Final crackdown for border runners - New strict Immigration regulation in force from today

[wolf5370]

If you are so tired of seeing people older than you happy, but perhaps poorer than you think you are, then maybe its you who should leave - they are not worried about you, so it's your problem.

Ummm, I think you missed the first sentence where it said I was playing devil's advocate. I could personally care less, and no, I don't actually want to see retirement VISA regulations get stricter.

However, I do find it absolutely dispicable how many people in this thread are dancing for glee at the misfortunate of many. These new regulations don't affect me, but that's beside the point. If the shoe was on the other foot, and the retirement VISA got put up to 30mm THB, I bet all the people dancing for glee would instantly change to absolute silence and outrage. And don't think it can't or won't happen. Again, 800k THB is nothing compared to what other countries require.

You're not really comparing like for like. 800k doesn't get you residency, it gets you a 1-year extension on a non-imm visa. Hardly the same thing is it?

Can you show me a country that will give a foreigner (Retiree) PR for $23k ?, can you indicate a country that gives a legal retiree PR for "free" for that matter ?....most countries in the world that still even offer a place for retiree's do not offer PR to them as part of the deal. there may be one or two, if there is, it will not be many...

That is because they want different things. Countries in the first world do not want retirees, they cost money and give nothing back - thanks to the welfare state. With aging populations they want young families, preferably skilled, that will earn taxes and return their earnings to the system, to pay for that welfare. Thailand wants money and offers no welfare state and no direct entry in to either PR or residency either (a 1 year visa or extension is not residency - a change in visa rules and even after decades here - you are out). They cannot be compared in the like-for-like method you choose - if you compare wanted expats, then you should compare young skilled workers in the west with old wealthy unemployable retirees here - and you will doubtless find the young skilled people in the west, once through the hoops of getting the landing visa, find it much easier to stay and integrate (legally speaking rather than culturally).

[mikebike]

Maybe an ED visa would be suitable for her? Thai language course or Massage course, then when you open a business maybe you can get her a work permit?

Good luck.

This is starting to look like the only option left. It seems we had better act now, it didn't seem like a huge priority before but it seems we had better act now or possibly leave Thailand for another country or just spend a year apart. The thought of the latter makes me sick.

I'm not sure if I fully understand your issue. Maybe if clarified your problem disappears...

Question: were you planning on doing VISA RUNS or BORDER RUNS?

BORDER RUNS (holding a VISA EXEMPT entry and going to the nearest border vevery month and exiting and immediately re-entering on another VISA EXEMPT entry continuously for one year) are going to be a no-no.

VISA RUNS (obtaining a proper tourist visa for your fiancé in Vietnam, and returning to Vietnam when the visa expires and obtaining another tourist visa) is totally OK.

You may also be interested in the APEC Business Travel Card available to Vietnamese citizens if you are planning on running a (hotel) biz in Thailand.

Really no need to fret... do your due diligence and where there is a will, there is a way...

[theGadabout]

Maybe an ED visa would be suitable for her? Thai language course or Massage course, then when you open a business maybe you can get her a work permit?

Good luck.

This is starting to look like the only option left. It seems we had better act now, it didn't seem like a huge priority before but it seems we had better act now or possibly leave Thailand for another country or just spend a year apart. The thought of the latter makes me sick.

I'm not sure if I fully understand your issue. Maybe if clarified your problem disappears...

Question: were you planning on doing VISA RUNS or BORDER RUNS?

BORDER RUNS (holding a VISA EXEMPT entry and going to the nearest border vevery month and exiting and immediately re-entering on another VISA EXEMPT entry continuously for one year) are going to be a no-no.

VISA RUNS (obtaining a proper tourist visa for your fiancé in Vietnam, and returning to Vietnam when the visa expires and obtaining another tourist visa) is totally OK.

You may also be interested in the APEC Business Travel Card available to Vietnamese citizens if you are planning on running a (hotel) biz in Thailand.

Really no need to fret... do your due diligence and where there is a will, there is a way...

