Thai opposition urges PM to resign, refuses to back poll

[EvilDrSomkid]

Abhisit unveils his nine-point political roadmap

Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva today (Saturday) proposed his nine-point political roadmap which, among them, calls for the resignation of caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and her cabinet, slowing down the election and setting up a neutral interim government and a reform council.

“I would like to ask Khun Yingluck ( the prime minister) whether it is possible that she just step aside for 5-6 months. Khun Yingluck should be aware of her own status which is hanging in uncertainty and is unable to function fully,” said Abisit.

He insisted that the country would stand to benefit fully from his proposed roadmap. “There will be reform, election but no coup and no bloodshed,” he said, adding that he would take this opportunity to ask People’s Democratic Reform Committee secretary-general Suthep Thuagsuban not to reject this proposal outright but to take into consideration if the government responds positively to his proposed roadmap.

Abhisit explained that the neutral interim government must be acceptable to all stakeholders and that its scope of duty and responsibility must be clearly confined to working reform, holding referendum to endorse the reform and staging the election.

He explained that, under his proposed roadmap, the reform process would take 18 months after which an election will be staged within 150-180 days.

The Democrat leader said that his proposed roadmap, if accepted by all the stakeholders, especially the government and the PDRC, would prevent possible bloodshed and a coup.

As for himself, Abhisit said he would not benefit anything from the proposed roadmap but the country would. Under the present political impasse where there is no way out, he said he could not afford just to sit idly by and decided to step in to do his part to help resolve the conflict.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/abhisit-unveils-nine-point-political-roadmap/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=abhisit-unveils-nine-point-political-roadmap

-- Thai PBS 2014-05-03

Call me cynical, but I am afraid that neither PTP/Red shirts nor the PDRC will accept this. Too many steps where this can go wrong. It asks for a lot of humility and patience from parties which have shown none.

It looks like a reasonable roadmap, but where will neutral members be found?

[binjalin]

Abhisit has waste the time of many people. His plan is unconstitutional. His plan is so close to Suthep plan of an unelected government. You want reforms it must be reforms from the people not from a few selected. The people have a right to vote for the government and the reforms they want. Not accept what the elite want it to be. Abhisit better you boycott the elections. Elections first then reforms and the people vote for the reforms then a new election. Nothing else is acceptable.

Reforms first, then elections. Nothing else is acceptable.

Election first, then Reforms. Nothing else is acceptable

[terryp]

looks like unlucky number 9 Mark

[rabas]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's accpetance make it legal?

It wouldn't, he wants her to resign so he can do a section 180 and remove the interim government. The so called "create a power vacuum" demand from Suthep.

Section 180. Ministers vacate office en masse upon:

(1) the termination of ministership of the Prime Minister under section 182;

The Senate is half appointed and in power. The appointment committee for the senate is controlled by their man. Giving them a rigged Senate.

And the Independent agencies are chosen by this rigged senate.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

So without a government in power, who would appoint an interim PM? The only people around are the Senate, and now they control the Senate leader Abhisit says Senate Leader will choose (based on no legal basis at all). i.e. their man chooses the PM with a fake veneer of independence.

It's clear when he says that after she's resigned and they have power, only then will they discuss what reforms to do. The big thing that power gives them is control of the military. The problem with this coup, is the generals just don't want to go on a kill spree like 2010. So they've been reluctant all along. With Prayuth being the man on the fence. Abhisit/Suthep backer lost influence over the military.

The independent agencies are afraid of removing a government of the people on the excuse of "they moved a civil servant", or "they voted to make the senate elected" etc. Without the military to protect them, they are afraid their lies will land them in jail or worse.

So Abhisit wants control of the military, and that re-establishes control of the independent agencies, and have enough fire power to support a judicial coup. He will have to rig the Parliament and Government to regain power in any future elected government, that will inevitably lead to large scale protests, and in turn he needs to be able to do a military crackdown.

I'm mentioned this before, a coup of a minority over a majority requires the minority have enough weapons to cover the kill ratio. So a coup of 10k people can overpower a population of 100k, but only if they have 10 times or greater the killing power. That needs a well armed army, with willing soldiers and in turn that needs him to grab power and control of that army.

From a simple opposition statement that the caretaker puppet prime minister should step down, you have Abhisit working out the kill ratio required to eliminate the vast majority of the Thai population!

