have no children...than yes,you can have your opinion...in the West we call it 'freedom of speech'....but what are you doing here?It's about Western father raising concerns about the way the Thai lazy mothers are just letting their kids grow 'the natural way'....I got some of the examples here in 'my' home....If I don't say anything,nobody will move a finger......and I would say,the kids have respect to the Thai elderly,Thai teachers,Thai family....hmmm,that's about it.....

[AYJAYDEE]

" I am not stating either way is better than the other but based on what I have seen after 10 years here if you had to look at the overall evidence you would have to think that a child stands a better chance of success with a European style upbringing which is what I am basing the above on."

Lol! youre not saying which is better, youre just saying you think the european style is better!!

[Som wat]

2 yr old kid.

"and they would say "it's his fault for falling off of a table/wall/motorbike""

Lolocaust.

and people wonder why there's 'Thai bashing'.