Border runs for 3 months, she was to return to Vietnam for 2 months while I went back to the USA. Then when we both returned, planned to figure it out after that. Ideally the hotel deal would have been finished and we could have used it for our visas too.

This board really is great already for us having been quite informative on what we need to do to remain legal. Admittedly we didn't spend a lot of time researching since we have been a bit transient until recently, and having expected that we could continue to to the border runs since we had done that last year for 3 months too.

Lesson learned though, our mistake for not being more vigilant. Luckily I have already been in contact with a few people and it looks like we are going to be able to get her an educational visa, although we will be paying 700 USD for the privilege. It's unfortunate timing.

[jollyman]

People here saying why was it implemented so fast. The fact is this has been a rumbling thing for some years.

Just wait if the YELLOW/sethups guys get into power, bye bye yo all.

[Durianwriter]

I am a tourist. We are in Dawei Myanmar and had planned to cross over into Kanchanaburi and continue to travel from there. I am wondering if we are going to be able to make the crossing to Kanchanaburi or if we have to go all the way back to Yangon and fly in. If we cross overland, do we now just get 15 days?

I really wish the Thai government had given some notice beforehand so that we could have adjusted our travel plans.

[el jefe]

I am a tourist. We are in Dawei Myanmar and had planned to cross over into Kanchanaburi and continue to travel from there. I am wondering if we are going to be able to make the crossing to Kanchanaburi or if we have to go all the way back to Yangon and fly in. If we cross overland, do we now just get 15 days?

I really wish the Thai government had given some notice beforehand so that we could have adjusted our travel plans.

Depends on your nationality.

G7 countries get 30days.

[mikebike]

I am a tourist. We are in Dawei Myanmar and had planned to cross over into Kanchanaburi and continue to travel from there. I am wondering if we are going to be able to make the crossing to Kanchanaburi or if we have to go all the way back to Yangon and fly in. If we cross overland, do we now just get 15 days?

I really wish the Thai government had given some notice beforehand so that we could have adjusted our travel plans.

Nothing has changed for legitimate tourists - if you qualify for Visa Exempt entry (15 or 30 days depending on your country of origin) just come on over and enjoy your stay. If you wish to enjoy more than the time allowed by visa exempt entry, just go out to a neighbouring country and return with a tourist visa.

[965purity]

The current state of play at the Aranyaprathet/Poipet border per Tanya, owner of Bangkok Buddy Travel Services:

May 12, 2014 Update:

Korea passport holders may no longer make a visa run by land transportation. We will update if this immigration regulation changes.

Russia passport holders may no longer make a visa run by land border crossing at Aranya Prethet/Poi Pet. We will update if this immigration regulation changes.

Philippines passport holders may no longer make a visa run by land border crossing at Aranya Prethet/Poi Pet. We will update if this immigration regulation changes.

Brazil passport holders have strict land border crossing restrictions. Land crossing is allowed if the previous Thailand entry was via air and then a land border crossing will be allowed once within 3 months. We will update if this immigration

source - http://bestbangkokvisarun.com/news-and-updates/

Note that while included here, the specification for Koreans is not new; this has been in force for several months.

[mikebike]

I feel there need to reiterate that the real problem with all this visa entries and exits is that any and all information regarding interpretation and enforcement is so utterly poorly communicated. Anyone entering Thailand, for any purpose, is best to just follow the official rules and regs clearly posted here on the official Ministry of Foreign Affairs website. It would seem prudent, until everything shakes out, to assume that these will be enforced and to mind them regardless of what one has experienced in the past or what is being discussed on forums or around the beer cooler!!

[thykeeper]

Has anyone here actually read the Thai posted? I got freaked out last yesterday and didn't really read it over completely but after I have I think the forum here is interjecting tons of extra information that does not exist in the announcement.

I don't know if even the moderators have read this well since they have told me specially about a single 30 day entry stamp referencing specific information without a valid source. I afraid the moderators who posted this may be fear mongering or not doing their research well enough.