The day wow became not enough !

[Mango Bob]

No wonder Mark said he would not run for Pm or be party leader if his plan was accepted. He knew no one would accept such an unconstitutional plan like this. How can he even call himself a democrat. Shame on him.

[Asiantravel]

If the opposition is so reluctant to participate in an election then at the very least they should publish full details of who exactly would sit on the People's Council with full details of every individual member, together with a comprehensive list of all the reforms which they intend to introduce (without any opportunity to sneak in further provision later on) and even hold a people's referendum on these intended reforms. The opposition should also provide a firm date for a future general election.

[JesseFrank]

Abhisit has waste the time of many people. His plan is unconstitutional. His plan is so close to Suthep plan of an unelected government. You want reforms it must be reforms from the people not from a few selected. The people have a right to vote for the government and the reforms they want. Not accept what the elite want it to be. Abhisit better you boycott the elections. Elections first then reforms and the people vote for the reforms then a new election. Nothing else is acceptable.

Reforms first, then elections. Nothing else is acceptable.

Election first, then Reforms. Nothing else is acceptable

When PT was elected in 2011 they promised reforms.

They only reform they made was that the backhanders weren't shared anymore with strangers to PT.

[BlueNoseCodger]

He explained that, under his proposed roadmap, the reform process would take 18 months after which an election will be staged within 150-180 days.

The Democrat leader said that his proposed roadmap, if accepted by all the stakeholders, especially the government and the PDRC, would prevent possible bloodshed and a coup.

Interesting he's threatening possible bloodshed and a coup as a veiled threat. When he met with General Tanasak, he then spun that as Tanasak supporting him. So now he's trying to leverage that to try to make you think he can call a military coup if you refuse.

But they've tried repeatedly to get the military to come in and back their coup as early as last December, and thrown countless hand-grenades at their own protestors to give the army cover to "protect" them. Dressed up as police to try to convince the army the police are killing them.

I think Tanasak needs to repeat his no coup remarks to make it clear that Abhisit hasn't convinced him to have a coup.

That will stop Abhisit trying to leverage threats of military massacres as a way to grab power.

[MaxLee]

Too late, Election-Collection is around the corner, as well as the revival of the Amnesty bill, and you and Suthep can kiss your behinds goodbye...

That's the reality, as bitter as it is for all of us in Thailand: "the legend in Dubai will never die or perish..."

[Thaddeus]

Another 3.8 billion baht down the crapper.

Plus tips.

[jayjayjayjay]

HOAX

3) The National Reform Network and the People's Democratic Reform Committee must draft a master plan of reforms within 30 days.

Well that puts the wolf in the henhouse just fine eh? The good People Suthep's Lot

Fail Abhisit fail... but then that was the intention wasn't it.. Propose something you know will not fly in order to not particip[ate in the elections..

How is this in any way shape or form is this " Launching his well-trailed proposal to ease the crisis..."

But don't forget, recent news of Abhisits newphew placed him as President of the Oxford Union Society formally the Oxford Debating Union has entered mainstream.a consultant for the Opposition Leader! What his newphew forgot to advise is that entering a debating room with a gattling gun is not a solution making proposition!

[Thaddeus]

Abhisit proposes PM to resign, interim govt to carry out urgent reform

BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party leader Saturday proposed that the caretaker government should resign to pave way for an establishment of an interim administration to carry out an urgent reform before holding a new election.

The post-election government must spend another to carry out further reforms and then dissolve the House and hold another election, Abhisit proposed.

The proposals were parts of ten-point blueprint for bringing Thailand out of the political deadlock drafted by Abhisit after he held meetings with some political parties and some government agencies.

Abhisit raised the following proposals:

1) The enactment of election royal decree must be postponed.

2) The Election Commission must issue regulations for improving the electoral system.

3) The National Reform Network and the People's Democratic Reform Committee must draft a master plan of reforms within 30 days.

4) The reform master plan must be sent for a national referendum within 90 days.

5) The atmosphere of peaceful and orderly election should be created during the referendum time.

6) The prime minister must resign and the Senate speaker must nominate a nonpartisan prime minister for King's approval.

7) The interim nonpartisan government must focus on reforms and solve urgent problems.