The document does NOT say:

1) The document does NOT say you are limited to one entry of 30 days nor does it mention amounts of entires or days of each entry (these being entry stamps without visas).

2) The document does NOT contain ANY hard numbers. If anyone here is giving you hard numbers like 1 entry and 30 days they got this from a source which is NOT the official government announcement.

3) The document does NOT mention any new laws (these are simply guidelines).

4) The document does NOT mention specific kinds of visas.

5) The document does NOT mention specific kinds of travel like land crossing or airports.

6) The document does NOT mention "all nationalities" and in fact singles out "Korea etc...". I called the offices in BKK and they say it does apply to all nationalities but that information is NOT the official document.

The document DOES say:

1) From the starting date (the 8th I think) to the 15th of August they will start to write "O-I" (out-in) in your passport if they suspect your entry is not tourism related and then they will advise you to secure an actual visa (the entry stamp is implied here to be a problem but NOT limited to) the "correct" way.

2) After the 15th at the discretion of the officer they will decide if the person is doing a visa-run which is non-tourism related and if thought to be so they are instructed to refuse entry to that person.

So to conclude:

1) The focus here is clearly to limit "visa runs" of the "out - in" nature.

2) This appears to imply entry stamps only by suggesting to acquire a proper visa but abusing the tourist visa system is also a form of visa run. Living on visas from Lao for 2 years suggests your intention is not tourism and they specifically target this.

3) It is in fact very possible that if an official sees a person making multiple border runs without a visa they can on their discretion allow this person to pass if they feel they are a valid tourist. Nowhere in the document does it give clear details that people doing X number of X category entries are refused. This is ALL left to personal discretion of human beings on the ground.

4) The document does NOT suggest to start turning people away BEFORE August 15th. If this happened to you if was the confusion of the people on the ground getting bad information or commands from their superior. I was able to pass with a 30 day entry stamp in Mae Sai on the 11th and after asking was told I can do this 4 more times (my tourist visa expired on May 13th).

Please add to this list of actual information from the actual source if you want to help reduce the confusion here!

[mikebike]

Has anyone here actually read the Thai posted? I got freaked out last yesterday and didn't really read it over completely but after I have I think the forum here is interjecting tons of extra information that does not exist in the announcement.

I don't know if even the moderators have read this well since they have told me specially about a single 30 day entry stamp referencing specific information without a valid source. I afraid the moderators who posted this may be fear mongering or not doing their research well enough.

The document does NOT say:

1) The document does NOT say you are limited to one entry of 30 days nor does it mention amounts of entires or days of each entry (these being entry stamps without visas).

2) The document does NOT contain ANY hard numbers. If anyone here is giving you hard numbers like 1 entry and 30 days they got this from a source which is NOT the official government announcement.

3) The document does NOT mention any new laws (these are simply guidelines).

4) The document does NOT mention specific kinds of visas.

5) The document does NOT mention specific kinds of travel like land crossing or airports.

6) The document does NOT mention "all nationalities" and in fact singles out "Korea etc...". I called the offices in BKK and they say it does apply to all nationalities but that information is NOT the official document.

The document DOES say:

1) From the starting date (the 8th I think) to the 15th of August they will start to write "O-I" (out-in) in your passport if they suspect your entry is not tourism related and then they will advise you to secure an actual visa (the entry stamp is implied here to be a problem but NOT limited to) the "correct" way.

2) After the 15th at the discretion of the officer they will decide if the person is doing a visa-run which is non-tourism related and if thought to be so they are instructed to refuse entry to that person.

So to conclude:

1) The focus here is clearly to limit "visa runs" of the "out - in" nature.

2) This appears to imply entry stamps only by suggesting to acquire a proper visa but abusing the tourist visa system is also a form of visa run. Living on visas from Lao for 2 years suggests your intention is not tourism and they specifically target this.

3) It is in fact very possible that if an official sees a person making multiple border runs without a visa they can on their discretion allow this person to pass if they feel they are a valid tourist. Nowhere in the document does it give clear details that people doing X number of X category entries are refused. This is ALL left to personal discretion of human beings on the ground.

4) The document does NOT suggest to start turning people away BEFORE August 15th. If this happened to you if was the confusion of the people on the ground getting bad information or commands from their superior. I was able to pass with a 30 day entry stamp in Mae Sai on the 11th and after asking was told I can do this 4 more times (my tourist visa expired on May 13th).

Please add to this list of actual information from the actual source if you want to help reduce the confusion here!

I think this is an excellent summary!!

[ubonjoe]

...and what about the policy of only 2 tourist visas in your passport? We retired, under 50 pensioners go back West?

There no such rule. How could there be such a rule. Most passport are valid for ten years.

Some embassies or consulates might limit the number you can have from them back to back.

You can always go further than just the nearby locations. Bali will do a 3 entry tourist visa but you will need ot have tickets out for each entry (90 days apart is ok).

[Tomtomtom69]

I am a tourist. We are in Dawei Myanmar and had planned to cross over into Kanchanaburi and continue to travel from there. I am wondering if we are going to be able to make the crossing to Kanchanaburi or if we have to go all the way back to Yangon and fly in. If we cross overland, do we now just get 15 days?

I really wish the Thai government had given some notice beforehand so that we could have adjusted our travel plans.

You could have also obtained a Thai visa at the embassy in Yangon and entered overland on that. No need to fly. But unless you don't mind backtracking, it's 15 or 30 days once you return, maybe that's sufficient in your case.

[Tomtomtom69]

Made an account just for this. This is a particularly big problem for my Vietnamese fiance and I, from the USA. I can get a 1 year visa but we were planning on doing visa runs when she wasn't traveling back to Vietnam. We just got a home in Thailand because it was the easiest for both of us to have visas here before we get married. Now we don't know if we should stay here or if we need to find another country or go back to our home countries until we get married in a year or so.

I am not sure what we are going to do or how this will play out but I hope we can both get visa's here. We will find out Thursday if and how this affects us and we will report back.

I don't know but the Mods will know and will no doubt be along shortly to advise.

Good luck BTW

Thank you. We are hoping for the best. We just spent 50,000THB on this place. If we can't stay here now it's likely we'll be forced to either Indonesia, Cambodia or Malaysia. We can both get visa's relatively easily there, but it's really quite terrible timing for us since we just paid all of this money for a place, we had planned on buying a hotel here and already have all the bank documents completed. Now we don't know if we can invest here or not for our future. This might be a minor inconvenience for some, but really is a life altering decision for us. My friend woke me up today and told me to read this thread and I instantly got sick. Like I said, we will report back.

Hope everything goes well for you - however, I'm curious as to why you didn't choose to open a business in Vietnam, if your fiance is originally from there? Would be a lot easier culturally and language wise, not to mention residency wise too, not just for her but even for you.

[craigt3365]

A post with a link to the Bangkok Post has been removed from view. We are not allowed to have links to their site. Apologies.

If you want to see the article, just Google:

Thai immigration clamps down on visa runs

[jennyt008]

I just thought I would post a song which aptly describes the situation many of us will find ourselves in very soon. Hopefully it will bring a smile before the inevitable tears which are sure to follow....And don't forget...to buy that "One Way Ticket" ...Cheers

[astral]

Ridiculous and unworkable. So if in Phuket I cannot then do a day trip to Singapore for banking or shopping?

You can get a re-entry permit for such a trip

They are available for all visa types.

[paz]

Ridiculous and unworkable. So if in Phuket I cannot then do a day trip to Singapore for banking or shopping?

You can get a re-entry permit for such a trip

They are available for all visa types.

Allow me to specify: can buy a re-entry permit, for the privilege.

[Pralaad]

Ridiculous and unworkable. So if in Phuket I cannot then do a day trip to Singapore for banking or shopping?

You can get a re-entry permit for such a trip

They are available for all visa types.

Allow me to specify: can buy a re-entry permit, for the privilege.