8) After the reforms are done, a new election must be held in 45 to 60 days. The new government must carry out further reforms or else the coalition leader and partners must be dissolved and banned from election.

9) The new government must complete reforms in one year and dissolve the House and hold a new election under new election rules.

10) Reforms must be carried out on the remaining issues after the second election.

-- The Nation 2014-05-03

Way to go Abhisit, you completely blew it with point #3.

Why?

Throwing Suthep a bone to get him off the streets is not a bad Idea.

And point 4 covers any unrealistic ideas he could come up with and slip through.

[ginjag]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's accpetance make it legal?

It wouldn't, he wants her to resign so he can do a section 180 and remove the interim government. The so called "create a power vacuum" demand from Suthep.

Section 180. Ministers vacate office en masse upon:

(1) the termination of ministership of the Prime Minister under section 182;

The Senate is half appointed and in power. The appointment committee for the senate is controlled by their man. Giving them a rigged Senate.

And the Independent agencies are chosen by this rigged senate.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

So without a government in power, who would appoint an interim PM? The only people around are the Senate, and now they control the Senate leader Abhisit says Senate Leader will choose (based on no legal basis at all). i.e. their man chooses the PM with a fake veneer of independence.

It's clear when he says that after she's resigned and they have power, only then will they discuss what reforms to do. The big thing that power gives them is control of the military. The problem with this coup, is the generals just don't want to go on a kill spree like 2010. So they've been reluctant all along. With Prayuth being the man on the fence. Abhisit/Suthep backer lost influence over the military.

The independent agencies are afraid of removing a government of the people on the excuse of "they moved a civil servant", or "they voted to make the senate elected" etc. Without the military to protect them, they are afraid their lies will land them in jail or worse.

So Abhisit wants control of the military, and that re-establishes control of the independent agencies, and have enough fire power to support a judicial coup.

I'm mentioned this before, a coup of a minority over a majority requires the minority have enough weapons to cover the kill ratio. So a coup of 10k people can overpower a population of 100k, if they have 10 times or greater the killing power. That needs an army, and in turn that needs him to grab power.

There has been too much debate on this issue, really it is quite clear .

elected government does not fulfill it's obligation to govern fairly as per rule and decree.

it is found over 3 years to go against the law after being warned by so many.

Corruption levels like never before.

Not keeping records of contracts on VIP issues.

Bull dozing through bills in parliament without adequate debate

Election promises that were never kept or paid for.

Because of all that has happened and as I said the government self destructed there HAS to be mega reforms to set Thailand on the straight and narrow.

All the debate about Suthep and democratic elections held quickly is a ploy to overlook the wrongs.

Sorry if this does not fit your agenda pro gov posters.

Which is why if the opposition put up some reasonable policies, they would win an election easily. Instead they just want their turn at the trough.

Besides, if you are so worried about corruption, why would you want the yellows (clearly not democratic) back in as they, including Suthep were corrupt when they were in power and have had no reform since

Who mentioned the yellows--THEY ARE LONG GONE I didn't did I ???

I care who is in--that's why reforms have to be, I do NOT wish for anyone in power if their motives are crooked as of now----understand.

That is why reforms have to come with stringent laws appertaining to corrupt officials, so whoever is elected fairly will have to be transparent of suffer the same fate as Yingluck/PTP. No stupid dissolve to get back in TRIPE.

[Skywalker69]

The kingdom, divided by years of political unrest, has been without a fully functioning government since December

More like three years.

[jpeg]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's acceptance make it legal?

Oh I dunno, the couple of years of the military keeping the seat warm after having given Taksin the bum's rush were relatively calm ...

[jpeg]

The kingdom, divided by years of political unrest, has been without a fully functioning government since December

More like three years.

Make that 'ever'

[ginjag]

Abhisit has waste the time of many people. His plan is unconstitutional. His plan is so close to Suthep plan of an unelected government. You want reforms it must be reforms from the people not from a few selected. The people have a right to vote for the government and the reforms they want. Not accept what the elite want it to be. Abhisit better you boycott the elections. Elections first then reforms and the people vote for the reforms then a new election. Nothing else is acceptable.

Reforms first, then elections. Nothing else is acceptable.

Election first, then Reforms. Nothing else is acceptable

Just up your street for thinking clear,

run the trains again before the lines are repaired, Wind up merchant.