BUY? its called a fee, Immigration is not a charity service,

But welcome to skip it and just obtain a new visa for 10 times that

[paz]

Ridiculous and unworkable. So if in Phuket I cannot then do a day trip to Singapore for banking or shopping?

You can get a re-entry permit for such a trip

They are available for all visa types.

Allow me to specify: can buy a re-entry permit, for the privilege.

BUY? its called a fee, Immigration is not a charity service,

But welcome to skip it and just obtain a new visa for 10 times that

Still buzzing around ?

Yes, one buys visas, permits and all that in Thailand. How come a cynical person like you can't call things with their name I wonder.

Oops forgot to add you to ignore list. Doing it now.

[djhotsox]

...and what about the policy of only 2 tourist visas in your passport? We retired, under 50 pensioners go back West?

Get a new passport.....

[tropo]

Well, it's a good suggestion, especially for people who are living on border runs. Walen didn't make this new rule, they are just informing people there is an alternative, one that would let them learn Thai and in the long run probably save them money. It's a very long thread and no one is going to read through every post, so the occasional update seems very reasonable to me.

I think most negatives were towards rumour-spreading with no factual basis (50-55) btw...

To me it comes across as unsolicited advertising (again, fully understanding that he is paying the site admin for this privilege). Why not start a searchable thread expounding the virtues of the school, its curriculum, and its potential visa benefits? Those curious, or in need of these services would be targeted, rather than randomly cold-calling posters in quasi-relevant threads.

What's wrong with a bit of useful promotion? It's a win-win situation and I suppose you don't know he's a sponsor on here. At the end of the day, this forum is a business. If it wasn't making money it wouldn't be here offering the public a valuable source of information... and to make money it requires sponsors.,

Get off his back - he has a very good school and a lot of people who read this would be unaware of the option of an education visa. The fact that he's here right at the start of this news shows he's on the ball.,

[tropo]

...and what about the policy of only 2 tourist visas in your passport? We retired, under 50 pensioners go back West?

Get a new passport.....

IMO getting new passports is just too desperate. Surely there's a good chance your previous visas will be recorded on the immigration data base?

I had to get a new one for my wife once, which proved very useful, but I only did it because I accidentally put it in the washing machine, and it didn't come out all that clean.

A new Australian passport is easy to get - it just costs more each time you lose it, until they start asking lots of questions when it starts to look suspicious - maybe your 3rd time. They have a price list up on the wall at the consulate. I certainly wouldn't want to go through all the trouble of getting new Philippine passport though - that's a real hassle and takes at least a month.

Edited May 13, 2014 by tropo

[Soutpeel]

IMO getting new passports is just too desperate. Surely there's a good chance your previous visas will be recorded on the immigration data base?

Yeap they will be, lest not forget they also have a photo of your smiling face as well, a new pp not really going to help...all they need is your name, DOB and your photo and can see very quickly who you "are"

Edited May 14, 2014 by Soutpeel

[mikebike]

I think most negatives were towards rumour-spreading with no factual basis (50-55) btw...

To me it comes across as unsolicited advertising (again, fully understanding that he is paying the site admin for this privilege). Why not start a searchable thread expounding the virtues of the school, its curriculum, and its potential visa benefits? Those curious, or in need of these services would be targeted, rather than randomly cold-calling posters in quasi-relevant threads.

What's wrong with a bit of useful promotion? It's a win-win situation and I suppose you don't know he's a sponsor on here. At the end of the day, this forum is a business. If it wasn't making money it wouldn't be here offering the public a valuable source of information... and to make money it requires sponsors.,

Get off his back - he has a very good school and a lot of people who read this would be unaware of the option of an education visa. The fact that he's here right at the start of this news shows he's on the ball.,

Huh? My post was not in any way 'getting on his back' and as I stated in my post which you quoted, I know quite well that he is a sponsor. Weird.

[bangers101]

I read in the Bangkok Post this week that, due to the massive decline in tourists, TOT and other agencies are going to require hundreds of millions of baht to start a new 'Visit Thailand Campaign'...

Introducing a clamp down of non-status visitors might be a good thing but the timing of it looks....well....daft!

it looks like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and these are the kind of problems you get when you don't have a functioning government.

[Soutpeel]

I read in the Bangkok Post this week that, due to the massive decline in tourists, TOT and other agencies are going to require hundreds of millions of baht to start a new 'Visit Thailand Campaign'...

Introducing a clamp down of non-status visitors might be a good thing but the timing of it looks....well....daft!

it looks like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and these are the kind of problems you get when you don't have a functioning government.

but in practical terms, this "crack down" will not affect the vast majority of legitimate tourist's, the ones that this really affects are those actually living in Thailand full time without a proper visa and claiming to be a tourist, which they are not.

If you read what they are upto, if you can prove to immigration you are legitimate tourist, eg hotel bookings, air tickets, itineraries etc, you will not have a problem...

[Tomtomtom69]

...and what about the policy of only 2 tourist visas in your passport? We retired, under 50 pensioners go back West?

Get a new passport.....

IMO getting new passports is just too desperate. Surely there's a good chance your previous visas will be recorded on the immigration data base?

I had to get a new one for my wife once, which proved very useful, but I only did it because I accidentally put it in the washing machine, and it didn't come out all that clean.

A new Australian passport is easy to get - it just costs more each time you lose it, until they start asking lots of questions when it starts to look suspicious - maybe your 3rd time. They have a price list up on the wall at the consulate. I certainly wouldn't want to go through all the trouble of getting new Philippine passport though - that's a real hassle and takes at least a month.

If you are a dual citizen it's so easy. You just do a passport swap and re-enter Thailand using a different passport. It also makes applying for visas easy - never use the same passport too many times. Consultates and embassies, at least Thai ones do NOT have a database that tells them whether visas have been applied for in other locations or using different passports. They rely on the old-fashioned flip through of your passport instead. So if you apply with another passport (as a dual national) it might appear that you haven't applied for any visas at all. In any case, there is no 2 tourist visa in passport rule. It's more likely that a specific embassy/consulate will hesitate to keep on issuing new tourist visas if you have already got 2 or 3 in a row (particularly 2 entry ones).

I would not advocate "losing" your passport deliberately though. It's too much effort required to get it replaced, costs extra, attracts more questions from embassy officials and to get your immigration status fixed up (i.e. getting a police report done, and going to immigration to replace your stamps etc.) As a dual national I never replace the passport I am traveling on in the same country, unless it's my home country. If I enter say Thailand on passport A, I replace passport B in Thailand (assuming it's come time for renewal). If passport A also requires renewing, I fly to Vietnam and enter Vietnam with passport B and replace passport A there. That way there is no messing around with immigration, which saves time, money and hassle. I did that before in 2012. However, I didn't travel anywhere specifically for the purposes of renewing my passports either - it just so happened that I was in Vietnam where I was working so I replaced one passport first there and a few months later when I flew to Thailand during my time off the time came to replace another passport so I did a switch and replaced that one in Bangkok.

Unfortunately someone with only one nationality doesn't have that advantage and will be forced to replace their passport wherever they are, should it become full or close to expiry.

[Mario2008]

Already immigration does notice people using two passports with the help of their database, now it will be even easier to spot. They will be introducing finger printing at borders.

[theGadabout]

Quick update, we will be going on our 3rd and final border run tomorrow morning at 6AM. We have spoken with the border folks we have worked with the past 3 years and they have assured us it's "business as usual" for the Pattaya -> Cambodia run. We will be the guinea pigs for this. If this doesn't work out for us we plan on heading off to Siem Reap to stay with some friends for a week or 2 then flying back in to avoid this hassle, then doing the 1 year ED visa for my fiancee, and the 1 year visa for myself as a US citizen. I will certainly report back as soon as I'm either back in Thailand around 1 Thai time or if we are excluded. Stay tuned.