I see from the 10 hardcore Pro gov posters we are down to Clint Eastwards Magnificent 7,, = some also rans.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Abhisit proposes PM to resign, interim govt to carry out urgent reform

BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party leader Saturday proposed that the caretaker government should resign to pave way for an establishment of an interim administration to carry out an urgent reform before holding a new election.

The post-election government must spend another to carry out further reforms and then dissolve the House and hold another election, Abhisit proposed.

The proposals were parts of ten-point blueprint for bringing Thailand out of the political deadlock drafted by Abhisit after he held meetings with some political parties and some government agencies.

Abhisit raised the following proposals:

1) The enactment of election royal decree must be postponed.

2) The Election Commission must issue regulations for improving the electoral system.

3) The National Reform Network and the People's Democratic Reform Committee must draft a master plan of reforms within 30 days.

4) The reform master plan must be sent for a national referendum within 90 days.

5) The atmosphere of peaceful and orderly election should be created during the referendum time.

6) The prime minister must resign and the Senate speaker must nominate a nonpartisan prime minister for King's approval.

7) The interim nonpartisan government must focus on reforms and solve urgent problems.

8) After the reforms are done, a new election must be held in 45 to 60 days. The new government must carry out further reforms or else the coalition leader and partners must be dissolved and banned from election.

9) The new government must complete reforms in one year and dissolve the House and hold a new election under new election rules.

10) Reforms must be carried out on the remaining issues after the second election.

-- The Nation 2014-05-03

Way to go Abhisit, you completely blew it with point #3.

Why?

Throwing Suthep a bone to get him off the streets is not a bad Idea.

And point 4 covers any unrealistic ideas he could come up with and slip through.

3) The National Reform Network and the People's Democratic Reform Committee must draft a master plan of reforms within 30 days.

Him and Suthep have had seven* months and all they've agreed about their plan is that they'll get together and make a plan.... mind-boggling incompetence.

As to point 4, they will hold a referrendum the same way they hold elections! i.e. not at all.

* Actually the recruitment/training of the guards for this coup was back in July 2013, so really they had 9-10 months at least from the planning stage.

[Prbkk]

Pathetic. If that's your best, Mr Abhisit, it's time to pass the baton on to someone who can make a meaningful, worthwhile contribution. Woeful 'plan'. A joke.

[rubl]

Pathetic. If that's your best, Mr Abhisit, it's time to pass the baton on to someone who can make a meaningful, worthwhile contribution. Woeful 'plan'. A joke.

Assuming you feel a bit better now after this emotional outburst, could you give some more objective reasoning for your distinct dislike of the Abhisit voiced possible path towards reform and elections?

Edited May 3, 2014 by rubl

[winstonc]

He explained that, under his proposed roadmap, the reform process would take 18 months after which an election will be staged within 150-180 days.

The Democrat leader said that his proposed roadmap, if accepted by all the stakeholders, especially the government and the PDRC, would prevent possible bloodshed and a coup.

Interesting he's threatening possible bloodshed and a coup as a veiled threat. When he met with General Tanasak, he then spun that as Tanasak supporting him. So now he's trying to leverage that to try to make you think he can call a military coup if you refuse.

But they've tried repeatedly to get the military to come in and back their coup as early as last December, and thrown countless hand-grenades at their own protestors to give the army cover to "protect" them. Dressed up as police to try to convince the army the police are killing them.

I think Tanasak needs to repeat his no coup remarks to make it clear that Abhisit hasn't convinced him to have a coup.

That will stop Abhisit trying to leverage threats of military massacres as a way to grab power.

throwing grenades at their own protesters lol...sober up..

[Melyn]

No wonder Mark said he would not run for Pm or be party leader if his plan was accepted. He knew no one would accept such an unconstitutional plan like this. How can he even call himself a democrat. Shame on him.

Putting out a proposal as opposed to sitting, vacuously in Chiang Mai takes courage.

They have a strawman to build upon (although you might think that's something out of Alice)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rubl]

Why?

Throwing Suthep a bone to get him off the streets is not a bad Idea.

And point 4 covers any unrealistic ideas he could come up with and slip through.

3) The National Reform Network and the People's Democratic Reform Committee must draft a master plan of reforms within 30 days.

Him and Suthep have had seven* months and all they've agreed about their plan is that they'll get together and make a plan.... mind-boggling incompetence.

As to point 4, they will hold a referrendum the same way they hold elections! i.e. not at all.

* Actually the recruitment/training of the guards for this coup was back in July 2013, so really they had 9-10 months at least from the planning stage.

So, first the PDRC is 'fascist' because they want reforms and now because they wanted some input from a larger part of the Thai population they are incompetent.

In between they also had to do some anti0-goverment protesting with the Yingluck government doing everything possible to obstruct them, bad-mouth them, daemonise them, let the police guard them and hope no-one remembers the blanket amnesty bill or the covering of Yingluck's first two years in government.

Of course some posters here still seem to think that "let's just have elections" would help. A bit of wishful thinking unless you're in the "who needs reforms" camp.

[ginjag]

Pathetic. If that's your best, Mr Abhisit, it's time to pass the baton on to someone who can make a meaningful, worthwhile contribution. Woeful 'plan'. A joke.

Assuming you feel a bit better now after this emotional outburst, could you give some more objective reasoning for your distinct dislike of the Abhisit voices possible path towards reform and elections?

Rube it's their choice, cannot give any better alternatives he is just therefore trying to be smart, and unfortunately pro government.

[Thai at Heart]

Nothing original here. It just puts Suthep plan on paper.

It is a little like the 2007 referendum. If the people don't vote for the reforms, then what happens next?

So, it is not a democratic solution, but once again, something that will be delivered as a fait accompli. They have made a pigs ear of this.

It is now the case that only a committee.is allowed to modify the constitution. The parliament can't do it but a committee can. What an unholy mess. Thailand democracy is like some still born abomination on the floor.

[h90]

No wonder Mark said he would not run for Pm or be party leader if his plan was accepted. He knew no one would accept such an unconstitutional plan like this. How can he even call himself a democrat. Shame on him.

yes get rid of vote buying is really evil...at least for some....

[h90]

Nothing original here. It just puts Suthep plan on paper.

It is a little like the 2007 referendum. If the people don't vote for the reforms, then what happens next?

So, it is not a democratic solution, but once again, something that will be delivered as a fait accompli. They have made a pigs ear of this.

It is now the case that only a committee.is allowed to modify the constitution. The parliament can't do it but a committee can. What an unholy mess. Thailand democracy is like some still born abomination on the floor.

2007 it was clear they would go with the 1997 constitution....

[rubl]

Nothing original here. It just puts Suthep plan on paper.

It is a little like the 2007 referendum. If the people don't vote for the reforms, then what happens next?

So, it is not a democratic solution, but once again, something that will be delivered as a fait accompli. They have made a pigs ear of this.

It is now the case that only a committee.is allowed to modify the constitution. The parliament can't do it but a committee can. What an unholy mess. Thailand democracy is like some still born abomination on the floor.

"Thailand democracy is like some still born abomination on the floor."

For many years already. Actually this is one of the reasons why demanding that the opposition or even the government behaves as if Thailand had a democracy as in some countries in the Western World is so inherently hilareous and sad as well.

[rreddin]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's acceptance make it legal?

For a while I really did think that Khun Abhisit had the best interests of all the country at heart. That was until he failed to give any details of his proposals and then started acting like a two-year old child having a tantrum. It is now clear that he has nothing to offer the electorate and was stringing the country along on Suthep's plans - and probably Suthep's instructions. This is a major loss of credibility for Abhisit and the Democratic Party that was self-inflicted.

Now, if I was a Demcrat Party (former) MP hoping to get re-elected, I would bail out now and join another party.That way, I would stand a chance of being elected and leaves me out of any action to disband the Democrat Party for failing to contest elctions. Staying with the Dems gurantees that I will not be elected and might not have a party to be a member of..

[xminator]

So we will boicot the election, and if you not agree we will boicot the elections...

Thailand need an election. And a majority government formed from that election.

There is no legal basis for a neutral government. And good luck finding anyone neutral. Until the traditionalist nationalists can accept that they are a minority in Thailand as of the last 20 years, I dont see any way out of this that does not end in political chaos. The Democrats "solution" is not one, its just a promise to block the july election and plunging Thailand into recession. If after half a year of owning the media spotlight bashing the PT government for various schemes and "corruption", they still can not win a national election, that says something about how far from mass appeal the democrats really is.